Why do you think that J-rock never really broke through in the west?

[dannemannen 69]

Don't get me wrong.
I remember Jrock being quite popular in western countries like 10 years ago, Dir en Grey touring in Europe and playing at rock festivals etc, hype was insane... but the popularity seems to just have gotten weaker and weaker through the years for some reason, and today it seems that no one except the hard core fans care about the scene. No buzz at all. 
 

I grew up with Japanese rock and Japanese rockers have created some of the most amazing videos and catchiest/craziest/coolest rock songs in human history. There is no doubt about that -  but for some reason, they never just seem to get recognized for it. Again, there is just no buzz anymore. 

 

Take a song like Different Sense by dir en grey, I swear if it was released by a so-so famous American band, it would have more than 5 million views on youtube now (and if it was a famous band 50mil+), but its around 400k - and it was released 7 years ago. That video is awesome (& shocking in a good way), and the song is so catchy and badass. Or why not Gazette with the undying at 200k? What the hell are those numbers for that kickass song? Jrock never just seem to get that big break or recognition in the west, that they deserve. Mucc is another band with some really really high quality well written catchy rock songs, some of the best, but like no one knows about them, and all their songs are on Youtube.

 

I might suck ass at trying to explain what I want to say, but simply, why don't you think that Jrock never really broke through in the west? What hindered everything? I def not think its the quality of the music (or language barries as most songs get released after a while with translations)... There are almost no reaction channels to Japanese Rock either, while there are millions to Kpop (I am not comparing Kpop to Jrock, just a reference)... for the third time, there just seem to be no buzz at all anymore...?

 

Just why? 

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by dannemannen

[Zeus 7997]

1. It's not in English. I don't play Japanese music for my friends often, but when I do it's instrumental or with good English vocals because the minute they hear Japanese, I know 95% of them will stop listening. People want to understand what the song is about and you can't do that with Japanese music if it's all in Japanese. The vocals that are in English still have a distinctly Japanese quality to them, and that turns off a lot of native speakers. That leaves a very small group of people to make a big impression for everyone. Not a great way to start.
    
2. Rock music is not mainstream in America right now. It's hip hop, pop, and r&b that runs the air waves. It's not a bad thing, but I find i digest these genres of music differently than I do rock and metal, and people that have not grown up with rock and metal may never have developed a taste for it. I've always heard that rock and metal is the closest thing to classical music in the modern era, and on the same note I don't find many people appreciate Bach and Mozart for what it is. It just doesn't "move them".
    
3. Anime was considered taboo and nerdy up until recently, when now all of a sudden it became cool to watch Dragon ball Super and My Hero Academia and other big-name shounen. Anime and Japan are always seen as synonymous to the barely acquainted, so anime and rock music are also tied together by virtue of this rock music being from Japan. Stupid associations, but that's how it is. Considering just how bad a lot of anime themes are, I can see people associating the worst of J-pop themes with all Japanese music.
    
4. Consider this 3.5, but the people that were first promoting the music were deep into the scene, like "appropriating parts of Japanese language and unironically dressing like a visual kei rocker" deep. They...did not make the best ambassadors for visual kei music. On the other side of the coin, the Japanese indie scene has always been a smaller group covering a wider range of music, cloistered and secluded on private servers and trackers. They wanted to preserve their culture the way it was, so they weren't exactly interested in proselytizing their music to a wider audience. Y'all gotta realize peeps like @CAT5are the exception to the rule.
    
5. Japanese record companies in general do a pretty shit job of marketing themselves and their music to a wider audience, which is perplexing to me because the anime industry is absolutely KILLING IT right now. They jumped onto the digital distribution wave too late and by that time, the fad had already started diminishing. We have no equivalent to Crunchyroll to have a legal bridge between record companies and interested Western audiences. HearJapan was close, but in some ways I think it was too ahead of its time and never got the support it needed once everyone involved realized it wouldn't be a 1-2-3 smash hit.

 

I always maintained that I would be a sensation or "the next Jimi Hendrix" if I took a bunch of my favorite J-Rock and visual kei songs and sung them in English...

[colorful人生 2777]

Zeus breaks it down pretty well.

 

To add a smidgen of my opinion, I think that Visual Kei's western popularity (U.S from my experience) greatly paralleled the interest in emo/counterculture in the mid 2000s. They both had similar aesthetic and garnered similar fans w/ plenty of overlap. That interest has largely died out and has re-surged into -core genres and melded itself into other indie acts. Visual Kei, being a physically distant/foreign genre, in-turn became a niche interest again.

