Petty hatred towards bands.

[shiroihana 182]

Yeah I'm not sure if this is the right spot to write this but I'm just going to write it anyway because I think it's a real issue that is worth talking about (since I haven't seen anyone ever talk about it). Perhaps it should be moved to one of the music sections since it is music related, but I wasn't sure how the rant would end. What do you think of indie visual kei bands? Or indie bands in general? I'm talking about really new young bands that may not have that much talent or skill, but still play their damn hearts out and pour their soul into the music. I'm talking about bands that belong to unpopular labels if at all, often comprised of a bunch of kids 18 or 19. I'm talking about people who really just got into the business. Think Jui from Vidoll during De-vine for example.

 

I've noticed for years now that there are music elitists /  snobs / parasites / whatever you want to call them in the VK community, and in musical communities in general. They're WAY too harsh when they criticize music, nearing delusion but are rarely called out on it.  The other day I listened to an indie band's final release, and it was full of passion and emotion, and the vocalist improved before that band disbanded (they were really bad at the beginning lol). The band I'm talking about is called ReivieЯ and the song is called Dears. Basically they had a final release that was really good in my opinion, and it was very emotional, then I went to read reviews of the album and everyone was talking absolute shite. People were saying that the release was bad and that the vocalist sucked or didn't improve (which is bullshit), and I was just thinking to myself something along the lines of "Wow. This release (Dears in particular) was full of so much emotion and I can really feel the music and enjoy this. I want to see you detractors put out something even half as good as this. Why do people just talk shit and ignore every good aspect of the release to say negative shit instead?".  The vocalist has since joined a band called Fixer and has improved  immeasurably since RevieЯ's first release but anyway I knew for a while now that music critics are often overly harsh to the point of just being plain delusional. They ignore every good aspect of a song just to shit on it because vocals might be a little off at one part, or for any other petty trivial reason.

 

I've noticed that these people tend to dislike nearly everything that isn't produced by extremely talented and highly trained artists. I thought that music was supposed to be an artform, a canvas to express emotion and feeling and share it with others. I didn't know that music was supposed to be monopolized by only extremely skilled musicians with very difficult to achieve levels of skill, innovation and talent. I was always surprised by this attitude. The irony is that here in America, a lot of the popular music that the majority of people listen to is music that requires little to no no talent aside for in some instances so-so vocal training. It is not hard to sing a really basic pop song, it just requires a little bit of basic vocal training. You don't really have to use many vocal techniques to sing basic pop songs. Singing in a good power metal band and actually sounding good requires far more technique, time, training, ambition, dedication and effort, yet people eat mainstream pop / hip hop up like it's the best music on the planet. With visual kei I have had the exact opposite experience. 

 

In the end I don't really know what this rant achieves, but this is coming from someone who has loved indies visual kei bands for a decade now. I think that the attitude that a lot of people have towards musicians, especially singers discourages them from releasing their covers to the public, because criticizing towards us is usually very harsh and unconstructive. 

 

Edited May 19, 2017 by shiroihana

[gekiai 231]

I've seen this occur ever since I got into visual kei, and that wasn't long ago. I've always appreciated indie bands, but I think many people have their reasons for disliking certain vocalists, bands, etc. (me included). But I understand what you're saying. 

 

Some harsh critiques are really out of ignorance, but let's remember art and music is  all subjective. I can see why some veterans have much higher standards for these newer bands, and I wish a lot of people can write the positives and negatives they see in something rather than bash, bash, and bash more. Even if bands lacks skills or have mediocre vocals (like many vk vocalists have actually....I mean. let's be real here), there is usually something good there for somebody.  So those people that truly enjoy their music, despite the lack of skills that may, objectively be there, should speak up a little louder. 

 

Also I think some of this blatant bashing is just because a band does not pander to someone's taste, and unfortunately, I may fall into that pit sometimes...but I'm in no way a snob. 

 

Generally, I think with any fandom were people have been in it a long while or are super serious, as most of us are here, they tend to come off snobbyish or close minded. So I think this phenomenon is unavoidable, and people (like me) with soft hearts should endure better and still talk freely about this music. Support these musicians with your money and your comments, likes, whatever, so they are not discouraged :))))

 

I'm a little emo that you mentioned Jui because I've seen him bashed here a ton and I love him to pieces.

