Dir en grey

[ghost 2687]

Maybe it's because I've heard it so many times now, but I can't imagine the transition between the songs any other way.

We can call the transition "Glass Man".

Does anyone remember when "Stuck Man" used to be called something like "Three times does the trick" or something like that? I think that's actually a part of the lyrics to the song.

[nekkichi 6043]

^ I think you're referring to "the fatal believer", a lot of that stuff was first surfacing as EU tour bootlegs/Japanese first preview concerts w. band notes or smth else tagged instead of proper album titles.

I'm also on a deg nostalgic loop atm, most of the stuff 2000>> including that remix album, lol.

[Crube 585]

STUCK MAN was referred to THIRD TIME DOES THE TRICK before the album was released. No idea what THE FATAL BELIEVER was called before TMOAB was released. (Even if that were the case that is.)

 

 

The pain of not being able to slice off one pound of meat
The happiness that lasts in my memory for only two days
No one believes the saying, the third time does the trick

[DogManX 179]

THE FATAL BELIEVER is probably the most overlooked Deg song ever. For a reason. I think if any song qualifies for the worst Deg song, it could well be this one.

 

I love the maggots unplugged too, lol. It's just the perfect way to transit such a beast. Well.. I love the original too.

[Pretsy 1343]

STUCK MAN was referred to THIRD TIME DOES THE TRICK before the album was released. No idea what THE FATAL BELIEVER was called before TMOAB was released. (Even if that were the case that is.)

Stuck Man had a name like that due to the fact that fans noticed the name @backstage setlists back in DEATH OVER BLINDNESS tour (2008, Spring-Summer tour btw) - here's its pre-Uroboros live version btw

 

 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7716125

w/o Kyo growling (for the most part)

 

THE FATAL BELIEVER on the other hand was, as far as I remember, a song that they literally made from scratch while touring around US (so count that as an "overseas touring-inspired song" if you will, *cough* like most MOAB songs anyway)

 

CONCEIVED SORROW had a demo too back in the day, e.g. Despair in the Womb version (2006)

studio version

 

I really wish I could delve into the "leftover" subject/topic, seeing as DEG has a penchant for leaving tracks that didn't make the cut for later ventures (e.g. Ain't Afraid to Die is from MACABRE sessions, CLEVER SLEAZOID is from WtD sessions, DOZING GREEN is a MOAB leftover) - but I bet most people don't care about that kind of stuff so I will shut up for a while

 

@DogmanX: I think "The Inferno" still takes the title of being hands down the "worst DEG track ever" - and speaking of which, "S" (known for being their "worst song" among many fans and whatnot) is not even that bad anymore imho, lol.

[emmny 4139]

i honestly dont think the inferno is that bad it just sounds lazy

i rlly dont like hydra (both versions), domestic fucker family, keloid milk, mazohyst (gasp)

 

is anyone else really finnicky about vulgar? i love half the songs to death and hate the rest

[DogManX 179]

Godammned people. The influence of american punk rock metalcore whatever is not a sole TMOAB-effort. I know most of you fucking love that WtD album for nostalgic reasons or whatever.. but hands down, until there there has never been such an american (...)-rock sounding album. They just set more genre-specific focus with TMOAB.

 

Give me any american-inspired song from TMOAB, and I will tell you The Final trumps it. Actually, I think that's also why this song is so popular. It's so easy to digest for people with radio rock AND/OR jrock background. In the way how fucking uninspired it really is, it is sort of a masterpiece/marketing genius.

 

But that's of course speculation.

 

 

EDIT man I love Vulgar. Almost entirely.

[nullmoon 784]

THE FATAL BELIEVER is probably the most overlooked Deg song ever. For a reason. I think if any song qualifies for the worst Deg song, it could well be this one.

I love the maggots unplugged too, lol. It's just the perfect way to transit such a beast. Well.. I love the original too.

I agree. I've never liked this song, it just sounds like B-side material. Same with Rotting Root.

[relentless 254]

I've always found the whole "this sounds AMERICAN" opinion to singlehandedly be the laziest excuse I've ever read on a J-Rock forum. This sentiment is always meant in a negative light to imply a song is somehow "inferior" because it doesn't sound "Japanese".

 

Here's the one big problem with this argument: all of the music discussed here follows Western harmony. There is literally zero difference between the music any Japanese band makes vs. any other Pop band in the world outside of language.

 

This whole "Americanized" argument is just a lazy excuse presented by someone who has 0 knowledge of the music they're discussing. Something "sounding American" is just another way of saying "I don't like this style of music" except far more pretentious.

[ghost 2687]

Nooooooo "The Inferno" is awesome

I think its placement in Arche might throw people off but I think it's a pretty great DSS style song.

I think "R to the Core" is the worst song they've written. Very much like "The Inferno" in Arche, it doesn't fit into Vulgar and it's a short little jam with ugly vocals. I also don't enjoy "beautiful dirt" and "pink killer".

"The Inferno" is like the latter songs, but I think they do it so much better now.

EDIT

I also agree with "The Fatal believer"

On a side note, almost all of TMOAB is gold material to make misheard lyrics out of.

Example

Rotting Root

F**k it's an owl!

[relentless 254]

I think "R to the Core" is the worst song they've written.

 

H-how dare you........

[ghost 2687]

H-how dare you........

I'm sorry I went there. But it had to be said! All out of love ♡

[WhirlingBlack 1043]

Personally I think there are several ways to look at a "worst song", a song that you dislike because of the way it sounds, and a song that you dislike because you've heard it so many times you're sick to death of it.

 

For me, THE FINAL falls into the second category. I really don't think I need to hear or see it live again for the next decade or so, but I don't think its a bad track per se.

 

In the first category it's a lot more difficult, because several of the songs I used to dislike I enjoy nowadays because of their freshness value, and some tracks I used to adore ten years ago I might be tired of, like THE FINAL.

 

I have often said that S is their worst track in my opinion, but at the moment I think The Domestic Fucker Family is worse.

 

The beauty of this kind of discussion is that no one is wrong. I'll just be silently judging everyone calling tracks like Я TO THE CORE and HYDRA -666- bad.

[emmny 4139]

oh i also really dont like dead tree for some reason lol it sounds stale and reminds me of pasty white people

[Crube 585]

 

I really wish I could delve into the "leftover" subject/topic, seeing as DEG has a penchant for leaving tracks that didn't make the cut for later ventures (e.g. Ain't Afraid to Die is from MACABRE sessions, CLEVER SLEAZOID is from WtD sessions, DOZING GREEN is a MOAB leftover) - but I bet most people don't care about that kind of stuff so I will shut up for a while

 

I wouldn't really call it leftover, but more or less the band playing to the albums style before venturing forth into the new album. (If that makes sense.) Kind of like how Hageshisa has that UROBOROS sound mostly because of how the guitars were tuned at the time of recording the single.

[DogManX 179]

I've always found the whole "this sounds AMERICAN" opinion to singlehandedly be the laziest excuse I've ever read on a J-Rock forum. This sentiment is always meant in a negative light to imply a song is somehow "inferior" because it doesn't sound "Japanese".

 

Here's the one big problem with this argument: all of the music discussed here follows Western harmony. There is literally zero difference between the music any Japanese band makes vs. any other Pop band in the world outside of language.

 

This whole "Americanized" argument is just a lazy excuse presented by someone who has 0 knowledge of the music they're discussing. Something "sounding American" is just another way of saying "I don't like this style of music" except far more pretentious.

 

Ah, the academic again. Well, your first premise gets it wrong already. And you're just as lazy "deciphering" my argument in the way you think it was meant, and leaving it there. Dude, people are different than text sheets. They will actually ANSWER.

 

Secondly, well. If your perception of music doesn't allow you to actually differenciate between genres, and their ways of using harmonics as well as linguistic traits, then you could say as well that every music in the world is the same because everytime you just create a pattern of sounds... so why bother to take a closer look..? What is the music we're discussing? Dir en grey. In relation to what? Western, mostly american ROCK music. Just because it falls under the category of Pop doesn't necessarily oblige you to just throw it all together. In just the same ways people differenciate between european or american death metal. But they must surely be wrong, because it's all metal or rock or pop.. well, all the same. Doesn't it? It's not that easy dude. Westcoast or eastcoast rap.. it's all hiphop... 

