Dir en grey

[emmny 4139]

do you mean "music scene" or do you mean "scene" in general, they might halt all north-american export plans and focus on Europe and Asia already now. Dir en grey with uroko visuals or sukekiyo are perfect for Europe and Asia, and I'm not even sure if North American touring gave them anything aside from a couple new connection, mmm....money?

I haven't seen the receipts, they-re almost for sure part-subsidized by Sony Music atm which gets money elsewhere. they aren't an export product for North America atm, and Gazette, for example, aren't touring the US on principle.

i doubt this translates to much profit though but again there's no recipts i know of. i dont think any visual band that goes abroad make any substantial money really.

 

I beg to differ with you guys above and post this one:

 

Total clusterfuck of PETA trolling, Lennox/Bowie worshiping and...what-the-fuck-is-that-factor by courtesy of Kaoru

 

dir en SLAY

i cant believe i havent seen this before every member looks FLAWLESS

 

also i like their rick owens moody street goth current looks so their weird phase where they ditched the visual and looked ugly in the mid 2000's is my least fav look

[nekkichi 6043]

i doubt this translates to much profit though but again there's no recipts i know of. i dont think any visual band that goes abroad make any substantial money really.

there's a shit ton of money they have to shelve out just to get into north american market. iirc, russia covered all their touring expenses bc. better Japan-Russian cultural connections (we got VK while Japan had Origa and cheburashka trademark and shit), and I missed north american seattle gig by some reason (bought tickets and saw some ppl from this board, but gig got delayed and I had to go back).

I can't explain my intuitive feelings about certain bands, but Dir en grey is currently back to getting big, they just never made enough >money touring north america with toned-down looks, it was kind of an art scene showcase tour, not bringing shit for local stoners to watch at.

case in point - miyavi. half-korean half japanese chanteuse is not relevant anymore in japan, but he has kids, movie career, and gospel muzak.

 

Where did this meme come from?

pick one, or alternative suggestion

Going from your standards where's the dividing line between US- and european "assets" for foreign bands? Visuals from music videos or clothing style?

I think you should take a closer look at Dir en grey 2005 -> 2015 videos, and take a look at list of notable bands of same scale (X Japan, Buck Tick, Dir en grey, The Gazette, L'Arc en Ciel, GLAY) doing SLEEEEEIGHING north american tours.

Amurica got despairs ray (flopped upon arrival), and miyavi (yiiiis king show them!11 better than kpop, can't complain).

The US doesn't have market for almost all good european and asian shit, but it has interesting money relationships with exporters.

 

the GazettE on the other hand could probably do the same, they just have this hard on with pretending that the US doesn't exist....along side other underlying conditions.

I think you should take a history class on Japanese and German and northern american ss-connections during and past ww-2 and go digging deeper from there.

at some point your over-analytical SKILL will shine. btw, I typically ignore your posts, but this one just needed some explanation, I like gazetto.

btw, I'm not starting a stan war relapse, if I cared about any of those bands I'm pulling, I'll refer to a separate thread lol.

[emmny 4139]

LEAVE D'ESPAIRSRAY ALOOOOOOOOONEEE!!

jk im surprised they went into the US market so quickly like why even

DEG prolly knew their shit and knew how to play their cards and if anything thats why they thrived in the NA market

[relentless 254]

Because your comments are scattered in thought and largely disconnected, I tried to boil down what you said into one line (let me know if it's a misrepresentation so I may edit it in the future):

 

 

Dir en grey is currently back to getting big, they just never made enough >money touring north america with toned-down looks

 

It appears the crux of your argument relies on the assumption: visual aesthetic = success. Basically saying: as Dir en grey revert back to greater visual presentation, that means they're getting "big" again...or something. Again, I'm assuming the argument with what you've given, so I apologize if this is at all inaccurate.

 

There's just one problem: it doesn't take into account the real issue of marketing. If I were hard pressed to find a solution, it wouldn't have anything to do with visuals or the lackthereof in the first place because in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't matter. So, if "visuals" aren't the reason for this, what is? Simply put: marketing the product.