By the way, who's that cutie in your sig?

[BackStabbath 321]

Hating a band because it's a "popular" thing to do is also a thing, and happen across almost every fan base. Like back when almost everyone hate Justin Bieber for being Bieber, or Nickelback regardless if they hear a song before or not.

 

Even if a hated band sounds nice they will still find something wrong with it. But like said above music is highly subjective and not everyone has the same taste and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

 

 

[shiroihana 182]

43 minutes ago, gekiai said:

I've seen this occur ever since I got into visual kei, and that wasn't long ago. I've always appreciated indie bands, but I think many people have their reasons for disliking certain vocalists, bands, etc. (me included). But I understand what you're saying. 

 

Some harsh critiques are really out of ignorance, but let's remember art and music is  all subjective. I can see why some veterans have much higher standards for these newer bands, and I wish a lot of people can write the positives and negatives they see in something rather than bash, bash, and bash more. Even if bands lacks skills or have mediocre vocals (like many vk vocalists have actually....I mean. let's be real here), there is usually something good there for somebody.  So those people that truly enjoy their music, despite the lack of skills that may, objectively be there, should speak up a little louder. 

 

Also I think some of this blatant bashing is just because a band does not pander to someone's taste, and unfortunately, I may fall into that pit sometimes...but I'm in no way a snob. 

 

Generally, I think with any fandom were people have been in it a long while or are super serious, as most of us are here, they tend to come off snobbyish or close minded. So I think this phenomenon is unavoidable, and people (like me) with soft hearts should endure better and still talk freely about this music. Support these musicians with your money and your comments, likes, whatever, so they are not discouraged :))))

 

I'm a little emo that you mentioned Jui because I've seen him bashed here a ton and I love him to pieces.

By the way, who's that cutie in your sig?

Jui is one of my favorite VK vocalists. He got so much better in each band he was in. In De-vine he sounded nothing like he did in Raisonne, and in Luinspear I noticed the most change, and then came Vidoll which was sorta like a more polished Luinspear . I see the change of his voice and I'm glad vocalists release music while they're still in their early provisional period.  Listening to an artist's first band and then the band they're most well known for side by side is sort of like looking at a before and after picture of someone's attempting to make some sort of transition or transformation.  In his early years Jui still sung with passion, and you could tell he was really determined to become something special. Jui could never in a million years sing a song like kimi wo nosete in any of his first few bands. I was using him as an example to highlight improvement, but I'm betting you knew that anyways. I'm just expanding more on the subject of Jui.  

Edited May 19, 2017 by shiroihana

[cvltic 1482]

I'm a person that would have told you Jey from ReivieЯ sucked and I'd happily tell you that he sucks in his new band too -- but I listen to UNDER FALL JUSTICE so literally what the fuck do I know about good singing? If you asked everyone who complained about a band to list all of their likes you would surely find something to balk at too, so you can't take it too much to heart. I think a lot of it is just looking for validation about your subjective opinion, especially in cases where people seem to be raving about a band that you simply cannot stand. And sometimes it's basically just a meme, particularly if the fans of that band are on the overzealous side. (See: MH's perpetual Lycaon circlejerk/counterjerk, resquiat in pace blackdoll).

In VK the trend towards major/highly produced bands is come and go and depends very much on the community you're in. There was a time on livejournal where it was a contest to find the most irrelevant do-minor kuso band and create a fully graphically kitted out community before anyone else could. If new fans could recognize the bandmen in your icons you were probably not elite enough. For every trend like that, there's a backlash somewhere.

From someone is still very much on the outside and only recently delurked, I noticed. MH in particular likes to be pretty scathing. But imo it's just a trial by fire to dissuade people who might be more inclined to blindly stan than engage in serious conversation.

[Tokage 5930]

monitoring this thread w/ popcorn for future developments

 

also... wait, what? there's a Jui hatedom out there? wtf? I always thought he was one of the more beloved, well-regarded singers in VK, at least during the Vidoll era. I always found him to stand out in a pretty positive way at least... Where are these haters? 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Tokage
also no offense but OP sounds like it was written after sb left a negative YT comment about their fav..........................

