Your opinion on "no pictures" policy on overseas lives

[chemicalpictures 1888]

2 minutes ago, JukaForever said:

Meh just respect the band's wishes, not that hard

 

the view from the other side: meh, just respect the fans culture and wishes, who paid a truckload of money (I mean, A TRUCKLOAD as in almost 40% of our minimum wage for the most basic regular ticket) for them to come here in our country,and let us take a couple of pictures, not that hard

[JukaForever 758]

40% of your yearly wage? IDK I don't think would spend that much even if that was my fave artist. Even if I were to, I wouldn't fuck up the experience just for a picture. 

 

I don't know what fan culture you are talking about. What goes on in this fan culture?

 

I just know not to go against a performer's wishes. It is their show after all, maybe they just find the cameras disrespectful.

[chemicalpictures 1888]

8 minutes ago, JukaForever said:

40% of your yearly wage? IDK I don't think would spend that much even if that was my fave artist. Even if I were to, I wouldn't fuck up the experience just for a picture. 

 

I don't know what fan culture you are talking about. What goes on in this fan culture?

 

I just know not to go against a performer's wishes. It is their show after all, maybe they just find the cameras disrespectful.

 

lol no, brazilian monthly minimum wage. Kinda sucks to be in a 3rd world country and like japanese bands at the same time, lol

 

Culture as in, everywhere in the world we can take pics. Why wouldn't a japanese band adapt to the western culture that embraced them and allowed then to do a nice world tour? It's probably management decision, a poorly thought one, as in most that involves vkei. But in the end, thing is: They are here for us as much as we are there for them, but they sure as hell need fans much more than fans need them. So a little courtesy with people that actually makes their work viable would go a long way...

[frayed 404]

I agree that the ocean of phones and screen is super annoying; on the other hand, I also agree that no pictures for VIP people is kind of bullshit considering. I mean even if I personally don't love them all that much (I'm about as photogenic as an ameba), for the amount of money that the VIP tickets went for it should at least be an option.

[Thedane 176]

Culture or not, it's their show, at least try to respect something the band asks you to.

[emmny 4139]

ion give a fuck about their wishes; they can police their japanese audience all they want, it won't work to the same extent here.

[gekiai 231]

 

@emmny with that kind of attitude, do you think they would be propelled to perform overseas anymore?? I really do think you should show some respect and follow their wishes. I'd think you can live without a picture.

 

Yesterday at the Dallas live, no one was taking any pictures or was recording and we still had an AWESOME time.

 

Also, they had professionals and staff taking pictures and recording, so not all the experience will be lost.

 

In response to the entirety of this topic, I don't think it's to save face or image, but rather they want profit from professional pictures and recordings, and not have all these crummy recordings lingering around online.

 

I also think it depends on bands and not all VK bands. I went to see Dir En Grey and few years back and they didn't give a crap about images and recording.

Edited April 26, 2016 by gekiai

[Euthanasia 333]

14 hours ago, JukaForever said:

Meh just respect the band's wishes, not that hard

 

This.

 

Besides, when I saw a gig in Japan there were "no photo" rules - they even announced it before the live. Everyone agreed to it expect two other girls from overseas who took out their phones anyway and tried to take pictures and well, got told by japanese fans not to so. So it does happen in Japan too.

 

Edited April 26, 2016 by Euthanasia

[Delkmiroph 1649]

14 hours ago, chemicalpictures said:

 

lol no, brazilian monthly minimum wage. Kinda sucks to be in a 3rd world country and like japanese bands at the same time, lol

 

Culture as in, everywhere in the world we can take pics. Why wouldn't a japanese band adapt to the western culture that embraced them and allowed then to do a nice world tour? It's probably management decision, a poorly thought one, as in most that involves vkei. But in the end, thing is: They are here for us as much as we are there for them, but they sure as hell need fans much more than fans need them. So a little courtesy with people that actually makes their work viable would go a long way...

 

I agree in some parts. But u just can see the band in concert and then nothing more is sucks same if u have VIP ticket. About bands like the gazettE is really impossible take pics or something else, because is one band that sell all to money and have one pic with them is almost impossible. (possible that they feel so famous like hollywood stars but without paparazzi)

 

You have two options: Go to concert and accept this way that i really hate or better buy one live DVD and watch in your house that is so much better. 

 

maybe in future these bands follow this way to take pics with fans...

 

[chemicalpictures 1888]

20 hours ago, Euthanasia said:

 

This.

 

Besides, when I saw a gig in Japan there were "no photo" rules - they even announced it before the live. Everyone agreed to it expect two other girls from overseas who took out their phones anyway and tried to take pictures and well, got told by japanese fans not to so. So it does happen in Japan too.