 

Additionally, Japan is still the premier example of Galapagos Syndrome and is pretty self-reliant. K-pop, on the other hand, is dependent on a global audience and embraces Western interest which reciprocatively affects its own music industry. Also "Cool Japan" hasn't helped jack-squat with well-known figures like Gackt being critical of it (it's futile when the industry at large is isolated.)

 

Finally, Japanese music just sounds different. I try to link to this reddit thread w/ nonotan's comment when I can b/c I've always felt there was some underlying music-theory reason why J-Music attracts and repels certain groups of people. There are a lot of people that I've met that have thought Japanese melodies were cheesy so this helps explain that a little. 

 

-

As an aside, I'm a bit more on the pessimistic side about anime becoming more popular (rather than just accepted). I still think the combination of the "nostalgia factor" and internet culture have drawn more (perceived) attention to it than genuine interest... But, the $$$ points to it growing so we'll see. Maybe I'm more of a skeptic w/ the rate at which recent boom in interest has happened.

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by colorfuljinsei

[karai · ebi 505]

4 hours ago, Zeus said:

1. It's not in English.

99% of the time for me when I try to share music with a 'regular' person this is the first thing they complain about.

Even if a translation is available, or I can explain to them, nope ''it's just a Japanese song''.

 

I've asked then why not pretend it's instrumental and just enjoy the beat...nope. I don't really understand but I guess it depends how you grew up and what you had exposure to.

Strangely I have gotten the same kind of people to listen to German songs, so somehow to them Japanese is some other lower tier or something not worth listening to. I probably would've got the same response to Mandarin songs but I just turned them on without asking.

[colorful人生 2777]

37 minutes ago, karai · ebi said:

Strangely I have gotten the same kind of people to listen to German songs, so somehow to them Japanese is some other lower tier or something not worth listening to. I probably would've got the same response to Mandarin songs but I just turned them on without asking.

This brings up a question for the EU folk.

How large of a role does your close proximity to countries with varying cultures play into the acceptance/interest in vk?

I had a Finnish friend growing up who exposed me to all sorts of music nonchalantly. It was much diff. to the mainstream hivemind I was generally exposed to. That's merely my experience though, and it could've been diff. in any other part of the U.S.

Edited May 5, 2018 by colorfuljinsei

[SwampMan 222]

I agree, the language barrier is a huge factor but not the only one. Wanting to understand what the song is about/lyrics is relevant mostly to native/english speakers, but what about the rest of the world? I'm gonna take my country as an example (Italy), the vast majority of people here have very limited english knowledge to say the least (familiarity with the english language will be different from country to country), they do not actually understand 95% of the words they hear in the songs they so much love. I've tested this numerous times with different people of all ages, yet songs sung in english are fine. As another example let's think about the huge surge of latino/reggaeton music in recent years, how much do non-spanish speakers understand? I'm gonna take a guess and say very little, yet people all around the world seem to be enjoying them regardless. When I pointed this out the only motivation that was given to me was that japanese music "sucks", despite me proposing different genres from VK and songs that were either very similar to western music or more "exotic" (in an attempt to capture their interest).

Edited May 5, 2018 by SwampMan

[lichtlune 915]

6 hours ago, colorfuljinsei said:

As an aside, I'm a bit more on the pessimistic side about anime becoming more popular (rather than just accepted). I still think the combination of the "nostalgia factor" and internet culture have drawn more (perceived) attention to it than genuine interest... But, the $$$ points to it growing so we'll see. Maybe I'm more of a skeptic w/ the rate at which recent boom in interest has happened.

 

 

[The Moon 989]

beacause a gaijin (foreign ner) is very baka (stupid) 

[seikun 317]

I think the experience in the US is not the same as that outside the US when it comes to Japanese music. I feel the US came late to the boom Visual Kei experienced in other places around the world such as Latin America and Europe. For exmple, for US citizens Japanese may be too much of a foreign language and may be less willing to give it a chance while in other countries listening to other language in music may not be that much of  a problem. I don't want to sound prejudiced but I feel the US is very ethnocentric.

