Saishu 1589 Posted May 13, 2017 I'm saying just because you haven't see a band perform live, it doesn't mean you can't criticize them. Studio albums are indicative of an artist's musical skill and songwriting capabilities. If a band has five albums and I only like one of them, I think it's fair to say that I don't like the band's music. Seeing them live won't change anything. 12 suji, sakuran, r... and 9 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-NOVA- 3027 Posted May 13, 2017 When people debate on a thread In all seriousness this band has been one of the most succcesful ones for its time. Its a shame this is happening but i must admit they did push realeases too fast wich i think burned them out and now we're seeing the aftermath... I will admit i do think they're older stuff was much better. That doesnt mean their recent stuff is bad. I just think with Mejibrays talent these last few realeses had potential to be so much more. Hopefully this break is only temporary and they come back stronger than ever. 3 Komorebi, Elazmus and Delkmiroph reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
saishuu 3220 Posted May 13, 2017 (edited) Okay, I've been reading a lot of people here saying they were one of the most successful and popular bands out of this latest generation and my question is: were they? I've always felt they are far more successful among the western fanbase than in Japan, which honestly means absolutely nothing to determine their status in the scene. They don't seem to sell that well, the biggest place they held an oneman was Zepp Tokyo (in 2014; other than that they seem to have reached a plateau at Akasaka BLITZ, meaning they've been stagnated for years now) and it doesn't look like they're leaving much of an impact within the scene (if any at all). Edited May 13, 2017 by saishuu 8 Nyasagi, platy, emmny and 5 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saishu 1589 Posted May 13, 2017 It's the shortsightedness of the non-Japanese VK fan where they think if their close knit internet community is aware, then all of Japan must be. That's not the case. The average Japanese person has no clue most of the bands we discuss even exist. 3 jduv86, platy and jaymee reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nyasagi 259 Posted May 13, 2017 They used to be my favorite band, but I've been gradually losing interest in them during the last... 2-3 years? The start was good, then they became to sound the same, and also weren't present online as much as they used to, stopped releasing funny making of videos, etc. For a foreign fan it's a huge difference, because it's not just the music that's important when you can't experience anything else about the band. I also think that there are better bands in the vk scene, but I just liked them anyway... until they started losing unity in their image (each member began to look way too different than each other, and it was a mistake, in my opinion), and ran out of new ideas for the music. 3 sakuran, suji and platy reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karma’s Hat 3107 Posted May 13, 2017 I think they peaked at 420 for sure. Before the singles run that came after it they were quite an adventurous band all things considered. Emotional Karma is a hodgepodge of different styles from Dir en grey larping to straight SADS to what they eventually ended up sounding like later. They had a few dramatic ballads that clocked in north of 6 minutes, two minutes blurbs of SADS made formless and heavier and in general the stylistic makeup of this band is really the sum of the parts of the members interests. MiA's hard-on for shredding contained in very concise nu vk packages with the least predictable vocalist since like prime kyo of 2002. People who've been calling them generic have been blatantly wrong; they might've been generic for the their own form by end of their run, but not once were they a dime-a-dozen vk band. 5 diryangrey, Kaleidoscope, emmny and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nekkichi 6043 Posted May 13, 2017 6 hours ago, saishuu said: Okay, I've been reading a lot of people here saying they were one of the most successful and popular bands out of this latest generation and my question is: were they? no, not really they've been stagnating and losing sales (and fans?) since 2014 http://www.oricon.co.jp/prof/542980/rank/single/ sadie was a way bigger/more recognizable name before the hiatus, despite having less possessed demonic weaboonetgya 4 sakuran, saishuu, cvltic and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
filth_y 189 Posted May 13, 2017 9 hours ago, Saishu said: I'm saying just because you haven't see a band perform live, it doesn't mean you can't criticize them. Studio albums are indicative of an artist's musical skill and songwriting capabilities. If a band has five albums and I only like one of them, I think it's fair to say that I don't like the band's music. Seeing them live won't change anything. I would say that especially in vk, studio albums say NOTHING, really NOTHING about the band. I've seen so many bands that were great on CD utterly bad live to the point that they could not play the most easiest riffs live. Others that i did not like on CD had amazing shows with great onstage personality. (DVD/Bluray lives dont matter to "have seen a band live" IMO). Its true that oversea fans can mostly only critize on CD sound, photoshop images, DVD, PV, etc. but its cool to see that the awarness of how bad most bands are increases due to more oversea people visiting lives in japan/more japanese people writing on here. Maybe more and more people that dont then will understand how unimportant their opinion can be (if opinios are important at all, opinions are still opinions). Just dont know whats more unimportant than an oversea fans opinion who doesnt visit their lives. 