Ikna

Who needs kids when you can have cats.
 

Well, Rozz Williams (Christian Death) kinda did something  similar back in the 80s/early 90s
 

 
But this might just be a coincidence. Rozz had some sort of influence on VK though. I think there was an interview of Baiser's Yukari where he stated that he was very much into Alien Sex Fiend and Christian Death and some of VKs root sound and looks can be traced back to deathrock music and fashion. But Kiyoharu, Kon and Co. might have also come up with that stuff all by themselves.
 

Who needs kids when you can have cats.
 

Who needs kids when you can have cats.
 

Who needs kids when you can have cats.
 

"new groove". I wish they would just stick to their old formula, which worked really well. Seriously, more synths and less growls please.

revive the thread with this nice post of Kyohei (showing him and Hisui back in the 90s/early 00s without make-up)
 
 
I really wonder how Hisui looks now…
 

Are you a gay man? Do you know gay guys? Because you sure are generalizing things based on your subjective "experience". And that whole "feminine men are not wanted by gay guys" thing falls apart even when you take it to reverse the orientation. If all gay and bi men only like men who are stereotypically masculine how come straight and bisexual women who are also into men can be attracted to androgynous and feminine guys? By your logic absolutely no one would be attracted to fem guys. And we all know that's not true.
 
Also go ask some of the gay guys here on MH if they find bandmembers hot. I am sure you will some crushing answers.

Are you a gay man? Do you know gay guys? Because you sure are generalizing things based on your subjective "experience". And that whole "feminine men are not wanted by gay guys" thing falls apart even when you take it to reverse the orientation. If all gay and bi men only like men who are stereotypically masculine how come straight and bisexual women who are also into men can be attracted to androgynous and feminine guys? By your logic absolutely no one would be attracted to fem guys. And we all know that's not true.
 
Also go ask some of the gay guys here on MH if they find bandmembers hot. I am sure you will some crushing answers.

Are you a gay man? Do you know gay guys? Because you sure are generalizing things based on your subjective "experience". And that whole "feminine men are not wanted by gay guys" thing falls apart even when you take it to reverse the orientation. If all gay and bi men only like men who are stereotypically masculine how come straight and bisexual women who are also into men can be attracted to androgynous and feminine guys? By your logic absolutely no one would be attracted to fem guys. And we all know that's not true.
 
Also go ask some of the gay guys here on MH if they find bandmembers hot. I am sure you will some crushing answers.

Well, it is a singer from a VK band and guess what, Vkei was influenced by GLAM.
Good VK = hot? So it's really not about the music, ok.
Also blackdoll, we have all already understood that you find old school to be shitty and pointless. You are writing the same argument again and again in any fucking thread that vaguely mentions oldschool bands (or is about old bands being covered by new ones, etc). It's okay now, you can calm down and fangirl/fanboy about Lycaon. No old skewl fanatic will stop you.
What i noticed so far in the thread: Kote kei elitists will never accept new VK and will always cry about it being shitty, too poppy, commercial and the bands looking like dumb hosts. And they will all sit in the corner waiting for new bands sounding like their indie superherous, like punks still wait for the revolution. (I know what I mean, I am kinfd of one of them)
And the Neo VK Fans will always make snarky remarks how old VK looked dumb and shit and how sexey and hotz the new bands are now. And that their production values and skills are better (something that even I agree with.)
 
