saiko

Yokan is fucking great, though.

the funny thing is that those aren't by far their most listened songs on spotify, they're just at the top for no reason at all lol

Why do Japanese have to call themselves selfish everytime they manifest they have a dream or goal in life of their own. They seem to be in need to force themselves to prove the other that they actually feel guilty about it.

they're... they're selling takuya's guitar
i???
 
and it's cheaper than karma's paintings lmfaooo

For 80,000 yen Karma will DM you a video of himself crying

Yeah I also thought this was super mediocre, and my enjoyment of their two prior singles had a good helping of wishful thinking and good will. As much as I still do like the A-sides from those, I have to say there isn't really anything there that puts them over other recent stuff from the scene that I like for me. I just love Ai's voice and aesthetic enough to color inbetween the lines thinking all of this is just a prelude to a sick second act where they bring out the big guns. 
 
Real talk: what's here are middle of the road heavy riffs that Ai is able to elevate into something that's kind of cool. The two metalcore riffs are nothing that we don't see from all the other bands too. What I wanted from this band was Ai to go all in, abandon the uwa uwa Korn shit and sing that undead school boy haunting the country road from school when the moon is full and cicadas sing shit. Maybe some Grieva-esque old school riffs too, creepy stuff like what KtK was every once in a while. Sousaku Negai, Hesonoo, you know that stuff. So far this imo just a shittier and occasionally poppier KtK that also has metalcore riffs. 
 
fourth track 0.51- is also without a doubt from something else. the fucking la la la part too I reckon. 

Agree with disposable...they sound too formulaic. I remember when KtK debuted with Yokusou single,that shit left me in the corner asking myself wtf happened. Like he said,Gulu Gulu just sounds like a poppier version of KtK, which is frustrating af. For while I can be satisfied simply with the fact that Ai didn't give up and still around making music instead of disappearing into the void of anonymity.
 
 
 

you're comparing baroque in their signed to avex sissified state post losing two founding members to their up and coming start and major singles curated by dynamite tommy at the height of freewill giving their artists some options whew
 
maybe instead try boogieman which was a short-lived annoying brainchild of baroque's akira and bansaku + kagerou's yuana on her typical cockdestroyer jush, with a pierrot roadie vocalistè per their start:
 
and a switch in style towards what baroque could still sound for their short-lived 2nd phase after:
if you followed Kei and his snoozey music projects you'll know BRQ is not ghostwritten, it's just the shit that fits their current label best and they seem happy to chug it out.

I'm far from an old hand in the fandom but I think I know what you're getting at. I’m actually gonna invert the question order because my thought process caused 2 to lead to 1:
 
2) From my perspective, Idol Kei is made up of Kawaii af Oshare Kei bands that don’t have a special sound to them and sound like they could’ve been mass-produced.  They're really successful despite being run of the mill and may just be industry plants. I don’t want to name names because it's just conjecture and they could be innocent. One of the biggest indicators, to me, is a lack of previous band history, i.e this is either their first or second band they’ve been a part of. It’s usually never more. It’s especially telling if they never had some dumbass high school garage band that was… Well, doing something. Or in the rare exceptions like Lunacy, showing some real promise and raw talent that just needs to be polished up. Tangent note, I’ve noticed in the VK fandom that we’re anal af about listing out a member’s previous band history. I’ve seen people write out band histories that span like 10 different bands for each member in forums and comments sections. Could this be a by-product of wanting to see the artistic process and evolution, or to check for industry plants? Well, that’s just conjecture...
 
1) That leads me to here. Stuff that makes me think, “Huh, is a debut band like this really making stuff that sounds this polished already? And damn, they kinda sound just like [some other band that sounds generic]” makes me wonder if they really did write it. One big indicator that a band isn’t ghostwritten is when the band members have a history that I can follow around. When I follow that history, I can usually find patterns in songwriting that trace to one member. Such as a love for that new wave sound he grew up with as a teen or a jazz influence from his formal lessons. Also, artistic evolution is a big indicator of a band being 100% "real", if you will, such as incorporating different genre elements as time goes by or being able to hear their music evolve as the members gain more experience with writing and performing songs.
 
3) That’s… Tricky. I’d go back as far as the early 2000s when An cafe existed, but were they really that manufactured? Maybe later then, but then I wouldn’t really know what year exactly. The jury’s out on this one 

4) As biased as I am to old school stuff and underground stuff that sounds like it was recorded on the vocalist’s bootleg Chinese Yak-Bak, I still listen to new school stuff, occasionally even bands that I think could be ghost written. It's cute and danceable, and it's usually written competently so it's not technically bad. Besides, sometimes I just need a break from the concept pieces and experimental songs from angura bands I love, ya know? Nothing wrong with that.
 