4 jaymee, Komorebi, Euthanasia and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karma’s Hat 3107 Posted May 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, nekkichi said: no, not really they've been stagnating and losing sales (and fans?) since 2014 http://www.oricon.co.jp/prof/542980/rank/single/ sadie was a way bigger/more recognizable name before the hiatus, despite having less possessed demonic weaboonetgya oh wow the latest single selling almost as bad as their first ones. btw didn't also fucking dezert of all bands play at a larger venue than these guys ever did? At least that's what it looked like visually iirc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nekkichi 6043 Posted May 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Disposable said: btw didn't also fucking dezert of all bands play at a larger venue than these guys ever did? At least that's what it looked like visually iirc I don't really follow dezert :/ sales numbers here - http://www.oricon.co.jp/prof/594391/rank/album/ their singles page is blank tho, idk if they were an album only band or Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaymee 405 Posted May 13, 2017 3 hours ago, filth_y said: Just dont know whats more unimportant than an oversea fans opinion who doesnt visit their lives. This was what I was trying to get at in a nicer, non-elitist sounding way. This applies to Japanese fans, too. Tanuki has no shortage of posts bashing the self-important opinions of fans who just buy releases but can never be assed to make it out to a show. Also yes about bands sounding horrrrrible live but fine recorded, like at least 95% of mainstream/popular idol groups in Japan. One of the more disappointing things you'll experience as a gya is occasionally going all the way out to Tokyo and shelling out money for a live, only to sit through the show thinking, "Damn I should have just saved my money and listened to this on YouTube instead." 2 Komorebi and Euthanasia reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jduv86 224 Posted May 14, 2017 I'm happy Mejibray is taking a break. I really agree with the fact that they haven't really put out anything too great for awhile now and it could do their music wonders. Think about the Gazette. Whether you hated or love their Dogma project, it was a HUGE refreshment from what they were putting out prior. That almost 2 year gap between releases helped them tremendously. ----- that's all I have to say opinion wise on the matter. If you want to continue reading after this, I just jumped into the most recent debate for a quick spell. Nothing serious. ---- On 5/13/2017 at 6:26 AM, filth_y said: I would say that especially in vk, studio albums say NOTHING, really NOTHING about the band. I've seen so many bands that were great on CD utterly bad live to the point that they could not play the most easiest riffs live. Others that i did not like on CD had amazing shows with great onstage personality. (DVD/Bluray lives dont matter to "have seen a band live" IMO). Its true that oversea fans can mostly only critize on CD sound, photoshop images, DVD, PV, etc. but its cool to see that the awarness of how bad most bands are increases due to more oversea people visiting lives in japan/more japanese people writing on here. Maybe more and more people that dont then will understand how unimportant their opinion can be (if opinios are important at all, opinions are still opinions). Just dont know whats more unimportant than an oversea fans opinion who doesnt visit their lives. To say that the opinion of a fan who buys their products, but doesn't see their lives is unimportant is wrong though. Whether buying their ticket and seeing them live or buying their stuff, that money IS what keeps the band going. I don't think the band really would care if 5 people didn't show up to a show, but 5 people bought their DVD, CDs, posters, etc. at the same value as the ticket. Also, some people aren't able to make it out to a show (small venue, tickes sold out. Work schedule conflicts, etc, etc) or can't even get to be in Japan to see these bands. Their opinion might not matter to you, but it does matter. But I'm sure you've seen EVERY band live before you decided to criticize them or like them, right? On 5/12/2017 at 8:43 PM, Saishu said: I'm saying just because you haven't see a band perform live, it doesn't mean you can't criticize them. Studio albums are indicative of an artist's musical skill and songwriting capabilities. If a band has five albums and I only like one of them, I think it's fair to say that I don't like the band's music. Seeing them live won't change anything. I agree with this statement, except the studio album part. With the technology available to sound engineers, you can take someone who sounds as nasally and flat as Sakito (ex. Duel e Quartz) and make him sound as godly as Asagi from D. You can take anything from the "CRAPPY songs to cure people from rare indies bands obsession" thread and make it sound like L'arc en CIel or Dir en Grey gold. It has no indicate of the skill. In conclusion, all of your opinions are valid to a degree because that is what keeps the band alive. Buying tickets, buying products, and SPREADING THE WORD about the band whether good or band KEEPS THE BAND ALIVE because it all leads to monetary value for the band to continue. Sorry to go on and on and on. lol. 6 gekiai, Nyasagi, Komorebi and 3 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
filth_y 189 Posted May 14, 2017 1 hour ago, jduv86 said: Whether buying their ticket and seeing them live or buying their stuff, that money IS what keeps the band going. I don't think the band really would care if 5 people didn't show up to a show, but 5 people bought their DVD, CDs, posters, etc. at the same value as the ticket. Also, some people aren't able to make it out to a show (small venue, tickes sold out. Work schedule conflicts, etc, etc) or can't even get to be in Japan to see these bands. Their opinion might not matter to you, but it does matter. But I'm sure you've seen EVERY band live before you decided to criticize them or like them, right? Well, i dont know what size of band we are talking about. But i would say 90% of the bands discussed here have no idea/dont care if their CDs are bought overseas. Their income comes mostly from tickets/merchandise (Cheki, cheki, cheki).. Also, surely everyone can write band xy sucks or xy is so amazing, while their bandpicture is pure photoshop, their CD recording is done by session musicians, writing by ghostwriters, etc. The oversea fans then are critizising something totally different from the actual band. But well, thats how it is. I actually dont want to sound like some elitism shit here, just raise awarness maybe, idk. Everyone critize/like/hate how they want, when you visit the actual live you notice how it doesnt matter. 