Ikna

It's time we forbid Lycaon fangasm discussions on this forum. They are pointless and always circle around how Lycaon is so kewl because Yuuki is hot and everyone disagreeing with that is a weeb (oh the irony).

I've only listened to a few songs from Gladsheim. I think it is decent, though noting special. Crimson Nail however is really good. I really like how aggressive and emotional it is, especially once Kaya starts to go fully banana in the last half. And it doesn't sound like most of the aggressive stuff other VK bands put out in the moment.
My only concern with them is the production. I think their music may come off more powerful and impressive if the production was better. Like many people have already said, the guitars sound weak and the drums sound cheap.

The only thing I know for sure is that tumblr has pretty much changed the definition of that word to suit their "Sexism! opression!" speech. Originally a friendzoned guy was just one person (mostly a guy) who was in love with their best friend, but said friend didn't return that affection. In the TV series "Friends", where the term freindzone first appeared, it was also meant to mean a guy who will never have a chance for his unrequited love to turn into a real relationship, because he missed the chance for his friend to become romantically interested into him.

I guess from here it changed into a "loser, who is too dumb to get a girl". I can remember tumblr picking it up in ca. 2011 (if I remember correctly), where it started to mean "someone who has a friendship with you, but expects it to be more". And then finally it transformed into "guys who demand sex and attraction from women simply for being nice". I am not going to deny that such people don't exist and that those idiots may be even using the term friendzone unironically (as it happens at OKCupid very often nowadays), but I still don't really think that the friendzone is real. It is just a word, created by a TV series, changed into something entirely different because some online community needed it to use it as a description for a certain kind of personality or to use it in rants.

It seems the word firendzone has one primary function: to scapegoat guys, who are frustrated because they are alone and unable to find a person to spend their time with and to brand them for doing this only because of Seeeeeex. I fucking hate especially how so many immature brats online use the term to denounce guys, who really just wanted to be nice and have manners (such as holding a door) for being "Fedora wearing guys who feel friendzoned". Which also equals with "evil, sexist and overprivileged" to them.

I like Kiryu more. Royz songs are not my thing at all… except maybe Lilia, since it was really different from their usual stuff. Sadly they won't try to expand their sound into the direction Lilia had and their album didn't impress me at all. Kiryu may be repetitive, but their music is appealing much more to me. And I don't find Mahiro's voice bad or even weird. It's a matter of taste and his voice requires some time to get used to.

In visual kei that line doesn't really exist. Visual kei is all about selling yourself, exaggerating your posture/facial expressions/actions, and generally being dramatic while playing music. To say they're "trying too hard" and to leave it at that reeks of criticism for the sake of criticizing and it doesn't sound very convincing or relevant. After all, neither you or I really know what they mean by that. Visual kei bands can't try too hard. The vast majority of them (including the two bands you listed) could do with a bit of trying harder.

 

^^^

I think if VK bands would stop with their over the top stage antics and cheesiness a lot of their appeal would get lost. What got me into VK was actually the fact, that they were extremely overexaggerting in anything (from visuals to perfomances to the music).

To be honest, most VK PVs are just posing around. And even though it looks totally ridiculous most of the time, it still has it's own charme. I especially like this PV for all of it's amazing VK dance moves and hand waving like the vocalist is trying to summon something from another dimension:

(sadly the HQ version is gone, so bear with that pixelated mess)

Next trend in VK: Rapcore. I can already see it.

MadWinK. definitely still need a Luna Sea and Madeth gray'll copyband.

Both parties sure have points, but what bugs me more is that so many people paint the "elders" of the scene as narcistic assholes who are jealosuy of other bands and who try to overestimate their own success. Because his is not true. Of what should the elders be jealous? And why? After all, groups like LUNA SEA, KJamaitachi, X Japan and Pierrot were extremely popular and influential on the genre. It wouldn't really make sense if they were jealous of all these bands in the VK scene that started out (in one point of history) as their copy bands. New Visual kei is vastly different from old VK, but if you trace back the history of any modern band, epecially big bands like the Gazette, you will always end at LUNA SEA and their peers from that time.

