Ikna

Late reply, sry.

I have checked out Deep Rave a bit and I think I have even downloaded their first self titled release (it's somewhere on my harddrive). Really liked the Luna Sea vibe too. And it seems the new self titled Mini will be in the same direction.

I listen to AvelCain a bit and they are oldschool friendly, but I have a hard time getting used to Karma's growls. His voice in general is an acquired taste. That Scarlet group sounds very interesting.  always thought some doujin bands already sounded very similiar to the more fast paced old vk bands. So it was just a matter of time one would appear that really has obvious old school visual influences.

I also listen to GAUZES, Bugscream and La'veil Mizeria, but they are all in essence "homage" bands who really try to sound like the groups from the 90s. I recently discovered Crimson Shiva for myself. Although they are not really old school they seem to be influenced by it. For me they, along with DEZERT and maybe AvelCain, remind me of the early 00s VK scene. (around 2001-2005, I guess)

To me it seems as if you are equating pop and pop influences with being mediorce, or not true enough. I might be wrong, but that's the impression I get.

I am not a big fan of extremely melodic and soft music either, but pop is such a wide stretched term that it doesn't always need to refer to this type of music. Most Soft VK wasn't that bad, despite being rather poppy, it's just not everyone's taste and it kind of refutes Kote kei enthusiasts' opinion that true Visual kei has to be punky, dark and edgy. I guess what you are probably meaning is the kind of mainstream pop song structures that many VK bands are using and make them seem uninspired, bland and boring. If that's the case I'd agree with you, but so far we can't really tell how much Grieva's new album went this route (or not). Some song previews kind of hint of having wild and crazy parts, they just seem not to be part of the choruses (if even most of the previews were showcasing the choruses).

If I am honest though: I am glad that they try something new. As I said before their first album was consisting mainly of wild and heavy songs. It would be equally boring if they'd continue to do only this kind of music for ever. It would be the best if they can find a good midpoint between melodic VK and heavy fast tempo VK and even better if they'd throw some influences outside of Dir en grey era worshipping into the music (those don't even need to be VK).

Edit: btw, I am basing my opinion on the website previews. I have a graphic design lesson atm and will listen to the amazon previews later.

 

I loved the more Visual Kei sounding songs but I didn't like the popish ones.

 

I think they still sound pretty much like Visual kei... just a bit more melodic. But it's very close to the poppier VK stuff of the 90s.

 

And is it me or does the new album have a slight Matina touch? At least so far most previews sound rather like the medium mixed pop/edgy bands of that label rather than Deg. I like my VK chaotic, mad and weird too, but getting a more melodic album wouldn't be so bad since their first was almost entirely just screaming and heavy rock. The only problem I could see is that the songs may be too similar. No preview has really stuck in my head yet, but maybe the full songs will differ more from each other.

 

One thing I noticed: the bass. I love how you can hear it. There are still VK bands today who cherish this instrument, but quite a lot of groups don't see it as important anymore or it just get's swallowed during production. But Grieva integrate it very well into their compositions and it really adds much to the music, such as thickness, depht and of course that old school feeling.

They also seemed to have become better playing their instruments, I think. The guitar parts sound more polished to me.

 

But let's just wait. 30 sec are really too short, at least for me, to give a full opinion on this album.

Old VK seems to be about taking some melodies and notes from your favourite bands and making a new song of it in general. The whole imitating and copying of each other is probably one of the reasons VK was quite homogenous in the 90s. Not that this has changed much, but instead of emulating Luna Sea, X or Kuroyume bands have started to copy other groups (such as Gazette).

(but errr… we already had the whole Grieva copies Diru discussion)

 

Anyway… I thought about making a new topic, but then didn't since I don't know if it would deserve it's own thread, but are there any modern Vk bands, that are "oldschool" friendly? I mean mostly bands, that have a rather modern sound (and possibly look), so aren't really "kote kei" or comparable to Ru:natic, Grieva and the likes, but who still have a strong musical connection to the older scene and could be appealing to someone who mostly listens to the old stuff from the 90s to the early 00s.