 

 

That's the whole point. @emmny answered it perfectly, they can enforce it all they want on the japanese audience, but it simply won't work here in the west.

 

I find it curious that vkei fans have some kind of "god and peasant" relationship with their favorite bands... Why would we abide to every rule just because they say so? why would anyone idolize a band like they deserve more respect than the fans, the consumers? they are not doing us any favor by doing live shows, y'know?

 

but each to it's own, I guess

Edited April 27, 2016 by chemicalpictures

[Euthanasia 333]

2 minutes ago, chemicalpictures said:

 

That's the whole point. @emmy answered it perfectly, they can enforce it all they want on the japanese audience, but it simply won't work here in the west.

 

I find it curious that vkei fans have some kind of "god and peasant" relationship with their favorite bands... Why would we abide to every rule just because they say so? why would anyone idolize a band like they deserve more respect than the fans, the consumers? they are not doing us any favor by doing live shows, y'know?

 

but each to it's own, I guess

 

I don't know, but if a band ask me to not take any photos I usually respect them enough to not to take any pictures? It's like that with everything.. If someones ask not to, why do it? I would've understand if they didn't say anything and then got upset that people were taking photos but if they actually ask not to.. Then I don't see the problem. I don't think they try to enforce anything... And well, I'd like to be kind to the bands  I like, especially if they do a oversea tour since everyone can't go to Japan and see them. And if the band suddenly decides to stop touring because fans can't listen or respect them - then you've destroyed for other fans. Maybe your actions doesn't effect you as much and maybe you think that the band are idiots for being so sensitive, but it effects other fans and I don't see why that would be worth it. 

 

And not doing favors by doing live shows? I think it depends who you ask, for some music is very ver very very  important and I, personally feel happy when I've the chance to see my favorite band and I am always thankful if the band decides to come to my country /or in this case near my country. If they want to play the music I like, then I can respect them enough not to force a camera up their faces and take unflattering pictures and spreading them online to laugh at - like some people do.

[Takadanobabaalien 3607]

I'm honestly just waiting for this to turn into a topic about Kiwamu.

[desparejo86 160]

It's not just Japanese bands, some western artists have this policy and I LOVE it.

 

When I saw Danzig last year, it was a strict policy of no cell phones or cameras whatsoever. Anyone who took their phone out of their pocket to text, browse, sneak a photo, etc, was thrown out of the gig without a refund. It was stated on the ticket, but after a few morons tried to sneak shots, anyone who didn't get the idea already got it.

 

It gave the gig a COMPLETELY different feel and I enjoyed it. It added so much to the show; when the lights would cut out, when the spotlight would hit one band member, etc, there were no cell phones on all over the gig lighting it up and making you notice stuff going on elsewhere. 

 

I hope all major bands eventually adopt this practice.

[platy 3018]

I think it's a great rule to have. There's nothing worse than going to a gig where hundreds of people in front of you have their phone out, recording, taking pictures, some even on facebook. The band came all the way to your country and all you care about is looking at your phone? That's what I always think about people who have it out for the whole hour and a half.  Youre recording all these videos you probably won't watch ever again, let's be honest.  

 

One time when I went to see Miyavi, this douchelord kept filming his girlfriend for most of the gig, she was dancing to the songs and they were making people open space so he could film her. I'm sorry but... that's ridiculous.  When I went to see this other band, this girl was on facebook and instagram the whole time posting about it, instead of enjoying it. Call me a hippie, but events become a lot more enjoyable without a cellphone or whatever , since some people just don't have any knowledge of common courtesy. Whether you accept it or not, when someone has their phone out it's so hard to not keep glancing at the screen because our eyes are naturally attracted to it.  If a band asks for no pictures, it's not gonna kill me as much as I want proof that I saw them ,etc. It's not that hard to just accept it. I don't have a god complex towards bands, but I'm very thankful that they managed to come to my country and perform.

 

Also, another reason I'm against it is because I'm 1.52m in height and it's already a struggle to see the stage in normal conditions, but when there's someone that's nearly 2m high in front of me and they block the only small square of vision I have with an ipad, then I can't see a thing.

Of course, that's my problem. 

Edited April 26, 2016 by Platy

[WhirlingBlack 1043]

I recorded video at a MUCC gig back in 2009, and I've watched it every year since at least once.

I think both sides here are just trying to enforce their view without taking the other side into regard "I can't understand why someone would want to do X" or "As a fan I'm entitled to Y", seems to some to be valid arguments for some?

