12012 new album in March!

[Zeus 7997]

I'm not defending 12012 or the song preview, but I'm not too sure why 12012 is getting crucified for doing what every other band in the scene has been doing since 2004. If you're going to rail on 12012 for resorting to bland, watered down metalcore for attention from fans be sure to poke a stick at the rest of the bands in the scene that do this too.

Then again 12012 has always been all over the place as a band. I saw this coming.

suicide is meh.

[inartistic 1151]

I'm not defending 12012 or the song preview, but I'm not too sure why 12012 is getting crucified for doing what every other band in the scene has been doing since 2004. If you're going to rail on 12012 for resorting to bland, watered down metalcore for attention from fans be sure to poke a stick at the rest of the bands in the scene that do this too.

Then again 12012 has always been all over the place as a band. I saw this coming.

suicide is meh.

I disagree! There have always been scores of new bands who play shitty hardest rock we can think of, but that's a far cry from DEG's transitional Agitated Screams of American-emulation burpfest bullshit. That's somewhat uncommon, and it's especially uncommon for a high profile band to switch like that. So the attention isn't unwarranted, at least in my opinion!

At any rate, even if every other band in the scene is doing the same thing, 12012 still deserves ridicule because they fucking suck at it!

[Zeus 7997]

I disagree! There have always been scores of new bands who play shitty hardest rock we can think of, but that's a far cry from DEG's transitional Agitated Screams of American-emulation burpfest bullshit. That's somewhat uncommon, and it's especially uncommon for a high profile band to switch like that. So the attention isn't unwarranted, at least in my opinion!

At any rate, even if every other band in the scene is doing the same thing, 12012 still deserves ridicule because they fucking suck at it!

I picked my words carefully because I didn't want to draw any comparisons between 12012 and Dir en grey. I was drawing comparisons between 12012 and every third visual kei band that pops up and actually does play "derivative ASoM burpfest bullshit". It's standard fare by now. 12012 isn't the first band I've seen draw criticisms for sounding too much like Dir en grey, 12012 isn't the first band I've seen draw criticism for gaining such a ridiculous amount of hype in such a short time, and 12012 isn't the first band I've seen display their mediocrity in such an obvious way that half this forum can't ignore it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with the general consensus in here. My approach to it is just different from everyone else in here. While people are humming and hawwing over the Dir en grey influence in this, I'm commenting on how they've thrown away all thought out of constructing their music. Just listen to that intro! - I've heard it at least 100 times by now. No thought at all.

At any rate, even if every other band in the scene is doing the same thing, 12012 still deserves ridicule because they fucking suck at it!

Yeah 12012 and like most of the scene that does the same thing? Hence,

If you're going to rail on 12012 for resorting to bland, watered down metalcore for attention from fans be sure to poke a stick at the rest of the bands in the scene that do this too.

We're on the same side bro.

[X-Marc 7]

also really reminds me of Diru

however his growls and screams are really bad

not really that excited anymore=/

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

It's standard fare

Was my initial thought. Only thing Dir en grey here is the PV, and one could draw comparisons with the singers attempts at singing a chorus to what Kyo would have sounded without all the studio magic lately, but that's nothing rare. To me it's just another "hard&edgy" VK band attempting a scenekidcore/VK fusion with terrible results due to their abysmal musicianship.

[nekkichi 6043]

Have they done heavy br00tal songs like this before?

gossamer from their previous (already free-will) album was pretty lulzworthy -

but they had some traces of shame left at that point, so it's not a endless dirufest, and the rest of album was the same typical AISHITERU PATI RABBU LAST MANTRAIN DAYO major 12012 bullshit they've been doing since cyclone or so.

anyway we all basically know that 12012 invented dir en grey with this album, so they aren't stealing anything.

[LIDL 692]

omg that preview, everything about it screams Clever Sleazoid.

Hate all you want, but it's that blatant.

[ShanethVarosa 1209]

Ever the optimist that I am when it comes to some of my original favorite VK bands in the scene that I've loved since I've been... What 14? I really don't like to have negative things to say about the bands. I try... SO hard to look for the positive so what I'm GOING to say is:

Wow! I'm really excited to be getting another 12012 album in the near future! I really can't wait to hear the whole piece and judge it solely based off of the quality of the full songs I listen to!

But what I really WANT to say is:

If this album is mostly this garbage, then I think I'm going to COMMIT suicide. That was atrocious. Absolutely dismal.