[shiroihana 182]

26 minutes ago, cvltic said:

I'm a person that would have told you Jey from ReivieЯ sucked and I'd happily tell you that he sucks in his new band too -- but I listen to UNDER FALL JUSTICE so literally what the fuck do I know about good singing? If you asked everyone who complained about a band to list all of their likes you would surely find something to balk at too, so you can't take it too much to heart. I think a lot of it is just looking for validation about your subjective opinion, especially in cases where people seem to be raving about a band that you simply cannot stand. And sometimes it's basically just a meme, particularly if the fans of that band are on the overzealous side. (See: MH's perpetual Lycaon circlejerk/counterjerk, resquiat in pace blackdoll).

In VK the trend towards major/highly produced bands is come and go and depends very much on the community you're in. There was a time on livejournal where it was a contest to find the most irrelevant do-minor kuso band and create a fully graphically kitted out community before anyone else could. If new fans could recognize the bandmen in your icons you were probably not elite enough. For every trend like that, there's a backlash somewhere.

From someone is still very much on the outside and only recently delurked, I noticed. MH in particular likes to be pretty scathing. But imo it's just a trial by fire to dissuade people who might be more inclined to blindly stan than engage in serious conversation.

The point you make is a point I should have addressed in my first post. People have unbelievable bias when they don't like something, and it goes far beyond the realm of music alone. I could dislike cheesecake and go around telling people that cheesecake is awful, asserting a subjective opinion as a fact when it clearly isn't. I don't see how Jey sucks because he can hit notes 98% of his could only dream of, but the point is when you don't like someone you won't acknowledge their positive traits, only their negatives if they even exist to begin with. Also UNDER FALL JUSTICE has a cool sound. I don't listen to them as much as Scarlet but they're definitely not bad! Perhaps I'm just a positive person and not picky enough like those wonderful people that  hate everything.

Edited May 19, 2017 by shiroihana

[Tokage 5930]

Also; 

A lot of 'alternative' music - and I don't just mean VK -  just isn't for everyone, to be frank.

I'm pretty sure I'm not entirely wrong when I say that a lot of western indie/post-punk/goth bands also have singers (or, hell, just an overall sound) ranging from 'a bit of an acquired taste' to 'just plain fucking horrible'. For example, I REALLY can't stand Wayne Coyne's  voice (guy from The Flaming Lips), even though I really do enjoy quite a lot of the actual music I've heard by his band, they're a band that's been around for ages, they know their stuff, and they've been pretty adored by critics at some point.

Still, at the same time I love vocalists like Amano Tonbimaru from Guruguru Eigakan or Sharaku from FLOPPY/Metronome, and both of them are from an objective standpoint pretty damn bad (or at least 'not very good'). Despite that, I still stan them and their sometimes pretty janky-sounding music... Because they do something relatively original that can't be found all that much anywhere else. I'm personally a lot more lenient towards younger bands w.r.t. QUALITY if they bring something that's at least mildly unique to the table instead of just going full derivative, but I know other people may think differently. Whichever side you're on, you just gotta roll w/ the punches and keep liking what you like despite what 'critics' or whoever say.

I feel like a lot of (professional) music ""criticism"", as w/ film ""criticism" and videogame """"""""""criticism"""""""""", is all pretty much largely based on a.) industry relations and people getting paid off to give good reviews or b.) old grumpy OVERLY elitist fucks like Christgau or whatever... Now, if I had to choose between those two, I'd probably still incline more towards the latter category, but I think both are misguided in their own way.

At the same time, though, I gotta say that the whole 'If you hate it so much, I'd like to see you try to release something better :^)'-argument is incredibly weak and on the same tier as food analogies in terms of their ability to utterly kill a conversation and render it meaningless, and it's usually the tell-tale mark of a stan. I don't really understand the mindset of people who treat an insult to a band they like as if someone broke into their house and took a shit on their very own bed tbh..

 

tl;dr: just like what you like regardless of what 'critics' say, as long as you don't act like a stan about it there shouldn't be any problems lol

[nekkichi 6043]

>but anyway I knew for a while now that music critics are often overly harsh to the point of just being plain delusional. 