 

But anyway, the Japanese make music to satisfy their own taste and, while it is not hypnotising every single person in the world it has managed to found a place in the west.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by seikun

[Tanishi 598]

I wouldn't/don't want it to take off in the West because catering to Western audiences would make it similar to Western music removing the unique aspects that attract me to Japanese music in the first place. When I want to listen to Western music I listen to Western music. Similar to how I dislike how anime it becoming more popular, if it became Westernized it would lose the unique 'anime' traits that make me watch it. And I know both anime and Japanese music have many Western influences already but they have both morphed and become somewhat unique in their own right.

[qotka 433]

I think the comparison with the anime industry reveals one of the reasons why Jrock/vkei is not a thing in the west - Cool Japan has a top-down/soft power/blahblah approach that utilizes pop culture to draw people to Japanese culture and thus make Japanese endeavors outside of Japan (not just in the west) more profitable and attract more business and tourism. The Cool Japan fund will invest in any sort of content/media that will make Japanese culture stand out, but only if it sees the potential, ie organic interest in the content/subject matter, like big anime/cosplay conventions -  quantifiable receipts that I don't think Jrock had even in the height of its hype overseas. 

 

Plus, I think music is more than about understanding lyrics. It's culture, it's being able to relate to ideas and sentiments expressed there and catch cultural cues that you'll miss if you don't spend hours digging around the internet for reference. If it takes a lot of work to actually 'get' a song, less people will wanna do it. This is why Kpop companies train their idols to speak and sing in Japanese and Mandarin, and why the AKB franchise 'translated' itself by forming local units across Asia instead of selling the Japanese content as is. I don't think Jrock can be localized the same way, nor that it should be. 

 

At the end of the day, as was already said here, Jrock had its 15 minutes of being an almost international thing thanks to anime, but it didn't hold because you can't translate and sell it as well as you can with anime. 

[Ikki 807]

I think when VK/J-rock tried to break out into the Western music scene in the mid to late 2000s mirrored the Japanese metal scene trying to break out into the Western music scene during the 1980s.  The only main difference is this time around, most of the groups didn't try to sing in English or try to recruit a Westerner at some point for their band to make them more marketable (looking at you Loudness and Bow Wow).  Even back during the 2000s, I knew that VK wasn't going to make an impact outside of Japan due to how the majority of them were being marketed to people who attended anime cons.  I was just excited I could buy VK albums that were released outside of Japan for a fraction of what CDJapan was selling them.

 

I decided to compile a list of Japanese artists that have released albums in the West that charted on the Billboard charts. 

 

There is a few things to note right off the bat:

1. The following Japanese metal groups that only released in Europe during the 1980s: Anthem, Earthshaker, Vow Wow
2. The following Japanese metal groups that had albums released in the USA, but did not chart: Dead End, Gastunk
3. The following VK groups that had albums released in the USA, but did not chart: D'espairsRay, MUCC, Kra, the GazettE, Alice Nine, Versailles, Mix Speaker's Inc, L'arc~en~Ciel
4. Albums by Loudness, EZO, OK ONE ROCK, and Utada Hikaru that charted in the USA on this list were recorded in English.

I listed everything from highest charting spot to lowest charting spot.  I did not include record sells since a lot of the older releases, I couldn't find what the sales were for the date when the record charted at that spot.

• Sakamoto Kyu - Sukiyaki and Other Japanese Hits (1963) [Billboard 200: #26]

• BABYMETAL - Metal Resistance (2016) [Billboard 200: #39]

• Loudness - Lightning Strikes (1986) [Billboard 200: #64]
• Utada Hikaru - This Is the One (2009) [Billboard 200: #69]
• Loudness - Thunder in the East (1985) [Billboard 200: #74]
• ONE OK ROCK - Ambitions International Version (2017) [Billboard 200: #106]
• EZO - EZO (1987) [Billboard 200: #150]
• Utada Hikaru - Exodus (2004) [Billboard 200: #160]
• Loudness - Hurricane Eyes (1987) [Billboard 200: #190]
• Dir En Grey - Uroboros (2008) [Billboard Heatseeker: #1]
• Dir En Grey - Dum Spiro Spero (2011) [Billboard Heatseeker: #2]
• BABYMETAL - BABYMETAL (2015) [Billboard Heatseeker: #4]
• Dir En Grey - The Marrow of a Bone (2007) [Billboard Heatseeker: #8]
• ONE OK ROCK - 35xxxv Deluxe Edition (2015) [Billboard Heatseeker: #17]
• Pizzicato Five - Happy End of the World (1997) [Billboard Heatseeker: #32]
• Shonen Knife - Rock Animals (1994) [Billboard Heatseeker: #39]
• Dir En Grey - Withering to Death (2006) [Billboard Heatseeker: #42]

From what I've posted, I do think that not singing in English could have hurt any success Dir En Grey and other VK-related bands could have had in the Western music scene.  I also think the type of music Dir En Grey did also hindered them in some ways.  Before someone brings up BABYMETAL sings in Japanese and  managed to sell well; I view them in a similar light as Steel Panther, a group that's not super serious compare to a group like Dir En Grey.