Also I am sure that most modern VK musicians are aware of the influence those old bands had. I am sure too that they all admire their elders. Therefore painting the elders as ignorant, envious assholes is pretty mean and not right. Also: why aren't they allowed to give their own opinion on VK? They were pretty much the creators, the fathers of VK. If it wasn't for them, VK wouldn't even be a thing nowadays. So they have all the reason to talk about it as they want. You don't have to agree with them, you don't even need to listen to them. It doesn't hurt you either that most of them disllike what their "baby" has grown into. I don't really understand how sensible one can be when the opinion of one musician makes you so angry that you have to talk bad about them. But maybe I am just growing sick and tired of people banging their heads against each other, just because their precious Kyo has said something about VK which they didn't like. (Also sure that in at least 20 years the popular VK bands of today will say the same about the next generation of VK bands)

And on a side note: LUNA SEA and Co. were definitely original, at least in their time span, when VK wasn't really thing and not many bands played in this style. In my opinion they are even original today. There may have been a lot of copy cats, but no other band actually reached the same level they had. Their impact on the japanese music scene was pretty big too, and wasn't just limited to futire Visual kei, but probably japanese rock music in general. I doubt that Sugizo is envious of "modern stuff" as their music is timeless and perfect as it is. And show me any modern day VK band that has reached the same legendary status, influence and fame that LUNA SEA have, please. And I am saying this as someone who isn't such a big fan of them. But I am not an igorant idiot and claim that they are a forgettable band who didn't pull of anything.

(I may agree with the statement about Angelo, but not Dir en grey. The latter don't even have any connection to VK anymore, so comparing their current stylistic direction with the stagnation of today's VK scene is far-fetched. And them playing their old songs form time to time doesn't really count and doesn't make them VK)

I have to say it's really entertaining to read all this things. Bet Kisaki is laughing his ass off if he'd see us being so puzzled. I still wonder though why he or a staff member of him would invest so much time and energy into this…

Maybe it will become a trend in the future and apart from silly pseudonyms, VK bands may also claim to have blood type π, astrological signs such as "Unicorn" and state their hometown is Uranius Patera, a vulcan on Mars.

It's a bit unusual to see them in black (and I always loved the red color scheme). But the make-up is pretty interesting and reminds me of Horror Punk. I am hoping for a more chaotic and "wild" song.

Man, their sad songs are truly fucking sad. I wonder how much Kon writes from his own experience?

^Oh yeah, the american Glam Punk Scene from the early 90s. I actually already wondered myself, if they influenced VK, or if they were influenced by japanese glam instead. But my first reaction to a glamour Punks images was: "Man, that looks like early Visual kei!"

I mean this one:

Same goes for other bands of the scene, such as Queeny Blast Pop, Foxxy Roxx, Pretty Boy Floyd, Heart Throb Mob, etc.

In another thread about VKs musical origins and influences we also mentioned the New Wave and New Romantic scene and a pic of Visage was posted here as well. I think it's hard to say that VK just grew out of Glam and Punk bands. Buck-Tick were for sure a huge influence on the looks and music, but I'd never throw them into the same box as Color, X Japan, Dead End or even D'ERLANGER. Instead, they always appeared to be more on the New Wave spectrum. And I think we often forget the huge influence japanese goth artists had. MADAME EDWARDA and Auto-Mod are proven to have had a wide influence as well.

Also this guy here was adored by many VK bandguys:


 

I think it's hard to compare early Kuroyume with mid 90s Kuroyume and late/current Kuroyume. They are all extremely different, especially music-wise.
Feminism is the last record I can care about, anything afterwards wasn't really touching me. But it's nice to see that they did a tribute to their earlier years. I wonder if there will be any live recordings (maybe on a DVD). Or maybe any liev reports about how good or bad they performed their old material.

I have to say their last album finally started growing on me. At first I found it to be rather weak compared to the first (which wasn't really that individual). It defenitely takes some time to grow on you. I am really glad, that there were more songs with a personal note rather than another bunch of direct Diru imitations. Their songwriting still lacks some independence. Like many people have said, many of their songs sound wa too similiar.

I hope Grieva follow this path though and experiment more, without loosing the elements that make their music nostalgic and charming.

