hyura

Old VK seems to be about taking some melodies and notes from your favourite bands and making a new song of it in general. The whole imitating and copying of each other is probably one of the reasons VK was quite homogenous in the 90s. Not that this has changed much, but instead of emulating Luna Sea, X or Kuroyume bands have started to copy other groups (such as Gazette).

(but errr… we already had the whole Grieva copies Diru discussion)

 

Anyway… I thought about making a new topic, but then didn't since I don't know if it would deserve it's own thread, but are there any modern Vk bands, that are "oldschool" friendly? I mean mostly bands, that have a rather modern sound (and possibly look), so aren't really "kote kei" or comparable to Ru:natic, Grieva and the likes, but who still have a strong musical connection to the older scene and could be appealing to someone who mostly listens to the old stuff from the 90s to the early 00s.

I am trying to find some new VK bands, but most of the stuff I find seems really just the average Electro Rock, Pop or Metalcore music which is so hip at the moment. So far I've discovered cocklobin (who disbanded, sadly) and I have checked Dezert and I kind of like them.

 

I actually don't mind the copying at all. Just many people see grieva as a Dir en grey cover band when in fact they take influence from lots of places (Although Dir en grey is obviously number one) and do pretty well at their concept of bringing back the late 90s/early 00s era.

 

As for currently active bands I enjoy that fit into the maniac theme without being overly nostalgic... Did you try AvelCains latest releases?

It reminds me a lot of the more aggressive Nagoya-kei bands that were active around 03 or 04, think Chelsea or Puppet Mammy.

BUG scream is also a very nice band. They do have lots of nostalgia about them, but don't really come off as an oldschool copy group.

They sound a bit like the Soleil band S.

 

Well you propably tried those anyway. : /

i like grieva. but to be honest i don't see them as an old school band. and i love their visuals but still they don't seem so old school to me.

what other band except deg do they remind from old school vkei? maybe i don't know enough bands.

as much as i like them they seem more modern to me than old school and i don't have a problem with that just saying.

 

I think it's just less obvious because the Dir en grey influence is so strong, but they really copy all kinds of bands from that era.　

For example 孤独人形症候群

 

sounds like a way edgier version of AZALEA's 滅びの庭.

http://youtu.be/6dfPL_e5HqE

 

And 黒い涙

 

sounds very very similar to 密室白昼夢 by Earl Grey. (unfortunately I didn't find that one on youtube.)

 

But there are more.

Questions:

 

1: Don`t worry about others, is Visual Kei a genre, or a scene, or something else, to you?

I'd say both, although the genre in that case is a very loose one and it's very easy to find 2 bands that are both visual kei but play music so different from each other that it's a little weird to put their music into the same category but:

If someone would ask for a band that is similar to some vk song I could only recommend other vk bands. Mathematically speaking it's a group. A closed system. The only way to get out of vk by always listening to something similar to the song you listened before is go backwards until you get to songs that influenced the genre before it existed or go forth in the history of bands that 'left' the genre.

Almost every typical structure, image, rythm and sound can be found outside of vk, but not in the the context it's used there, the impact is completely different.

 

And that is maybe because it's first of all a scene and one that mainly influences itself and developed such a unique live-culture. The songs are mainly composed to fit into a classic vk live performance, they are specifically designed for that purpose and as there is no similar live culture in any other genre the songs will sound different.

So. The scene influenced the sound and made it into a genre, although genre is not the right word. Rather 'loose category of song structures and patterns'.

 

2: Most of the time can you tell the genre, or if you will like a band based on their look?

Well most of the time the general direction is obvious, although lately it became a thing for upbeat and fun bands to wear black and thick make up to confuse me.

Still. If I saw the bands look, the cover of their cd and read the song titles I will always have a pretty good guess what they sound like and I'm almost never wrong. Liking a band because of their look is absolutely ridiculous, though. Well sometimes I think 'wow they look cool, too bad they sound shitty.' or 'Damn, this band is so much fun, it'd be nice if they put more effort into their looks, they'd sure get more people to listen to them.'

