Dir en grey

[Pretsy 1343]

4 hours ago, Reiko said:

Reading tons of Shinya discussion in this thread, so I thought I'd chime in as a drummer and a huge diru fan. 

 

Nobody in this band is particularly great at their instruments/abilities so its tough to really single Shinya out as far as song composition goes.  I think, given that despite whatever you think diru is now, they started in the golden time of v kei.  This to me means that all of things that may seem like overused or stupid tropes in song composition where just really reiterations of the trends of that time.  I always think that's what made diru so great. They weren't breaking any ground when they came out, they just took the best parts of the scene up to that point and nailed it in a huge way.  So all those things that people say about Shinya's boring or uninspired drumming have always been the things I love about his drumming.  He had his versions of the that distinct v kei style. 

 

As far as Shinya's recent stuff, I think Ouroboros was his best work as modern drummer.  I've always felt that Vinushka was his best work and Ware, Yami, Tote a close second. 

By coming back to Dir's record of Shinya's earlier, not-necessarily-proggy drumming style, I saw his restrained beats and fills as something which would support the harmonious entirety of Dir's arrangements. Unfortunately now his post-MOAB drumming seems to be the kind of shoddy attempt to overtake each and every tom or china whenever any long or medium-length piece comes by - think of little kids who listen to newer prog metal acts for the first time and attempt to emulate all of that into one drumline...that would be Shinya as I see him on Uroboros or DSS or ARCHE to some extent.

 

"B-B-But he is basically influenced by Neil Peart - he conveys them well on Vinushka, Ware, Yami Tote.. etc. etc.!"

 

To clarify what I meant

 

 

No matter how campy prog performance this may be, even heavier acts who would at least respect their influences like Neil Peart (the guy above) or any other drumming powerhouse, REALIZE that they still have a band to follow and there's A HUGE TASK behind all of that - you can do all kinds of fills you want but make sure that they CONTRIBUTE to the song as whole and not just distract or go complex for the sake of being complex (i.e. anything Dir when we question *weird* songs).

 

Following and trying to get the gist of songs like Rinkaku had a huge eye-opening effect on me after I realized how much of wank has been really involved in this song which could do better with a few tracks rather than multi-tracked walls of noise.

 

Shinya HAD a record of following and contributing something interesting to DIR arrangements in a precise, moderate but tasteful manner - but where did it go?

 

 

This is moderately complex but yet still, very supportive drumline without any unnecessary, distracting frills. Pay attention to his drumming  - this moderate approach would ease his playing to the metronome rather than programming his drums and consequently going severely off a la Dum Spurdo Spärde (especially during Kaoru/Die compositions - Toshiya/Kyo comps can be pardoned like Dreambox or Shitataru)

 

Justsayingthisagain.gif

 

tl;dr - respect the rhythmic backbone of the band - don't overshadow it.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Alroy

[Ro plz 1290]

https://vk.com/video-35600031_456239389

 

Bonus Live of the UTAFUMI DVD

https://vk.com/video-35600031_456239390

Utafumi scenes of recording.

[Reiko 75]

19 hours ago, Carmelzors said:

By coming back to Dir's record of Shinya's earlier, not-necessarily-proggy drumming style, I saw his restrained beats and fills as something which would support the harmonious entirety of Dir's arrangements. Unfortunately now his post-MOAB drumming seems to be the kind of shoddy attempt to overtake each and every tom or china whenever any long or medium-length piece comes by - think of little kids who listen to newer prog metal acts for the first time and attempt to emulate all of that into one drumline...that would be Shinya as I see him on Uroboros or DSS or ARCHE to some extent.

 

"B-B-But he is basically influenced by Neil Peart - he conveys them well on Vinushka, Ware, Yami Tote.. etc. etc.!"

 

To clarify what I meant

 

 

No matter how campy prog performance this may be, even heavier acts who would at least respect their influences like Neil Peart (the guy above) or any other drumming powerhouse, REALIZE that they still have a band to follow and there's A HUGE TASK behind all of that - you can do all kinds of fills you want but make sure that they CONTRIBUTE to the song as whole and not just distract or go complex for the sake of being complex (i.e. anything Dir when we question *weird* songs).

