Komorebi

Probably because it's such a mickey mouse operation that they'll just keep taking them as they're offered with not much planning otherwise. 
 
I think they'd still draw a decent, not great not terrible, crowd in Germany, Paris and possibly Poland as well. I'm just curious what kind of price they're asking for this if no one in the EU went for this. DIMLIM can sleep in my place if anyone pays the flights and books the venue lol
 
Despite that one positive concert review that was posted here some time ago, I'm totally convinced ( with no proof of course ) that this is a total disaster and this is the worst album rollout strategy in visual kei history especially when you consider that the album probably isn't going to come out either. 

We just have more people making noise on social media that never actually show up for the gig. 

We just have more people making noise on social media that never actually show up for the gig. 

There was a shift in genre and I’ve noticed most people tend to blend sounds they aren’t emotionally attached to in their minds. 
You might say every BTS song sounds the same while to a fan they all sound completely different. Most 90’s and early bands are totally cookie-cutter to me, it was just a different cookie-cutter. And if you ask me a ton of European epic metal bands sound just like Galneryus xD

In my experience interacting with VK fans outside this forum this isn't really getting them much sales, just horny teens collecting photos who can't discuss the band's releases when you ask them to. That works well for the bands in Japan because those horny teens go to lives and spend a shit-ton on merch. Try offering merch to 'Murican teenage fans and see how many actually want/can buy.

I really think the last post is basically /thread but just to add 2 cents.
 
This really might work if you wanna try that. I know a handful who'd ask at least "what's the name of the k-pop band?"
 
You know what, I've never considered myself exactly a fan of VK although I am very much a fan of japanese music (sorry guys, not all japanese music is vk, hope it doesn't come as a letdown to some out there) and I can relate to this. Do not ask me to enjoy Due le Quartz or even Dir en Grey but boy did I enjoy vk of the AnCafe / L'arc / Miyavi / Nightmare / occasionally others? variety back in the mid 2000s. It was there on my mp3 alongside, idk, Mami Kawada or Uverworld or (insert random anison). Because... at the end of the day - and again, sorry to say - vk isn't all headbanging metalheads although it is probably how it got popular worldwide. So I only really dug deeper because my friends enjoyed vk and I wanted to at least not be a hater, and for that to happen I had to find bands with vocals I enjoyed. Occasionally I realized there was a lot of vk that wasn't what the fuck is this guy groaning just like not all metal is insufferable guttural noises.
 
... Again, as I am not exactly a "fan of vk" in the, uh, western sense or understanding of the clique ... maybe I don't have a say in this but I do think it's a good thing it doesn't try to mingle. Because it works somehow and maybe it wouldn't work otherwise. And ngl I'm so fucking happy about it. I'm from Brazil and while most of the music I actively listen to is either Brazilian or Japanese I am exposed to a lot of American and Korean music (actually, it's probably 50/50) and I feel kind of obliged to enjoy the fandom around these types of music - I mean, how can you listen to (insert American artist here) but not know she has ties to Kim Kardashian? Similarly how can you like (insert k-pop artist here) but not vote for them obsessively in random awards number 17818? - so, ironically, I think it's a lot more natural for me to ... enjoy music that's just about the music, because I really couldn't care less about the rest so I think the lack of pressure, so to speak, in western vk fandom exactly because we know the market isn't really counting on us in any way is... a relief. Maybe I'd grow out of it altogether if it was any different. And, again, it goes back to what was being said - I'm in my late 20s, I'm not the bulk anymore, vk was the peak when I was the bulk, I don't expect it to go back to that point unless we start spamming vk dudes licking guitars on stan twitter. etc. And let's face it lol it's not about being menhera enough to enjoy vk, it's because we were mostly horny teens in the early 2000s when every kid was all about anime hair androgynous eyelined guys and those days are gone.
 
tl;dr I honestly think it would do more harm than good for these acts to go and try to mingle lol it's like you're the bullied menhera kid in school and now you feel like you gotta go and mingle with the other kids because some dumb adult said so, and the second you try to get in you're mocked to never return. I mean sometimes it does go well but it's 10% of the time. The other 90% you're more fucked than before because of some dumb adult who thought they knew shit. And let's face it, we're the dumb adult in this situation. Also, the menhera kid was often the right one of the bunch.  
 

I translate for my fandom and no one reads nor cares and tbh it's too much time and effort I've invested over three years with 0 results for the band.
 