[VkBrutaliaN 1890]

because some people mentioned the language barrier i wanna state something...

 

i once (YEARS ago) read an interview with a death metal band (dunno the band anymore though...) and they were speaking about lyrics and thei vocalist said like: nowadays no one cares anymore about lyrics. and as a vocalist you can practically sing about anything cuz no one cares... as long as it sounds good and so on...

 

and thats also kinda my opinion at least for this specific statement.

because i personally don't understand jack shit what my beloved japanese bands are singing BUT i love the flow of the language so thats why i listen to it!

also back in the day before i know any Vk bands i liked a band because of the music/vocals then i read the lyrics and was like: WTF SHIT are you serious? this lyrics are SOO SO BAD i can't take this... which was a point that ruined most of english songs for me.

not to mention that (according to many translations i got) most Vk lyrics of the stuff i listen to are pretty damn good but kinda depressing as fuck why i am even more mostly beiing kinda shocked that so many young kiddie girls love Vk....

so to come to an conclusion i love Vk because of the music itself, the vocal flow and because of the lyrics if you understand the lyrics in probably 4/5 cases you would probably go from: WOW i love this band to > OH that lyrics wtf were they thinking so i can't listen to this or that band anymore... DONE! ;D

Edited May 8, 2018 by VkBrutaliaN

[Kaye 296]

Speaking from the pov of someone who's interviewed lots of western bands + is European: you don't "break" into the European scene. People just happen to pick up your music or they don't unless you're with some bigass label that pushes it towards mediaplatforms. The recordlabels in Europe that have Japanese bands signed are mainly responsible for distribution of the CDs, as well as getting them venues/promo when they come to Europe for tours. They don't promo them with a big PLAY THESE DUDES PLS. Rockbands in these type of genres get around by touring, not by getting played on a radiostation or anything.

 

As for the US. I've heard it a lot from the bands I've spoken to, but it's more of a thing in the US than it is over here. We simply don't care much about language since we have loads of them in our surroundings. It doesn't NEED to be English. The US is simply more chauvinistic in that way where they want all their media to be English. Look at all the dubbing of anime, for instance. Sure, it happens in some countries here too but overall it's fairly tame in comparison + only for the children's shows. Or whenever they find some interesting European or Asian movie that isn't in English they feel the need to remake it with the idea that "people won't bother with subtitles" or something of the likes (They've done it with some of our local productions and then horribly failed). So there's part explanation in that too.

 

Imo OOR would have done way better if they'd have just stuck to their original thing of mixing English and Japanese. Now they just sound like any other basic overproduced Fueled by Ramen band. Also, whether Diru sings in English or Japanese you wouldn't recognize it anyway so I'd highly doubt that being any indication as to why they charted or not.

 

Additionally, Crossfaith, coldrain, Fact, and many other Japanese bands also have releases in the US and Europe, but since their genre isn't all that widely spread, neither will the sales of their stuff. Doesn't mean they don't have the fans to back the tours of course. I see this all the time since I'm a big post-hardcore/metalcore/whatever fan as well. The forum where I get my western stuff have coldrain/crossfaith/diru and are equally hyped for those than they are for the other releases. Crossfaith's been coming to a huge local festival for 3 or 4 years now and always has a huge crowd.

 

If we're solely talking VK then I'm sure it's not a surprise it never "broke through". I mean, it's VK.

 

Wanted to add that Japanese is also a very difficult language to get used to, so if people hardly ever hear it they'll always perceive it as "weird sounding". Meanwhile we're all used to Spanish, French, English and the likes so it's not as hard to adapt to songs sung in such languages.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Kaye

[GreatNorthernVK 183]

Can’t speak for everyone, but I can give my perspective on the Canadian side of things.