5) Every genre and scene deals with ghostwriting, even ones where literally all you write are the lyrics (big lol @ rap ghostwriting considering that in this day and age you can just read the writing on the wi-fi router and slap a trap beat over it to make a hit), I think VK won’t be negatively impacted by this by too much. Besides, it's not like these sickeningly saccharine sweet boy groups claim to be high art or some shit. There’s so much more that could seriously shoot VK in the foot, like continuing cute but ancient industry practices until the whole damn industry collapses.
 
6) I listen to lots more than just Visual Kei, but it’s still my #1 ever since I discovered it a few years ago. I wrote a long-ass paragraph on this in another thread but here’s a TL;DR:
- Jrock chords, baby, I want that shit injected into my bloodstream. They are actually really different from the Western pop chords. I’m no music major so I’ll spare you the half-assed music theory lesson and simply compare them in layman’s terms. Jrock chords are like a “question and answer” type of progression that resolves itself in an intrinsically… pleasant manner? It provides the question to the answer, simply. Western pop is like a “whole statement” type of progression, it’s meant to add more statements on to it.
- I love the looks a lot, they make the PVs so much more fun to watch! VK to me is more than looking pretty, it’s about expressing the meaning of the music through the use of visuals, using it as a compliment to the lyrics or even just with the actual song structure.
- I like how the lyrics are so much more subtle than in English. I know that it's a by-product of how Japanese is as a language when compared to English, but even still, I'm gonna argue this one because I have translated songs (mostly in my head these days) before and their subtle meanings don't get completely lost in translation, the thought process still stays intact in English. It’s actually kind of ruined English songs for me in all honesty because now many sound like “Hurr-Durr, I have to actually tell you how to feel about what I just said instead of letting you interpret it or understand the implications”. I could go on a rant about this shit. But let’s just say an English artist would say “I killed myself then everyone was sad” and a Japanese artist would say “[I was] erased from this earth, a fact that your tears tried to blur out”. I understand that being vague is upsetting to some but I feel like spelling it out so bluntly like so many western artists do is insulting to the listener’s intelligence. Or at least my intelligence…

Bless this thread. 

Perhaps we could move the discussion about ghostwriting to this thread. Recently I've been watching the topic pop up very often, so maybe many of you guys would like to talk about it.
 
Maybe we could start by each one making up a list of the artists or songs or whatever stuff you consider useful to explain to somebody how ghostwritten music looks like and how not-ghostwritten music differentiates from it.
 
In my case, I think I caught a nice example while yesterday looking up for old classic I've never had the chance to try. It was the case for baroque. The contrast between their A-sides before disbanding and after their comeback screams idolization so loud that I couldn't believe my ears.
 
 
 
 
One doesn't need critical music-listening skills to appreciate, in one hand, in the pre-come-back songs, the experimental nature of the trashy and psychedelic arrengments in every song (and what amazes me the most is that these songs, as A-sides, where intended to serve for promotional, commercial, issues!); and in the other hand, the almost complete submission of every musical arrange, and even their looks, to a very well-known, standarized, Johnny'sesque aesthetic, in order to appeal to the recent younger fandom. The differences are so abysmal, and kinda scary, imo... from early century neo-Tokyo punks, to creamy-sweaty-ribbon-shotacon manga characters...
 
Anyway, and don't willing to enter into much musical details, further than what can be clearly seen in the example above, I think an indication of not-ghostwritten could be the lack of imitation of a song style as a whole. Let's say, a not-ghostwritten song would be one that, although you could clearly identify well-known music trends in it (a punk sound, a nu metal sound, etc.), or even previously famous artists signature arrangments (a Sugizoesque kind of solo, etc.), still sounds fresh while displaying said features in a way that you definitely know it wasn't heard/seen before. Inspiration is always there, nobody creates something from nothingness itself, but that doesn't mean you can't make your own version of it and through that create something unique.
 
Here are some songs that I returned to after a long time not listening to them. After being triggered with the whole baroque thing, I started to look up for '01~'05 releases, and hell... say what we know, VK was always about dragging otaku girls into fandom while displaying androgynous looks, so it always had a commercial approach inherent to it, and also bandomen were all chinpira prostitutes who knowed little about playing actual music, blabla... all of that is true to an extent, but those facts shouldn't deny that there actually was people trying to express themselves in their own way, even if the results where amateur and unpolished, and even if they signed a major contract and started to make their sound and appearance more appealing to mainstream...
 
 

I've been wanting to discuss this topic for a long time. Fundamentally since, in the last ten years or so, the ratio of what in this forum has been called "formulaic VK stuff" has increased considerably, which, on the other hand it is closely linked to a phenomenon that has also recently appeared, and that in this forum has been called "idol kei". Of course, as many here quote repeatedly, the abandonment of adolescence does not cease to be a powerful motive in this situation, since it makes the condition of possibility (necessary, though not sufficient) so that one can remove the veils of idealization deposited on certain music or artist (and realize how badly done or executed some productions were; for me an example of it was Ryohei-era ayabie). Finally, in the verge of the end of the decade, another reason is my concern about the fate of the VK in the 2020's, considering that since the second half of the '10 has not thrown some real "quality" or "novelty", something that can be established at the level of "classic", as it actually happened with some releases put out in the period of 2008-2013.
 