VK culture seems to be a huge turnoff for metal fans. I tried to lure a girl who kinda knew about MM and gazette bus is focused in western metal into modern VK and she got hooked on Dadaroma, Diaura and JLK. Lasted a few months and last night threw a tantrum after watching a few lives and claimed she was quitting altogether and when I tried to reason with her her reasons were "yelling encore is so tacky and I just can't with it" and "fandoms expect me to comment nice things on the members accounts and participate in fanprojects". Upon further reasoning as to why join street teams  if she didn't want to engage in fan activities the response was "I wanted drinking buddies". Every other male into metal I've tried to get into VK backs away as soon as they see the aesthetic, right after drawing every comparison possible with any Western act. There's just too much stigma currently around Japan's pop culture for normies to want to step in and a good portion of metalheads are apparently just too closed minded and stay within their own sub-sub-sub genre of metal (I've gotten complaints about bands blending genres and not sticking to one variant of metal) to want to give VK a chance.

You can't make something popular again if it wasn't popular in the first place.  Everyone looks back at 2007-2010 as the heyday of the scene, but I think we know more about the scene now than we did back then. A lot of it was people trend riding Dir en grey, the GazettE, and a whole host of other popular bands until they jumped ship for K-Pop. Even when I go to shows abroad, people in line hardly know as much about the band or the scene as people here on MH do. We are in our own bubble and we have to learn to look beyond that bubble to see the scene as a whole.
 
It's a sad fact that the scene is small and will stay small, but I rather like it that way. Visual kei is the definition of anti-mainstream. Think of how many bands are subjected to the stigma of "going major" and losing their identity. Now, imagine that happening to the entire scene at once! That's basically what it would be like to "get popular" again. Not a good look. I don't know what it is that makes visual kei tick, but I'm fine with leaving things the way they are.

I'm aware this reads like a gigantic gatekeeping post but that is not my intention. Let people find visual kei naturally is what I say! The site continues to find and support both new members and old, so the hooks to get drawn into the scene are still out there.

As much as we would like that VK worked like western pop in terms of marketing it's never gonna work and it's pretty futile to argue over a what if. That is the reality of Japan's culture and we've seen how reluctant they are to mingle with the west, much less adopt their customs.
As an example, Dobe did it right when engaging with the fans and easily supplying their music to the international fandom and for a while everyone was super vocal about them. Then the second Suica was fired no one was hyping them anymore. Merch or no merch involved,  teens just don't get invested beyond a cute member and/or lyrics that speak about their struggles (hence why they get popular easily among menhera chicks in Japan).
As someone who has co-organized tons of fan projects that require little to no monetary effort, what I've experienced is all those social media fans who talk non-stop about X or Y bandman disappear once you ask them if they want to take 10 minutes to write a message for a fanbook they won't even have to pay for. They generally don't care for any fandom activity beyond hyping looks and that drives away newcomers interested in music.
 
Is there any way for bands to market themselves (while remaining VK) to make people interested enough? I doubt it. Even for popular artists the fans who are a little bit more invested are a lot fewer than the ones who just comment on who was on Taylor's latest videos and leave it at that. Kpop artists do thrive on sales and western ones I'm willing to bet they live off advertisement rather than their music since everyone streams it to the point where music is their platform to jump to some unrelated brand to sponsor them and actually give them cash.
 
I see your points, however I disagree with artist seeming more unattainable. They are FAR more attainable and approachable than any mainstream artist. 
 
I'll agree with you on the elitism part, but not quite regarding sharing rare material.
 
Edit: something else came to mind. Most of the world is pretty casual about listening to music and won't go out of their way to even go to a gig. What makes people care on a deeper level about it? Habit. An early exposure and thus attachment to artists. Some sort of connection and/or the music somehow filling some void (hence why people tend to get harder into bands during their 10's and 20's). I think we can all assume that the more attached we are to an artist (whatever the genre, think about beliebers and directioners) the more fucked up we are somehow. It's been widely debated in other threads the common 'fucked-up-ness' most vk listeners had when encountering it and getting themselves attached to what we all agree is mostly crap we hate to love. That might just be another barrier. The rest of the world just doesn't have that hole in their hearts (mental health) that fits VK perfectly.

I absolutely appreciate what you're saying here, I think it just further sums up how distant VK is as a culture from most other forms of music.
 