And also, since I'm big into the Dance/Pop scene and I HATE the Lady Gaga/Madonna comparisons... I hate equally the Dir en grey/EVERYONE comparisons that go on in this scene, but I gotta say... Jesus Rainbow-Farting Christ it was like watching Dir's Saku video all over again. Sound AND video.

For shame.

[bonsaijodelfisch 328]

agreeing with everything said here.

the initial exitement is instantly gone

[Eraser 66]

and the rest of album was the same typical AISHITERU PATI RABBU LAST MANTRAIN DAYO major 12012 bullshit they've been doing since cyclone or so.

Did you miss mar maroon?

[nekkichi 6043]

Did you miss mar maroon?

it's a decent glay cover album (I'm not complimenting them btw) with shitty singles and mediocre vocals.

not really different from 2nd part of SEVEN from what I've heard so far. sekaiii no yami wo burrushito

[relentless 254]

I'm not defending 12012 or the song preview, but I'm not too sure why 12012 is getting crucified for doing what every other band in the scene has been doing since 2004. If you're going to rail on 12012 for resorting to bland, watered down metalcore for attention from fans be sure to poke a stick at the rest of the bands in the scene that do this too.

Then again 12012 has always been all over the place as a band. I saw this coming.

suicide is meh.

You're a mod so I assume you know how this forum works: Any band that does something blatant that can be however referenced to what another similar (same label, country, scene, etc) is doing, people are going to think it's a copy or there is correlation. Right or wrong. I thought you'd know this?

[Zeus 7997]

Yeah. Doesn't stop me from trying to do something different though. =__=

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

I agree that this isn't anything new with VK and that 12012 is receiving a lot more flak for this compared to the shit-no-name indie bands that do the exact same thing all the time. However with the crappier small timers, it's to be expected to see generic core crap from them but from a major band like 12012 it's just so left field y'know.

[dannemannen 69]

Wow that was lame...

[Maiku 4]

Maybe it's their love letter to the style of music. Like an homage to diru. Who knows? I like 12012 and Diru so I don't really know what to say~.

[nekkichi 6043]

I agree that this isn't anything new with VK and that 12012 is receiving a lot more flak for this compared to the shit-no-name indie bands that do the exact same thing all the time. However with the crappier small timers, it's to be expected to see generic core crap from them but from a major band like 12012 it's just so left field y'know.

I sort of love the extra irony in 12012 trying to bump their sales with dir en grey looks and sound,

while deg popularity has been going down since all this hurdurrcore BS started.

except 12012 and popularity are terms, mutually excluding

[Zeus 7997]

I might take this time to ask the question: exactly what does sounding like "Dir en grey" mean? Growled, warbly verses with a poppy, sung chorus? Operatic vocals with gratuitous vibrato? A chugfest of pentatonic riffs in drop-B that go nowhere? That's really funny, considering that with the amount of music Kaoru and co poop out they have rarely combined all three of those elements into any of their songs at once (although yes, they are guilty of all three). Hell, you can even say that the freeform, aimless nature of Dum Spiro Spero is the complete opposite of this formulaic approach to composition that riddles the scene yet when a song like suicide pops up people seem to froth at the mouth over perceived plagiarism. So what era exactly are all of these bands stealing from Dir en grey? THE MARROW OF A BONE? Please, do point me to operatic vocals and the poppy chorus. While you're at it, try to tell me when Kyo attempted growling during that album, or for that matter any extended period of singing during their "heavy" songs. UROBOROS? Show me the progressiveness in suicide. VULGAR? Not even the same genre! A mélange of all three? That is called Dum Spiro Spero. My point here is twofold:

[*:ujdd9mv3] Shitty metalcore existed in the scene far before Dir en grey attempted it and they sucked just as much ass at it then as 12012 does now. They know that - it's why they've moved on to playing deathcore.
[*:ujdd9mv3] Dir en grey is not singlehandedly responsible for the cookie cutter formula in modern visual kei, especially when they haven't pioneered the formula!

What 12012 is attempting now is certainly inspired by Dir en grey (you'd be a fool to think that naked, chained women + bugs + Wataru's makeup isn't 12012 trying to mix the OBSCURE and Saku asthetics) but it's something that's transcended far past what one band in the scene has done. Dir en grey has never sounded like this. They've never been remotely close. Superficially, both songs are similar in that they're in the same genre of music and both bands use harsh vocals, but Dir en grey doesn't have a monopoly on either claim. In all actuality, 12012 are trying to appeal less to the fans of Dir en grey and more to the fans of indie visual kei bands that like this "sound" (because yes, they do exist in droves and because yes, most of the fans of this sound claim "new" Diru is too "metal" for their tastes).

tl;dr:

Let's stop trying to crucify this band with a really bad allusion and start trying to crucify this band for sounding like shit.