Also it may just be me, but i love the look of their last PV. It reminds me of the stuff La'Mule were doing, just with black splatter instead of red one. I am not so fond of their recent look, but the single may be turning out wondrful and that's what matters more.

That pic looks like glam more than vk. lmao thank goodness they do look like that anymore (wanna be kiss). At lest now when they wear different clothing they look good which is the shock because you didn't know guys could look like the or rock make up. good vk now looks hot.

Well, it is a singer from a VK band and guess what, Vkei was influenced by GLAM.

Good VK = hot? So it's really not about the music, ok.

Also blackdoll, we have all already understood that you find old school to be shitty and pointless. You are writing the same argument again and again in any fucking thread that vaguely mentions oldschool bands (or is about old bands being covered by new ones, etc). It's okay now, you can calm down and fangirl/fanboy about Lycaon. No old skewl fanatic will stop you.

What i noticed so far in the thread: Kote kei elitists will never accept new VK and will always cry about it being shitty, too poppy, commercial and the bands looking like dumb hosts. And they will all sit in the corner waiting for new bands sounding like their indie superherous, like punks still wait for the revolution. (I know what I mean, I am kinfd of one of them)

And the Neo VK Fans will always make snarky remarks how old VK looked dumb and shit and how sexey and hotz the new bands are now. And that their production values and skills are better (something that even I agree with.)

And yeah, I am using those fucking labels. The reason: even though everyone seems to have a different understanding of Kote kei and Neo Vkei (since both are terms generated by fans, not bands or "experts") the majority of people will still understand what I mean, when I talk about Neo VK. Also it is horter than to say "the bands that came after those old skewl groups." Yeah, I am very lazy when I write my ass huge texts, so short terms and labels com very handy. I don't really care if the label is legit or if we have to rethink the concept in 10 years when contemporary bands are now considered old - for the time being it's totally practical.

And now to the "old band style coming back" thing: I am with the majority here. Old school VK is gone and over. That era will never repeat. Unlike  other music scenes that had more or less successfull revivals in the last years (see deathrock, post-punk and synthpop) old VK doesn't have enough fans to be revived. There is no big and strong "core" scene or community which is interested into forming and/or supporting bands playing in that style and there are no people who would help to build up a space and network for this style to flourish in the underground scene. VK itself isn't even a real scene and definitely not a subculture. There is no chance either that the early to mid 00s bands will have a revival and the type of VK that's popular now will vanish on day as well and be replaced by a new type of VK.

I also often heard that old VK was fitting to it's time. Every era has it's own feel and “Zeitgeist“ and of course musical and fashion trends. Old VK fitted into the 90s, because it was fitting into the feel of that era. We have the year 2014 now and the 2010s have a complete different feel and culture than the 90s. It's not easy to translate something from an older era into a new one without having to change it or at least adapt it ti the current circumstances. Old VK therefore wouldn't even work in the same way today as it did in the 90s. Too much has changed since then.

Of course there are bands like La'veil Mizeria or GAUZES, but they don't have a big following. They seem maybe too boring and "old" for the average VK listener, which is why their fanbase is way too small to bring them into the spotlight of popular music. Grieva may be the only ones who are successfull, but for me Grieva are more of a "modern old VK band". They defintely have the '99 spirit in their music, but they still sound somewhat modern. If they had only a  reportoire of songs like kikei they'd be spot on-old school VK, but with old Kuroyume inspired music alone you can't win the attention of people anymore. That's why they spice up everything with a bit of modern VK influences. Not that this is bad though. in fact I like it a lot and in my book they are doing it right. They have the right connection to the roots of VK, but they aren't totally backwards. (I don't want to discuss about the Dir en grey influence though, everthing has been said about it).