 

Following and trying to get the gist of songs like Rinkaku had a huge eye-opening effect on me after I realized how much of wank has been really involved in this song which could do better with a few tracks rather than multi-tracked walls of noise.

 

Shinya HAD a record of following and contributing something interesting to DIR arrangements in a precise, moderate but tasteful manner - but where did it go?

 

 

This is moderately complex but yet still, very supportive drumline without any unnecessary, distracting frills. Pay attention to his drumming  - this moderate approach would ease his playing to the metronome rather than programming his drums and consequently going severely off a la Dum Spurdo Spärde (especially during Kaoru/Die compositions - Toshiya/Kyo comps can be pardoned like Dreambox or Shitataru)

 

Justsayingthisagain.gif

 

tl;dr - respect the rhythmic backbone of the band - don't overshadow it.

Wow I love Strangiato, actully learned the studio version once. ( My dad was a bass player in Rush cover bands haha)

No I totally get what your saying. I've often thought the same about the non stop fills and lack of a real flow through the newer stuff. I should have said I was mainly thinking  about pre-oroboros

when I typed that. 

Honestly they are a totally different band to me now after Oroboros. I really loved a few songs on that album, but really I just started mentally separating them from their old stuff.  
And while I'm at it...DSS was bad to me but I still listened moderately, Arche was the only album I flat out didn't like.  

Edited September 21, 2016 by Reiko

[DogManX 179]

What pissed me off most were (and are) fans who'd say what a great drummer he is because he's doing "complex" stuff and has such a big drumkit. Yeah, when you compare Shinya to most of what came out during the 2000s in j-rock ... he seems like a fucking pioneer on drums. But he isn't. His drumming during the old times was average.. but good enough and especially fitting for the style. Most of what came after it though ... wasn't that much. As I too see it, there was alot of pretend involved. Shinya signed himself up for a task that was too big for him. His "fills" do have a certain characteristic of trying to emulate a certain style of pattern. With connotations on TRYING. And what made it worse was the fact that he didn't seem to be motivated enough to practice. And WHEN he finally managed to bring up full, complex fills (like the Kiri To Mayu remake), guess what happened on stage. He screwed it up. Like in many other cases when relatively simple patterns were involved, though.

 

A certain guitarist of a certain band called Rammstein once said, "a band begins to exist on stage, everything else is theory". There couldn't be a better example than shinya.

 

BUT my faith in him was restored from watching the late budokan tape. He was doing well all through. That's what happens when you practice.

 

It's really a coincidence when I browse this site after being absent like half a year and peope are still talking about my favourite issue

 

 

 

Concerning the new song, I kinda have mixed feelings. it's not bad, but I get a real uninspired feeling from it. It just sounds like a plain J-rock song being quadruple-layered on guitars and vocals., the random pauses don't change that feeling. But other than that it's quite enjoyable.

[Wicked Teletubby 528]

dude's obviously really tired of our shit.

 

[StriderSubzero 53]

On 10/13/2016 at 8:50 AM, DogManX said:

What pissed me off most were (and are) fans who'd say what a great drummer he is because he's doing "complex" stuff and has such a big drumkit. Yeah, when you compare Shinya to most of what came out during the 2000s in j-rock ... he seems like a fucking pioneer on drums. But he isn't. His drumming during the old times was average.. but good enough and especially fitting for the style. Most of what came after it though ... wasn't that much. As I too see it, there was alot of pretend involved. Shinya signed himself up for a task that was too big for him. His "fills" do have a certain characteristic of trying to emulate a certain style of pattern. With connotations on TRYING. And what made it worse was the fact that he didn't seem to be motivated enough to practice. And WHEN he finally managed to bring up full, complex fills (like the Kiri To Mayu remake), guess what happened on stage. He screwed it up. Like in many other cases when relatively simple patterns were involved, though.

 

Speaking as a drummer, I had a lot of respect for Shinya when I started learning and I do think a lot of the criticism about him is unfair. He can't blast, or at least we've not heard him do that, and as such would never be able to play in a death metal band... but Dir en grey aren't a death metal band. Shinya's approach very rarely comes across as that of a metal drummer; it sounds more like what a pop-rock drummer that was exposed to some prog would come up with. That's not a bad thing overall and is just one of the things that makes DEG a unique-sounding band. 