1. Most music fans I know aren't teens (I mean, I'd hope not, I'm in my 30s...), but are people who would probably like a lot of the output of modern VK and don't give it a shot because of how daunting it is. It feels incredibly "other," even bands that fall very closely in line musically with non-VK acts (Western or otherwise - I know dozens of people into Japanese music who still won't touch VK). I've introduced tons of people to bands I think they'd objectively like from a musical standpoint but the second they look into it, they just kinda lose interest based on the density of everything.
 
2. I think the concept of fan projects, fan-books, so on and so forth are incredibly foreign ideas to most people interested in music, casual or otherwise. I respect the efforts being put into those things and very much understand their place in the world of VK, but I don't blame the casual fan for not participating - it's again just very different.
 
3. I think the biggest disconnect for me is marking K-Pop or so-called "mainstream" artists as the parallels for VK. I think most VK artists should be thought of as exactly what they are - indie rock bands. Most of them are small-time, most of them are independent or signed to niche labels, and most of them operate on a tight knit fanbase. The biggest difference from most indie VK bands and most Western indie bands is the theatrical element of it all, but even still that's kinda viewpoint dependent. Most modern emo/screamo/etc. (and even a lot of metal) is theatric in its own right, maybe just sans full costumes and production. I think if a lot of VK artists were placed in parallel with those kinds of scenes, they'd find a lot more international success, which is why we saw some more of that happening during the "scene boom" of the mid-2000s. 
 
I think when I think "unattainable" I mean that in reference to my third point - I think they seem unattainable when placed against other bands in an independent rock sense. And I mean like...really independent - not like major label artists that still get tagged "indie." I agree that they would be far more attainable than just about anyone in the mainstream.
 
I agree with most of your final point, too. The world is incredibly casual with its music habits now and every time I watch one of those silly "kids/teens react" videos online I'm reminded of the lack of enthusiasm most people have. I don't fault people for being cavalier or just listening to what is easy - that's how most of the world goes about their business and that's fine, but I do see less excitement over "rock" music (I use this term lightly) from younger crowds and it honestly feels like a lot of people consider it to be a relic of another age (which is something I'm still coming to terms with). To the opposite end, VK really connected with me as a kid because I wasn't really that into music otherwise and this was so significantly different from what I knew, so I wasn't someone who was into music and found VK - I got into VK and then found more music, so I feel like that may color my viewpoint on things a bit. 
 
All-in-all, I think a lot of my "drive" in talking about this comes from the fact that I think the musical climate on an independent scale is actually quite ripe for VK and there could be a lot of international success for these bands if they detached a bit from the classic trappings of the genre (in a marketing sense, at least). With that being said, I don't really foresee that happening so it's all really neither here nor there, I'd just love to see a few more bands break out and really "take the plunge."

As much as we would like that VK worked like western pop in terms of marketing it's never gonna work and it's pretty futile to argue over a what if. That is the reality of Japan's culture and we've seen how reluctant they are to mingle with the west, much less adopt their customs.
As an example, Dobe did it right when engaging with the fans and easily supplying their music to the international fandom and for a while everyone was super vocal about them. Then the second Suica was fired no one was hyping them anymore. Merch or no merch involved,  teens just don't get invested beyond a cute member and/or lyrics that speak about their struggles (hence why they get popular easily among menhera chicks in Japan).
As someone who has co-organized tons of fan projects that require little to no monetary effort, what I've experienced is all those social media fans who talk non-stop about X or Y bandman disappear once you ask them if they want to take 10 minutes to write a message for a fanbook they won't even have to pay for. They generally don't care for any fandom activity beyond hyping looks and that drives away newcomers interested in music.
 
Is there any way for bands to market themselves (while remaining VK) to make people interested enough? I doubt it. Even for popular artists the fans who are a little bit more invested are a lot fewer than the ones who just comment on who was on Taylor's latest videos and leave it at that. Kpop artists do thrive on sales and western ones I'm willing to bet they live off advertisement rather than their music since everyone streams it to the point where music is their platform to jump to some unrelated brand to sponsor them and actually give them cash.
 
I see your points, however I disagree with artist seeming more unattainable. They are FAR more attainable and approachable than any mainstream artist. 
 
I'll agree with you on the elitism part, but not quite regarding sharing rare material.
 