Video recordings are a great memory of a show, not only for yourself but for future preservation and for everyone who unfortunately were unable to attend - you are basically doing a lot of people a service, and I think some (not all) who record and might sacrifice some of their own enjoyment see it this way.

I find a staggering hypocrisy in a lot of people in such as that they hate on people for recording, but then go on Youtube and view the videos themselves when given a chance.

A lot of my all time favorite live videos to watch would not exist if there weren't fans who had taken their time to make them.

 

Most of the annoyance seems to come from letting people just stand around anywhere with their phones etc. and I agree, there needs to be some kind of rules in regards to that, but rather than a total ban just do what a lot of video-friendly bands already do, have a designated area in the back (say, along the wall or the last fourth of the hall or so) where people are allowed to film. Bands are missing out on marketing and often high quality material that are essentially completely free of production costs and does not require any work on their part. Most fans would not use "There are live videos on Youtube" as an excuse of not attending a concert themselves, and it wouldn't compete with CD sales either (although they already form only a small part of an artists revenue).

Edited April 27, 2016 by WhirlingBlack

[Bear 1817]

22 hours ago, emmny said:

ion give a fuck about their wishes; they can police their japanese audience all they want, it won't work to the same extent here.

 

Is this you:

 

 

[NICKT 147]

Lil' of column A.

Lil' of column B.

 

Fans and live-goers should be understanding of bands and managements wishes and decisions.

Bands should understand at least the basics of the culture they're playing in and take that into account when making their decisions.

 

At the end of the day, they still get to wave-dick so if you don't like it? Get out.

 

--

The one photo limit at VIP meets sort of sounds dodgy, but I can sort of understand if they wanted to keep pace. If people took too many photos then it'd slow down the process and would take too much time. Different if it's more of a hang-out, but the more general you make your argument the harder it is to be coherent and make a firm point. I've never been to one, but do they have professional photography?

It'd suck if you were allowed one photo and it was a dodgy mobile picture, especially if you paid extra for it. 

 

My opinion, though, on the whole no phones at lives. Eh, I sort of agree. The kind of person I am, though, is that I'd rather enjoy the experience, I went there to hear the band play, you'd want to be in that moment. Sure it's nice to have a memento, but we're living in an age where we have to apparently document everything we do and it's just shallow. I have my memories and my experiences and I don't really need pictures to remind me of them or to show and brag to other people. It might be different for those young people who feel they need to validate themselves and their experiences online, through twitter or instagram, or whatever else, but personally I'm completely fine with the idea of no phones, no pictures.

Edited April 27, 2016 by NICKT
Added last paragraph.

[YuyoDrift 1540]

So after contacting some of their reps, one finally answered my question.

 

"The artist and promoters are the ones that have the "No Cameras" policy and it does apply to everyone VIP members as well. The restriction is mostly for professional cameras that have a detachable lens. Camera phone should be ok."

 

Thanks dude.

 

 

21 hours ago, NICKT said:

Lil' of column A.

Lil' of column B.

 

Fans and live-goers should be understanding of bands and managements wishes and decisions.

Bands should understand at least the basics of the culture they're playing in and take that into account when making their decisions.

 

At the end of the day, they still get to wave-dick so if you don't like it? Get out.

 

--

The one photo limit at VIP meets sort of sounds dodgy, but I can sort of understand if they wanted to keep pace. If people took too many photos then it'd slow down the process and would take too much time. Different if it's more of a hang-out, but the more general you make your argument the harder it is to be coherent and make a firm point. I've never been to one, but do they have professional photography?

It'd suck if you were allowed one photo and it was a dodgy mobile picture, especially if you paid extra for it. 

 

My opinion, though, on the whole no phones at lives. Eh, I sort of agree. The kind of person I am, though, is that I'd rather enjoy the experience, I went there to hear the band play, you'd want to be in that moment. Sure it's nice to have a memento, but we're living in an age where we have to apparently document everything we do and it's just shallow. I have my memories and my experiences and I don't really need pictures to remind me of them or to show and brag to other people. It might be different for those young people who feel they need to validate themselves and their experiences online, through twitter or instagram, or whatever else, but personally I'm completely fine with the idea of no phones, no pictures.

 

Agreed.

 

People need to understand that taking picture/s or video during the concert is a completely different dilemma as opposed from taking pic/s during backstage/VIP, and should be opinionated differently.

 

I would be very content with 1 group photo during the VIP with my cell phone (maybe a disposable?). It'd make it worth the experience for me at least. Possibly a handshake/bow too lol.

 

During the concert though, please be courteous and put your mobile device away. Also, don't move around like you're having a seizure.