 

In 2006-2009, It was gaining momentum. People were spreading the music around, getting their friends interested. True, it was mainly “edgy” teens and young adults. The same general audience as post-hardcore/metalcore. 

 

And then the bands started playing Europe. Great, they’re finally reaching out. Good for them! Then US dates start coming, even a few tours and festivals.

 

Oh, wait, I think I see a Toronto date! Too bad most of us don’t live there, or were too young to afford a flight there.

 

And then came the wave of Central/South American dates...and we’re kind of left wondering what’s going on.

 

It’s not like opportunities didn’t exist. When presented with opportunities to tour any city other than Toronto, they were declined (see: Taste of Chaos 2008, Deftones tour Canadian leg).

 

For those that were used to at least 3 desireable North American and European bands coming through their cities every month, getting an average of one Visual Kei show every three years (and always in Toronto) just wasn’t enough to hold their interest.

 

I understand that it’s a pretty tall order to expect bands who were used to being confined to Japan to suddenly go on constant world tours. But the lack of interest on the management’s part is probably the biggest reason why most Canadian fans went back to western bands, or moved on to K-pop.

[jaymee 405]

I was around during the j-pop/j-rock/VK "boom" in the U.S., if you can even call the small subculture following it had for a short time that.

I feel like it really comes down to a combination of these three things:

 

1.) Lack of availability/promotion

When j-rock was at its "peak" popularity overseas, it was still somewhat difficult to purchase official releases outside of Japan, especially for indies acts. Most CD shops didn't ship overseas, if they even had English language sites at all. Labels and bands were late to utilize YouTube and SNS to promote their music, and introduction into the scene still relied heavily on music sharing networks or download sites. There was too little official information available/properly translated into English. By the time labels finally started getting around to reaching out to overseas audiences, people were moving on (to K-pop or in general). In general Japanese artists/labels just weren't committed to attracting overseas audiences or embracing any audience they did have.

 

2.) Touring issues

Most bands ended up performing at anime conventions, despite if they had any real connection to cosplay or an anime show. Much of the time these acts were being consumed by people who were curious about the artist because they were from Japan, with few actual fans assembled at one place in comparison. Exoticism may get people to see you once or twice, but it usually doesn't compute into CD sales, especially when the value of the yen was so high and the cost of Japanese music so expensive compared to Western music. These acts, and even the rare show booked outside of a con was subject to poor management, planning, or promotion. Often they were cancelled. Perhaps if more acts had gone Dir en grey's route of performing at festivals, it would have made a sizable enough movement to have an impact, but it's hard to say.

 

3.) The general demise of rock music as mainstream

Sure, rock will never get old. But rock is not nearly as mainstream as it was in the 90s and early 2000s. Even as certain indie rock sounds/artists flourish, it's a much different style than what a lot of j-rock (especially VK) is doing. So on top of less people listening to rock in general, there are less people interested in the style of rock Japan is making. Even I'm not as fond of most of the rock that's popular in Japan ATM (VK or generally speaking).

 

Generally speaking, a lot of overseas VK fans I knew at the time eventually moved on to K-pop. Unlike Japan, Korean artists/labels were much more insistent on pushing for international success. They also swooped in taking advantage of YouTube and SNS promotion where Japan didn't. While this lead to a flood in the market for some time, it also give the genre the momentum that j-rock (or j-pop tbh) never had, eventually making it a powerful force to be reckoned with it's turning into today.

[Traxan 148]

Most folks have already covered the major issues. Just to add a few things:

 

1) I don't think most bands want it. They can have a good career in Japan, making it in America and Europe would require a major effort that they don't want. And why bother? Japan is the size of California and most of the shows are around Tokyo. Why live out of a tour bus for 5-6 months when you can do a tour in 3 weeks and go home most nights?

 

2) I wonder if the lack of English is an issue. Look at Rammstein. They tour arenas in the US and they are singing in German. So a non-English band can make it. But in general the lack of English probably hurts.

 

That's why Lovebites have gained so much momentum and blown past Mary's Blood to be the top girl metal band. They all speak English, their lyrics are in English, and they openly say they want to play the US and Europe. They said they wanted to play Wacken, the biggest metal festival in the world. And they are on the bill this year. I know Dir En Grey played WOA and one or two other bands have been on as well but I've seen no such ambition out of Aldious, who are supposed to be the leaders of the girls metal movement.