I am trying to find some new VK bands, but most of the stuff I find seems really just the average Electro Rock, Pop or Metalcore music which is so hip at the moment. So far I've discovered cocklobin (who disbanded, sadly) and I have checked Dezert and I kind of like them.

[when Champ said everything, Champ meant EVERYTHING. Irrelevant content deleted, please continue this discussion through PM]

 

About the drummer: they seem to have a new support drummer. I wonder when La'veil are going to release a maxi single, because maybe then that would be more accessible for us non-japanese fans.

I dated a chick that looked abit like you - relationship only lasted 2 weeks sadly.

 

Haha…  not only do I seem to have some of the looks in common but I am not a relationship type of person either XD

Okay, that's really difficult to me, especially when it comes to VK >_< My taste and my fondness of certain bands and their music may change annually, so the list I can provide is showing the current state of my favourites. (and even choosing just 10 of those many faves is hard for me)

 

1. emmurée – currently the band I really love listening to when I go to walk, drive to school or go shopping. Their music is really varied from calming rock songs to really energetic post-punky songs with the kind of late 90s Nagoya kei flair á la Merry go Round that I like

 

2. La'Mule – because Kon is just amazing and they did a lot of really awesome songs

 

3. Phobia – old Nagoya kei rules and I just like Kisuis unique voice

 

4. Merry go Round – More Nagoya love

 

5. Dir en grey – I don't listen to them as much as I used too. Their new material doesn't really make me hooked as much and I start to neglect their earlier material lately too. Regardless of that they still will be one of my top faves, and if it's just because of nostalgia

 

6. Syndrome – Mostly their Tatsuya era stuff. Typical Matina music I favor, so that place can be basically representative of any Matina band (DAS:VASSER, AZALEA, Eze:quL, etc)

 

7. Madeth gray'll – a Matina band that deserves its own mention, because they are A. Kvlt Veekay, B. one of my first old school visual kei finds C. just really cool in their own way

 

8. Aliene Ma'riage – My really very first old school VK band, apart from old Dir en grey. I mostly started out in the first half of the 2000s with the bands active and popular at this time, so I wasn't really aware things like Aliene existed. When I found them via watching old Diru PVs I felt like I was finally discovering something I have always searched for. They aren't my absolute top faves anymore, but I will always love Aliene (and I hope Kyouka gets shit together and starts a new official band that lasts longer than one year)

 

9. Kuroyume – well, mostly their stuff from the beginning to ca. 1994. Feminism is the last record I can listen to.

 

10. グリーヴァ – relatively new and more an homage band, but I enjoy listening to their old school nostalgia wrapped in modern producing technology. And maybe they will use their potential in the future and create something entirely on their own

 

honourable mentions:

 

Moi dix Mois – basically my very first VK band ever. They are still my most played band at lastfm, though not counting all the failed to scrobble from ipod attempts. I stopped listening to them, because I didn't feel their music anymore

D'espairsRay – same story as with Moi dix Mois. Though I may jam some of their songs from time to time

Buck-Tick – didn't include them because 1. not sure if they are really that VK-ish 2. they are faves, but not top faves

LUNA SEA
Shiver

a lot of other old Nagoya kei bands, such as Sleep my Dear, ROUAGE, Laputa or early Fanatic Crisis. Late Nagoya kei is my fave thing too (Lamiel, Blast, Vizell, Kein…)

Metis Gretel

 

Lately I am also really starting to like La'veil Mizeria, Ru:natic, AION and Cell. But let's just stop here.

 

Excuse my weird gaze and the angle, taking a photo with a dslr camera is difficult. Also I need a new haircut >_<

not sure if it's actually him, since I didn't investigate so much, honestly. It's from tumblr and tumblr is quite often not a reliable source, but who knows. There isn't anyone who has seen jabell yet, is there?

Remember when people were flipping shits like pancakes when Yayoi got married (to a woman)?

