Dir en grey

[Crube 585]

I still don't understand the censoring. It's one of the reasons why I don't put the song on a high pedestal like a lot of fans.

[emmny 4139]

"freak baby" rlly bitch????? thats what they had beef with ??? #stop japanese censorship

[Saishu 1589]

I just checked the performance on the Osaka-jo Hall DVD; Kyo sings "kikeiji".

Apparently it's really not a nice word, and since it was DEG's first major label release, Sony probably made the decision to censor it. Let's not forget they had to spell "hypodermic syringe" backwards. And then the whole "Tsumi to Kisei" debacle.

[emmny 4139]

#LEAVE kyo alone

 

 

so im assuming the indies bands that add beeps in their songs do it for style? i doubt their management gives a fuck what they say if they barely have any fans.

[nekkichi 6042]

might be a style choice, might be preventing potential major label from being put off by actual recorded lyrics being 2 controversial or smth

[Saishu 1589]

No idea, just saying that Japan isn't very forgiving with censorship.

Though how they had more of a problem with one word in Mazohyst than the entire lyrical content of Tsumi to Batsu is beyond me.

[Pretsy 1343]

Did DEG ever receive any "Parental Advisory" stickers or any kind of censor warning while they were full-on vk? I think Kisou should have had one seeing as there were many songs which expressed quite taboo-y subjects in very straightforward way (Embryo's album version, anyone?) - kinda funny that their "Parental advised" status was emphasized when they became quite known internationally (if we assumed that 2005 was the year of their stardom, *cough* Average Psycho).

 

Ps. to compare, Gazette got their Parental-stickers quite early in their career (2003-ish), lol.

 

Speaking of Mazohyst, I don't get that much hate either - I am quite indifferent about it nowadays, but it was certainly one of the most memorable, coherent over-7miners in their repertoire (my biggest problem with Mazohyst is that how depressing it is in album's context).

 

To Dogman: I didn't get the reference nor its relation to the context of our convo? Is it really hard to understand the fact that DEG fans who enjoy their earlier execution and preference (albeit still holding their era of cohesive sounds, aka MOAB-Uroboros in high regard) are still able to voice their own concerns involving lack of audible chemistry in their "epics"? For some DEG is the band who "should just pull off Blut Aus Nord and have balladless DSS-y set of 10-min mammoths" (hint: le French guy said this), for some DEG is the quintet who shines in their catchier, much more compact numbers (incl. me)...

[DogManX 179]

To Pretzels: You are not "DEG-fans", you are you. And I don't like stupid theories. Hearing out a "lack of chemistry" or whatever is your deal. To me they write whatever they write. If it's good it's good. If not, it's not. That counts for any song they write, no matter how long. I don't need pseudo-explanations to why certain songs just don't work with me.

 

Got it ?

[Pretsy 1343]

To Pretzels: You are not "DEG-fans", you are you. And I don't like stupid theories. Hearing out a "lack of chemistry" or whatever is your deal. To me they write whatever they write. If it's good it's good. If not, it's not. That counts for any song they write, no matter how long. I don't need pseudo-explanations to why certain songs just don't work with me.

 

Got it ?

 

Tell the band members themselves to quit on their ridiculous revelations through Haiiro no Ginka-mags then, rofl.

 

Jesus motherfucking christ for the fact that you missed the context though, #bye.

[Saishu 1589]

I know I'm new here, but maybe your point would come across better if you were less obtuse.

[Crube 585]

I know I'm new here, but maybe your point would come across better if you were less obtuse.

Welcome to this board. It's usually like this when it comes to certain bands, but don't take it to heart.

[Saishu 1589]

Well, no, I'm not offended or anything. I just get a little lost halfway thru Pretzels' posts.

[emmny 4139]

pretz ily

this is the one place on the internet where blut aus nord and dir en grey would be discussed in the same breath

[Bear 1817]

It is?

[DogManX 179]

What's it with Blut aus Nord? Never heard of that band. Must have missed the context..

[Bear 1817]

Blut aus Nord is a French atmospheric black metal/avant-garde/ambient band. Not sure why he/she would consider this the only place on the internet where people would discuss these bands, though.

[emmny 4139]

nah blut aus nord are talked about everywhere, but BAN and dir en grey in the same post is such a curious thing

[Saishu 1589]

Just watched the Average Psycho 2 DVD and honestly can't figure out what was cut out from Agitated Screams of Maggots and Unraveling. And there's still blurred out stuff at the end of Revelation of Mankind, so...

[Pretsy 1343]

Actually bothering to read behind-the-scenes stuff, sales figures (i.e. being curious about where they'd go now) etc. equals obtuseness now - okay then Saishu

 

My BAN reference is mainly based on the fact that DEG fandom has a huge lack of casual fans who won't try to push their proggy elements forth and decry those who are at least somewhat vocal about the past being more "up their alley" (since 'kool kids don't do trannydom anymore', right?) - hence me throwing at least one known name that would satisfy folks circa post-Uroboros. Oh, I never mentioned that MH would be the place for anything BAN-related - feel free to enlighten which part you interpreted as such

 

Anyways, let's derail this drama for a while: I spotted a few fun details while keeping a skeptic, yet fanatic eye on these guys:

 

 

No one talked about Shinya "renewing" himself for once

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20JhDSTSLMk

 

Also, kinda adorable moment @LUNATIC FEST

I like how Toshers stamped J's signature bass logo onto his own, dawww

 

Also, some rumors say Kaoru is gonna have his "autobiography" out sooner or later?