And yeah, I am using those fucking labels. The reason: even though everyone seems to have a different understanding of Kote kei and Neo Vkei (since both are terms generated by fans, not bands or "experts") the majority of people will still understand what I mean, when I talk about Neo VK. Also it is horter than to say "the bands that came after those old skewl groups." Yeah, I am very lazy when I write my ass huge texts, so short terms and labels com very handy. I don't really care if the label is legit or if we have to rethink the concept in 10 years when contemporary bands are now considered old - for the time being it's totally practical.
And now to the "old band style coming back" thing: I am with the majority here. Old school VK is gone and over. That era will never repeat. Unlike  other music scenes that had more or less successfull revivals in the last years (see deathrock, post-punk and synthpop) old VK doesn't have enough fans to be revived. There is no big and strong "core" scene or community which is interested into forming and/or supporting bands playing in that style and there are no people who would help to build up a space and network for this style to flourish in the underground scene. VK itself isn't even a real scene and definitely not a subculture. There is no chance either that the early to mid 00s bands will have a revival and the type of VK that's popular now will vanish on day as well and be replaced by a new type of VK.
I also often heard that old VK was fitting to it's time. Every era has it's own feel and “Zeitgeist“ and of course musical and fashion trends. Old VK fitted into the 90s, because it was fitting into the feel of that era. We have the year 2014 now and the 2010s have a complete different feel and culture than the 90s. It's not easy to translate something from an older era into a new one without having to change it or at least adapt it ti the current circumstances. Old VK therefore wouldn't even work in the same way today as it did in the 90s. Too much has changed since then.
Of course there are bands like La'veil Mizeria or GAUZES, but they don't have a big following. They seem maybe too boring and "old" for the average VK listener, which is why their fanbase is way too small to bring them into the spotlight of popular music. Grieva may be the only ones who are successfull, but for me Grieva are more of a "modern old VK band". They defintely have the '99 spirit in their music, but they still sound somewhat modern. If they had only a  reportoire of songs like kikei they'd be spot on-old school VK, but with old Kuroyume inspired music alone you can't win the attention of people anymore. That's why they spice up everything with a bit of modern VK influences. Not that this is bad though. in fact I like it a lot and in my book they are doing it right. They have the right connection to the roots of VK, but they aren't totally backwards. (I don't want to discuss about the Dir en grey influence though, everthing has been said about it).
 
My faztít: the argument will go on until eternity and I too would like to see more old school bands. But i guess we can accept that it's dead and gone and should instead value what we have. There are enough old bands you can listen to. If you want to follow new bands and feel, that modern VK isn't yours, maybe try to go searching something you like outside of VK. This is mostly what I do and therefore I have no problem with no new VK bands being of any interest. On the other side: I may often come off as a hater, but I have nothing against modern VK bands. I just don't really like any aspect of 95% of them and I can't really get the hype around some bands, especially those Pop-rock Host kei groups. As I have said in this thread already: it's dependant on your preferences and what you like. Tastes are different and while I love old school aesthetics and music, another person may find it absolutely horrible. I can totally accept it, nobody has to like what I like. On the other hand I am not going to make mean spirited comments about how you suck for thinking the Gazette or Vivid (the new one) are the best bands that ever graced the scene. I may not agree with it, but you can love it as much as you want and defend your opinion.
 
I just dislike the strange climate between fans of old and new VK. It may be just me, but I have the feeling some people on the net (and here on MH) are extremely defensive when it comes to that topic and try to push down the fans of the other side. I am really sick and tired of users trying to turn every discussion into a bitchfight between oldschool and newschool lovers. I can't hear anymore the whole "But my (old or new) band would have done that better". And of course the whole "they looked like shit back then". It's as shitty and dumb as the "My band is better than yours. Your band sucks and therferoe your taste sucks!!! trololol" crap.
Sorry for writing a long text again. >_>
 

In my opinion THAT is actually what i really love about the old looks. Surely, the outfits were sometimes really silly and exaggerated and the make up sloppy, but i prefer it that way dozen times. Why? Because I feel the old styling looked more raw, dynamic and interesting. It wasn't the complete über-perfection which it is now, some guys looked like Drags, others like punks, the others like a bad version of Sayako from Ju-On. I really dislike how most vk make-up nowadys looks so polished, everything has to be precise and perfect from teint, complexion to eyes and the boring hairstyles.
It makes sense though - new VK guys rather look like Hosts (who are supposed to look like ultimate perfect bishonen straight from your wet manga fantasies) than frilly New Wave boys with Boy George make-up (or oh so spooky goths in drag).
I guess that's where everyone's opinion differs, depending on their taste and aesthetic preferences. I personally adore a well done old school make up (and I tell you - it's very very difficult. I've tried it a few times and it still looks rather "meh". You can fail pretty hard at a late 90s Matina/Soleil style make-up if you aren't really good with the tools. Also: see all early 00s cosplays. All the people who wanted to look like Mana or oldschool Kyo and failed epically...). Especially the white faces are my faves, because they can be expressive (almost Harlekin like), yet it doesn't really matter how beautiful the person is who wears it - they don't need to be super beautiful bishonen and the focus lies more on their style and make up.
Of course I can see and understand people who like new VK make up better. It's more polished, clean and it can be worn outside the stage in mundane life as well- so it is more versatile. Old VK styling is rather extreme and especially the outfits aren't supposed to be worn daily.
 