 

At the end of the day these bands are products that are sold to consumers. "Dir en grey", for all intents and purposes, is a brand. It is literally no different than marketing a brand of beer on television; but the issue lies in the fact "Dir en grey" , the brand, doesn't receive the proper marketing to get that product out there. The issue isn't "Kyo-sama doesn't wear the cute kabuki make-up, therefore their sales will drop". No, it doesn't quite work like that. It's a lack of effort in building the fanbase through support tours, and a lack of marketing to get word out about North American tours. Dating back to 2008 (post-Deftones tour), Dir en grey has done ONE support tour: with "Apocalyptica" of all people. Even then, that was a co-headline tour, not as a support act. What bands have Dir en grey toured with since then? A bunch of nobodies. Some french groove metal band recently, and some band named "Preschool Teaparty Massacre", or some shit.

 

Why is this important? Because bands in the US, and across the rest of the world in Pop Music, largely work on support tours to gain new fans, and for some reason Dir en grey either refuses to do this, or no one wants them as a support act. The latter is highly in question, so if I were a betting man, I would go with the former. Going on headlining tours where there's 0 means to build the fanbase, and the lack of money put into North American marketing, is a far more significant factor than "they dress like teh cute womenz now, so they're totally hot right now".

 

Effectively, Dir en grey has been doing North American tours with the same fans from 2007 with no effort to expand it. Could this be because the band, or whoever acts as their main source of management, don't see it as worth it and would prefer to do a headlining tour for some quick cash and call it a day? That's very possible; but the issue isn't grounded in their aesthetic, it's grounded in their lack of marketing.

[nekkichi 6043]

It appears the crux of your argument relies on the assumption: visual aesthetic = success. Basically saying: as Dir en grey revert back to greater visual presentation, that means they're getting "big" again...or something. Again, I'm assuming the argument with what you've given, so I apologize if this is at all inaccurate.

 

There's just one problem: it doesn't take into account the real issue of marketing. 

you are not taking into account a simple fact that entire sony entertainment venue is not even profitable, with includes sony music (SMEJ -> firewall div.), sony movies, playstation, and all that, and you operate on assumption anyone gives a f. about dir en grey touring profits, while the entire sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-contract chain goes all the way up to whoever is funding sony in the government, and whoever makes bank for the whole  corporation

for sony, it's japanese insurance selling service.

 

it doesn't matter what dir en grey looks like/tours where when it's a japanese cultural export product, nothing less/nothing more.

if they were this >valuable, you won't even be able to get much shit seen outside of official youtube, because copyright laws are passed on govmnt level as well.

right now, does Arche even have a north-american local physical distribution? I'm a little behind on local music labels etc, shit vancouver music scene kind of killed my interest in up and coming north american acts in general.

[relentless 254]

you are not taking into account a simple fact that entire sony entertainment venue is not even profitable

 

Yes, because that is irrelevant when it comes to the discussion of band marketability and the lackthereof. If you want to have a separate discussion about Sony Entertainment and their failing TV sales, we can do that.

 

Note: the link you provided only talked on Sony's profits in the TV market, which =/= their assets in music. If you want to present a better and more representative statistic, make it relevant to the topic next time, because this is all that's said in the article you provided:

 

 

 

Unfortunately for Sony, the parent company doesn’t stick to selling insurance policies. It sells TVs, too, even though it can’t manage to do so profitably. Chief Executive Officer Kazuo Hirai said the company will lose money on its television business for the 10th year in a row, with the red ink for TVs this time amounting to ¥25 billion yen. “Investors don’t have much faith in Hirai,” Mitsushige Akino, chief fund manager at Ichiyoshi Asset Management in Tokyo, told Bloomberg News. “There’s no growth strategy.”

[nekkichi 6043]

where can we take this shit off, because you are only looking @ product "value" completely ignoring research and development.

Dir en grey is PS3 (toshiba-someone else v. expensive state of art research), gazette is rebranded gaming laptop.

all sony ent. venues are >not profitable. (inb4 "awww but my expensive media, but muh royalties, but but but but WE WON XBONE FIGHT - look up numbers and compare insurance costs in construction, for example.)

[relentless 254]

where can we take this shit off, because you are only looking @ product "value" completely ignoring research and development.

Dir en grey is PS3 (toshiba-someone else v. expensive state of art research), gazette is rebranded gaming laptop.

all sony ent. venues are >not profitable. (inb4 "awww but my expensive media, but muh royalties, but but but but WE WON XBONE FIGHT - look up numbers and compare insurance costs in construction, for example.)