 

3: Do the looks matter to you? If the same band dressed in Jeans and T-shirts with short hair, would you be as interested?

Absolutely. That sometimes happened to me with bands that stopped looking visual, like for example La'Mule. They were actually better in the end and the plain look suited them, too.

However. it is really unheard of for a band to have a casual look (from the very beginning) and play the genre I prefer. (That is your typical 98-03 indies sound with lots of screams and insanity) So of course I'd only try them out if someone told me about it as I'd never assume it if I saw them.

 

4: Do you search for music by sub-genre, such as Nu-Metal, Alt. Rock, etc?

I don't. Only by connections to bands I already like (same members, same label...) or recommendations by friends.

 

5: Do you get annoyed when others label your favorite music as genres which you don`t agree with?

Certainly, yes. For example when people use 'kotekote kei' for a band only because they are old or refuse to use it only because they are new.

 

Bonus: If a band starts as Visual Kei, even if they change, are they Visual Kei 4 Lyfe?

That really depends on how they change. Do they still use vk imagery, vk language, vk sale strategies?

Dir en grey for example dropped the looks a long time ago but they kept their 'visual kei' feeling because they still use cheap shock effects, dramatic language and still put on a theatrical show on stage.

On the other hand I'd never call Madbeavers visual kei. Everything about them is rock band, there is absolutely no connection.

Maybe it's not that stupid to do.

But it takes all pride off your band and that's a bad thing in visual kei where image is everything. I mean. The vampire prince you act like on stage wouldn't disgrace himself like that.

 

Also. Just a friendly reminder of that one time when Kon was still in Nightingeil and posted on his blog that you'd better come to their oneman because he plans to kill himself and it's the last chance to hear him sing.

also please remember that wataru is chick-chocking patriarchy fetishising cis-privileged scum

 

Well. Some would argue that physical violence against a woman by a man is feminism because gender shouldn't determine who you decide to choke.

That's not my opinion because my opinion is that nobody should choke noone.

Still, we don't know whether he did it because he's a sexist asshole or some other kind of asshole or no asshole at all.

 

Also this story has a beard and the beard has a beard.

re-evaluate their future and musical directions

 

I truly hope that they are serious about this.

12012 was once a band with a distinct sound and distinct concept, very strong lyrics and a very strong atmosphere but ever since their major debut they seem to have lost their way.

They never actually mastered any of the styles they tried since then, it was always more like half-heartily stealing here and there.

There was a brief period around usubeni to ame where I thought they created something of their own again but it was over as fast as it started.

 

If they ever return, I don't even want them to go back to the roots (although that would be cool), I just wish they'd return sometime with a concept that is really their own again, because I know they can do it. They showed that they are great composers, great performers. Wataru is a great vocalist and a great poet. They showed they can impress me. So why?

12s case is the only one where I actually lost respect for a band I once loved.

Actually, if any other band had 3 full songs, an SE and a music video they would have just made two types, one with the third song as bonus and the other one with the extra dvd.

Costing 1300 and 1800 yen respectively.

CELL actually do care about their overseas fans and make sure stuff is always sold with international shipping somewhere. However, I bet they won't cry if you decide not to buy this time. Don't worry.

I saw Isuke yesterday D: He has a new hairstyle and it looks so cool lol

 

d'aww.

I wonder what he'll look like with La'Mule in spring since the other members are all super visual in their current bands. :' )

 that aren't all that rare

 

^oh yes this.

I mean. they exist. Actually rare releases. Mostly by obscure bands or super limited stuff.

But that's a small percentage. Then there's the stuff people are just too greedy to buy or too lazy to actively look for.

Somehow this topic makes me feel ueasy.

Why?

It makes it sound like actually paying the artist for the music you listen to is some kind of charity. Where you can whine later that not all of your money went to poor children in africa. Like the stuff musicians do isn't work. (Set aside that most make money with something else and income through band activities is very small as we all know by now.)

 

Well it is. If you buy a cd you are paying for the people who were involved in making it. You are not paying for whatever they buy from it. Money goes around the whole world anyway and all the money you ever touched has been owned by assholes, has been used to buy weapons or slaves or whatever and you still use it as if it was fresh and new and innocent.