But I still miss this style though and I am happy a few groups now are still dressing that way.

I can totally relate to seikun with the "unique sound" thing.
But we have actually talked about this already in a few threads, I stated my opinion about it earlier here.
I know a lot of people (such as miyuu) will disagree with my stance on this. It is correct that old bands wanted to get their hands on girls and money too- but there is still a difference in having a vk idol who looks like a crazy fucking deliquent or idiot or having a vk idol who looks like a beautiful host boy.
I am one of those people who sees old visual kei as it's very own thing, while modern visual kei has become something entirely different. Visual kei today has it's origin in the early 2000s pile of mediocre indies band thing and you can still hear a bit the influences of these band's and older visual kei, such as Luna Sea or Kuroyume, but overall the modern Vk phenomenom doesn't share that much with the older bands. Both the music and fashion were very different, let alone the concept. When in old visual kei it was more about being rebellious, punx and radical today's visual kei is more about being fashionable, beautiful or about coolness. And while older visual kei was regarded odd, strange and maybe even dangerous, modern visual kei is part of the japanese mainstream. It's still not really accepted and people dressing up visual kei are still regarded as weirdos, but there is much more acceptance and the fashion is part of japanese capitalistic fashion industry.
I am not saying, that old visual kei bands really ended up being so radical and different and anti-mainstream, because they didn't. And I mostly base my argument on Kaorus and Sigizos opinion on modern visual kei-both have the same feeling about modern visual kei having a totally different "ideology" which surrounds more about fashion and clothes. And he also feels that visual kei will drastically change to a point it can't be called visual kei anymore. It's also interesting that both are indicating that modern visual kei bands don't express themselves anymore as musicians.
Of course their opinion is very subjective, but they have been members of two very well known and big visual kei bands. And maybe the "being different and rebellious" is true- but obviously more for the early and first visual kei bands and not for those copycats, that followed afterwards.

I personally consider old visual kei to be more creative and exciting than new visual kei. And I also consider it to be an actual genre- mainly because bands from the 80s to the mid and late 90s shared a lot of musical elments. Even when a band from the 80s would sound very different than a Matina band from 1998, you can still hear and see the connection.
There have been as much terrible bands in the 90s as today- but at least I do tolerate old horrible bands more than neo Vk horrible bands. Though I think it is hard to compare their levels of terribleness because of how different the indies bands of these two eras sound.

I am honest though with my "kote kei elitism". I've got into groups like Moi dix Mois, D'espairsray and Dir en grey first so I was actually more in the 2003-2005 years of visual kei. It was easy then for me to go back in time and find a liking to older bands- but I couldn't get into any new band after 2006. I was and am still too fond of the wannabe-edgy fake-goffick punk sound and look I learned to know from Mana, Kyo, Hisui and others and the mass of oshare or brightly cute and try-hard to be sexy bands just didn't appeal to me- let alone, that I can't stand Metalcore, new-modern Emo and cheesy Electro-Rock and in conclusion I have a big issue with all this "neo Visual kei" thing. There are only a few vk bands from today I like and I am not denying that I am very prejudiced about new bands.