I remember, lol. But I guess only the old-skewl fans were crazy or was this at a time a larger part of the VK fandom still cared about him? I actually wonder how many of the late 90s bandmember can still ring a bell in other people's ears. I personally think not many (except the members from bands who are still active after 30 years, like Luna Sea, L'arc~en~ciel and so on).

 

 

Does yune from Gazette also count as old vk guy? He has apparently shared a photo of him since he is now in Jabell:

 

 

"Pizza of Death" "Rotten Orange" what's with the names, lol?

I tried to mention the white kei guys as well, see my line about "frilly New Wave boys with Boy George make-up". But yeah, I am a bit ignorant against the bands that totally had no real visual style per se but still counted as VK, such as later Fanatic Crisis or Blüe (who dressed rather mundane). And even those bands weren't a bunch of idealistic host boys. I'd even go to say that Soft Visual kei was generally more accepted as regular Pop-Rock or J-Rock groups anyway. Most people knew them rather as that than visual kei (let alone the fact, that many japanese people don't even know what VK is, but they are aware of the bands associated with the term. This especially seems the case with groups like Shazna, Sophia, Penicillin, Jeanne Da Arc or L'arc~en~Ciel.

 

However: blackdoll was talking about the type of bands in very exaggerated couture and with white painted faces, not about soft kei bands. I don't think it would make so much sense to conter with that anyway, since White kei isn't comparable to most of the modern "Br00tal" Metalcore influenced bands, that seem to be in trend now. I actually don't even know if Soft visual kei still exists, it always seemed to me that it just fusioned with the regular japanese rock scene and Oshare kei pretty much took over to be the "light, bright side of VK". Correct me if I am wrong.

I should be going to sleep, but I just saw the preview and damn... love the outfits! And so far the song is promising. It's not a progression or big change from their other stuff but it's great (and I am totally okay with fast-tempo, aggressive old vk sounds). I get the Kiri to Mayu vibes from the PV as well (and maybe a bit of Ash too?). I actually think the white gowns suit them well, it's something different from their previous all black costumes.

 

I like the CD cover as well. Now I have to order this.

i prefer stuff from  2002 - present. so new vk cause old vk is a blahhh. avelcain does old school mix good though. and im mad reload switch to mainly doing old school what a waste of a wonderful voice! plus old school make up is just white stuff on face and mostly dumb outfits. mana-sama is the only good on from back then

In my opinion THAT is actually what i really love about the old looks. Surely, the outfits were sometimes really silly and exaggerated and the make up sloppy, but i prefer it that way dozen times. Why? Because I feel the old styling looked more raw, dynamic and interesting. It wasn't the complete über-perfection which it is now, some guys looked like Drags, others like punks, the others like a bad version of Sayako from Ju-On. I really dislike how most vk make-up nowadys looks so polished, everything has to be precise and perfect from teint, complexion to eyes and the boring hairstyles.

It makes sense though - new VK guys rather look like Hosts (who are supposed to look like ultimate perfect bishonen straight from your wet manga fantasies) than frilly New Wave boys with Boy George make-up (or oh so spooky goths in drag).

I guess that's where everyone's opinion differs, depending on their taste and aesthetic preferences. I personally adore a well done old school make up (and I tell you - it's very very difficult. I've tried it a few times and it still looks rather "meh". You can fail pretty hard at a late 90s Matina/Soleil style make-up if you aren't really good with the tools. Also: see all early 00s cosplays. All the people who wanted to look like Mana or oldschool Kyo and failed epically...). Especially the white faces are my faves, because they can be expressive (almost Harlekin like), yet it doesn't really matter how beautiful the person is who wears it - they don't need to be super beautiful bishonen and the focus lies more on their style and make up.

Of course I can see and understand people who like new VK make up better. It's more polished, clean and it can be worn outside the stage in mundane life as well- so it is more versatile. Old VK styling is rather extreme and especially the outfits aren't supposed to be worn daily.

 

But I still miss this style though and I am happy a few groups now are still dressing that way.

^ The fate of being an artist. If you publish your work, then there will be people criticising it and not everyone will be nice while doing it.