 

if you suspect this, it's likely the correct assumption when "reviewers" is a stand-in for "bored internet weebz"

 

also irrational hate twds random bands was huge when undercode was around, and when nagoya-kei was more or less a Thing for a few years

both aggregated the worst kinds of elitist dipshits in their respective western fandom bubblez lmao

[shiroihana 182]

Harsh or not, you guys are all posting productive responses and I appreciate it. 

 

Also to Tokage:

 

" 'If you hate it so much, I'd like to see you try to release something better :^)'-argument is incredibly weak and on the same tier as food analogies in terms of their ability to utterly kill a conversation and render it meaningless, and it's usually the tell-tale mark of a stan. "

 

I wasn't really trying to use that as an argument and I'm sorry if it seemed that way. 

 

Of course, a person doesn't have to possess talent in order to criticize. If I fell for that type of logic I wouldn't be able to criticize Amy Schumer's leather special which was complete dog shit. The point was just that people rarely seem to grasp what it takes to get to a certain level, even if that level isn't super impressive. Perhaps it's a bad point, but it's a little difficult to articulate in the best way possible.

 

[Euthanasia 333]

Thank you for this topic. I agree with everything. This has always been a thing tho, seeing some of this attitude way back. 

 

On the other hand I was stanning Dir en grey when I was younger, and it was obivious that some in the fandom thought Dir was the number 1 band, and that every other band sucked lmao.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Euthanasia

[emmny 4139]

yeah people who think MH ppl are bitchy really haven't gone far into the /mu/ related circlejerkes of the net, trve black metal online communities (literal nazis sweetie...not unite haters or whatever) or pop stan twitter...THAT shit is insanity and compared to any of the three MH is an absolute fucking joke. Its tougher on jrawk fans or whatever because they get attached to their crossdressing lil babus (who are in real life hosts) bc they might be one of the few western fans on the net for x band and so they want to protect them from trolling or w/e.  I get it too....except i dont because i don't stan trash...BUT when i do i got a sense of humour about it (don't come for aiolin please im sensitive)

lets put it this way, the only way you can in any capacity get upset is because you think someone else's opinion matters...and its the net...so don't do that. you could come here and shit talk dir en grey all you'd want and i'd laugh in your face because you need your ears checked...and you can do the same for when i think ABC sound like genital warts because my opinion is stupid and its literally just that. not that talking deliberate smack is such a light thing...but...the world is ending and i get my kicks off calling MiA voldemort's whore cousin because it gets a giggle out of somebody (usually just me). also, tanuki is literally full of this stuff...just not remotely as funny *cackle*. respects to u for voicing ur opinion though!

 

I think the days of hating x band because of y are over, everyone's too depressed about jrawk to be an annoying fan. I will say that the bands that got a following on tumblr, especially mejibray, have been a target for a while simply because of the annoying fan reception. as of bands that have come later than that...i could foresee pentacum turning into a roast magnet but visual kei is dead haha!

Edited May 19, 2017 by emmny

[shiroihana 182]

4 minutes ago, Euthanasia said:

Thank you for this topic. I agree with everything. This has always been a thing tho, seeing some of this attitude way back. 

 

On the other hand I was stanning Dir en grey when I younger, and it was obivious that some in the fandom thought Dir was the number 1 band, and that every other band sucked lmao.

That's another thing. I noticed that if an indie band sounds just a little bit similar to a major band, people will reduce all of that indie band's work down to being a cheap ripoff / copy of said major band. It's phenomenal really, there's no logic to it whatsoever.

[suji 8317]

 

[WhirlingBlack 1043]

5 hours ago, shiroihana said:

That's another thing. I noticed that if an indie band sounds just a little bit similar to a major band, people will reduce all of that indie band's work down to being a cheap ripoff / copy of said major band. It's phenomenal really, there's no logic to it whatsoever.

 

This is problematic because the same argument are used by delusional fans to claim that a band is completely original when they're clearly not. I take Grieva as an obvious example. I don't mind them, and I think they can be fun and a nice listen on occasion, but when people say that they haven't ripped Dir en grey off in several tracks, they're deluded. You can literally sing the lyrics to DIARY on top of a karaoke version of JEALOUS and it would mostly fit.