Quoted for concurrency:

I sort of love the extra irony in 12012 trying to bump their sales with dir en grey looks and sound,

while deg popularity has been going down since all this hurdurrcore BS started.

except 12012 and popularity are terms, mutually excluding

[nekkichi 6043]

THE MARROW OF A BONE? Please, do point me to operatic vocals and the poppy chorus.

fatal believer, disabled complexes. repetition of hatred. 1/3 of album sans singles, actually.

12012's guitar tuning is different for suicide, but growling/screaming parts are quite close.

While you're at it, try to tell me when Kyo attempted growling during that album

he's been doing growls since at least WTD (I'm listening to garbage atm, and it has both growls and singing);

or for that matter any extended period of singing during their "heavy" songs.

ummm.... clever sleazoid?

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

I've never listened to 12012, but "Suicide" sounded cool till the vocals came in. I love whatever-scene-core , but this really wasn't that great.

inb4 Versailles' next single sounding just like this.

[Zeus 7997]

THE MARROW OF A BONE? Please, do point me to operatic vocals and the poppy chorus.

fatal believer, disabled complexes. repetition of hatred. 1/3 of album sans singles, actually.

I went back to listen to the choruses of each of the songs that you used as an example. The Fatal Believer keeps in tune with the rest of the song (closest one imo), Repetition of Hatred really isn't poppy in the sense that I was thinking of and I can't even find a chorus in Disabled Complexes but I may not have listened long enough to hear it and it may come in at the end more like a Juuyoku-esque thing. Nevertheless, when I refer to poppy choruses I mean this:

gRX2bpftbyk

I'm talking about this sudden "entire octave shift" into an almost entirely different sounding beast. The Fatal Believer doesn't do that. suicide sounds like it's going to follow more of SIGNAL's path than they are Dir en grey. Can you point me to a song where Diru does that? I can't think of one and I really tried this time.

While you're at it, try to tell me when Kyo attempted growling during that album

he's been doing growls since at least WTD (I'm listening to garbage atm, and it has both growls and singing);

For the growling argument I was referring to TMoAB specifically - I don't remember much growling on that album, just screaming. I went and listened to GARBAGE too - I suppose I never picked up on those being growls. I always felt he started growling with UROBOROS. They might be and I've just never picked up on those in the traditional sense, so I'll give that one to you. Then again if we're going to count that as growling than wasn't he doing them since VULGAR (I'm thinking NEW AGE CULTURE)?

or for that matter any extended period of singing during their "heavy" songs.

ummm.... clever sleazoid? oh sorry those aren't growls, those are screams, are they

I have no idea. I personally don't regard anything Kyo was doing on TMoAB as growls, just various types of screaming. He may have tried but he didn't get there. Kyo did do some singing there but that's like one song on the entire album. I can't think of another song on the album where he does it and if CLEVER SLEAZOID alone was influential enough to influence every band since 2007 then I really did miss something huge in the visual kei scene.

But yes, to keep on topic I'm relating 12012 more to SIGNAL (and bands like them) than to Dir en grey. Bands like those two have much more in common with each other than they do with Dir en grey but no one puts them together unless it's through Dir en grey. I hope I at least got at that this time with this post.

And I agree with you on most of this actually nekkichi ._____.

[nekkichi 6043]

I'm talking about this sudden "entire octave shift" into an almost entirely different sounding beast. The Fatal Believer doesn't do that. suicide sounds like it's going to follow more of SIGNAL's path than they are Dir en grey. Can you point me to a song where Diru does that? I can't think of one and I really tried this time.

does different sense come any closer to your description?

diru were quite consistent in tryharding to be a heevy band, so they haven't mixed, idk, yurameki-style chorus with ASOM-style screaming, though -

their diruvatives (I'm thinking sadie, vajra, partially gazette and unsraw; there might be a billion bands like signal that I missed) did that better.

[Prophet 168]

My comment regarding "Suicide" preview...

This is nowhere near Diru at all, so you guys better shut yer trap and wait till the whole album come out instead of overhypping one single fvcking preview of a song.

[nekkichi 6043]

12012 stan in dirunolifer clothing is a nice touch, this thread gets better and better

[Asakusa 95]

I always felt he started growling with UROBOROS.

yep, that's true. those ARE growls.

anything before that is just an attempt or screams.

In other note, isn't this getting out of topic?