Dir en grey

[EzraEroguro 174]

I'm being 100% real when I posit this question. I love this band. I really do. So please understand I'm coming from a place of love when I ask.

 

So, I've been listening to VESTIGE OF SCRATCHES, and I can't understand why any one of us would like any of this old Dir en grey shit. It's. Awful. What compelled you all to like this band? 

 

For me, it was after my mom bought me a copy of Withering to death. after I was sick for like...2 weeks.

 

Tl;Dr - old DEG is a mess, what got you into  them? 

 

[The Moon 989]

 

 

[nekkichi 6043]

2 hours ago, EzraEroguro said:

For me, it was after my mom bought me a copy of Withering to death. after I was sick for like...2 weeks.

personal question: is she one of those "eat pray love"/"manifest your life into existence" people? asking for ~science.

[Nowhere Girl 189]

6 hours ago, EzraEroguro said:

I'm being 100% real when I posit this question. I love this band. I really do. So please understand I'm coming from a place of love when I ask.

 

So, I've been listening to VESTIGE OF SCRATCHES, and I can't understand why any one of us would like any of this old Dir en grey shit. It's. Awful. What compelled you all to like this band? 

 

For me, it was after my mom bought me a copy of Withering to death. after I was sick for like...2 weeks.

 

Tl;Dr - old DEG is a mess, what got you into  them? 

 

 

But I agree that OLD old DEG (2 or 3 songs off GAUZE, all of MISSA, and earlier) is a bit janky. Please don't kill me.

 

How 'old' are we talking here? Because imo, almost everything from MACABRE on is great.

 

Edit: I got into DEG because of ain't afraid to die, which is fairly ancient at this point. If that song is considered "awful", then I don't even know what to say.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Nowhere Girl

[Tokage 5930]

everything released before dum spiro spero is pretty much unlistenable

[Seelentau 884]

Do I have to write two triggered paragraphs now about why y'all opinions are shit and old DEG is best DEG?

 

When I first got into them, I think it was sometime between UROBOROS and DUM SPIRO SPERO. At that time, I was the typical young core boy, listened to all post-hardcore/metalcore bands you can think of. But I also was interested in manga and anime. So DEG kinda fit both of those interests, Japanese stuff and metal stuff. At that time, I absolutely couldn't listen to anything pre-Wtd., I hated Kisou even. But nowadays, my tasts are more refined and in turn, I can't stand the bland metal fest that is TMOAB, and I rarely listen to UROBOROS and DSS. Now, I listen to old DEG more, but I still love ARCHE the most.

[Yuri 30]

8 hours ago, EzraEroguro said:

Tl;Dr - old DEG is a mess, what got you into  them? 

Half memories, half their... original style. Personally I really like their brutality, Kyo's screams. It just appeals to me the most. I heard a lot of opinions that DEG is so 2010. And their "old times" were the most iconic, they got every popular because of old albums.
 

3 hours ago, Tokage said:

everything released before dum spiro spero is pretty much unlistenable

I don't agree, what's wrong with Withering to dot or Uroboros? Okay, english version of Glass Skin is awful, but come on, remastered Uroboros is one of their the best albums. The same with The Marrow of a Bone (except REALLY poor quality of that album). Dum Spiro Spero is just weird, I like maybe 3 songs of it.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Yuri

[Nowhere Girl 189]

3 hours ago, Tokage said:

everything released before dum spiro spero is pretty much unlistenable

This utterly confounds me. However, I can respect your opinion.

 

I was under the impression that the vast majority of fans felt that their early work was their best.

 

Personally, I enjoy each album for different reasons. Part of the appeal of this band is how they've evolved so much over their years. Their sound pallet is varied to the extent that they can throw a song like Namamekashiki ansoku... in the middle of the angriest album they've made to date, and it still makes sense.

[Saishu 1589]

To be honest, for most of the time spent loving this band, I’ve never understood the praise for Gauze. Now, mind you, I got into DEG when Vulgar was the newest album. I went backwards from there and everything still sort of made sense. So naturally I got super excited about Withering to death and preordered it and everything. What I got, to my American ears that were new to jrock, was a bunch of dudes that didn’t know how to play metal. I hated it, and to this day it’s still my least played DEG album. I went thru my own little revolt and would only listen to the first three albums for a while. 

 

But Gauze. Gauze is held in this lofty position of being some great cornerstone of VK. Why? Once you dig deeper into VK you realize that tons of bands were already doing what DEG had done on Gauze. What makes it so special compared to anything Luna Sea and Kuroyume did? There are people that say Gauze is their best album. Are they serious? Is this coming from Yoshiki fans? 