My faztít: the argument will go on until eternity and I too would like to see more old school bands. But i guess we can accept that it's dead and gone and should instead value what we have. There are enough old bands you can listen to. If you want to follow new bands and feel, that modern VK isn't yours, maybe try to go searching something you like outside of VK. This is mostly what I do and therefore I have no problem with no new VK bands being of any interest. On the other side: I may often come off as a hater, but I have nothing against modern VK bands. I just don't really like any aspect of 95% of them and I can't really get the hype around some bands, especially those Pop-rock Host kei groups. As I have said in this thread already: it's dependant on your preferences and what you like. Tastes are different and while I love old school aesthetics and music, another person may find it absolutely horrible. I can totally accept it, nobody has to like what I like. On the other hand I am not going to make mean spirited comments about how you suck for thinking the Gazette or Vivid (the new one) are the best bands that ever graced the scene. I may not agree with it, but you can love it as much as you want and defend your opinion.

I just dislike the strange climate between fans of old and new VK. It may be just me, but I have the feeling some people on the net (and here on MH) are extremely defensive when it comes to that topic and try to push down the fans of the other side. I am really sick and tired of users trying to turn every discussion into a bitchfight between oldschool and newschool lovers. I can't hear anymore the whole "But my (old or new) band would have done that better". And of course the whole "they looked like shit back then". It's as shitty and dumb as the "My band is better than yours. Your band sucks and therferoe your taste sucks!!! trololol" crap.

Sorry for writing a long text again. >_>

I guess when many people (including me) speak about “shock value“ they mean the typical gloomy, dark, try hard-edgy aesthetics, that defined at least mid to late 90s Vkei. I'd say the whole dark and horror chic survived even until the mid 00s. See Unsraw, early Screw and all those Nu-Metal influenced groups of that time. Unsraw even had Body Horror-like costumes at the beginning. But what it mostly comes down to are the Horror chic, the dark romanticism (Paraphilias, Murder, Violence, asocial or murderous behaviour that's kinda romanticized), Eroguro stuff (Amputations, bandages, blood, eye licking and/or eye fixation and body horror), etc.
And the most important thing: the fact, that the musicians often look otherworldly with their freaky costumes and cheesy hairtsyles. It creates some kind of "out of the ordinary" experience. That may be the biggest point, since in Neo VK bands rarely do the whole "faux-goth with huuuge Neon colored hair and 2spooky4all make up" anymore. Those older bands (from the indies scene mostly, because we are obviuosly not talking about soft vkei here, which never had much shock value to begin with) bands looked ridiculous most of the time, but their looks set them apart. What many people are bragging about is, that modern VK bands are often not so different from other popular japanese rock groups in term of looks. Anyone can dress in the away VK bands are styling themselves now, since their look is based on street fashion, rather then expensive and cheesy costumes, which the bandmembers only wear on stage (since they are way too uncomfortable to be actually worn outside as daily outfits).

Also let's not forget that there are a lot of cultural differnces between Japan and us mostly US and Europe-listeners. What may not be shocking or provocative for us may be totally not okay and scandalous in Japan. I am sure that Dir en grey's PV managed to enrage or scare the shit out of some Japanese citizens back in the day. And of course, what has already been said, time has changed. We are now familiar with all the clichés old VK bands had to offer and we grew tired of them. They lost their effect to really reach us emotionally. The only thing we may see now is that 80% of those PVs are cheap and bad. So saying shock value defined VK is not wrong, as it did indeed in Japan.

But now from my subjective perspective: I really miss those dumb and old “edgy" clichés. I have seen them so many times, but I still can't say that I am glad that they vanished. Okay, I am fine with Nazi uniforms having gone extinct in Vkei and badly done MUCC-inspired make up seems to have left the scene finally too. But I'd really love to see again bands incorporating the good old horror tropes, eroguro elements and the "I am goin' crazy and slice some people up, fuck yeah" theme.

wha-wha-what.

I just wanted to check in here to see what's up and that's the first thing I read, ugh X_X I am really speechless. In the recent years I didn't follow MdM as much as I used to in the mid 2000s, but they are still important to me, as they were my first VK band. Therefore it makes me really sad to hear one of my fav members to pass away. I wonder if they'll search for a new guitarist :/

Those previews are really nice. Such a shame though, that this project will be put on hiatus.

Hmmm… I actually find it not that bad. But I'll wait for the full thing.