 

I don't mean to sound pretentious because I don't mean it that way at all, but I listen to a lot of types of music, and I've yet to hear anyone else that approaches rhythmic sections the way Shinya does. One thing I've always noticed about Shinya's parts is the odd snare placement. A good example of this is the intro and verse patterns in "Shitatarou mourou." It isn't until that pre-chorus around 1:00 when it opens up that the rhythm stop sounding like it's falling over itself (I don't necessarily mean this in a bad way). It's possible that the odd phrasing in those parts was just Shinya following the rhythms of what the guitars are doing, but I personally would never have approached those sections in that way and would have written something entirely different. 

 

Even in some of their older songs he had a tendency to take a section that most would play more straightforward (like placing the snare on 2 and 4 for example) and make it sound different by where he would place the snare in the phrase. "Itoshisa wa fuhai nitsuki" on WTD comes to mind. I think that's a genius rhythm section with what the bass and drums are doing, even in its simplicity. In the verse he puts the last snare hit at the end of each phrase on the "and" of 4; that's really strange but works very well and changes the groove a lot.

 

This does cut both ways, because for instance on the chorus of "Rinkaku," that droning 8th note kick drum pattern is just terrible IMO. Playing that live he never seems to get it quite right and it makes it sound sloppy; and no one, unless they're a robot, could get it exactly right every time. He should have written something less dense and more forgiving to errors.

Edited November 30, 2016 by StriderSubzero

[matthazell 35]

https://www.facebook.com/129584844117163/photos/a.131690323906615.1073741977.129584844117163/211358282606485/?type=3&theater

 

my dude lookin like Sho Asakawa now lol

Edited December 7, 2016 by matthazell

[Wicked Teletubby 528]

no longer available but it's safe to say dude's back to black again.

[bukimi_heishi 62]

Sooo I am wanting to buy some things from Aknot, but I am no longer a member and don't want to go through the hassle of trying to resign up.  So, I am wondering what is the best/easiest/cheapest way for a person not in Japan to order from Aknot? 

[Ro plz 1290]

@bukimi_heishiJapan discoveries. 

[toto 33]

 

[Bear 1817]

On 30.11.2016 at 8:05 PM, StriderSubzero said:

 

He can't blast, or at least we've not heard him do that, and as such would never be able to play in a death metal band...

 

Wait, what? You have to know how to blast to be in a death metal band? I didn't know that and I've been into death metal for 15+ years now. There's a shitload if mid-tempo and slow(er) death metal bands out there without blast beats and god knows what where Shinya would do just fine. Technically speaking of course.

 

But as a drummer and band member I've always looked upon him as the weakest link in Dir en grey, especially in recent time with Uroboros, Rinkaku and Sustain the Untruth. I don't hate the drumming on these releases and I'm not really annoyed by it, but I've always felt like it was just there, and he does these things just for the sake of doing them, not because it adds anything cool/interesting/special to the songs.

[d4rkie 5]

13 hours ago, toto said:

 

 

hmm… I wonder what is it (insta-buy if it's an album/single).

[Saishu 1589]

On 12/31/2016 at 1:22 PM, Bear said:

 

Wait, what? You have to know how to blast to be in a death metal band? I didn't know that and I've been into death metal for 15+ years now. There's a shitload if mid-tempo and slow(er) death metal bands out there without blast beats and god knows what where Shinya would do just fine. Technically speaking of course.

 

But as a drummer and band member I've always looked upon him as the weakest link in Dir en grey, especially in recent time with Uroboros, Rinkaku and Sustain the Untruth. I don't hate the drumming on these releases and I'm not really annoyed by it, but I've always felt like it was just there, and he does these things just for the sake of doing them, not because it adds anything cool/interesting/special to the songs.

 

I've probably said this already, but Shinya was perfectly fine until DEG ventured into the "heavy progressive" genre and he was then tasked with matching the speed and aggression of the music with his drumming. Shinya can blast, he just doesn't do the extreme blasting you hear in tons of metal these days (there are different types of blast beats after all, and technically he's been blasting since the beginning). And that's fine, because I feel like blast beats should be flourishes here and there, not the main rhythm of the song. 

 

I think he's improved in the last year or so, but as I've also mentioned before, he mostly only falls apart live. And Shinya himself has said as much. 