 

I dont get it. 

[mopkins 42]

Gauze was the first DEG album I heard, but Macabre was the first one I actually liked

 

Missa is a historical curiosity and nothing more

[Nowhere Girl 189]

There is no one way to play a particular genre. Labels only exist as guidelines.

 

DEG's early material wears its influences on its sleeve. They clearly wanted to be just like their heroes. Perhaps the inspiration is a bit too overt in some cases. They very quickly moved on from this phase, but it still shows.

[suji 8317]

everything after gauze is Just. Awful.

 

🌸🌺coming from a place of love guys~🌸🌺

[Saishu 1589]

54 minutes ago, mopkins said:

Gauze was the first DEG album I heard, but Macabre was the first one I actually liked

 

Missa is a historical curiosity and nothing more

Missa is a Garden single with some other shit on it. 

 

Kiri to Mayu is the standout track for me though. 

[geist 227]

Even though I enjoy old Dir en grey, allow me to put it this way: when I want to introduce people to Dir en grey, I show them newer material from 2006 and on and avoid all of the old stuff because there is very little resemblance between the two and can lead people to think these are two entirely separate bands. 

 

One friend once asked me if there were two Dir en grey bands, I said no, why would he think that? Because he did a Google search and saw pictures of them from the old VK days and thought they were a girl band. 

 

I dont necessarily dislike old Dir en grey, but as the times change it feels increasingly outdated even though I still enjoy it largely for nostalgia reasons. 

[Saishu 1589]

12 minutes ago, geist said:

 

 

One friend once asked me if there were two Dir en grey bands, I said no, why would he think that? Because he did a Google search and saw pictures of them from the old VK days and thought they were a girl band. 

There’s Dir en grey and DIR EN GREY. 

[Mamo 1172]

25 minutes ago, Saishu said:

There’s Dir en grey and DIR EN GREY. 

Lol that's how I always differentiate.

[Ro plz 1290]

I find a good bunch of the old stuff that’s not MISSA, or GAUZE , very unlistenable. I hate Kisou also. There’s some of the songs that have aged well and sound awesome if you watch the MODE of DVDs. 

 

But I love the progression from WTD to ARCHE. They satisfy my metal needs in their own special ways. But lately I’ve been bumping ARCHE over And over. 

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

4 hours ago, suji said:

everything after gauze is Just. Awful.

 

🌸🌺coming from a place of love guys~🌸🌺

same, except not from so love fuck this band

[Seelentau 884]

what

 

GAUZE LP for sale lul https://www.discogs.com/sell/item/626826665?ev=bp_det

Edited February 11, 2018 by Seelentau

[Zeus 7997]

ORZ has been cooking up a topic that a good bunch of you would find very interesting but it is not ready yet.

 

Visual en grey had a lot of good moments, but their early albums also have a lot of weak moments. MACABRE is the most consistent of the visual trifecta and has the least amount of filler, which is why a lot of fans hold that album up in particular as a favorite. GAUZE has the biggest collection of listenable tracks, with a side of help from YOSHIKI when he was still relevant, but it also has it's fair share of tracks that I wouldn't listen to more than once. "MASK", "Mazohyst", and the "Mode of.." tracks are examples of things that drag out the experience and add nothing. Kisou ... should have been an EP. I can go on and on about just how bad that album is, starting with the inconsistent track list, the recycled B-sides, literally filler instrumentals, and too much of an effort to be vulgar and provocative, but I won't. Even then, that had its good moments. But regardless, what it comes down to for me is that I prefer to listen to certain tracks over going through an album from start to finish, and this holds up for a lot more of their albums than I would care to admit. I liked Vestige of Scratches precisely because they cut out a ton of their filler tracks and distilled all of the things I liked about Visual en grey into 80 minutes.

 

