I met YOSHIKI and asked about western visual kei

[Vitne Eveille 65]

The other day I met YOSHIKI.  I was at a showing of We Are X in Oslo, Norway.  Norway doesn't have a huge VK scene so I was happy he had come.  It turned out to be his first time in Norway.

 

I asked him "Can western bands be visual kei?"  -  He laughed and replied "Of course!"

 

So I followed up with "If a western band is to be visual kei, is there something they must adhere to, in terms of style or aesthetic?"

 

He explained VK is more of a mindset, born out of them feeling like they didn't really fit in anywhere.  As he said, they played "super heavy" and "super soft" music.  He also told me about a festival he hosted recently where the bands were everything from metal to pop, and there was even a band that didn't play music (that got some laughs around the room).  He summed everything up by saying it really isn't a genre, but more of a mindset allowing yourself to be as creative as you want.  And it also generally has makeup.

 

I am summing these things up from memory.

 

So here's my take on VK:

1.  You must be influenced by Japan/Japanese music (because after all, it originates from Japan). 

2.  Make creative use of makeup/visuals. 

3.  Be somewhat diverse in terms of style. 

4.  Be doing your own thing confidently (basically:  be true to yourself, because people and fans can see through you being a cookie-cutter).

 

So basically, no you don't have to have a lolita in the band.  One member doesn't have to wear a surgical facemask at all times.  You don't have to have death-metal growls in your music.  Some music fans within genres and subcultures get really elitist and that gets irritating, especially when people say that VK is only Japanese (so is glam-metal only truly American?  Can you not make Brazilian samba music if you aren't from Brazil?).  VK is unique in that it is vague but also has a meaning.  A band alone isn't just "visual kei" but "visual kei rock" would be a better indicator.  I think in that sense, the addition of the term "visual kei" before "rock" to me would indicate the above traits I listed, like being influenced by Japan, be somewhat "different" in terms of makeup/visuals and potentially have a diverse musical style.

 

I had a blast meeting YOSHIKI.  He's a funny and nice guy, and it was an honor having him in Norway.

[nekkichi 6043]

so you had an opportunity to ask for his opinion on the developing north korea nuclear crisis and its relation to the everyday lives of japanese people, but went for validation of die/may existence from the mouth of VK godmother herself?

 

 

may your patreon always prosper, x.

[-NOVA- 3027]

I've always thought of vk as something not exclusive to Japan. The reasons i believe western vk gets so much dissaproval is because for the most part people that attempt vk that are non Japanese come off as cringy or just not as good when compared to vk bands from Japan. Elitists will argue vk is exclusive to Japan but i dont think so. When it comes to vk Japan does it best but that does not mean no one else should attempt it. Western vk bands arent as common... but if we truely want to see vk grow we should encourage those that do attempt vk. Visual-kei has several influences from other subgenres and it ended up adding its own unique aesthetic and became something new. If people had shun vk for taking influences several years ago it wouldnt have become what it is today. Im happy to hear Yoshiki's stance on this. Thanks for sharing this 

[lichtlune 915]

I just don't like that label. Just call it glam or something else. KISS existed before x japan after all. I think western bands can do something similar but they might not be able to pull off an exact replica. Not unless you're a talented femboy from Sweden who can speak and write Japanese. Forming a visual kei band is difficult enough on it's own. Throw learning to sing an entirely different language on top of that and it just becomes that much harder. And then there's Production, Makeup, Costumes, etc.  All of this work to try and appeal to a small niche of people who'd probably rather just listen to Japanese visual kei anyway.

 

I'll also chime in with something a little more controversial. White people just don't typically look good in visual kei style. It took me a long time to accept that reality and it sucks I know. We age like shit and our noses are too big. Although girls can usually pull it off a lot better than us guys can. I've mostly given up the fantasy of being in a visual kei band now. I'll always be a fan though because it's shaped my whole life. 

Edited October 21, 2017 by lichtlune

[HotaruFilth 397]

One of the elderly bandsmen I deeply respect told me recently, that he felt quite uncomfortable when he saw western bands trying to be visual kei. It makes him feel like the japanese visual kei is  ダサい too. Well, sometimes it really is. 

[Himeaimichu 1535]

I think anyone from any country can be VisualKei. Obviously, it's home will always been in Japan, but welcoming bands from other countries would allow the movement to progress much further.

I think VisualKei could also bring attention to Rock Music in some countries, where Rock Music isn't very popular, or used to be but is forgotten, like China and Korea. 

I think it can also challenge people to break norms in conformity obsessed societies, and even help people discover their identity. VisualKei personally inspired me to start crossdressing, wearing makeup and eventually made me realise I was trans.  My girlfriend has actually helped people discover they were bisexual after showing them Vkei. 

Of course, I'm biased because I plan to be a VisualKei musician in the future, me with my mediocre vocal skills. 

I sound like I go too deep into this, but I do care about VisualKei a lot. It can have it's really ehhhhhhhhhh moments, and honestly be a hotbed for shitty musicians, but it's also a unique subculture. An indie based rock movement with a very sizeable following. Among Japanese Music, it's a really good break from the boring idol music, and in my opinion, has sparked some new genres of rock music here and there. 

To say people in other countries can't/shouldn't be Vkei, is just closed off and elitist. Sure, not many bands have done it right, but I feel that there could be a band that will do it right in the future. The only foreign band I like mildly is Bataar, but even then, I know there could be much better. 

I have faith that if foreign Vkei is encouraged, one of these days, we'll get a really skilled band out there. 