 

3) The labels are no help. Sony and Victor block their videos outside of Japan. You can get around it if you use the Opera browser with its built-in VPN turned on but that's a headache.  Add to it the lack of promotional material in English, and you really have to make an effort to be a fan of JRock. And I'll tell you one of the biggest pissers to the guys on the Japanese Metal Forum: multiple versions of live DVDs. I've seen it several times. The basic DVD comes with X number of songs. Then there's the deluxe one, some times twice the price, with about a half dozen more songs. That's fucking greedy and no western band pulls that.

 

4) Japan's public image. Japan has a well-earned reputation for utter nutttiness. I think it was pro wrestling commentator Bobby Heenan who said of Japan "Either we bombed them too much or not enough." So then casual fans see a random VK band, or Babymetal, roll their eyes and think there's Japan being Japan. Channeled in the right direction and goofiness works. Maximum the Hormone have proved that.  Gacharic Spin are sorta gaining traction as well and they are fucking nuts.

 

5) I hate to say it but I suspect that racial ignorance plays a part. The fact is this is a white, English-speaking country and it's not very good at accepting foreigners, especially non-Europeans. Look at the trouble KPop artists have, and they WANT to make it here. SNSD, Psy, HyunA and 2NE1 all tried. BTS are running into all kinds of headwinds. It's not just music. Look at all the Asian actors who tried their luck in Hollywood and returned to China. Hate to say it but America just isn't very Asian-friendly.

 

6) I can't claim to understand the VK scene very well but I do know that in the metal scene, the anti-image tends to dominate. Just plain looking guys in tees and jeans. VK emphasizes the visual when that's the area of least emphasized element of metal today

[deedlitmurata 86]

In regards to Latin America, the language thing may not be that important, because many people listen to English music and many don't understand it, so not many can use this argument. However, I've noticed that Japanese music is often associated with Anime... so the reaction you get from common people when they listen to a song in Japanese is "oh, from which anime is it from?"  so it's difficult for people in LATAM to take it seriously as a music on its own, this is also why you will only hear this music in Anime conventions and events... besides that, the majority of LATAM countries are more into other genres of music that are not Rock, the rock itself is not the preferred genre, people mostly listen to tropical music, ballads, R&b, hip hop, reggeaton... etc. it's very sad, I think the level of education has something to do with it. There are some countries in the South cone where there's still some popularity for Rock, and this is where sometimes Jrock bands go to (Argentina, Chile Etc.)   

 

Also, right now the Kpop is very popular from what i've seen, maybe because it's easy to get access to it. In regards to Jrock, it's not easy for common people to find resources to listen to it, so this is probably why it's only the hard core fans that still listen to it. I try to expose my friends to it, and make "Jrock concert nights" to show them bands and stuff, and the reactions are always interesting.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

On 5/26/2018 at 8:48 PM, Traxan said:

 

 

5) I hate to say it but I suspect that racial ignorance plays a part. The fact is this is a white, English-speaking country and it's not very good at accepting foreigners, especially non-Europeans. Look at the trouble KPop artists have, and they WANT to make it here. SNSD, Psy, HyunA and 2NE1 all tried. BTS are running into all kinds of headwinds. It's not just music. Look at all the Asian actors who tried their luck in Hollywood and returned to China. Hate to say it but America just isn't very Asian-friendly.

 

This point is kind of the explanation of your second and fourth point as well. It's not that it's not in English, per say, as there are many hit songs that are not in English over the past few decades ("Despacito," "99 Red Balloons," "All the things she said,"  whatever people like by Rammstein, etc) but it's that it isn't being sung in a European language. 

 

From an American-centric standpoint, European things are considered fancy, refined, exotic enough to be just out of reach from the common man, but for whatever reason not considered to be inherently foreign. Maybe because many people here are 2nd ~ 4th generation American and still have ties to their ancestry (even if bastardized by 40~100 years of not actually being a part of that culture), or maybe because there is still some remnants of  post-war xenophobia that makes the average non-urbanite think "what is this g**k shit???" when coming across anything Asian that's more authentic than Orange Chicken.

 

That being said, "Gangnam Style" did essentially pave the way for Kp*p to become more mainstream here. I have even heard 2ne1 playing in stores while shopping, so it's not like that one song was some sort of Macarena-tier fluke. I highly, highly doubt a vkei song as the scene currently stands (or has stood in the past) will be able to break through like that. At best, to a normie it will be regarded as Kp*p's angsty gender-whatever cousin.  