Edit: something else came to mind. Most of the world is pretty casual about listening to music and won't go out of their way to even go to a gig. What makes people care on a deeper level about it? Habit. An early exposure and thus attachment to artists. Some sort of connection and/or the music somehow filling some void (hence why people tend to get harder into bands during their 10's and 20's). I think we can all assume that the more attached we are to an artist (whatever the genre, think about beliebers and directioners) the more fucked up we are somehow. It's been widely debated in other threads the common 'fucked-up-ness' most vk listeners had when encountering it and getting themselves attached to what we all agree is mostly crap we hate to love. That might just be another barrier. The rest of the world just doesn't have that hole in their hearts (mental health) that fits VK perfectly.

As much as we would like that VK worked like western pop in terms of marketing it's never gonna work and it's pretty futile to argue over a what if. That is the reality of Japan's culture and we've seen how reluctant they are to mingle with the west, much less adopt their customs.
As an example, Dobe did it right when engaging with the fans and easily supplying their music to the international fandom and for a while everyone was super vocal about them. Then the second Suica was fired no one was hyping them anymore. Merch or no merch involved,  teens just don't get invested beyond a cute member and/or lyrics that speak about their struggles (hence why they get popular easily among menhera chicks in Japan).
As someone who has co-organized tons of fan projects that require little to no monetary effort, what I've experienced is all those social media fans who talk non-stop about X or Y bandman disappear once you ask them if they want to take 10 minutes to write a message for a fanbook they won't even have to pay for. They generally don't care for any fandom activity beyond hyping looks and that drives away newcomers interested in music.
 
Is there any way for bands to market themselves (while remaining VK) to make people interested enough? I doubt it. Even for popular artists the fans who are a little bit more invested are a lot fewer than the ones who just comment on who was on Taylor's latest videos and leave it at that. Kpop artists do thrive on sales and western ones I'm willing to bet they live off advertisement rather than their music since everyone streams it to the point where music is their platform to jump to some unrelated brand to sponsor them and actually give them cash.
 
I see your points, however I disagree with artist seeming more unattainable. They are FAR more attainable and approachable than any mainstream artist. 
 
I'll agree with you on the elitism part, but not quite regarding sharing rare material.
 
Edit: something else came to mind. Most of the world is pretty casual about listening to music and won't go out of their way to even go to a gig. What makes people care on a deeper level about it? Habit. An early exposure and thus attachment to artists. Some sort of connection and/or the music somehow filling some void (hence why people tend to get harder into bands during their 10's and 20's). I think we can all assume that the more attached we are to an artist (whatever the genre, think about beliebers and directioners) the more fucked up we are somehow. It's been widely debated in other threads the common 'fucked-up-ness' most vk listeners had when encountering it and getting themselves attached to what we all agree is mostly crap we hate to love. That might just be another barrier. The rest of the world just doesn't have that hole in their hearts (mental health) that fits VK perfectly.

That's the thing, though - I think that a lot of visual kei fandom is rooted in buying merch/etc. when that's just not how most music fans operate these days. The problem with visual kei's accessibility doesn't begin and end with their merch-selling capabilities - it starts with getting people on board in the first place and keeping them engaged. I think a lot of that is rooted in a strong internet presence.
 
As unfortunate as it is, we're not living in the era of CD sales and purchased merchandise any more - at least outside of live shows (and even then, arguable) - and while I understand the importance of those things (trust me, I spent 10 years of my life on the road as a down-on-my-luck-broke-as-a-joke DIY musician), I think we're expecting far too much of the average consumer to conflate fandom with opening one's wallet. (again, not arguing for rightness, just reality)
 
Past that, I still find that a lot of the lack of international interest in VK is that it is classically very difficult to enter and navigate as a fandom. Not only are fans classically elitist (visual kei is one of the only fandoms I've encountered where people have actively hoarded content from their faves with the explicit purpose of keeping it from others), the artists do not follow the same sort of cues that most other bands do and they don't engage their fans in the same way, either.
 
I mean really, this conversation can extend into the realm of photo-free gigs and cheki sales - things that I absolutely understand, but are likely doing more harm than good in the long-term nowadays (an easy buck to make from the aforementioned horny fan, but something that simultaneously makes these artists feel very distant and "unattainable," which just isn't sustainable in a world where the concept of the "rockstar" has basically been deconstructed entirely.) Add that to too-expensive albums and merchandise and no matter how interested one is, it requires a lot more cash and die-hard effort to support someone you enjoy. 
 