 

That is a poor analogy to say the least mainly because what you're arguing, or trying to say, isn't inherently clear. First you made vague references to what I mentioned in my first post (visual aesthetic = success). Afterwards, you mention Sony not being a profitable company in Entertainment (something you have yet to provide relevant evidence for outside of TV sales). Next, you get into this bizarre conspiracy theory about how it goes all the way up to the government who fund Sony. Then you dive into "research and development" which you never made clear what you were referencing in the first place.

 

Ok...for the sake of any readers and the coherency of your argument, it sounds like you're making a (poorly worded) argument that revolves around these premises: 1. Sony is not profitable in Entertainment, and 2. the Government ultimately decides Sony's business ventures (or something...you were pretty vague on this). Framed like this, I can kind of see what you're trying to say. Would it be an accurate assessment to say your argument is about how the government wants Sony to be profitable, so they are putting pressure on them to remove themselves from the Entertainment sector / reduce the scope of their Entertainment business? This I imagine would fall in line with what you said about Dir en grey maybe focusing on European and Japanese tours to reduce costs; but that is no more than a blatantly stupid conspiracy theory which I have no doubt came from a place like Tumblr / any Dir en grey community that enjoys circle jerking over the most bizarre and detached-from-reality gossip.

 

Also, you completely miss the point when you said I'm talking about "product value". I'm not arguing the "value" of a product, I'm arguing marketing (and lackthereof) towards a given product. When discussing a band, the concept of "product value" is useless because it's directly related to fan support: the amount of fans and the amount they spend determines a band's "value".

 

 

EDIT:

 

Also, this just caught my eye:

 

 

all sony ent. venues are >not profitable. (inb4 "awww but my expensive media, but muh royalties, but but but but WE WON XBONE FIGHT - look up numbers and compare insurance costs in construction, for example.)

 

Oh hey, I just so happen to run the financial end of a major construction company! What luck! What about insurance costs in construction are you talking about?

[Heroin 53]

dir en grey deeper than illuminati

[nekkichi 6043]

dir en grey deeper than illuminati

 

reptilian chanteuse Inzargi approves this 

[Heroin 53]

damnit, my comment transcended to looking like a tumblr reblog. : /

 

anyway ill talk some DeG. I said this more than once but I think UROBOROS is a masterpiece!

[emmny 4139]

i love when DEG fans debate about relevant shit!!!

what do gazette fans beef each other over? serious question.

[DogManX 179]

Luckily Dir en grey fans are not dominated by weeaboos who are obsessed with emoticons and -chan endings. Usually those fangirls who go all the KAWAIIII way are not so kawaii in real life and approx. weigh about 200 kg. But that's of course speculation. Also when you have to grow up with RT... conspiracy theories are your daily news basically.

 

Uroboros indeed a masterpiece. And this is totally not a distraction move!

[nekkichi 6043]

what does growing up with retweets have to do with the way this thread's been derailing into /r/angry-str8-direngray-atans

 

 

i like uroboros for sure. it's like my top-7 fav. dir en grey album.

[ghost 2687]

Speakin' of masterpieces and albums, I thought DSS was pretty good!

I mean, it really had to grow on me. ALOT. But I can enjoy it well enough now. 

I haven't listened to it in a while, but still think Ruten no Tou is one of the best tracks the band has written ever. Such power in Kyo's voice.

The unplugged version is great too. My favorite part is near the end where it goes all major key.

 

What do people think of unplugged Dir en grey tracks? I generally love them.

 

Favorite beings:

-namameki.... (The Marrow of a bone)

-The Pledge (The Marrow of a bone)

-Undecided (Glass Skin)

-Inconvenient Ideal (Uroboros)

-Red Soil (Uroboros)

-Ruten no tou (Dum Spiro Spero)

-The Final (The Unraveling)

 

And similarly, do people like Dir en grey remixes? I generally don't really like them, but they've had some good ones here and there.

 

Favorites:

-Zan D.P.Y. mix (Zan)

-ain't afraid to die ~with frosted ambience~ (ain't afraid to die)

-ain't afraid to die ~irresistible mix~ (ain't afraid to die)

-Rasetsukoku Za downtown funkmaster remix (kai)

-Myaku 8 1/2 convert (kai)

-KR Cube K.K. vomit mix (kai)

-Decayed Crow (Dum Spiro Spero)

-Unraveling (Arche)

[Ro plz 1290]

Unplugged versions that are my fav:

Undecided

The Pledge

Ware Yami Tote

Uroko

Different Sense

Juuyoku

I generally don't like the remixes tbh.