It is not easy to discuss all these issues, I imagine, for several issues: perhaps it can hurt the emotions of some users of this forum who, in fact, are very comfortable enjoying the said idealization of certain artists. On the other hand, talking about this with some minimum measure of ownership requires a listening by a broad repertoire of VK, which has at least something from each of its eras (at least the "classics"). And also, it requires some knowledge (at least intuition) about aspects related to composition, instrumental performance, recording, live performance, the dynamics of the consumer market, etc.
 
As, to my pleasant surprise, I have found in this forum people who speak (or at least try) from this knowledge, is that I come to open this thread here in MH. Anyway, I hope that no one is deprived of writing here, contributing from what he/she has and his/her interests.
 
I think that it is best to start on by discussing some basic concepts, instead of directly delving into anything else:
 
1) What are the indicators that make a song "ghostwritten" for you? And that it is not?
2) What are the indicators that make a band "idol kei"? And that it is not?
3) Where would you put its birth date?
4) Do they qualify as "good music" or not? Do you enjoy them? Do not? 
5) Does it seem to you that this certain music goes "against" (to put it somehow) of certain "well-being" of the scene, or of the music itself?
6) Why are you still listening to VK in the 2010s? Are your reasons the same as before? What does it give you that other music does not give you?
 
I read you!

This is a very good analysis and I don't have anything to add to that specifically, but I will say one thing: it seems like the general idea is that it's only the bands in the current scene that are basically labels' puppets who don't write their own music, and albeit this is definitely true in some cases, I feel like this has pretty much always been a thing in vk? I remember that interview from years ago from an insider in the industry talking about older bands of the 90's- early 00's, and there was talk about bands using ghost-writers even then.
 
In my opinion, if you wanna make sure that bands write their own music, stick to indies or at least follow the bands closely enough to know if they ever post about their composition process and stuff like that. Most bands I follow often post previews of the music they've been writing and stuff like that, so I don't even question it. That and of course pay attention to their evolution and sound and past bands and stuff like that, like most people have said. Basically, keep your eyes open.

Perhaps we could move the discussion about ghostwriting to this thread. Recently I've been watching the topic pop up very often, so maybe many of you guys would like to talk about it.
 
Maybe we could start by each one making up a list of the artists or songs or whatever stuff you consider useful to explain to somebody how ghostwritten music looks like and how not-ghostwritten music differentiates from it.
 
In my case, I think I caught a nice example while yesterday looking up for old classic I've never had the chance to try. It was the case for baroque. The contrast between their A-sides before disbanding and after their comeback screams idolization so loud that I couldn't believe my ears.
 
 
 
 
One doesn't need critical music-listening skills to appreciate, in one hand, in the pre-come-back songs, the experimental nature of the trashy and psychedelic arrengments in every song (and what amazes me the most is that these songs, as A-sides, where intended to serve for promotional, commercial, issues!); and in the other hand, the almost complete submission of every musical arrange, and even their looks, to a very well-known, standarized, Johnny'sesque aesthetic, in order to appeal to the recent younger fandom. The differences are so abysmal, and kinda scary, imo... from early century neo-Tokyo punks, to creamy-sweaty-ribbon-shotacon manga characters...
 
Anyway, and don't willing to enter into much musical details, further than what can be clearly seen in the example above, I think an indication of not-ghostwritten could be the lack of imitation of a song style as a whole. Let's say, a not-ghostwritten song would be one that, although you could clearly identify well-known music trends in it (a punk sound, a nu metal sound, etc.), or even previously famous artists signature arrangments (a Sugizoesque kind of solo, etc.), still sounds fresh while displaying said features in a way that you definitely know it wasn't heard/seen before. Inspiration is always there, nobody creates something from nothingness itself, but that doesn't mean you can't make your own version of it and through that create something unique.
 
Here are some songs that I returned to after a long time not listening to them. After being triggered with the whole baroque thing, I started to look up for '01~'05 releases, and hell... say what we know, VK was always about dragging otaku girls into fandom while displaying androgynous looks, so it always had a commercial approach inherent to it, and also bandomen were all chinpira prostitutes who knowed little about playing actual music, blabla... all of that is true to an extent, but those facts shouldn't deny that there actually was people trying to express themselves in their own way, even if the results where amateur and unpolished, and even if they signed a major contract and started to make their sound and appearance more appealing to mainstream...
 
 

Perhaps we could move the discussion about ghostwriting to this thread. Recently I've been watching the topic pop up very often, so maybe many of you guys would like to talk about it.
 