 

As  for "hatred", I think that people just try to assert their opinions about a band and assume that everyone understands that the "in my opinion" is implied. I like several things other people deem terrible, and vice versa people enjoy a lot of things I think is absolutely horrendous. And since the VK fandom is so heavily invested in their bands, when opinions clash it tend to lead to argument and people taking it as a personal insult. I don't think this is going to change any time soon so we just have to do our best to argue WHY we do/don't like something and then let everyone have a constructive debate. 

[hiroki 5521]

20 minutes ago, WhirlingBlack said:

And since the VK fandom is so heavily invested in their bands, when opinions clash it tend to lead to argument and people taking it as a personal insult. I don't think this is going to change any time soon so we just have to do our best to argue WHY we do/don't like something and then let everyone have a constructive debate. 

 

Giving thought to why you like or don't like certain bands or music and then putting that opinion on the table--that's all well and good, and an essential part of any healthy music community. Most of the time though, I feel it's not so much the fact that there is someone out there who dislikes music that you love (these people exist no matter how popular/well-regarded a band is - and I think that's something everyone will have to accept); but rather, it's the way in which their opinions are expressed.

 

Anyone who has been on MH longer than 3 days would have realized that '"criticizing" a band here (for some people at least) means articulating your opinion in a way that's as offensive/tactless as the rules possibly allow for, even if the same point can be made as effectively without insulting anyone. And that's not counting posts that aren't even proper opinions (e.g. going into a thread of a band you simply don't care for and saying 'just disband now', or going into a disbandment thread and gloating over it). 

 

So I kinda understand where OP is coming from. For the most part MH has been a valuable resource and a great community, although at times I wish people would actually spend more time on the bands they enjoy and leave the others alone if they have nothing valuable to say rather than  just looking to provoke.

 

There's always the "let's just turn the other cheek" attitude, but while that's always appreciated (and necessary for staying sane on the internet), surely the responsibility for a mature/critical community doesn't lie squarely with these people if there are others bent on being intentionally inflammatory all the time.

[Nyasagi 259]

OP, notice the difference between the troll comments and personal opinion. I noticed many of these people just want to troll, because it's currently cool, or they dislike the fanbase of a certain band. Also, many fans just can't stand any form of criticism about their favorites, which isn't a good thing, either. Unless it's a troll, then simply ignore it, because they will say anything to keep provoking you.

 

I actually think that obsessive fangirls and people being rude to each other during the concerts is a bigger problem than some comments on the internet. We all can have our opinions, but we shouldn't do hateful and annoying shit to each other in the real life, since the group of fans is getting smaller and smaller.

[hyura 465]

I think it really comes down to what you expect when listening to music. Which aspects are most important for you to enjoy it. Is it originality? Talent? Sound and recording quality? Does the song comply with your personal genre preferences? And how do you rate these aspects? Your rating could be absolute. Comparing the song to everything you ever listened to in a vacuum. You don't care who made it and under which preconditions because all that matters is how much you enjoy it. Or maybe it is relative. You care about potential and compare to other releases from the same band or bands at the same point of their career because you enjoy seeing musicians grow. Both stances make perfect sense.

The first category of people might still listen to indies bands because they can be fresh and surprising and edgy but see no point in them if theres a larger band doing the same style but better and in high definiton. The judgement would be harsh accordingly.  The second category of people might even appreciate a little crappiness and overlook the plagiarism and basic recording quality and only get bored when there's no development anymore.

It's not petty, it's just a matter of perspective.

Edited May 19, 2017 by hyura

[ShTon 268]

Most of the time it's the way people voice their opinions, than said opinions themselves. Not only in music, but basically in every other field there's this problem, where someone can't say they simply don't like something, no matter if they choose to get into details why or not. They just have to be as offensive as possible about it in every possible place and mention it all the time. Like, we get it. You don't like stuff.

 

Other side of the problem is also bad. I mean, blindly praising stuff as the best in the universe, seeing absolutely no flaws in it and being offended when someone politely points them out. It's like people just can't meet in the middle. Why does it matter to them so much if random person on the internet likes/dislikes stuff they hate/love to the point of making fools out of themselves. >_>

 

On topic of indie bands, being too hateful on them makes no sense to me. Waste of time and energy on something that will either become big or disband within a year.