 

Would you like the customers of the company you are working on boycot it because they saw on your blog that you used it to buy bad music made by men in dresses?

 

(Of course I'm all for boycotting companies that support animal cruelty or nationalist organizations or whatnot. But thats a different thing from what one person can change with the little private money they have.)

I usually drink just one, it's one glass from one pill that melts in water, it contains 64mg of caffeine. It's not that much, sometimes I have 1-2 days of a break from drinking it, but if I had none, I'd spend some days laying in bed, because it's to the point I can't even sit straight in front of the computer and my head often hurts as well. I know I should go to the doctor, but I won't, I have no patience to deal with the public health care.

 

Do you exercise regularily?

I sometimes had similar symptoms and it was always when I had too much work and there was no time to go running or do workouts.

Your bloodpressure will go down causing headaches and tiredness if you don't keep it up through physical exercise. (Caffeine is like a short-time substitute for that because it also makes the blood pressure rise.)

I found that out by asking on last.fm, but going through their shoutbox it seems like that exchange disappeared. It very well could be completely wrong

Ah, I see! Too bad it disappeared. Would have been interesting to know where it came from. D ;

but unfortunately (at least for me) their Sound didn't change... still oldschool... not my taste...

 

They may change anything about themselves except this aspect because 'oldschool' is literally their band concept. (Although I think they could have chosen a nicer concept and still kept the sound oldschool.) So yeah. The band would be completely without purpose if they suddenly sounded 2014.

This one actually doesn't scream OMG DIR EN GREY at me, I'm happy.

 

Although the japanese theme, the blood on white fabric paired with black leather and kyoukis styling resembles La'Mules look from their 'curse'-pv a lot.

However, it doesn't sound like them at all, so I guess that's okay.

I have another question about your history article!

 

 

Their name is a portmanteau of the phrase "My Death's Gray Will."

 

I've heard this explanation or a similar one somewhere else and I wonder where it comes from. orz

 

So far I've read only the following two in interviews:

In newer ones: There is no deeper meaning, it's supposed to sound dark and fit the band image.

In older ones It's the English pseudo-translation of 狂死楽園 (which is also the name of their first real release)

This one works a little because:

狂 - MAD, 死 - DEATH, 楽園 - GRAIL (actually it means 'paradise', but 'grail' was the closest thing that made sense to me)

And at least many of their older fans call them 狂死楽園, so I thought that one was legit.

^

Reading those reviews it may be a trap.

I couldn't have summed up my thoughts better than you did. Even though I used to be a hard-core H.I.M fan when I was 11-14 years old, I still understand why I did listen to them. Though now I consider only two albums listenable (The greatest lovesongs vol. 666 and Venus doom) I still understand why I liked them so much and don't consider all their music "crap".

 

www It's funny that you say these things in one paragraph, because HIM was the first band I got into, too. Also when I was around 11 years old and I agree: If a new band would come out now that made the same music it's very unlikely that my adult self would get into them but I can still understand what made me like them as a kid and if I ever stumble upon one of their songs it still makes me excited somehow. My favorite album was greatest lovesongs vol. 666, too and I still have it. ; D

I can't really contribute because I'm very much like you. My musical taste did evolve somehow since I was a teenager of course but it's more that I still like the same things in a more refined manner than a real shift to something new. Most bands that were on my favorites list back then are still there now and the ones I don't listen to that often anymore didn't become unlistenable either.

 

But it's something I'm very interested in, too. It seemed to happen to so many people I knew and I still wait for the moment it happens to me (although since I'm 10 years in the fandom now it might just never happen after all.)

Sometimes it was pretty painful to lose friends simply because the thing that once connected us suddenly became meaningless to them.

I'm curious whether they'll have a 'real movie' like thing for this, too, like they did for kiken na watashi. : D

But yeah, it sounds really good so far, I can't wait to hear everything.

Also. Raep.

In their band page it says 'members, sound, visuals and worldview... everything is still wrapped up in mystery.'

Sounds visual to me.