Like others have said, I miss old school's outfits (as I like their ridiculous hairstyles, the unbearable amount of make up, the cross dressing, the "edgy" clothes) and I miss especially the darker indie bands. As crappy as they have been, their mix of gothic (even though a lot of "hardcore-goffs" try hard to prove that old schhol visual kei has no goth in it), punk, metal and glam created the crazy sound of screeching, hypnotic, flanging guitars, with a prominent bass (an underrated Instrument I love but rarely plays an important role in neo vk or modern pop music in general), fast drumming and of course the out of tune singing, which pendles between  (lovely) crappiness, horribleness or complete insanity. I also miss the "mental insanity" topic too. I just love when the vocalist loses his mind during a song and screams, mourns and moans like an idiot. It's super cheesy, but I like it. (seriously: neo vk is also very very cheesy. Just in different ways than the old vk bands.)
I have no problem with being stuck in the past. I enjoy listening to the old bands and there have been enough artists that I can listen to and never get tired. I can understand why some old school lovers are so frustrated about modern visual kei though. I wish there would be more Kote kei bands and that it would be more known and popular. I'd wish to talk with people who like visual kei about old bands and not get a blank stare when I mention Raphael or Malice Mizer.

I am afraid we will probably never come into terms. As Arithmetica said, it is hard to define old or new visual kei. We can see their differences though, but it is not easy to say that music of this era was more deep and musically better than another. Modern Vk too has surely great artists too- it is then a matter of taste what you will like or what bands you can relate to.

@jduv86 I am not really good when it comes to give recommendations, but I try.
Now it depends what kind of music you lean towards and what genres you would be willing to like or try out. But as you seem to like "heavier" bands I would suggest the more Metal-ish or Punk-rock bands, such as Mist of Rouge, Vasalla, Velladonna, Antique Doll, The Piass, AION (okay, they might be or not vk but I will list them though) and of course Madeth gray'll.
Other bands I will recommend to check out are ROUAGE, Laputa, Luna Sea, D'erlanger, La' Mule, Aliene Ma'riage, Baiser, Deshabillz, Mirage, 90s penicillin and Pierrot.
 

La'veil Mizeria will release their new single, "悲哀囀ル調べ" (hiai saezuru shirabe) (3 tracks) on November 22. They will also hold their single release tour on Nov 23 (Ikebukuro Cyber), Nov 30 (Holiday Next Nagoya), and Dec 1 (Osaka FANJ Twice), and will hold their tour final at Ikebukuro Cyber on December 14.
 
Their MV DVD, "Farewell" will also be distributed to those who attend their tour final.
 


 

Tss, these posers will NEVER be as cool as the trve Azalea:
 
 
 

Coincidence or homage?

Apparently the single has been freely distributed from various stores, ie. Brand X, Puresound, Jishuban Club, etc., since July 13 - dunno if this also applies to online purchases (such as how Bratbax's single was distributed). Quantities are also limited of course.
 
 
Another version of the single which also comes with a making-of DVD was also distributed at their live on July 22.
 

As of currently, Gossip, Diaura, Amanjaku. and MIZTAVLA are handled by Yukika. Possibly LIM as well. (although I believe that Gossip and Diaura are the only ones who are officially under the ains label). 

Exactly this. They really dropped one repetitive release after another and in such small time windows. Most of their songs are really same-ish, some are even simply rewrites with different lyrics. Yet, there was SO much potential in this band as demonstrated by their excellent V.A. tracks, it's a shame they simply couldn't make use of it and always fell back into old behavior, playing it safe.
 
So, it's sad to see them go, but it was so expected for it to happen. Hopefully the members join new kote/homage kei groups ;3
 
Also this means that gossip is the only band signed on ains, right? That label too had such a promising future, could have easily become the next UCP, but Yukika somehow throws that away and I am sure it won't be long until this ship sinks just like RR did.

way too many. def those you posted too, @AimiGen7. Gauze is a great album, Tsumi to Batsu is an absolute fav, as well as the other famous classics, like raison d'etre, ZAN, Schwein no isu and of course Mazohyst of decadence. Will forever be my fav Dir en grey album (and I will forever not get used to their remakes, except maybe for the new ZAN, since it does sound at least like the original)
 
Also seconding La'Mule. I prefer inspire and Sterilization over Curse though.
 
 
That PV too. Classic 2edgy 90s/early 00s cheese.
 