Again, most of this is being analyzed from a strictly Western point of view, but really just trying to answer the opening question. Japan clearly functions very differently from the rest of the world when it comes to music, but VK still feels even further removed. I highly doubt we'd ever see some major international renaissance focused on kote kei groups or something - stuff like that is and always will be incredibly niche - but there are a lot of bands in the game right now that have HUGE crossover potential and if paired up with the right artists would skyrocket in popularity on an international scale.

In my experience interacting with VK fans outside this forum this isn't really getting them much sales, just horny teens collecting photos who can't discuss the band's releases when you ask them to. That works well for the bands in Japan because those horny teens go to lives and spend a shit-ton on merch. Try offering merch to 'Murican teenage fans and see how many actually want/can buy.

In my experience interacting with VK fans outside this forum this isn't really getting them much sales, just horny teens collecting photos who can't discuss the band's releases when you ask them to. That works well for the bands in Japan because those horny teens go to lives and spend a shit-ton on merch. Try offering merch to 'Murican teenage fans and see how many actually want/can buy.

Send Ru Paul Drag Race back in time, when rock music and Japan were the cool kids, and make Kaya win it. Profit. 😎

so like how k-netizens spam kpop fancams in irrelevant threads, we just spam embedded vk tiktoks (which is basically just that)...
 

 

Hot take:
 
The initial seed for a lot of people is seeing cute boys in crazy makeup. We need to start spamming Twitter threads with slow motion gifs of [insert guitarist here] sticking his tongue out while looking to the side.

I translate for my fandom and no one reads nor cares and tbh it's too much time and effort I've invested over three years with 0 results for the band.
 
VK culture seems to be a huge turnoff for metal fans. I tried to lure a girl who kinda knew about MM and gazette bus is focused in western metal into modern VK and she got hooked on Dadaroma, Diaura and JLK. Lasted a few months and last night threw a tantrum after watching a few lives and claimed she was quitting altogether and when I tried to reason with her her reasons were "yelling encore is so tacky and I just can't with it" and "fandoms expect me to comment nice things on the members accounts and participate in fanprojects". Upon further reasoning as to why join street teams  if she didn't want to engage in fan activities the response was "I wanted drinking buddies". Every other male into metal I've tried to get into VK backs away as soon as they see the aesthetic, right after drawing every comparison possible with any Western act. There's just too much stigma currently around Japan's pop culture for normies to want to step in and a good portion of metalheads are apparently just too closed minded and stay within their own sub-sub-sub genre of metal (I've gotten complaints about bands blending genres and not sticking to one variant of metal) to want to give VK a chance.

I translate for my fandom and no one reads nor cares and tbh it's too much time and effort I've invested over three years with 0 results for the band.
 
VK culture seems to be a huge turnoff for metal fans. I tried to lure a girl who kinda knew about MM and gazette bus is focused in western metal into modern VK and she got hooked on Dadaroma, Diaura and JLK. Lasted a few months and last night threw a tantrum after watching a few lives and claimed she was quitting altogether and when I tried to reason with her her reasons were "yelling encore is so tacky and I just can't with it" and "fandoms expect me to comment nice things on the members accounts and participate in fanprojects". Upon further reasoning as to why join street teams  if she didn't want to engage in fan activities the response was "I wanted drinking buddies". Every other male into metal I've tried to get into VK backs away as soon as they see the aesthetic, right after drawing every comparison possible with any Western act. There's just too much stigma currently around Japan's pop culture for normies to want to step in and a good portion of metalheads are apparently just too closed minded and stay within their own sub-sub-sub genre of metal (I've gotten complaints about bands blending genres and not sticking to one variant of metal) to want to give VK a chance.

I haven't read to all big texts (no time atm), but really, I feel we really overcomplicate things. The sad truth that many are in denial is, that VK in the west was just a fad and trend. The majority of people who aren't into it anymore wouldn't have stuck around even without the web, mumble rap or K-POP.
 
VK was popular because it was the kind of thing to be obsessed with if you were an awkward weeb in the 00s. By the time it hit seemingly big in the west it was already heavily declining in Japan. I mean, the last time VK was actually relevant in a music scene was in the 90s, when it peaked in popularity back at home. 00s VK was only seemingly relevant in western circles thanks to anime and manga, hence the illusion many weebs had about wanting to go to Japan as they imagined it some kind of VK paradise with hawt bandmen waiting for them at every corner and then are disappointed when they got there and had to realize that it was pretty niche and rather embarrassing thing, that most japanese people either don't care about or deny to like.
 