1 jaymee reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sakuran 1216 Posted May 14, 2017 (edited) On 5/12/2017 at 6:24 PM, jaymee said: I somewhat disagree. To be frank, visual kei, like most art in Japan, is not made for the international community or international recognition. I mean, you are free to your opinion, but I don't see why a band should be judged on the basis of not appealing to a fanbase they were never trying to appeal to, if that makes sense. well as a useless baka gaijin I guess I'd better quit listening to vk and following vk bands and buying vk bands' CDs and merch and just giving a shit about vk at all then, if I can't go to lives ever, even though this is 2017 we're living in and everything gets consumed internationally these days through this magical invention called the Internet Edited May 14, 2017 by ryuhime 9 Komorebi, Elazmus, suji and 6 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
suji 8317 Posted May 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, ryuhime said: well as a useless baka gaijin I guess I'd better quit listening to vk and following vk bands and buying vk bands' CDs and merch and just giving a shit about vk at all then, if I can't go to lives ever, even though this is 2017 we're living in and everything gets consumed internationally these days through this magical invention called the Internet 4 Aferni, Seimeisen, sakuran and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chemicalpictures 1888 Posted May 14, 2017 Dunno about you guys, but every time I see people calling VK art I let go a tiny, but sincere chuckle 12 suji, Seimeisen, Aferni and 9 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herpes 1597 Posted May 14, 2017 idk how i missed this thread but 8 suji, Delkmiroph, Takadanobabaalien and 5 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frayed 404 Posted May 14, 2017 5/12, Niigata: 1. hatred × tangle red × hunger red 2. RAVEN 3. VICTIM(ism) 4. Black bacarrat 5. Agitato GRIMOIRE 6. EMILY 7. 悲哀 8. 盈虧 9. ナナキ 10. Sliver 11. 嘘と愚考-それもまた人間らしいって神様は笑ってるの- 12. 原罪の林檎 13. Negator NEGATOR 14. 枷と知能 -それってとても人間らしいって神様は笑ってるの- 15. And Then There Were None. No encore. ------ 5/14, Sendai: 1. 羽花 2. パラダイム・パラドックス 3. VICTIM(ism) 4. Black bacarrat 5. ネペンテス 6. EMILY 7. 悲哀 8. 醜詠 9. ナナキ 10. Sliver 11. 嘘と愚考-それもまた人間らしいって神様は笑ってるの- 12. 原罪の林檎 13. Negator NEGATOR 14. 枷と知能 -それってとても人間らしいって神様は笑ってるの- 15. And Then There Were None. No encore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elazmus 1873 Posted May 15, 2017 3 hours ago, frayed said: 15. And Then There Were None. No encore. *tope suicida* 5 Karma’s Hat, Serox, smilesxchibi and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mamo 1172 Posted May 15, 2017 Is this going to be the end of them folks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ro plz 1290 Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) I hope they don't disband. I may have had issues with the onslaught of back to back releases but 羽花 was a pretty baling track. It showed that they could actually make some killer tunes if they try vs recycling the same track over and over again. I purposefully kept tabs on em Their first batch of releases were nice. They just need to channel that energy and use it to make fresher tracks if they don't disband. Edited May 15, 2017 by Ro plz 3 Aferni, Mamo and Elazmus reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaymee 405 Posted May 15, 2017 7 hours ago, ryuhime said: well as a useless baka gaijin I guess I'd better quit listening to vk and following vk bands and buying vk bands' CDs and merch and just giving a shit about vk at all then, if I can't go to lives ever, even though this is 2017 we're living in and everything gets consumed internationally these days through this magical invention called the Internet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hiroki 5521 Posted May 15, 2017 can't help but feel that this whole debate is much ado about nothing if you're living in japan and regularly go to lives then you're entitled to give your opinion on their lives. if you're an international fan who voraciously gobbles up all their releases (legally or not) then you're entitled to evaluate the quality of their recorded music. the problem only arises when this discussion bleeds into the neighboring terrain of 'how does one objectively judge a band's quality?' or 'what's the proper way of enjoying a band?'--which never fails to generate 5 pages of same old thing that impresses no one in particular... then there's the question of how much instrumental value you are actually of to the band, which is related but entirely separable from the first. it's def true that the actual impact of someone ordering a 3000 yen album from CDJapan on the band is probably a lot less than they think, but that doesn't reduce the weight of their opinion on the band's recorded music. critics all over the world are paid to do exactly that: to give their opinions while remaining pretty much monetarily irrelevant. 20 frayed, Nyasagi, cvltic and 17 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anadentone 478 Posted May 15, 2017 Ya know, I like Die Kusse, Die slitty tongue ,& Das Kawaii Dummer but the boys are being over worked. I feel like they needed to take a break or they'll burn out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karma’s Hat 3107 Posted May 15, 2017 I honestly usually don't really care about disbandments, hiatuses and everything else that I cannot affect personally even if they're faves, but looking at those setlists just got me a bit down. Really on my hands and knees praying that tsuzuku perseveres and comes back in some form or another. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites