Dir en grey

[Ro plz 1290]

Its no surprise that I really am not a big fan of ARCHE. Its easily one of the most forgettable albums as a whole. But based on what i peeped of the perfect edition Budokan live that came out as well as the Bonus CD that was upped recently, I can say that the album did its job. The job being able to have the songs translated well in a live setting. I had theories on how who should've been playing what in regards to Guitars but the way it was done in the end was quite pleasant, especially MIDWIFE, and BEHIND A VACANT IMAGE. UROKO live has grown on me. Lots of grit there, so much so that i could give them a pass for the solo bit.  Also I didn't think it was possible for RINKAKU to become even more of a masterpiece but i enjoyed the touch up on the piano and the intro (can i thank Takumi for this? @Carmelzors) .

 

I also enjoy how there was more life during this budokan, like the band was one and seemed to really be engaged in playing these songs to the best of their ability. This was something that was not present during the last budokan show. The mixing is a lot better this time around as well (thank God).  Lastly, I am really appreciative that, unless you went to see them during their last overseas tour, this is mainly our "first time" (unless you count the MTV special where they played Tousei and Maga-whatever the hell you call it),  that we are experiencing these songs live. One of the many reasons why DSS budokan was such a chore was because we legit had a crapton of DVD's prior where they played much of that those setlists (minus the oldies) already. A breath of fresh air. 

[emmny 4139]

from someone who went to the arche lives, everything they played went really well, except for uroko but that was because it felt a bit messy without the backing track. revelation of mankind was surprisingly well done too, considering that and uroko are the closest linked to DSS-era style out of the arche tracks.

arche's purpose was a back-to-basics contrast from DSS, as others have remarked and i 100% see why it translates so well.

+1 on utafumi being faster, i expected decaying crow/zan insanity. BOOOOOOOOO

[orange~ 387]

@AtreidesThe Marrow of a Bone is my favourite. It's the next album after Withering to Death and continues with certain things you can already hear on that album. TMOAB is not liked by that many tho.. Maybe because it's pretty heavy album with lots of growling and the songs are simpler in structure, but going by your music taste (as far as I know), you might end up liking the album.

Edited July 4, 2016 by orange~

[Atreides 454]

Thank everyone for your insightful posts, I will most definitely be checking out every album mentioned, probably in chronological order of albums mentioned, and some lives.  It's been an extremely long time since I've heard them, it's not that I stopped liking them, it's just that around 2006 there was alot of other music I was interested in. (Almost too much), I will definitely be catching up on DeG. Especially interested in The Marrow of a Bone, various lives, Arche, and Uroboros.  Again, I appreciate the insightful posts.

 

edit: Also @orange~The reason I became interested again is because of when you played 3rd Empire earlier in dubtrack, brought back alot of memories.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Atreides

[Saishu 1589]

The "perfect edition" live performance of Uroko has questionable moments (the choice to not have any rhythm guitar in favor of a dual solo kind of bothers me), but the way Kyo nails the final note in the a capella part (bataaa tsuKAAAAAA!!!) gives me chills. He's still rough around as a vocalist, but there's no doubt that he's improved and has taken steps to better his technique and care for his voice. 

[Pretsy 1343]

10 hours ago, The MAD Stallion said:

Its no surprise that I really am not a big fan of ARCHE. Its easily one of the most forgettable albums as a whole. But based on what i peeped of the perfect edition Budokan live that came out as well as the Bonus CD that was upped recently, I can say that the album did its job. The job being able to have the songs translated well in a live setting. I had theories on how who should've been playing what in regards to Guitars but the way it was done in the end was quite pleasant, especially MIDWIFE, and BEHIND A VACANT IMAGE. UROKO live has grown on me. Lots of grit there, so much so that i could give them a pass for the solo bit.  Also I didn't think it was possible for RINKAKU to become even more of a masterpiece but i enjoyed the touch up on the piano and the intro (can i thank Takumi for this? @Carmelzors) .