The japan hype that was so closely tied to the advent of manga and anime in the west is long over. Sure, there are still weebs and fans of that stuff, but the hype isn't quite as strong as it used to be. We have to put our rosa tinted glasses down and accept that the time was over when most of us edgy and angsty  kids that were outcasted for liking "chinese cartoons" all hopped on the japanese music bandwagon. I used to be quite pissed by VKs decline in quality, aesthetics and appeal too and was cringely obsessed with 90s VK, but eh… I just have to live with it being a niche genre and that most people I knew who liked it have moved on because it was just a phase for them. In that regard it's no different than grunge, Nu Metal or 00s new-modern emo. 

Uh, I certainly think OP is right in saying our tastes are coopted by modern marketing strategies online. Back then we had ICQ, forums and web circles to learn about weird Japanese cartoons abd androgynous metalhair dudes because... yahoo was not a very trustworthy web search engine actually lol. Then came Google and Facebook and Internet became mainstream and now the media conglomerates are more powerful than ever as are our tastes homogeneous. Honestly is thete a single citypop fan who did NOT find out about it through some weird youtube algorrythm that led u there through some mix of almost public domain japanese music made by a 18 year old online but by buying vinyl instead...  of. I do not know what the big idea is and I am afraid to know. 
 
But I feel that visual rock was always perceived as a weird uh community even in Japan. To this day there are Japanese bands that enjoy moderate success internationally (I think of One Ok Rock or Ajikan for instance) but I agree that with the decline of crazy extreme jfashion styles ie. Decora and gyaru as well as the general decline of popularity of anime aesthetic not only through anime and manga but also jrpgs and so (which as it turns out has always been an inspiration AND way of becoming popular for plenty visual rock bands) and the simultaneous ... Rise of shitty youtubers who think spewing " Japan is so weird lol " is cool and, well paired with new technologies that left then cutting edge Japanese technologies behind ... Thats all to amount for this failure of Cool Japan and, well, it really goes reeeeally deep. 
 
But theres a few things that come to mind that I wanted to share to add to the discussion. 
 
Lately I have been into an even more obscure kind of japanese fandom aka japanese seiyuu fandom lol. Theres this guy (there are definitely a few posts on this forum about his act!) called Tatsuhisa Suzuki who is himself in a rock band called OLDCODEX. It's a rather conventional indielike (because they started out indie although now theyre with Lantis) rock band with average rock songs, but the guys are great at performing ... Really passionate stuff. (Theyre good at the looking cool and otherworldly stuff that made Japan cool some decades ago tbh.) So he was voicing characters from popular (cough, with fujoshi) series for which this band performed ost songs. And so the band saw a big rise in popularity and has actually performed in Budoukan a few times. Really enthusiastic reception, pumped audience. But what had me interested is this: Their aesthetic ... Its no trashy garage metal band but not too idolish either. Theyre just at that point where it doesn't offend either crowd too much. The "Grandma probably wouldn't look too badly at anison bando" kinda thing, kinda like OOR or maybe less idolish. It's anime but not too anime, indie rock grawrhhh but Lantis ... Etc. I expected to see an audience full of fujoshi and seiota but that's not the case at all. What I saw were a bunch of youngsters getting pumped to the energy and powerful lyrics. It just looks really fun. So I realized, hey, it's not that rock is dead in Japan - sure it isn't as popular all over the world anymore but it still has a huge following of young people when the product is right (ofc Lantis... Helps). I dare say Japan is The place where poprock music still thrives and finds some good innovation. In fact my shuffle just now started playing amazarashi lol. 
 
But ... I think visual rock after lessening popularity definitely became a bit too "takadanobaba freakos shit" at this point. I mean the fact that everyone either grew weirdo or grew average normie and ran like a bitch from the scene (...sometimes grew traitor Miyavi cough) is not helpful at all I think. It just became too established to shock as it did in the past I guess. So it's one of those things... Revolutionary in 1800 so its just anime boys doing bl aesthetic ; ; ; but that's what I feel. And at the end of the day Japan probably realized a domestic strategy was better, so to understand this market I am not considering westerners opinions. 
 