Dark en grey suffers from its own unique set of problems. For as much as the fans shat on six Ugly when it came out, it's the most consistent release they've had with zero filler tracks IMO. VULGAR was playing it safe, trying to show their visual fans that the sound may change but the core of the band is still intact, but in exchange there aren't a lot of stand out moments. Nothing good, nothing too unlistenable, nothing really memorable not named OBSCURE. And "Child prey" is a lazy single. Withering to death. sounds like a rebellious teenager proving that they can be metvl with the rest of the older Western sempai bands that shamed them for their interpretation of alt-metal on their previous albums. It starts strong and ends strong, but the entire middle of that album is the most forgettable Dark en grey experience ever released. TMOAB is even more of the rebellious phase, going all in on the metalcore, and it's okay, but it still feels like the band was trying too  hard to not be visual when the only people they were really trying to convince were themselves. UROBOROS feels like the band discovered Tool & prog metal & could begin embracing their roots again without having to look effeminate and go all in on the leather straps and thigh high boots like they used to. It's no surprise that this is the period when they begin re-recording their old tracks again. DSS just feels like they went too hard in the prog metal direction, biting off more than they could chew and ultimately crumbling under the weight of their own ambitions. Both of these albums has pretty questionable mixing decisions, and UROBOROS was exposed with that R&E version which pushed all the flaws to the center and sounded even worse. DSS had that farting bass which was a cool experiment but became really annoying by the end of the album, and it really lacked ballads to break up the pace, which is funny because Dir en grey at their visual days were best at ballads and failed at almost anything else. ARCHE is them trying to find a happy medium for themselves, but in the process didn't create an album with any engaging moments, just like VULGAR.

 

Ultimately, I feel that the band's albums would be much better received if they axed the four weakest tracks off each album.

[Nowhere Girl 189]

There's been a lot of negativity in this thread recently (not sure if troll or not). Just throwing my hat in the ring with some positive (but hopefully fair) mini-reviews. You do not have to agree with my opinion.

 

GAUZE: Slightly awkward in places. Much of this is generic for a VK band. Unlike almost anything later, this is basically a true Visual Kei album, with strong pop hooks, light, bouncy instrumentals, and some exceptions. Mazohyst is the first sign that the band want to go conceptual, epic, and darker than their peers. The Mode of... tracks do little more than just exist, possibly a throwback to La:Sadie's or perhaps Malice Mizer. I find Schwein no Isu and MASK very forgettable. ZAN is gigantic; the remake doesn't stand up to Kyo's insanity in the original version, yet it makes up for it by being br00tal (or something). Also, the video for Yokan is fucking hot.

Fav track: アクロの丘

 

MACABRE: This album is the seed of what is to come. It's almost a proto-UROBOROS in its concept, yet maintains the playful pop of GAUZE enough that it isn't totally bleak. You can tell that they wanted this album to be truly epic, but their immaturity as a band means that it doesn't quite hit that mark. It's still great, though. The only song I'd lose here is audrey (too predictable/tedious). 

Fav track: egnirys cimredopyh +) an injection

 

ain't afraid to die: Just this one song alone is better than many albums out there. Glorious.

 

Kisou: I guess some people love this and some loathe it. For me, it's the former. This is the first time we see DEG try something totally new. It's like Experimental Industrial Electronic Punk; really raw and in your face. The amount of sonic variety means that there should be something here for everyone. The interludes are cool, although I can see why maybe they're disliked. I'd say that this album is almost perfect, with only The Domestic Fucker Family being weirdly out of place. Oh, and PINK KILLER is amazing. 

Fav track: 鴉-karasu-

 

six Ugly: Strangely, there are two remakes here, with Children being only 2 years old at the time. However, everything here is good. Excellent, in fact. It'd be cool to see Hades back in the live show. 

Fav track: HADES

 

VULGAR: OBSCURE is enormous. That's not to say that this is the only reason to listen to the album. When this first came out, I was a little disappointed, as every track sounded more or less the same (just guitars, barely any electronics unlike Kisou). It quickly grew on me, though. There's very little to dislike here (at a stretch, maybe Sajou no Uta is a tad forgettable). At this point, there's almost none of the old DEG sound left.

Fav track:  NEW AGE CULTURE

 

Withering to death.: I was so not excited when this was announced and I have no idea why. I dithered on the purchase until I heard a clip of 愛しさは腐敗につき, and then instabought it just for that song. Wow, this thing is great. Some people criticise the production (it sounds too clean?), although it seems fine to me. This is a return to a more playful aesthetic for the band that I still really wish they'd touch back on. Aside from the rather blah Jesus Christ R 'n R, this album is solid. dead tree to the end is basically perfect. Yes, even Beautiful Dirt. Yes, even GARBAGE. Love this thing.

Fav track: Spilled Milk

 

THE MARROW OF A BONE: Weird Engrishy titles, weird Engrishy lyrics, Kyo's voice steadily getting worse with each successive live, and the band just suddenly went very dark and angry. This album turned a lot of people away from the band. I listened once and almost threw away the CD. Didn't listen to the band for months. Then I gave it a second try, and it made sense. I spent an entire Summer listening to nothing but this while painting. It was truly something else. Yes, it's messy, ugly, and raw as fuck, but that was the point. It's grotesque and Kyo sounds like a cat in a blender. But alongside all this rage, we have moments of utter spellbinding beauty, too; songs that are some of the highlights of DEG's entire career up until this point. Just fantastic. My only complaint might be that some of it feels a little undercooked. A little repetitive, perhaps. But it feels honest and true in its message.