[kawa35 17]

On 31/12/2016 at 6:55 PM, toto said:

 

 

That could be very interesting ... Home to hear from them soon !!

[StriderSubzero 53]

On 12/31/2016 at 1:22 PM, Bear said:

 

Wait, what? You have to know how to blast to be in a death metal band? I didn't know that and I've been into death metal for 15+ years now. There's a shitload if mid-tempo and slow(er) death metal bands out there without blast beats and god knows what where Shinya would do just fine. Technically speaking of course.

 

But as a drummer and band member I've always looked upon him as the weakest link in Dir en grey, especially in recent time with Uroboros, Rinkaku and Sustain the Untruth. I don't hate the drumming on these releases and I'm not really annoyed by it, but I've always felt like it was just there, and he does these things just for the sake of doing them, not because it adds anything cool/interesting/special to the songs.

 

That's fair, but nearly all contemporary death metal uses blast beats of this sort: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4KNXi-SWWc (0:23 - 0:26)

 

I suppose it isn't necessarily a requirement but you have to go back to like early Autopsy to find a period in death metal where there isn't blasting at all. I think you just have a broader definition of death metal than I do, which is fine; musical genres can be somewhat subjective anyway.

[Wicked Teletubby 528]

on January 24th, 1997 the band DEATHMASK has played its very first show at Nagano Live House.

 

that makes today a DIR EN GREY's twentieth anniversary.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Wicked Teletubby

[Euronymous 325]

 1997 lives

 

[Seelentau 884]

On 7.12.2015 at 8:00 PM, WhirlingBlack said:

 

This has been a long process for me, I've been working on it for years, but I managed to find an obscure old magazine clipping in an auction which I bought some years back but never got onto reading properly ("Groove Line vol-29" from December 1998) where a setlist is posted which gives the name as Ranshishoku.

 

I actually took the liberty of scanning it just so we can get rid of all doubt on the subject. 

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62973737/ranshishoku.jpg

 

 

 

 

Heya, do you still have this scan? :x

 

Oh and to the other users here, do you guys have anything dir en grey-related from the early years 97-02? Any information on songs, files, scans etc? I'm currently building some kind of database and any support would be much appreciated

Edited March 22, 2017 by Seelentau

[Nowhere Girl 189]

It's coming up to six months since they debuted that new song live. I imagine we'll get some kind of release news soon, unless they're not planning on a second single.

[emmny 4139]

im so fucking wet over the mode of DSS bass mix....finally justice for toshibaby

[Saishu 1589]

On 4/2/2017 at 1:45 PM, emmny said:

im so fucking wet over the mode of DSS bass mix....finally justice for toshibaby

 

He sounds even better on mode of vulgar. 

[emmny 4139]

14 minutes ago, Saishu said:

 

He sounds even better on mode of vulgar. 

amen

[Pretsy 1343]

These mode of...DVDs kinda indicate which albums work better in the live setting

 

And I must say it is anything but DSS for that matter. VULGAR pretty much encompasses what Dir are live-wise. Those lives prove that.

[Saishu 1589]

3 hours ago, Carmelzors said:

These mode of...DVDs kinda indicate which albums work better in the live setting

 

And I must say it is anything but DSS for that matter. VULGAR pretty much encompasses what Dir are live-wise. Those lives prove that.

 

I agree, the Mode of Vulgar show is fantastic. I appreciate that it seems like they approached the DSS material by pacing themselves as well as figuring out which of the million overdubbed studio parts sound best when limited to two live guitars, but some of this stuff still sounds messy. Decayed Crow and Diabolos really just do not work, and I fear my beloved Different Sense is stricken with the same fate. Surprisingly, Utafumi sounds awesome live. 

 

The Kisou shows are fine. This is the first time I've found Pink Killer to be tolerable, and I like the weird "off" way they played Zomboid. It's a shame they settled on playing the new version of Karasu though. 

 

Vulgar is tight as fuck though, and Toshiya is a beast on this material. I'm actually kind of excited for a Mode of Withering to Death. Probably my least favorite DEG album, but I think the band's current approach to their music will benefit the material greatly. I feel like Marrow will be pretty good too. Macabre is next though. Maybe they can make Audrey a good song!