Tropes in visual kei that you can't stand?

[Ruri 278]

Please lock this if there's already a thread like this, I didn't notice one.

 

This thread is for things that come up often in visual kei that you personally can't stand. Can be related to the music itself, fashion, song names, artist names, whatever.

 

For me, it's whispering. It just sounds so weird to me, it's usually some heavy djent-like rhythm with the vocalist whispering over it, it doesn't feel like it fits. Also, when a vocalist is a really good singer but a bad screamer, and the band still does entire songs where he does nothing but scream. Like, you should know your strengths and weaknesses (；´Д｀) I usually skip those unless there's some amazing guitar work or something.

[anakuro 847]

i'm just not big on the 女形 (onna gata) thing, personally.

I just don't get the appeal......

[Jigsaw9 6783]

When vocalists do the silly "br00tal" growling/grunting thing like it's supposed to be MANDATORY to have a verse or two like that in your song. I'm not saying it doesn't have its place in vk, but more and more I hear bands over-use it without much purpose, just as a boring template.

 

Oh, and when an otherwise mid-to-fast-paced song's chorus is suddenly all slowwww and laaaazyyyy. I don't know who started this, but I found it most typical of GazettE back when I started noticing it popping up here and there, and now almost every band has a couple tracks like this.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Jigsaw9

[Hakari 282]

25 minutes ago, Jigsaw9 said:

When vocalists do the silly "br00tal" growling/grunting thing like it's supposed to be MANDATORY to have a verse or two like that in your song. I'm not saying it doesn't have its place in vk, but more and more I hear bands over-use it without much purpose, just as a boring template.

 

Oh, and when an otherwise mid-to-fast-paced song's chorus is suddenly all slowwww and laaaazyyyy. I don't know who started this, but I found it most typical of GazettE back when I started noticing it popping up here and there, and now almost every band has a couple tracks like this.

 

But...but...but it's so much more brootal metalz when they do that.

 

I hate it when a band has a really great rift and the screamer ruins it with awful vocal progression. Sometimes screaming in VK is just god awful.

[Ruri 278]

25 minutes ago, Hakari said:

Sometimes Usually screaming in VK is just god awful.

 

 

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

Two things

 

Reality:  The upcoming Morrigan album is a good example. Any sort of romantic ideal you might have in your head about these guys just going out there to express themselves in sexy angry music and nais hairs and heavy makeup crumbles down when bands pull shit like this. Really releasing an album that's essentially a compilation shows a complete lack of vision, ambition and concern for their own image and legacy. The curtain has been pulled back and the money grubbing hackery is exposed in clear daylight. The profit margin unfortunately is part and parcel of visual kei, and it works to the scene's detriment. 

 

The other thing is when these bands bust out the _traditional_ Japanese instruments to give a song some corny folk ornamentation. The worst recent offender I can think of was Avelcain. It wouldn't be as bad if the music actually treated the concept with some respect instead of hamming in a melody that sounds like it was composed for a TV advertisement about frozen chinese food. It's so fucking bad, like it's literally the same if a Finnish band played around with Kalevala image and dressed up in fucking furs and tar face paint, which is made all the more worse by the fact that there are bands that actually do that. For me personally the experience of seeing these bands is what a person from India ( pardon the generalisation, I know it's an infinitely diverse country ) would feel if he saw a band doing a concept album about the kamasutra while dressed up like Apu from the Simpsons. 

 

 

[Ruri 278]

1 minute ago, Disposable said:

Two things

 

Reality:  The upcoming Morrigan album is a good example. Any sort of romantic ideal you might have in your head about these guys just going out there to express themselves in sexy angry music and nais hairs and heavy makeup crumbles down when bands pull shit like this. Really releasing an album that's essentially a compilation shows a complete lack of vision, ambition and concern for their own image and legacy. The curtain has been pulled back and the money grubbing hackery is exposed in clear daylight. The profit margin unfortunately is part and parcel of visual kei, and it works to the scene's detriment. 

 

The other thing is when these bands bust out the _traditional_ Japanese instruments to give a song some corny folk ornamentation. The worst recent offender I can think of was Avelcain. It wouldn't be as bad if the music actually treated the concept with some respect instead of hamming in a melody that sounds like it was composed for a TV advertisement about frozen chinese food. It's so fucking bad, like it's literally the same if a Finnish band played around with Kalevala image and dressed up in fucking furs and tar face paint, which is made all the more worse by the fact that there are bands that actually do that. For me personally the experience of seeing these bands is what a person from India ( pardon the generalisation, I know it's an infinitely diverse country ) would feel if he saw a band doing a concept album about the kamasutra while dressed up like Apu from the Simpsons. 