I like that you rewrite their biography, the one that's currently used on most other pages has been copypasted for over 10 years I think and Madeths popularity really deserves to have a proper one.

It seems to be correct for the most part, too, as far as I can tell without checking every date.

 

I'd propably consider adding information about their activities besides release names and dates, though. Especially the first period with all the demotapes seems a little like they didn't know what they were doing written like that while it really was a well planned promotion campaign!

 

The three first demos (norowareshi hana no seimei, kuroshouzoku no shirabe, missantroop) could be preordered through Matina and they cost money. At this point Madeth did not yet have a single live performance yet and they were called a 'Vierge members unit band' Those tapes sold out and the bands identity was revealed at their first 'secret' live (which was not secret at all) on christmas 97' at which you got the forth tape, kyoushikyoku.

So it was only after that that they started actual activities. They announced their first 'official' release, the kyoushirakuen tape and three live dates to promote it before named hakuchuumu no sangeki, chizome no kigeki and operaza no higeki and at each you got a demo with the same title containing a sample.

 

Of course one doesn't need it that detailed, I just think that it's more coherent if you include some important live dates and activities. At least mentioning the onemans they had (just very few) and when they had a tour. Do you have their history album? The history printed in the booklet is not bad at all.

(ask me anything though. orz I have almost all their flyers and interviews and no idea what to do with the senseless infos)

 

Some mistakes, though:

I think you actually mixed up ukyou and izumi!

When the second juujika no ketsumatsu was released ukyou was already their lead guitarist. you can also hear him in Le MISERABLE and Mother Crisis, as well. Izumi joined later at their first oneman live at 99/8/9.

 

The last video was not released at their last live. (couldn't have, it contains footage from that day) As far as I know you had to send in a coupon from the live as well as a coupon from their best album and then you could win it through some sort of lottery.

 

Le MISERABLE was not a new song on the best. It was already released in early 99 on the new age culture vol 2 sampler.

 

Hisuis disappeared from the scene completely after Rametan Matsuri on 2004/6/12 with kisaki to kansai kizoku. So not in 2007.

 

I think their last mini is romanized as boukai no mato... but I'm not completely sure. ww

dear you.

 

?

I never claimed anything different. Demos are exactly that. The cheapest and easiest way to show your stuff to people. A couple years ago the typical medium for that would be a tape, yes.

Today the typical medium would be a digital file, either homeburned to a cd or uploaded on the internet.

 

So a band to record a typical 90s vk demo today doesn't do it because it's the easiest way (like their idols did), they do it out of nostalgia even though a digital version would have been easier to edit and easier to spread. It's basically classicism.

 

----

I actually couldn't find any of my favorites on youtube unfortunately, but this video is dubbed with Syndromes 'vogue' demo which is one of their best songs. (imho)

 

^Haha no. By standard I didn't refer to the current 'vk standard sound' but more to the 'digital era standard' where you can create a pretty decent demo sound quality with little money playing whatever style you like, including 90s vk. For example: I like the La'veil Mizeria tapes. I like that they are nostalgic. I like that they are tapes released in 2013 But still- they are impractical and I don't think it would have hurt to put quality before nostalgia in their case because the band would still be Matina as hell on cd.

What you described does nothing for me.

While it may not fit my personal prefferences in music I must admit that I'd prefer good quality recordings over lo-fi demos any day.

Quite often of course the rerecorded version lacks the original energy of the demo and is therefore uncomparable or (even more often) there is none at all, so I got used to it.

And I appreciate the excitement of holding old tapes in my hands or reparing them when they are broken upon revival.

 

Still. Whenever I hear a nice song in demo-quality I wonder what it would have turned out like if the band could have afforded to record in a studio.

That's also why I can't quite understand why some of todays vk acts try to emulate 90s demo quality for their stuff while the standard is so much higher now.

Live.

Almost every band I like is really a live band and has lots of songs that simply don't make much sense to listen to on cd!

However. Most of them have no live albums and listening to terekos is pretty unsatisfying so I listen to the studio versions... or make audio rips of dvds/vhs (if there are any) whenever It's impossible to just go and see the band in concert. (which is most of the time)