 

Yes, Takumi has been the significant figure in their programming antics ever since RES' disbandment (as an assistant) and post-DSS days (DSS left him uncredited for some reason even though he *was* there). This includes pianos, midi synths, programmed zithers (Tousei), partial guitar manipulation/mixing (considering that he used to work as a guitar tech for DEG at first) etc. etc. So you might as well go out on a limb and assume that Takumi may be the "sixth member" by that sense.

 

Fun fact: he is also responsible for post-Uroboros band scores (even though he goes under his real name which...isn't different from his pseudonym, lol).

 

As for Arche, sure - there is a handful of songs (Tousei, Cause of Fickleness, STU, Un Deux, The Inferno, Midwife) that may have been conveyed in the same fashion live-wise as well. However, we are talking merely about "handful" in this case: not much has been learned from very studio-centered ambitions on DSS and THE UNRAVELING. As such, my point still stands along with how I see their current inter-relationships (negativity is anything but tinfoil theory at this point) - even these "supposed" improvements in songwriting tactics didn't come out as we speak. What I personally hear now, is basically hindrance of mutual interests.

 

Since @Undead burgerpointed out the case of "Kyo blame", allow me to point out another missed detail: during their ARCHE stream it was mentioned that Kyo's role was equal to other band members "during the final phases of the album". Shouldn't we feel bad for our angst-ridden chanteuse when he tries to meddle between two acts, and oopsie-daisie: he happens to contribute a lot more to his own project? Does that make ARCHE more of "Kaoru album" (see: the stream again) than "Kyo + Kaoru + co." album then? How can ARCHE be the "representative" of Dir en grey's sound then? Is DEG literally "all Kaoru"? We might never know...or do we?!

 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Alroy

[Saishu 1589]

Well, even during the days when individual band members got songwriting credits, Kaoru's name was the most featured. I think it's safe to say he's the chief songwriter, and you can almost always tell what songs he DIDN'T compose. I knew right away that Tousei and Kaishun were the work of Die. 

[Nowhere Girl 189]

1 hour ago, Saishu said:

Well, even during the days when individual band members got songwriting credits, Kaoru's name was the most featured.

I kind of love that Kyo's single music-writing contribution to Kisou is The Domestic Fucker Family.

[Saishu 1589]

The only other song I know of with Kyo's name on it is Hades. There's a possibility that Sajou no Uta is his because there's a clip of him workin out the chords with Die. Which consisted of Kyo having Die play a chord until it sounded like the one he wanted. 

[Nowhere Girl 189]

28 minutes ago, Saishu said:

The only other song I know of with Kyo's name on it is Hades. There's a possibility that Sajou no Uta is his because there's a clip of him workin out the chords with Die. Which consisted of Kyo having Die play a chord until it sounded like the one he wanted. 

I believe he also wrote (S). Something tells me he also played a big part in stuff like Saku and Reiketsu Nariseba, but I have nothing to support that.
 
It's a shame they dropped the members' names in the credits, although I suppose that their recent mode of working (we write all our parts separately and glue them together later) doesn't really lend itself to that practice.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Nowhere Girl

[Saishu 1589]

I used to assume the heavier stuff was probably Kyo, but it's most likely Kaoru. 

 

Die's songs are easy to identify; just listen for the jangle. 

[emmny 4139]

takumi thank u baby

[Ro plz 1290]

Seeing as though i have found some kind of solidity with how Budokan ARCHE turned out, I'm gonna have to go and respectfully disagree with the notion that this supposed negative inter-relationship between the band members is why XYZ turned out the way they did this time around. I don't think its entirely fair to STILL put that clause on them especially since the supposed "faulty" tracks, aren't nearly as bad period compared to the conundrum that was a majority of Dum Spiro Spero tracks live. Despite what the interviews say, what bit we see of the studio sessions and what not, we never really get a full picture of whats going on between them. Imho, the fact that ARCHE live seems so well received is because of what I'm assuming is a positive relationship that allowed the band members to sit down when writing this album and work out the kinks together. Nothing entirely is ever going to be perfect but this could've been much worse. 

 

As for song writing Credits, there really isn't a big surprise there that there's one main person getting credit for most of the work. At least up until DSS where it was blatantly stated that they didn't work together, it seems as if the process is pretty standard to what happens in a lot of bands? One person is the main writer of tracks, brings it to the table and as a collective whole, they break it down and restructure with everyone's input. 

 

 

[Pretsy 1343]

18 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

I believe he also wrote (S). Something tells me he also played a big part in stuff like Saku and Reiketsu Nariseba, but I have nothing to support that.
 
It's a shame they dropped the members' names in the credits, although I suppose that their recent mode of working (we write all our parts separately and glue them together later) doesn't really lend itself to that practice.

Kyo was the lead composer of DREAMBOX as well (I wish I could find a full link for full-on DSS analysis stream by the band but we could only hope due to those pesky niconico copyright hijinks). He started out with his vocal part/melodies then let the whole band construct the suitable arrangement on his own invention (not otherwise like with most songs). This kind of practice has been showcased on Vulgar's TV special with "Sajou no Uta"  too except that Kyo had to 50/50 with Die due to his not-so-fully developed, individual songwriting skills back then. Nowadays he's at least fully aware of functions and principles of music theory, not to mention much wider plethora of various influences (artsy movies, dark vidya games, etc. etc.).

 

The same goes for his earlier "creations" like Karma or Domestic (as mentioned), which were for the most part supervised and supported by Kaoru's expertise back then. To sum it up, DREAMBOX may be so far the first "credited" (orally) Kyo song which involved his INDEPENDENT work before band's involvement.

 

Edited July 5, 2016 by Alroy

[EvilHippy 142]

What. The. Hell.

[nekkichi 6043]

sheer fabulousness aside, when was the last time they had separate storyline CMs for their releases?

 

I only remember the schoolgirl series for cage when they were marketed as the fxxckin' spiciest thing to come out of yoshiki's roaster - but maybe I just never saw the other ones

[Puriwate 28]

Didn't kaoru say something in an interview a while ago about a new album in 2017? Anything to that or?

[Ro plz 1290]

Yes, he said after Budokan that the band will take a brief break and head back in the studio to make more music and then tour the states again.

[Deathtopi4 428]

Lmao that spot was so intense that my browser crashed in the middle of watching it 

[blacktooth 227]

I just want the track suits to come back. 

[Pretsy 1343]

Speaking of which, after lurking jrocknyc (hi, veterans) again, I remember that Arche DVD - or the hell, most Dir DVD menus have rather neato BGMs (had to quote this picolink from there)

 

http://picosong.com/xrt9/

(off Arche DVD - @Saishudo you think that this is off the ALBUM or that budokan DVD?)

 

That sounds rather Uroboros-y for some reason - with oriental stuff and whatnot (speaking of composers, I sense heavy Kaoru-isms there). Why wouldn't this replace otherwise very bland "And Zero" instead?

Edited July 8, 2016 by Alroy

[Saishu 1589]

That's from the Arche Budokan menu.  Probably written specifically for the DVD. 

 

Would have made a great SE, though. 

Edited July 8, 2016 by Saishu

[rekzer 599]

i think thats the SE they used as an intro for the last US tour?

sure sounds like it

[Saishu 1589]

I got bored and decided to incorporate And Zero and Tefutefu into Arche's tracklist. I ended up completely rearranging everything and ended up with a really weird song sequence. 

 

Turns out Un Deux is actually a good album closer. 

[Crube 585]

12 hours ago, Saishu said:

I got bored and decided to incorporate And Zero and Tefutefu into Arche's tracklist. I ended up completely rearranging everything and ended up with a really weird song sequence. 

 

Turns out Un Deux is actually a good album closer. 

What was the arrangement?