 

 

 

The compilation thing kind of annoys me because I like Morrigan and really want them to be something great. Sadly the profit margins are a pretty big part of any music scene that isn't completely DIY like underground hardcore punk, because it sustains the bands and the labels. I'm more inclined to support bands that don't pull silly shit to wring the money out of fangirls' pockets, though. Just release new music every so often and let your musical talents and showmanship pay for it.

 

I love traditional instrumentation and concepts in VK (Kiryu being one of my all-time favourite VK bands) because I love that kind of thing in general. But I agree, it can be done extremely poorly. I haven't heard the song where avelcain did it, I'm gonna look for that now because I feel like cringing.

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

4 minutes ago, Ruri said:

 

The compilation thing kind of annoys me because I like Morrigan and really want them to be something great. Sadly the profit margins are a pretty big part of any music scene that isn't completely DIY like underground hardcore punk, because it sustains the bands and the labels. I'm more inclined to support bands that don't pull silly shit to wring the money out of fangirls' pockets, though. Just release new music every so often and let your musical talents and showmanship pay for it.

 

I love traditional instrumentation and concepts in VK (Kiryu being one of my all-time favourite VK bands) because I love that kind of thing in general. But I agree, it can be done extremely poorly. I haven't heard the song where avelcain did it, I'm gonna look for that now because I feel like cringing.

 

They have plenty, but here's one

 

This shit really is the bane of my existence. It's like a visual kei version of South Park's City Wok bit. 

[Ruri 278]

5 minutes ago, Disposable said:

 

They have plenty, but here's one

 

This shit really is the bane of my existence. It's like a visual kei version of South Park's City Wok bit. 

 

Ah, I'm not really familiar with them.

 

Yeah, this really isn't very well integrated. You're either doing the traditional imagery thing or you're not, don't half-ass it :/

[nekkichi 6043]

3 hours ago, Ruri said:

This thread is for things that come up often in visual kei that you personally can't stand.

remember when every other indie VK PV was filmed in a white room? that's it for me. also, undercode bands (rip bih)

 

2 hours ago, Disposable said:

like it's literally the same if a Finnish band played around with Kalevala image and dressed up in fucking furs and tar face paint, which is made all the more worse by the fact that there are bands that actually do that. 

 

here for this tbh

[itsukoii 1300]

THAT GODDAMN CHURCH

[suji 8317]

Having to buy the same release 50 fucking times at different stores just to get certain privilege merch that aren't available anywhere else (ie, photosets, live footage, etc.). So over this bullshit.

 

4 hours ago, anakuro said:

i'm just not big on the 女形 (onna gata) thing, personally.

I just don't get the appeal......

 

Edited September 10, 2016 by midi:nette

[chemicalpictures 1888]

5 hours ago, Disposable said:

Two things

 

Reality:  The upcoming Morrigan album is a good example. Any sort of romantic ideal you might have in your head about these guys just going out there to express themselves in sexy angry music and nais hairs and heavy makeup crumbles down when bands pull shit like this. Really releasing an album that's essentially a compilation shows a complete lack of vision, ambition and concern for their own image and legacy. The curtain has been pulled back and the money grubbing hackery is exposed in clear daylight. The profit margin unfortunately is part and parcel of visual kei, and it works to the scene's detriment. 

 

 

I actually find that same thing one of the best things in japanese music overall... Western bands usually releases one album every two, three years, even more. Then go on releasing singles for the songs on that album for quite a long time. Japanese bands do just the opposite. It's good for the fans who will always something new to listen every few months, bands can make a living for that period, and the full album is nothing more than the state the band is now. After that, the cycle starts all over. If they did like the west (Album first, then capitalize on the singles) would be pretty much pointless, since they usually offer a new b-side track, while western bands rarely do so

[Ruri 278]

4 minutes ago, chemicalpictures said:

 

I actually find that same thing one of the best things in japanese music overall... Western bands usually releases one album every two, three years, even more. Then go on releasing singles for the songs on that album for quite a long time. Japanese bands do just the opposite. It's good for the fans who will always something new to listen every few months, bands can make a living for that period, and the full album is nothing more than the state the band is now. After that, the cycle starts all over. If they did like the west (Album first, then capitalize on the singles) would be pretty much pointless, since they usually offer a new b-side track, while western bands rarely do so

 

I admire that j-rock bands bash out songs constantly, but only if they at least do something different or develop their sound as they go on. It's easy to get burnt out on following a band if they're just recording the same song with different lyrics and a different synth preset every time.

[gekiai 231]

5 hours ago, Ruri said:

 

I admire that j-rock bands bash out songs constantly, but only if they at least do something different or develop their sound as they go on. It's easy to get burnt out on following a band if they're just recording the same song with different lyrics and a different synth preset every time.