Fav track: 艶かしき安息、躊躇いに微笑み

 

UROBOROS: Hoo, boy. This one. This is the album that MACABRE wanted to be, but wasn't. It's also possibly the most complicated album in terms of song structure and writing techniques. This thing is an absolute beast; a monster. In my opinion, this may be the band's finest moment. Every track here has a reason to exist. It's marvellous. Possibly my favourite album next to Kisou.

The initial release was plagued by slightly dodgy mixing (didn't notice how bad it was at the time). Another big problem with the original version was the inclusion of the atrocious English versions of Glass Skin and DOZING GREEN. The remaster fixes these things, but also adds in the remake HYDRA 666 for absolutely no reason. It doesn't really fit and already had its place on the single. 

Fav track: VINUSHKA

 

DUM SPIRO SPERO: Thought UROBOROS was complex? Think again! Here, the band decided to cram as many ideas as they possibly could into each song, resulting in some completely bizarre Frankenstein's monster of an LP. This is the sort of album that you could probably hear something different in every time you listened. In the studio, it works very, very well, but live, the album falls short, with the band's meagre 5-piece unable to fully re-create the enormous sound they created with computer magic. This album is good, but it's also quite bleak, dreary, and at times a little tedious. It tries to push the UROBOROS idea too hard and goes a bit off the deep end, for better or for worse. This was also the time where the band's output became glacial. Hageshisa to... was released two years prior to this, and I was already bored of it when the album finally came out (and the mixing was terrible). Also, side note: the 'symphonic' versions are absolutely rubbish. They should have hired an orchestra or some actual performers to play with them (not necessarily on stage). Also, second side-note: this is the beginning of the polarising 'Kyopera'.

Fav track:  「欲巣にDREAMBOX」あるいは成熟の理念と冷たい雨

 

ARCHE: On the surface, this is a return to the band's old sound... sort of. It's like looking through a gloomy telescope at that old material and reminiscing on it. I'd say this is more mature, more measured. Less spontaneous. It's really very good. I have absolutely no complaints here.

Fav track: 濤声

 

TL;DR: I am a Dir en grey fan and I like the band's music. So there.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Nowhere Girl

[Manji 卍 743]

Dum spiro spero is a damn good album,but the funny thing is that  i could never stop to listen the entire album like other albums from their discography.it feels like the songs works listening separatly,from time to time,cuz it seems to get lost in it's own haze when you try to grap the whole album,just like ARCHE,imo...I really hope that the next album be something more fun to listen,like six ugly.i like the atmosphere of the three latest re records,and i'd be fine if the new album have the same guitar tone.also,hope that Utafumi get a "album version'' more improved ,

if they include this track

Edited February 11, 2018 by Manji 卍

[geist 227]

On 2/10/2018 at 2:13 PM, Ro plz said:

But I love the progression from WTD to ARCHE. They satisfy my metal needs in their own special ways. But lately I’ve been bumping ARCHE over And over. 

Same. I was deeply critical of this album and was for years. I guess I still am in some ways (Die's section in the intro of Midwife is still god awful); but after revisiting their discog, I have been able to enjoy it way more.

 

For me the highlights are: Un Deux, Uroko, Tosei, Rinkaku, Magayasou, The Inferno, and Revelation of Mankind. Hell, maybe this is just an extension of Stockholm Syndrome having listened to this album so many times over the past couple of weeks, but I don't hate Sustain the Untruth anymore either. I'm not much of a fan because it very much feels like "Pop Metal" to me along with Chain Repulsion -- quick, straight-forward songs with catchy hooks -- but I also don't think it's as bad as I initially felt.

Edited February 12, 2018 by geist
a word

[Saishu 1589]

Midwife is pretty bad. It bothers me a LOT when they throw those weird, skronky, almost atonal riffs in the heavier material. It just makes everything sound goofy. It happens in Bugaboo and practically everything in Withering to death. 

[geist 227]

13 minutes ago, Saishu said:

Midwife is pretty bad. It bothers me a LOT when they throw those weird, skronky, almost atonal riffs in the heavier material. It just makes everything sound goofy. It happens in Bugaboo and practically everything in Withering to death. 

I can understand wanting to fit another guitar part in there to stand out; but please make it more tasteful than THAT!