[nekkichi 6043]

5 minutes ago, Peace Heavy mk II said:

I highly, highly doubt a vkei song as the scene currently stands (or has stood in the past) will be able to break through like that.

this is a pen could've had it all tbh

[seikun 317]

I don't think Visual Kei bands ever tried to break into the west; I think it was the west that was interested in their music and managed to bring them over to the west. For most VK bands it was quite a surprise their music had an audience outside Japan.

 

 

[NICKT 147]

I've only got an anecdote that was hearsay, but when my mother was on holiday in America she was in a Hot Topic and there was a song playing, she told me later that she thought I'd like it and knowing it was Hot Topic I straight up and said no, explaining that I was hardcore into my Japanese or nothing phase, she said it was Japanese and that when she asked the girl working the register they had to go out back and write it down.

D'espairsRay, btw, just for closure on the story I guess.  the disband still hurts

Also for way of conversation, there has to be some credence to the easy way wins out? If you can click a youtube video of a Kpop song and it'll take you to another Kpop song, yadda yadda. The moment you have to do any digging you're bound to lose a big portion of people, it was easy for us who probably ended up here after lurking a blogspot or two but for most people it never really dawned on them that good music rests beyond the horizon of myspace.

I spent a day yesterday trying to find a release by Hilcrhyme and I just couldn't, unless through a second-hand purchase, I literally couldn't find it online digitally anywhere and 99% of places had it out of stock. I ended up finding a poor recording of it playing on a phone on youtube and it's been my jam all night, but man I felt like giving up on it and just going back and listening to my United States of Whatever instead.

[geist 227]

Language barrier and the fact Japanese Popular music largely copies musical trends in the West.

 

As a rule of thumb: if a certain sound becomes popular in the west (like a type of pop music, or metal subgenre), it will become a popular trend in Japan 3-5 years later. This is why nu-metal suddenly became a thing years after it hit in the West. This is why metalcore suddenly became a thing years after it hit in the West. This is why hardcore suddenly became a thing years after it became popular again in the West.

 

 

[meat 135]

I think on top of everything that has been mentioned already, the visual scene is considered just a little scene within Japan's music industry. Sure, bands like X Japan, Luna Sea and DEG have paved the way for others to explore the non-Asian market and reach new fans. But vk bands are still seen as too obscure, weird and subversive to be pushed even within Japan when "alternative rock bands" usually mean mediocrity like Orange Range or Bump of Chicken, with Laruku being like waay out there. I am pretty sure that the government's Cool Japan" strategy of formally exporting Japan's pop culture does not include vk music because of this perception.

 

Then there is also a certain amount of prejudice and xenophobia within Japan that says gaijin fans simply won't get their music. So even if bands themselves want to promote their stuff overseas, their parent labels might not be willing to invest in the trouble.

[ahnchc 309]

I can't exactly speak for why it never broke through in the past—possibly making my post irrelevant—but I can give my opinion on why it's not breaking through now from an American standpoint.

 

a ) Problematic. The VK scene is somewhat notorious  amongst gya for being problematic and not exactly politically correct. Being PC has become a trend and VK certainly isn't following it. Examples: subtitle for ギャロ/THE GALLO's "DIAVOLO" album as well as their lyrics in general, not to mention the whole "menhera" trend that took off in VK at some point.

 

b ) Rock or any variation of metal isn't as popular as it once was. Pop, R&B, trap, and rap are all the rave and are trendy. While rock certainly hasn't died out, it definitely isn't as widespread as it was in the past.

 

c ) The widespread belief that Japanese men are more effeminate in appearance is definitely be a turn-off for some. America still has something of a toxic masculine mindset, and still associates femininity with homosexuality: therefore, anything that doesn't fit the "masculine" bill gets shunned and disregarded. This is a potential explanation as to why bands like BABYMETAL, LADYBABY, and ONE OK ROCK are gaining popularity while VK bands remain relatively unknown. This option is definitely the first complaint I hear when I try showing someone a VK band. "They look like chicks!", "Those aren't guys", "They have to be gay", etc, etc.

 

d ) Second most common complaint I hear: "They can't sing!", "They sing through their nose", "They're tune deaf". Self explanatory.

 

e ) Immature fandom. Once people see the portion of the fandom that's rampant with puerile teenage girls salivating over their faves and pretending like they're in a relationship with them, they'll probably make a run for it and never look back.