 

This is exactly how I feel. Except I see more often then not bands that try to grip onto relevance by releasing new stuff at lightning speed, and they usually aren't anything special. Usually causes me to not look forward to their next release because I just see it as a ploy to get more money in shorter amounts of time and pandering to the fans that don't give af about their music, just their looks...and that ain't me.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by gekiai

[saltofstones 136]

I'm not sure how to explain it but I feel like VK has a problem with  choruses. So often I hear songs that sound amazing only to be ruined by a boring chorus that doesn't seem to organically connect with the rest of the song, sounds uncharacteristically happy like an explosion of kittens and rainbows in musical form or is just bland and lacks the kind of punch you would expect from a chorus. Then when it's time to go back to the verses, the transition is all awkward. To me, the verses and bridge are usually more memorable than the choruses and I only seem to have this experience with VK. When I listen to a new song and it's shaping up to be a good one, I always have this concern that they'll go for this type of chorus and ruin everything and more often than not I am right. A good example of this would be SCAPEGOAT - 幼女A~Hide and Seek~ . Their Nemurenai something song is the same. It's frustrating to have everything in a song work except the chorus.

[ぺるしゃ猫 67]

1 hour ago, saltofstones said:

I'm not sure how to explain it but I feel like VK has a problem with  choruses. So often I hear songs that sound amazing only to be ruined by a boring chorus that doesn't seem to organically connect with the rest of the song, sounds uncharacteristically happy like an explosion of kittens and rainbows in musical form or is just bland and lacks the kind of punch you would expect from a chorus. Then when it's time to go back to the verses, the transition is all awkward. To me, the verses and bridge are usually more memorable than the choruses and I only seem to have this experience with VK. When I listen to a new song and it's shaping up to be a good one, I always have this concern that they'll go for this type of chorus and ruin everything and more often than not I am right. A good example of this would be SCAPEGOAT - 幼女A~Hide and Seek~ . Their Nemurenai something song is the same. It's frustrating to have everything in a song work except the chorus.

 THIS when I first started listening to VK I was like "wtf why do all their choruses sound like crap compared to the beginning?" LOL compared to Dir en grey (the band I started listening to vk with who imo got better at the choruses) but now I'm totally used to it

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

Vkei bands can be pretty awful at phrasing musical ideas. Sometimes they don't have melodies that flow well into each other, so they are strung together in an awkward sequence of messy themes that probably should be in different songs altogether ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

Agreeing with the happy chorus comment, although disagreeing with that particular Scapegoat example. Aicle. were notorious for this and that's the main reason why I only like them instead of stanned them: fantastic guitar work and weird compositions, but once the chorus hit all of that pent-up quirkiness is wasted on a generic happy-go-lucky melody that doesn't even sound like the rest of the song.

[nekkichi 6043]

are there any other examples of this "weak chorus" thing? I really fail to find a single good thing about that scapegoat song (chorus might in fact be the only listenable part of it.)

 

one thing I do know for sure that stanning the RIGHT bands is a guarantee one never runs out of amazing, brilliant, talented, inspired choruses.

Edited September 11, 2016 by nekkichi

[fitear1590 2414]

This fucking grating trebly synth that so many neo VK bands insist on using.

Even the VK electronic gods DIV succumbed to this filth in one of their later tracks.

[doombox 4421]

With the bi-polar choruses and overused guitar riffs, more and more its obvious some bands write purely for what furi arrangements can be made to the song, without worrying so much if the songs actually sounds good or pushes any creativity. And like with Aicle, I think some bands might have been scared to go 100% off the deep end so a 'danceable' chorus gets thrown in so the fans still have something familiar they can create furi to. At least, that's what it always felt like to me.

[nekkichi 6043]

12 minutes ago, fitear1590 said:

This fucking grating trebly synth that so many neo VK bands insist on using.

ohhhh good one

 

flopgamesh are guilty of this too

[Deathtopi4 428]

Multiple versions of CDs with different songs on them irritate me so much. Like, make as many versions as you want with different bonus DVDs or whatever else, I don't really care, but there should always be one version of the album available to buy that has ALL the songs from the release on it. That's all I ask lol. Also, kinda the same thing but putting out Itunes versions of the releases that don't have all the songs on them. Like I'll probably buy something right off the bat from Itunes if it's got all the songs, but if it's missing a song or two I'll likely just pass it up and wait until I have the money for a physical copy with every song. And since currently I'm pretty much just buying digital releases to save some money, that's probably going to be long wait >.<

[Ruri 278]

12 minutes ago, fitear1590 said:

This fucking grating trebly synth that so many neo VK bands insist on using.

Even the VK electronic gods DIV succumbed to this filth in one of their later tracks.

 

I swear that synth is going to be the "what were they thinking" thing that we look back on in 5 years.

[suji 8317]

39 minutes ago, fitear1590 said:

This fucking grating trebly synth that so many neo VK bands insist on using.

Even the VK electronic gods DIV succumbed to this filth in one of their later tracks.

 

FUCKING THANK YOU.

 

Probably the WORST thing in visual kei today.