Maybe we could start by each one making up a list of the artists or songs or whatever stuff you consider useful to explain to somebody how ghostwritten music looks like and how not-ghostwritten music differentiates from it.
 
In my case, I think I caught a nice example while yesterday looking up for old classic I've never had the chance to try. It was the case for baroque. The contrast between their A-sides before disbanding and after their comeback screams idolization so loud that I couldn't believe my ears.
 
 
 
 
One doesn't need critical music-listening skills to appreciate, in one hand, in the pre-come-back songs, the experimental nature of the trashy and psychedelic arrengments in every song (and what amazes me the most is that these songs, as A-sides, where intended to serve for promotional, commercial, issues!); and in the other hand, the almost complete submission of every musical arrange, and even their looks, to a very well-known, standarized, Johnny'sesque aesthetic, in order to appeal to the recent younger fandom. The differences are so abysmal, and kinda scary, imo... from early century neo-Tokyo punks, to creamy-sweaty-ribbon-shotacon manga characters...
 
Anyway, and don't willing to enter into much musical details, further than what can be clearly seen in the example above, I think an indication of not-ghostwritten could be the lack of imitation of a song style as a whole. Let's say, a not-ghostwritten song would be one that, although you could clearly identify well-known music trends in it (a punk sound, a nu metal sound, etc.), or even previously famous artists signature arrangments (a Sugizoesque kind of solo, etc.), still sounds fresh while displaying said features in a way that you definitely know it wasn't heard/seen before. Inspiration is always there, nobody creates something from nothingness itself, but that doesn't mean you can't make your own version of it and through that create something unique.
 
Here are some songs that I returned to after a long time not listening to them. After being triggered with the whole baroque thing, I started to look up for '01~'05 releases, and hell... say what we know, VK was always about dragging otaku girls into fandom while displaying androgynous looks, so it always had a commercial approach inherent to it, and also bandomen were all chinpira prostitutes who knowed little about playing actual music, blabla... all of that is true to an extent, but those facts shouldn't deny that there actually was people trying to express themselves in their own way, even if the results where amateur and unpolished, and even if they signed a major contract and started to make their sound and appearance more appealing to mainstream...
 
 

"Our ghost writer quit"

visual kei is healing, we are the virus 😍

it's an easy listen, but objectively imo it's nothing special - the hype surrounding these guys makes it sound like they're the next big thing, but I honestly fail to see the appeal. the songs all sound the same other than 「悪人」and おやすみ。and I still cannot tell 火炎瓶 and 汚れた豚 apart after 5 or more listens. kagerou did the heavy thing with much more diversity and catchy tunes back in early 00s.
 
also the plagiarism in the chorus of 「悪人」is cheap and makes me hate it

Watched some documentaries, hell yeahh~
 
Fix: The Ministry Movie - Chronicles mostly the '96 tour of Ministry with some major drug abuse going on. I always thought of Al as kind of a funny lunatic (especially after reading his book) but here he was mostly obnoxious, pitiful and irritating. The doc itself was mostly okay but I had to struggle to get through some parts so all in all it didn't win me over completely.
 
Queercore: How to Punk a Revolution - A really interesting look into the so-called "queercore" punk movement that was basically just a handful of people in the beginning who managed to will the scene into existence by pretending it was a nation(or even world)wide phenomenon. Absolutely cool stuff, very nice talking-head segments (such as Bruce LaBruce, John Waters, Genesis P-Orridge, Kathleen Hanna etc.) and live footage both from queer and feminist punk bands.
 
Trixie Mattel: Moving Parts - Nice introspective look into a short period of drag queen Trixie's life on the road as a country/pop musician. His whole demeanor and attitude is just so funny and down-to-earth it's very easy to relate to him, even if obviously his way of life is totally different from mine, lol. Out of these three docs I watched this one flew by the quickest, it was very entertaining and cozy to watch (but I really like him and his drag persona to begin with so maybe that's why).

I've become quite a bore. I spend more time watching lectures and studies than I do "normal" entertainment stuff. Huldah is a wise sister and a good teacher tho. One of my favorite YT channels!
 
 

honestly pretty nuts they came out with kizuato, steroid, and 0 back to back to back those absolutely slapped. i still think stuff like jigoku and human error are sick but those 3 singles were their peak so far 

Sorry
 

These may be the most cursed images in VK history, not joking. At all. Thank you.

god i wish i could feel like any degree of optimism or positivity that wasn't at least half-faked again cuz it feels like it's been ages. can someone just drop the nukes already?

It is always a question of how far I can go without pissing some key figures off. Recently I tweeted in Japanese about these feelings towards the current seen and got around 600 likes, had lots of people DMing me saying they feel the same, but one person who does ghostwriter work got angry, can understand, we all gotta make a living.