[Komorebi 2193]

9 hours ago, Tokage said:

Because they do something relatively original that can't be found all that much anywhere else. I'm personally a lot more lenient towards younger bands w.r.t. QUALITY if they bring something that's at least mildly unique to the table instead of just going full derivative

I'm with you on this. I am much more lenient towards younger bands, which is also why I'm cutting Aiolin a lot of slack merely for trying a different sound than the "mainstream vk sound".

 

9 hours ago, emmny said:

except i dont because i don't stan trash

 

Don't you stan trashy yet lovable VRZEL?

 

2 hours ago, hiroki said:

Anyone who has been on MH longer than 3 days would have realized that '"criticizing" a band here (for some people at least) means articulating your opinion in a way that's as offensive/tactless as the rules possibly allow for, even if the same point can be made as effectively without insulting anyone. And that's not counting posts that aren't even proper opinions

This. I love this forum, but.. this.

 

This is a great thread, I agree with most of the thoughts shared here, keep it going.

[chemicalpictures 1888]

I see no problem in harshly criticizing a band for what you OBJECTIVELY think is bad. It is not simply petty hate to say 98% of vk vocalists sucks balls. it IS true. Most of them does not have much technical skills, went through vocal training or something like that. Should that stop you from liking any band whatsoever? absolutely not.  Should any negative opinion affect you in any way? probably not, unless something that is stated is actually true. But that would be good, right? that's what opinions are for, to allow to see things you may have missed.
 

There's also the side that music is as much as an art as it is a business. Some people spend money, they are entitled to say something sucks because they haven't got back the satisfaction they expected for their money. And it's simple as that, something disappoints you, bash away. It's just an opinion, shouldn't be that much of a big deal in the big picture.

 

Of course there's trolling just for the sake of trolling, but that happens in everything in life, and to be quite honest, to be personally affected by the way someone talks about a band you like sounds really immature/white people problem...

 

I think in the end people should chill out. If every Deviloof fan got angry everytime people here make fun of the band, the forum would be made only of complaining threads.

Edited May 19, 2017 by chemicalpictures

[Zeus 7997]

This ties in nicely with a Facebook message I received yesterday. The lurker reading this can consider this my unofficial response, but I will get back to her shortly. Her question revolved around how to get started in the community, because from the outside looking in we can be a little off putting. But our attitudes towards music, especially Japanese music, is unique within the scene and to the Internet. We cater to an older, more seasoned demographic who know what they like and what they don't, and who really appreciate it when people take the time to explain their opinions. Other places centering around J-Rock are content with agreeing to disagree on a much more superficial level, eschewing any type of confrontation because of how easily it can slip into drama. I have a different philosophy regarding standing one's ground in a conversation, and I moderate with that philosophy in mind. I step in when things get too spicy, but overall I'm content to let two or more members plumb the depths of their differences in opinion because that's where the most interesting discussion lies. Conversation dries up quickly at the oasis of agreement, but I've had members sign up here solely to write reviews to disagree with mine. That's something that even five years ago, I would not have seen.

 

There are two extremes of fans, but as was said earlier these extremes are in every scene. We are a much smaller community, so those extremes appear exaggerated. I've witnessed fans who hate everything just to be contrarian, and I've witnessed fans with no concept of music they don't or cannot enjoy. Most members here fall into neither one of those extremes, remaining somewhere in the middle, even if we all gravitate to one extreme. The negative opinions prevail because of three main factors:

 

1. it's easier to be negative and engaging than positive and engaging (without seeming like a shill)
2.  contrarian reviews are more likely to bring people to the table to argue back
3. those with positive opinions about music just don't share them as often

Like what you like, and if someone here writes a review that you disagree with, write a positive one back! It's the best way to keep a good atompshere where everyone feels like they belong, start deep discussion, and promote JRock at the same time.

 

[The Bread Wolf 231]

12 hours ago, hiroki said:

Anyone who has been on MH longer than 3 days would have realized that '"criticizing" a band here (for some people at least) means articulating your opinion in a way that's as offensive/tactless as the rules possibly allow for, even if the same point can be made as effectively without insulting anyone. And that's not counting posts that aren't even proper opinions (e.g. going into a thread of a band you simply don't care for and saying 'just disband now', or going into a disbandment thread and gloating over it).