[Saishu 1589]

I was always under the impression that Shinya was dragged kicking and screaming into the band's "non-VK" phase, which is why he kind of always maintained his feminine look. But then Toshiya started wearing skirts/kilts. And then the promo pics for ARCHE came out and it seemed like the band was sort of dipping their toes back into the visual pool again.

 

I read a rumor that Shinya wanted to leave the band when they decided to be less VK, and Kaoru saying that Shinya is the most stubborn when it comes to ideas being presented to him makes me think it's true. 

[Pretsy 1343]

I was always under the impression that Shinya was dragged kicking and screaming into the band's "non-VK" phase, which is why he kind of always maintained his feminine look. But then Toshiya started wearing skirts/kilts. And then the promo pics for ARCHE came out and it seemed like the band was sort of dipping their toes back into the visual pool again.

 

I read a rumor that Shinya wanted to leave the band when they decided to be less VK, and Kaoru saying that Shinya is the most stubborn when it comes to ideas being presented to him makes me think it's true. 

You've gotta give kudos to Kaoru for actually attempting to motivate everyone lately - including less enthusiastic Shinya to put stuff together in terms of songwriting (guess he is the "main pillar" of the band?). Earlier a.k.a after MOAB it was mainly Die and Kaoru contributing ideas with very minimal contributions from others (minus Toshiya who had his moments once in a while). "Main pillar of the band", I suppose?

 

(Ps. this could be noted on how majority of ARCHE tracks minus Rinkaku feel more straightforward and less random structurally speaking ).

 

Also - when I discussed this "less chemistry"-characteristic in Dir en grey's songwriting, I meant 2010-2013: as far as I remember, even certain interviews implied they had no proper social contact between each other e.g. while recording THE UNRAVELING - Kyo being mostly absent, members mainly stuck in doing their shit on macs in the same room without talks etc (I think even Kaoru noted that too). Consequently, I still hold my theories in high regard and see them as rather plausible reasons for their mishmash at that time. 

 

Lastly, I believe Kyo is becoming less interested in DEG too - you could also note that by noticing how much he does have to say about songwriting processes with his DEG mates nowadays (read: almost none, mostly just indifference).

 

 

 

Sources: take your time and dig up in Haiiro no Ginka interviews circa DSS promo - Unraveling promo, especially those with Kaoru, Kyo and Shinya (less likely to "lie" about behind-the-scenes stuff)

[Saishu 1589]

Yeah, I read that interview where they admitted to all being in the same room, writing music on their laptops and just sending shit back and forth instead of actually going into a rehearsal space and jamming out the actual ideas. This is what hurt the DSS and Unraveling material in a live setting, because once they went to actually play the songs together, they had a hard time figuring out how to get it to work (no thanks to all the overdubbing, no doubt). I think this same series of interviews had the damning comment from Toshiya where he said that Shinya would program drum parts on the computer that he couldn't consistently replicate himself, but that's a WHOLE different discussion altogether.

 

So supposedly that changed with ARCHE, and I think it's pretty evident with the relatively straightforward songwriting. Rinkaku being the one exception probably because it was 2 years old by the time ARCHE was done, and they were in a different place at the time.

 

I personally haven't noticed anything indicating Kyo is getting tired of DEG, but considering he has another outlet with Sukekiyo it wouldn't surprise me. But Kyo has always seemed withdrawn and guarded in every interview I've seen/read.

[Ro plz 1290]

 This is what hurt the DSS and Unraveling material in a live setting, because once they went to actually play the songs together, they had a hard time figuring out how to get it to work (no thanks to all the overdubbing, no doubt). I think this same series of interviews had the damning comment from Toshiya where he said that Shinya would program drum parts on the computer that he couldn't consistently replicate himself, but that's a WHOLE different discussion altogether.

 

So supposedly that changed with ARCHE, and I think it's pretty evident with the relatively straightforward songwriting. Rinkaku being the one exception probably because it was 2 years old by the time ARCHE was done, and they were in a different place at the time.

 

I personally haven't noticed anything indicating Kyo is getting tired of DEG, but considering he has another outlet with Sukekiyo it wouldn't surprise me. But Kyo has always seemed withdrawn and guarded in every interview I've seen/read.

 

Yeah I remember hearing more or less of the same thing regarding Shinya. At first that I thought it was a lack of practicing (but that could also be it too), that led to the consistent sloppiness on his part, live. I actually wondered if it was humanly possible for him 2 do the stuff I was hearing in the studio versions. I knew something was up but i NEVER would've figured that some of that was programming, haha. 

 

Their writing process for ARCHE is why I listen to it more than i do DSS, these days. DSS is a cool album but it doesn't feel like there's a band presence there. And with the exception of a few performances and such, the live timeline of that album has been iffy at best. Till this day, the Uroboros themed lives are the best the band has done.

 

As for Kyo, yeah. Nothing there 2 indicate that he's tired of Dir en grey. And to his defense......i remember watching that Boo stream before ARCHE and he flat out told Boo that he's not gonna answer certain question because he's answered them so many times before. I can imagine how much of a bore that must be for not only him but the band to keep having to repeat themselves year after year bout the same stuff interviews. I would even go as far to say thats why they're so Anti-"VIP" overseas. No way can forcibly sitting in a room before a show, being asked dumbass/rehashed questions can be fun. 

[Saishu 1589]

When I heard those two huge, fast drum fills in the new versions of Kiri to Mayu and Karma, I knew something was up too. Shinya can't even come close to matching them live, it's actually a little embarrassing. I don't think it's a matter of practice, he's just not really cut out for intricate metal drumming. He always sounds so off when playing songs like Different Sense and Hageshisa.

[emmny 4139]

this thread always turns into beef about long songs, disputing fan faves, and shinyas drumming

nvr change