EDIT: Dogman and Emmy, you are killing me with your posts haha. Y U DO THIS.

And relentless, Stop feeding the troll. Dir en grey will continue to tour the states. End of story. No amount of "research" Nekkichi pulls up to discredit why they shouldn't will stop this. Lmaooo

[nullmoon 784]

Unplugged versions that are my fav:

Undecided

The Pledge

Ware Yami Tote

Uroko

Different Sense

Juuyoku

I generally don't like the remixes tbh.

EDIT: Dogman and Emmy, you are killing me with your posts haha. Y U DO THIS.

And relentless, Stop feeding the troll bro.

There's a Different Sense unplugged?!

[Ro plz 1290]

There's a Different Sense unplugged?!

 

yes! The Dum Spiro Spero Budokan bonus CD is a full of unplugged/remixed tracks of the originals  

 

Enjoy.

[Pretsy 1343]

Favorite unplugged versions:

 

Undecided + Higeki blahblahblah (Rose Trims Again versions)

The Pledge (I don't dig "copypaste Kyo's vocals onto piano/other "acoustic" instruments"-idea that much tho)

Conceived Sorrow (read above)

Namamekashiki (read above)

Red Soil

The Final (aka "disneytastic version", lol)

 

In terms of remixes:

 

Decayed Crow (remix by NARASAKI) (ps. I am not kidding)

Jessica -wave mix- (dir en bossa!)

Both remixes for "Ain't Afraid to Die"

Embryo Uteute Boogie-woogie Elegy (very Spaghetti Western-y)

Taiyou no Ao -mix- (so random, lol)

Macabre -Tears of Scorpion mix-

[KR] Cube -K.K. Vomit mix-

Rinkaku Eternal Slumber mix

Vanitas Los Awkis Folklore ver. (counts as *remix* btw)

Rasetsukoku Za downtown funkmaster remix (so random, lol [2])

 

 

Makes me wanna go back to Kai someday...

 

Also, speaking of "masterpieces" - Uroboros is a nicely done album, yes. But in terms of *smooth* flows and lack of awkward transitions (Uroboros had this weird "Glass Skin - Stuck Man" transition, do you remember? Not as noticeable as say, Mazohyst -> Yokan for instance) and possible fillers, I have to go with their major debut for now

[greatest_dane 15]

Is anyone still listening to Arche on a regular basis?

For me, it's an album that has gotten better with time.

[kyoselflove 2680]

Is anyone still listening to Arche on a regular basis?

For me, it's an album that has gotten better with time.

 

YES!

 

I listen to it everyday I've loved it from the beginning, though there were a couple of tracks that had to grow on me.  It's seriously my favorite Diru album right next to Gauze. 

[nullmoon 784]

Is anyone still listening to Arche on a regular basis?

For me, it's an album that has gotten better with time.

Yup! I totally agree with you; every time I listen to it I find yet another reason why I love the album. It's definitely in my top 3, which rotates between Arche, Vulgar, and Uroboros.

[emmny 4139]

What do people think of unplugged Dir en grey tracks? I generally love them.

 

 

4 words:

AGITATED

SCREAMS

OF

MAGGOTS

[EzraEroguro 174]

4 words:

AGITATED

SCREAMS

OF

MAGGOTS

trollest of the trolls. surely you jest.

no really, that track is boss.

[relentless 254]

Favorite unplugged versions:

 

Undecided + Higeki blahblahblah (Rose Trims Again versions)

 

Also, speaking of "masterpieces" - Uroboros is a nicely done album, yes. But in terms of *smooth* flows and lack of awkward transitions (Uroboros had this weird "Glass Skin - Stuck Man" transition, do you remember? Not as noticeable as say, Mazohyst -> Yokan for instance) and possible fillers, I have to go with their major debut for now

 

Definitely agree with these. The acoustic undecided on TRTA is incredible, and in my view far better than the original.

 

And that Glass Skin > Stuck Man transition always felt weird. Glass Skin fades out with guitar sustain, then suddenly drums come crashing through the speakers.