Think of it... It strikes me as ... Very interesting, the case of Amai Bourypku which is one of the bands I listen to regularly when listening to vk. Their early songs beginning as Shounenki were in late 2000s/early 2010s. Those days I remember songs full of !! Emotion !! And !! Power !! Were the norm in jpop because thats what anime songs were and top popular songs worldwide were anisons etc. But at that time was starting this whole culture shift to yknow basic music produced by uninspired djs to publish on youtube fad and vk started dying down (lol being in seiyuu fandom also made me realize thats around the time Gackt Did Voice Acting bro) So their early songs were quite ... quality stuff, but at some point things probably fell short of their expectations and they disbanded kind of only to come back with a late 2010s aesthetic ... Which is precisely making trashy indieish songs pandering to problenatic girls who are probably the bulk of the vk crowd these days. I mean it's probably easier to make and sustain anyway. I realized this shit was seen in a negative light by the western vk niche but they seem to be enjoyimg some popularity in Japan with this crowd anyway. I think this might be ... Quite emblematic. Of what we actually crave, vs what Japan craves and what musicians in those places see as a way of reaching their aspirations be it money or whatever. 
 
In short, things are changing... I think sadly. I really love in a "always have and always will" way japanese music and these trends are being quite hurtful for, well, more complex music and Japan is falling behind because of it. 

Oh I know, I just know some people who act like somehow bands lasted longer in the past, and that the disbandment rate is somehow a new thing, and I was agreeing with you that it's been pretty stable.

There are a lot of hidden talents in V-kei. Some yes do suck but its more opinion based just like how every type of music out there internationally.
 
To be honest most people i have showed this genera to i always find one thing in common and that is, a reaction like you just got hit by ton of bricks or relate it to anime openings. Also have stated that "Why am i going to listen to a band i do not understand". (I'll get more to that below ). I live in new york and in a region where a lot of pop/rap music flourishes. I have rarely found fans maybe might be looking in the wrong places some days but have lived here most my life and even when i have found fans they dont know as much as i thought they would have known. Honestly people can say V-kei some of is bad but select few have a ear for this type of genera and surprisingly it has grown ever so slightly now of days. Even fans of the genera ive have met don't have an ear for some bands that are visual kei. Remember when Mejibray music videos had only like about 50k even 100k now its like a million or half a million closer to those number ranges. This is just a base example. Or even now deviloof's MV for ONI has now 1m views and they did that in a couple months. I would have to say that's pretty impressive. Yes many have fans in japan that watch these videos but my based point is this: There are a couple of under lying reasons why its not popular or main stream and these are some of the barriers to my knowledge. If anything is incorrect please let me know ill be happy to change this.  : 1. Expensive import costs for Music/Availability. I get it you if people have to buy music overseas but Shipping costs are pretty up there. Some releases i bought that are exclusively on cd can cost anywhere from 10-20 dollars on just shipping alone. Mostly for the ones not on CDjapan.  Not to mention the limited lives >.>.  Im glad some music has been being sold on official amazon. com which gives free shipping. There has been digital support some people like the hard copy. (Spotify has helped in some availability issues) 2. Translation support/Band recognition. I think the language barrier can cause some issues with trying to love your band that you do not understand. This turns some people off from the genera. Major aspects of music changing and constant line-up changes are something people aren't use to this can deter people away some some bands.  There are also bands that don't really put themselves out there internationally all that much. This leads right into the final point. 3. Disbandment. Due to the nature of the genera there are constant disbandment, reforming and other extra terms that can be confusing to a person. This can also be hard for a band to even get to be known if a band isn't functioning to its full capability which in turn doesn't make them popular/ lack of ability to go international.
 
 
Overall what generally people like is things simple rather confusing and also talented music. Visual kei is only one of those things, half the time because of the nature of the genera and how one band can change so much or disband and reform. This is also the beauty of the genera as well. Case in point to much going on for one thing. 
 
Side note: The V-kei disbandment rate has been unchanged for the past 20 years so i honestly dont think visual kei will die anytime soon but it will remain a float as that one underground scene that not many people pay attention to. As long as there are still fans of the genera that support bands to make music there will always be new member awaiting in the back stage you have never seen before. But visual kei is at a all time low as of recent... 😕  Hopefully 2020 changes that. 
 
Last thing, this is a far off distant wish of mine i would love to see a nice chart that displays popularity of visual kei bands from 1980 - 2010 or 15 in this style. Im quite interested. What are peoples thoughts?

THIS. I hate it when people act like bands somehow lasted longer in the 90's. Like, Pierrot, La'mule and Shazna were some of the most popular bands of the 90's, and they still met their fate where it was due. Indie Scenes all around the world have similar disbandment rates as well. It's pretty much the nature of a niche music scene