Some of us just have an extremely dark sense of humour that comes out best when expressing opinions in an edgy manner.

 

All you with your popcorns out, you are also part of these people. You like the drama edginess creates.

 

Not that I count myself amongst either of those people. I mean, I don't even express my opinions on this forum. I have effectively learned to live inside my own little headbubble with all the bands that I love inside and all the bands that I dislike as well as every other opinion in the world outside. Trust me, it's the happiest place in the world.

[raphael 49]

On 5/19/2017 at 1:21 AM, emmny said:

yeah people who think MH ppl are bitchy really haven't gone far into the /mu/ related circlejerkes of the net, trve black metal online communities (literal nazis sweetie...not unite haters or whatever) or pop stan twitter...THAT shit is insanity and compared to any of the three MH is an absolute fucking joke.

3

 

I agree with everything you said, but I think this here is a little bit different, though. 4chan has the whole anonymity thing going for it, so of course it's going to be a volatile cesspool. People can say whatever they want, no matter how outlandish and crass, and have no repercussions. Obviously you don't need to have any sort of personal identity tied to you on MH, but everyone can comb through your post archive. You accumulate a history. Everyone has their own little persona. 

 

6 hours ago, The Bread Wolf said:

I don't even express my opinions on this forum. I have effectively learned to live inside my own little headbubble with all the bands that I love inside and all the bands that I dislike as well as every other opinion in the world outside. Trust me, it's the happiest place in the world.

1

 

Ultimately, this is my philosophy. I know what I like, I know what I dislike, and I know what sounds good to me. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, and really, people are stubborn with their opinions, especially when it comes to music. And unfortunately, I'm one of those people that has a hard time talking about music. It's difficult for me to describe what I like or dislike in a song, so sometimes I feel left out on the discussions anyway, but occasionally I can chime in on things I feel like I can concisely and confidently talk about. It's a happy medium. Less drama, fewer toes stepped on. I like it.

 

A lot of what I wanted to say in response OP has already been said, but I will throw out that I love this website, I really do. I think it's great that we can have this town-hall-esque get together where we can talk about this dumb genre of music that seemingly only a handful of people like. But admittedly, yes, sometimes it can get a little frustrating when people are being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian or are only contributing to a discussion to bait and provoke people. But I think it's important to note that internet culture has changed exponentially within the past half-decade as well. It's become a normality to express things in a satirical, flat, curt-and-to-the-point manner, almost to the point of being insulting. Lest we forget that it's hard to convey emotion through text. I could be wrong, but with short-form media (twitter, microblogging [i.e., tumblr]) becoming more popular, well-thought-out and long-form discussion is phasing out, and you're going to see more troll, "just disband lol" comments more frequently.

 

However, this whole conversation, in the context of any form of media, is murky and wading in incredibly grey waters. As people have mentioned above, music is an extremely subjective thing. At the end of the day, this is what it boils down to, I think.

 

Also:

 

On 5/19/2017 at 1:21 AM, emmny said:

visual kei is dead haha!

 

 

Spoiler

hope that all made sense and was coherent, i'm exhausted lol.

 

Edited May 20, 2017 by raphael

[platy 3018]

I'm quite a grumpy person and if I hear something I don't like I'm gonna point it out. I don't see how mindlessly sucking a band's dick is okay, so sometimes I just throw in my opinions to make people use their brains on an argument against me ( rarely happens because people don't like discussion nowadays). Most of the time I just say what I think though without expecting anything, I'm not a musical expert so my opinions might come across as ignorant or simplistic .

But when it comes to petty hate, well, I listen to many bands that would be considered 'shit'. But when I hear a band that has just re-hashed the same chords/structure of a song that I've heard a million times it can really annoy me, because it seems they have put no effort and it makes me think "why the hell are you here?" In that case I tend to spew some petty hate here and there but... it's something you get used to ignoring if you've been in the community for a while. 

 

also sometimes a vocalist's face can trigger the pettiness inside me, you know, when people just have an annoying ass face? And it's paired with shitty music. I will lowkey hate on them. Example Wagamama Paradeis' Mashiro and the vocalist from Raid.