I and Arithemtica have already talked about Sada and he is indeed terrible, but for old skewl standards it's adorably terrible, it really just misses more typical 90s dark veekay craziness. I'd still wish there would be decent old school VK influenced bands who don't sound just simply boring and awful

People already have mentioned most of the important influental gothic rock and post-punk bands, but I am surprised nobody has mentioned any japanese ones yet. Groups like Madame Edwarda, Phaidia, Neurotic Doll and Sadie Sads had quite a similiar style to many of the post-punkish early visual kei groups of the early 90s, especially Nagoya kei groups like Silver~Rose, early ROUAGE or Gilles de Rais.
Makes sense, since this groups operated within the regions and venues were Visual kei groups later would form, so there was a direct influence.

Also compare Sadie Sads' Glas Bruch (I feel it has quite a strong proto Visual kei flair). G-Schmitt should be worth mentioned too and of course all the other underground gothic rock bands from Japan (ASYLUM, Sex Android, Geil). Some of them are technically considered oldschool visual kei, such as EX-Ans or VOISS.

Oh and: if you mention Bauhaus then you should not forget Siouxsie and the Banshees. Their influence on early visual kei is often overlooked, maybe because it's not all too obvious, but the Banshees were quite big in Japan (and Siouxsie herself was influenced by japanese fashion and culture). Siouxsie was your typical 80s goth prototype as a lot of (new) wavers, punks and new romantics aimed to look like her. Black backcomped hair, massive amounts of dark eyeshadow and red lipstick are her trademark – and you happen to see this exact look a lot in early Vk bands too. Inoran from Luna Sea almost looked like a male japanese version of her.

Big But: I'd rather put all of this bands in a seperate thread called "Influences/origins of visual kei". Because it's a bit weird to say that those groups remind me of visual kei, when it's rather that this groups influenced (among other bands from different genres) visual kei (so early Vkei reminds me of the old Punk and New Wave stuff and not the other way round). For me most of them are still post-punk groups. A thread about the history, influences and origins of visual kei (and how it shifted from Hard/Glam/Punk-Rock and New Wave inspired music into the weird style mix thing it is today) would be very interesting though! (especially since I only know about the wave and goth origins so i'd be interested to hear about the other influences).

When it comes to groups outside of the "has influnces Visual kei in soe way" spectrum... then I don't know any bands who remind me of Vk. Sure, a lot of goth, Hardrock, Nu-Metal, etc bands sounded similiar to the struff from the late 80s to 90s, but as said again: that's because those genres had a definite influence on Visual kei. I don't remember seeing so many other modern bands drawing influence from VK, let alone being similiar to it (without having the intention of being a VK band).
Some people would argue that groups like Black Veil Brides are reminding them of Visual kei because of their looks... I wonder if the band does even know about Visual kei's existence? (I don't know, I am not a fan of them). But I can see why people would have the idea that make-up heavy Metalcore (or Emo?) groups are VK, especially since the musical style became popular within the Visual kei scene in the recent years too.

There was even a time magazines tried to sell those finnish rock bands full of adrogynous men to sell as Visual Kei. And bands like Tokio Hotel... most of the time it#s just the look which is reminiscent (or comparable) to Visual kei, but that's it.

Agree with everything said before. Old school VK demo tapes kick ass ;D I often prefer the demo versions over the proper studio recordings (if there any), because I like the low-fi and "raw" sound of tapes. The studio re-recoarding often lacks this charisma and tends to be too clean for my taste.
 
Best example: Deep Sky and Sexual by Syndrome. I don't like the Sexual Remix on their Remix Single as much as the original tape version (and the re-recoarded version on the de-light taoe is fine too). Deep Sky on Sosei sounds a bit different (also lacks a whole part which was in the tape version) and it's too clean.

I love most of the Matina band tapes, especially the song 夢又夢... by Das:Vasser from the 青玉-サファイア- tape.
 