*jumps in*

Really nice video. I have high hopes on their releases. Hopefully I won't be disappointed.
(Iria's hat is irritating me though)

I remember I was a big fan of them once… I had almost forgotten that they existed, which is mainly because their releases stopped being interesting for me. And then there was a huge silence about them (they haven't released anything new since 2012, right?). It doesn't surprise me that they disband, since they weren't so active the last years and haven't been producing anything great in a while.

What's more sad is how they had a loyal fanbase, but were pretty much "abandoned" by everyone. They kind of got into this stream of forgotten bands.
I wouldn't say VK is dead though, just because another small old band, that nobody cares about anymore, has gone. Good or decent bands dying is pretty much an integral part of the "scene". It's true though that almost all groups who displayed the early to mid 00s VK style are gone now. But that era already ended in 2008/2009.

Still a bit sad to hear that they are disbanding though.

ARE YOU ALL RICH? (or am I just too poor?)

I am not spending much money on CD releases. First, I mainly buy used VK CDs that aren't from such uber-rare bands. So the prices are not that high. I mostly order a batch of CDs for like 40-60€ every 2 or 3 months. I buy new releases only form bands that are really my top faves, which would be just Grieva and NightingeiL at the moment. I wouldn't even have the money to be able to spend more than 30€ on CDs every month, let alone 200€ for VK CDs in a year. That's because I happen to find it more useful to save up my money for a flat, a car licence or anything else I'd like to have in the near future. Also I already buy enough non-japanese music and clothes.

I wish though to spend more money on japanese CDs and rarez once I may get a job and a stable income.

Gaz, it's the internet. The internet is not only for porn, but also for whine

^ Maybe a reference to the Stalin? (the band). Wasn't there somethign about how much Japan hated Stalin which is the reason many bands used his name and communist imagery to piss off the public? Millitary themes in general were for shoking people. It's not unique to either Visual kei or Punk, but could also be found in the Metal scene. See japanese Metal bands like Rommel, Rosenfeld, Harkenkreuz or Mein Kampf. The obsession with Nazi themes predated Visual kei. But I noticed that it almost vanished completely in the last years.

As cliché, cheesy and sometimes embarassing some of the Visual kei fave themes are, I still love them. Some themes seem to have survived after 20 or even 30 years, others have vanished and some themes seem to be new (I can't think now of any that started to become a trend in the recent years. I can mostly only speak for Visual kei trends from ca. 1994 to 2005. But I am sure there are some new themes.)

In the 90s for example there was a huge obsession with anything that dealt with murder, suicide, mental illness and criminality. You were not cool and trve enough if you didn't have at least one song that incorporated it. Even some of the lighter soft Visual kei bands could have songs with titles that had words like "mad", "insane" or "crazy" in it. And the infamous "edgy" indie VK bands were known for their outrageous use of clichés and stereotypes of the mentally ill (straight jackets, making strange movements and facial expressions in front of the camera, asylums, bloody bandages everywhere, our bandmen curling hysterical on the floor and spout like dogs). The amount of songs using words like ”Psychopath“, ”Madness“ and ”Suicide“ were the hit. Also Kuroyume had a song about autism, which was pretty cliché. I heard rumors about japanese people criticizing it as highly offensive too.

Another popular thing was medical fetish and eroguro. The whole blood stains, bandages, eye patches and body horror thing. I really love it, especially doctor outfits. I generally have a huge soft spot for all of that medical fetish stuff and I love people, who play around with the mad doctor/scientist trope. Some would call it iryou kei, but I am personally not sure how much that theme justifies to be it's own kind of style. If it was a thing, then ”vampire kei" or ”aristocrat kei” would be real things too. Also the amount of old bands who had at least one doctor outfit/costume was pretty high back then. Dir en grey did it (well, Kyo at least for Cage), Malice Mizer, some indie bands like Beata, La'Mule (see inspire PV), etc. And then we have all the bands associated to be iryou kei, who mainly use the doctor/medical costumes.

Other terms I have noticed that are very popular and have some connection to topics like murder, death and also sex are: Deathtopia (seriously, why did so many bands used to have song called like that?), S+M, Crime and Punishment (mostly in Japanese, Tsumi to Batsu), Masochism, Knife, Schizophrenia, Miserable…