Madeth too had such amazing songs. For some reason i do not stan missantroop or Lucifer as much (as most other people do), instead I luv their album opener (+ the intro, because scary baby screams are the best in VK)
 
 
I generally have big soft spot for matina bands. Usually the dark and edgy stuff, but Syndrome delivered some good melodic tunes as well:
 
 
 
Do we also count the early 00s and newer (or recently formed) kote bands as oldschool? Like Shulla,Etcetera, Metis Gretel, La'veil Mizeria, etc.?
 
 

way too many. def those you posted too, @AimiGen7. Gauze is a great album, Tsumi to Batsu is an absolute fav, as well as the other famous classics, like raison d'etre, ZAN, Schwein no isu and of course Mazohyst of decadence. Will forever be my fav Dir en grey album (and I will forever not get used to their remakes, except maybe for the new ZAN, since it does sound at least like the original)
 
Also seconding La'Mule. I prefer inspire and Sterilization over Curse though.
 
 
That PV too. Classic 2edgy 90s/early 00s cheese.
 
Madeth too had such amazing songs. For some reason i do not stan missantroop or Lucifer as much (as most other people do), instead I luv their album opener (+ the intro, because scary baby screams are the best in VK)
 
 
I generally have big soft spot for matina bands. Usually the dark and edgy stuff, but Syndrome delivered some good melodic tunes as well:
 
 
 
Do we also count the early 00s and newer (or recently formed) kote bands as oldschool? Like Shulla,Etcetera, Metis Gretel, La'veil Mizeria, etc.?
 
 

My fav song by goth queen Luci'fer Luscious Violenoue (come back!!! )- SAERAPHITA
 
PHAIDIA - DARK SIDE
 
黒色エレジー (Kokushoku Elegy) - Sun Stroke. Amazing goth band often compared to siouxsie and the banshees. their singer died recently... RIP
 
Art Marju Duchain - Demon est Deus inversus For how long they were active they released almost nothing. A shame. VAMQUET is good though, but different.
 

way too many. def those you posted too, @AimiGen7. Gauze is a great album, Tsumi to Batsu is an absolute fav, as well as the other famous classics, like raison d'etre, ZAN, Schwein no isu and of course Mazohyst of decadence. Will forever be my fav Dir en grey album (and I will forever not get used to their remakes, except maybe for the new ZAN, since it does sound at least like the original)
 
Also seconding La'Mule. I prefer inspire and Sterilization over Curse though.
 
 
That PV too. Classic 2edgy 90s/early 00s cheese.
 
Madeth too had such amazing songs. For some reason i do not stan missantroop or Lucifer as much (as most other people do), instead I luv their album opener (+ the intro, because scary baby screams are the best in VK)
 
 
I generally have big soft spot for matina bands. Usually the dark and edgy stuff, but Syndrome delivered some good melodic tunes as well:
 
 
 
Do we also count the early 00s and newer (or recently formed) kote bands as oldschool? Like Shulla,Etcetera, Metis Gretel, La'veil Mizeria, etc.?
 
 

I really liked カレン❣ Frilly, synth-heavy, pop rock. Nao's terrible dancing in the Dusty Mirror PV is iconic.
 
Also really loved Dali (til the very end - their weird melancholic pop era stuff is some of my favorites) and hurts, but there's not really a band on the label I hate.
 
Speaking of, does anyone have any CindyKate or hurts they can upload? I can't find any working links, and miss them both.

My favourite Undercode bands were Phantasmagoria and Nega.
I always loved how Phantasmagoria kinda walked the line between old school and modern (For the time). Jun and Iori were really great guitarists and even though at the time, Riku wasn't as good of a vocalist, his passion and energy made up for it. I always joked how Phantasmagoria was basically progressive kotekei, but it is kinda true in a sense.  I'm also not generally big on synths, but I feel like Phantasmagoria pulled it off pretty well. They don't feel like they're taking over the song, but are a simple part of it. 
Then there is Nega. The first undercode band I got into. I was authentically surprised when I found them. Jin isn't the best vocalist (As is with most Undercode bands, for some reason) but younger me was able to look past it. But damn, these guys were HEAVY as fuck. One of the earliest Vkei bands to go into Metalcore and Deathcore, and one of the few to go into true Death Metal a few times. But it never felt generic. However, they also made some good ballad songs, like REMINISCENCE.