[jaymee 405]

I don't mind non-Japanese bands attempting to look/"sound" visual kei, but the problem is that more often than not it's usually more inferior than even the most inferior of offerings Japanese visual kei has to offer. I don't really listen to YOHIO nor follow the online drama that surrounds any topic about him, but he seems to at least be doing VK right from a visual and musical perspective. (Irregardless if his music is your cup of tea or not.)

 

But honestly most older VK musicians don't even care for the slew of bands who are currently "popular" now, let alone some random foreigner person. Yoshiki, despite his other misgivings, is at least still actively open to supporting and the idea of new talent so his answer doesn't surprise me. 

[ChaoticEnding 2070]

 

I hope you find Dynamite Tommy and ask him the same thing. Maybe it's interesting.

[nekkichi 6043]

he worked with bataar, I think it's v unlikely he's gonna shit-talk weaboo-kei after that

[Vitne Eveille 65]

In terms of the "elderly bandsman" mentioned above, I would imagine many artists have felt that way within various genres and subcultures.  I imagine Motley Crue looked at some of the up-and-coming bands in the very late 80s and cringed at the overly flamboyant and derivative style of the late glam-metal bands.  And oddly enough, it seems that when most people think of glam-metal, they think of that Poison "poodle" look, and not the Motley Crue "Shout at the Devil" look, which was actually toward the beginning.  I'd say not many think of early X Japan when thinking of VK, but rather more of a band like Royz, as an example.

 

Basically, it was just refreshing to hear this directly from Yoshiki, and I thought I would share that with you.  Personally, I don't believe you have to look like a manga character to be VK, but there should certainly be that "essence of Japan" that is noticeable (but you certainly can look like a manga character).  Just like to be glam-metal, you don't have to look or sound like Poison (as much as I like them), and you also don't have to be Steel Panther.

 

Thanks for all the open-minded replies!

[Yukimoto 1237]

I actually really like this post and I agree with Yoshiki but honestly it only goes as far as hearing it from someone that is also Japanese and has been in the game since the start!

 

The older guy that cringed at western vkei band and thought it made it look uncool, I'm not to sure why... If they were bad then ok but honestly vkei is always a work in progress even some of the most well-known artist have bad vocals and maybe would do better with some training but for me as long as a person is doing what they love and I like what they bring to the table I'll follow them. If it's not my cup of tea then I just find what I like somewhere else.

[BrenGun 2261]

There where some good vkei bands around some years ago.

However the good ones died nowdays.

I still think Tokio Hotel was a bit of visual and also let's not forget Cinema bizzare.

 

Yet all Japanese vkei bandman have their own opinion. 

 

And if someone starts a vkei band outside of Japan, their language can be their own or just English. no need for Japanese! Then you also will reach more people.  

[Zeus 7997]

I'd like to take YOSHIKI's quote and add my own context.
 

5 hours ago, Vitne Eveille said:

He explained VK is more of a mindset, born out of them feeling like they didn't really fit in anywhere.  As he said, they played "super heavy" and "super soft" music.  He also told me about a festival he hosted recently where the bands were everything from metal to pop, and there was even a band that didn't play music (that got some laughs around the room).  He summed everything up by saying it really isn't a genre, but more of a mindset allowing yourself to be as creative as you want.  And it also generally has makeup.

 

This is the key. Visual kei was born out of Japan by those who felt like they didn't fit in anywhere in Japan. YOSHIKI isn't going to say that visual kei can't exist world wide because that's not good for his bottom line, but there's a very good reason why it hasn't taken off outside Japan. It has less to do with looks, singing capability, or chosen musical direction, and more to do with anti-conformity and rebelliousness within and against a homogeneous society. No other country faces the same mix of societal pressures and obligations the way the Japanese do, and as these pressures change over time visual kei changes over time too. This is in contrast to musicians from Western countries who want to emulate the style and look to their favorite and popular artists first. It's the difference between taking a picture, and taking a picture of that picture, and taking a picture of that picture. The farther away one gets away from the source and the conditions that cause that source, the less authentic the final product is.

 

6 hours ago, Vitne Eveille said:

So basically, no you don't have to have a lolita in the band.  One member doesn't have to wear a surgical facemask at all times.  You don't have to have death-metal growls in your music.  Some music fans within genres and subcultures get really elitist and that gets irritating, especially when people say that VK is only Japanese (so is glam-metal only truly American?  Can you not make Brazilian samba music if you aren't from Brazil?).  VK is unique in that it is vague but also has a meaning.  A band alone isn't just "visual kei" but "visual kei rock" would be a better indicator.  I think in that sense, the addition of the term "visual kei" before "rock" to me would indicate the above traits I listed, like being influenced by Japan, be somewhat "different" in terms of makeup/visuals and potentially have a diverse musical style.

I fully agree with this. So many bands follow trends because it's the thing to do, but at some point a trend started as a unique idea. Much as I expect musicians to look within themselves and put their feelings into music, I expect inspiring Western visual kei musicians to do the same thing with their looks. The looks are supposed to be an expression of how one feels, not a style of the decade to phone in and gain legitimacy.

I do think Western visual kei is a thing that can happen but the form it would assume would be so different we wouldn't even recognize it by looks alone. My ideal Western visual kei band would be identifiable with the sound alone. We would hear them and just know where those influences came from instead of the "lol i like visual kei and pocky" archetype that usually translates over first.

I'm done ranting.


 

[saishuu 3220]

western visual kei is absolute garbage, there you go

[madygrain 515]

Can westerners visual kei?

 

Yoshiki: Yes www

 

Me, an intelectual: no

 

[The Libertine 2]

You should have slapped him in the face.  Too bad I met him before he promised  and started multiple projects and ended up doing nothing for over a decade... otherwise I'd backhand that clown.