 

Japanese rock music does have its own traits. Surely it originated from western/american styles, but in many ways it took different directions after that. Starting at the range of styles within one single output, continuing with rhythmic arrangements typically fit to japanese language, and eventually usage of arrangements that may be long out-dated in western hemispheres. And all within your perfect analogy that the basic "western harmony" is still the same.

There's a reason people are fascinated with japanese rock, or even give up everything for it. You'll often hear people explain "it sounds so different" may it be related to arrangements, moods or just the language. Are all these people wrong because their non-academic status doesn't give them the right to express this notion, or they're all just too stupid or lazy to explain it..except of you, of course?

 

I don't discredit TMOAB *or* WtD for its very western/american influences. It was not meant as a negative argument, but as an argument to show that all this TMOAB bashing for its influences is ridiculous when at the same time you love WtD with those very traits, except the fact that WtD just suits you better. It's a stupid argument, I agree with you. But I didn't intend to make it. And I don't dislike the final for its influence, but because I find it boring as hell. And I find all these people funny who swear on japanese rock bands, but love to death that one song that could have been made by every generous american rock band there is.

 

EDIT oh my god I'm so not in the mood for this please don't reply haha. I hate Dunning Kruger discussions. But I was right about 3/4 of the time!!

[relentless 254]

DogManX, if I was specifically addressing anything you said, I would have quoted you and answered you directly. Unfortunately, I wasn't. I was speaking in a general sense because the conversation reminded me of the sentiment I addressed above.

 

BUT, I will answer one specific thing which I think you misinterpreted.

 

 

Secondly, well. If your perception of music doesn't allow you to actually differenciate between genres, and their ways of using harmonics as well as linguistic traits, then you could say as well that every music in the world is the same because everytime you just create a pattern of sounds... so why bother to take a closer look..? What is the music we're discussing? Dir en grey. In relation to what? Western, mostly american ROCK music. Just because it falls under the category of Pop doesn't necessarily oblige you to just throw it all together. In just the same ways people differenciate between european or american death metal. But they must surely be wrong, because it's all metal or rock or pop.. well, all the same. Doesn't it? It's not that easy dude. Westcoast or eastcoast rap.. it's all hiphop...

 

I'm not talking about genres of music, I'm talking about Harmony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony), and Tonality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonality) as being the same across bands from different regions and genres throughout Popular Music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_music). My point was not  "oh, all these genres are really the same at the end of the day", no, genres are great at categorizing all different musical styles. It was that there is no inherent quality that musically distinguishes "American Metal / Western Metal" from "Japanese Metal" when in terms of their harmony, they are identical. The only thing that you can reliably use to distinguish them, is language.

[DogManX 179]

I'm really sorry dude I was wondering why you liked my comment and then this... (...). Yeah I actually knew where you were getting at with harmony, and I also wrote I agree with you on that. I just set up a poor analogy

[relentless 254]

<3

[Ro plz 1290]

Swift death to anyone hating on "the Inferno" lmao.

 

One of the best songs on ARCHE. Its awesome because of how jam session-ish/simple it is. 

[DogManX 179]

Yeah I agree. It's a good track definitely. So hypnotic!

[nullmoon 784]

It's miles above the crap fest that was Decayed Crow.

[WhirlingBlack 1043]

DECAYED CROW is an excellent live track, though.

[Pretsy 1343]

Jam session-ish? Looks like I missed something...

 

Either way:

 

Decayed Crow (remix by NARASAKI) > Decayed Crow > Decayed Crow (remix) > ... > The inferNAWHELLNO

Narasaki made the song much radder than it was earlier

[nullmoon 784]

yes! The Dum Spiro Spero Budokan bonus CD is a full of unplugged/remixed tracks of the originals

Enjoy.

Sweet, thanks!