[WhirlingBlack 1043]

I really hope for the sake of consistency that all of you who denounce people who film at concerts never watch audience-filmed stuff on Youtube, otherwise it's difficult to take your objections seriously.

Or perhaps it's alright if you aren't in the audience and personally "violated"?

Food for thought.

 

I agree in principle about the still photography because that really has no personal value for me, but since I enjoy watching audience-sourced live videos, I'd be hypocritical of me to attack the people who produce them for myself and others enjoyment. I respect all opinions but it's important to be intellectually honest then and not argue against it while enjoying the benefits of it at the same time.

Edited April 28, 2016 by WhirlingBlack

[NICKT 147]

Not a fan of fan-recorded lives, either through quality issues or principle.

The literal only time I've watched a fan-recorded live seriously was those ones of kpop dance routines, for shits and giggles.

The quality of those were dreadful, too. I had to mute them otherwise it would have been more unbearable for me than actually listening to kpop.

So yeah, objection sustained?

 

--

 

In regards to photos though, has anyone seen those pictures online of when bands themselves take a photo of them and the audience? Wish more bands did that, I'd much rather an event be remembered like that.

[LIDL 692]

To me it is more to business than anything.

Bands and music groups in Japan usually have fan clubs.

And they wanted to sell professional photography and pictures in the form of photo book that way.

If there's audience taking pictures, especially with flash, it will ruin the picture, and they will lose a moment forever.

Also it is to ensure exclusivity to the fan club member who have to paid sums of money to be in and get regular bulletins and such.

I mean if they can see all pictures the band wanted to show from social media, they will start to think whats the use being a fan club member anymore? And the band will lose money, the very money that keep them going.

 

Personally I don't mind with this restriction if applied, I think it is better when people who paid hundreds of dollars actually focused on the performers on stage and be in the moment, than busy watching and recording it from their cellphone screen. What a waste of money. I feel sad sometimes when some people cannot jump around or head bang because they can't move since they wanted to record the performance.

 

I'd choose to see those recording from official DVD than what I can take with my portable gadgets.

 

But in these days of age, social media is on a rage, and people get more and more encouraged to show off what they do or what they have in form of pictures and few seconds videos. So that's tough.

[WhirlingBlack 1043]

More bands should consider releasing official recordings of all their shows, it's pretty minimal effort required if they don't have such high quality demands, and with digital distribution channels costs would not have to skyrocket either for fans. Charging ticket price or below for a venue shot video (Most venues film at least one angle, generally center and above the audience for the bands own archives) or even just a plain soundboard mix audio. Fans would have their memories, no one would have to block your precious views, everyone would be happy.

 

Back when things had to be distributed on discs, this wasn't feasible, but today it's really no problem putting out a hundred+ digital releases a year. Potential goldmine for the bands, if revenue is what they want, and just a general win-win situation for everyone.

[BrenGun 2261]

2 hours ago, WhirlingBlack said:

More bands should consider releasing official recordings of all their shows, it's pretty minimal effort required if they don't have such high quality demands, and with digital distribution channels costs would not have to skyrocket either for fans. Charging ticket price or below for a venue shot video (Most venues film at least one angle, generally center and above the audience for the bands own archives) or even just a plain soundboard mix audio. Fans would have their memories, no one would have to block your precious views, everyone would be happy.

 

Back when things had to be distributed on discs, this wasn't feasible, but today it's really no problem putting out a hundred+ digital releases a year. Potential goldmine for the bands, if revenue is what they want, and just a general win-win situation for everyone.

 

Well if they do, they think: now we cannot sell a DVD anymore.
So they love to SELL DVD's more than putting their LIVES on youtube.

[WhirlingBlack 1043]

If you read again what I said, I didn't say anything about putting it up on Youtube. It could be distributed in a similar manner as Bandcamp or iTunes purchases. 

I know that right now physical formats are dominant in Japan, and for proper releases I see no issues with this at all, but you can't release a live DVD of every concert you play because packaging and production would make the prices skyrocket and the market is too small to make it viable.

I'm sure there would still be a market for properly mixed and mastered live DVDs and this would be more of a niche thing, but since there literally goes almost zero extra work into it, it's not a big deal and a nice way to earn a couple of extra ten-thousand yen bills per live.

[lichtlune 915]

I'm of the opinion that we should respect the bands wishes and not the other way around. I don't really care how much money you spent on a V.I.P ticket or whatever else.  The band doesn't have to tour in your country at all.  I think of the situation the same way I do for movie theater's. Cell phones are a distraction and should be put away until afterwards. Besides it's such a simple request. Why fight the band on it?