Other favs:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuwxZbikhGU

 

 

(anything by Ruellia actually! Oh and does anyone have that tape here? XD)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui19pDjXeok

(so deliciously low budget)

 

 

I have to say that the low fi aesthetic is not only limited to tapes. Quite a lot of vinyl recordings have that charme as well, especially in certain genres like Gothic Rock, Punk Rock, Post Punk, Minimal (Electro), Noise and Shoegaze.
This industrial piece by Cabaret Voltaire for example fully embraces it.

Why do most non-asian Visual kei bands always end up looking like either Mallgoths or Emos? :/
(my thoughts about the music are in the other thread... but I repeat it again: the vocalist sounds terribly monotonous)

I actually think he looks okay. XD Isn't really the youngest anymore and honestly... many VK bandmembers look like shit without their make-up and intense photoshop airbrushing.

Sounds very old school-ish and reminds me a lot of the type of melodic visual kei songs from the mid 90s or Matina bands. (was Syndrome maybe an inspiration? I think you have done a Nostalgia cover, Neolicht) I hope you find some new members, I feel this project has potential.

And yeah, also agreeing that you should also look up some of the post-punk/goth rock influenced stuff. With the kind of guitar playing in the dystopia song I feel it would fit very easily into your groups disco. Key Party bands are defintely a good start for inspiration, especially Aliene Ma'riage or Eliphas Levi.

Yeah, that list looks nice. At least Grieva aren't like Phantasmagoria who would re-release and replay the same 10 old songs over and over.

@Hyura: we all have our dreams I'd be very glad as well if Grieva would start to incorporate song structures and influences from other oldschool bands. Even though 90s bands all copied each other resulting in certain elements appearing in a lot of sogs of different groups there is still such a big pool of different styles of the era you could draw inspiration from. I am sure Grieva can pull off a typical Matina sound (Azalea, Mist of Rouge or maybe DAS:VASSER). They probably won't be able to make a pure Madeth gray'll tribute song, because Kyouki's voice doesn't really fit (in my opinion), but if they mix it it would be very awesome (Dir en grey + Madeth mix).

Animu Yakuza kei!

recently there are a lot of one day revivals of Matina bands which is so nice.

Now if someone could please pay me a flight to Japan, it would be perfect and very kawaii, thx.

I love Ruellia! Glad that they are going to re-form.

Pömpel... ich glaube, dass man das bei uns in Ö auch nicht sagt XD

 

^ Es gibt schon ein Paar Dinger, die Östereicher sagen, die mir ein Rätsel sind. "Das geht sich nicht aus" zum Beispiel. Oder "Ist das jetz fix, dass....?".

Was genau ist an "das geht sich nicht aus" komisch? XD Okay, für mich ist es als Österreicherin völlig klar, was es heißt, aber ich denke man kann es auch so recht gut verstehen, wenn man quasi bildlich denkt. "Fix" ist bei uns generell so eine Art universal-Ding. Es kann sowohl "fertig", "klar/eindeutig" oder "Ist Klar/ Machen wir!" heißen (z.b. wenn jemand ruft "Das ist fix!"). So ähnlich ist es dann auch mit dem Begriff "ur", was ursprünglich eben von "uralt" kommt, aber bei uns auch als Wort verwendet wird. Z.b. "Ur super", das heißt dann "Total super". Ich glaube, dass es das auch in manchen Regionen in Deutschland gibt?

"Beömmeln" ist mir seltsamerweise auch bekannt, weiß aber nicht woher.
Aber sagen nicht manche Berliner auch "dat"? Oder habe ich mich da während meines kleinen Berlin-Ausflugs verhört? XD

 

Kennt eigentlich irgendwer die sogenannten "Krocha"? Das waren eine Jugendgruppe, die sich in Österreich innerhalb der Clubbing Szene entwickelt hat und das Verwenden von Wörtern wie "fix" zum Lebensmotto gemacht haben. Sahen auch ziemlich scheiße aus mit ihren lustigen Hosen und Neon-Kappen. Anscheinend gabs vor ein paar Jahren, als die noch "in" waren einige Befürchtungen, dass sich der Trend nach Deutschland ausbreiten würde (was ich aber immer skeptisch betrachtet habe, aufgrund der Sprachbarrieren).