My Opinion on Nocturnal Bloodlust`s Recent Remarks and Actions against `Piracy`

[Champ213 1858]

To be honest, I don't blame anyonone, "artist" or not, for wanting to make money. Hey, I want to make money too, don't we all? Money is good. And I don't think the expectation that the effort put into a record should result in some cash return is unreasonable.

 

 

However. It seems that piracy is giving some artists a false sense of scale. Artists and labels tend to equate each illegal download with a lost sale. 5000 people have pirated a record? So they calculate 5000 x ???$ in lost revenue and mourn all the money they didn't make.

 

The cold hard truth however is that probably only a minority of those 5000 cares enough for the music that they would pay for it. Especially in vk, where people tend to just grab stuff because it's vk (probably applies to other genres too though.)

 

If there was no piracy artists still have to make their fans interested enough that they are actually want to spend money on them.

 

 

Oh, and acting against people on Youtube is even more pointless. I have yet to meet a single person that says "I don't buy CDs because I can listen to songs on YT."

[Mr Bacon 106]

I get where NB are coming from, and I kind of agree with the comments in the first post.

 

Let me first say that I used to download loads of music illegally, but since the advent of Spotify, that's become my main thing to listen to music. As for Jap music, I still mostly download. But... if I think  a certain band or release is good/epic, I will buy the original. I have about 300 CDs, and loads of vinyl, DVDs, and casettes.

 

I think that if you claim to be a fan of a band, you should support them in any way you can. Buy an album, buy a T-shirt, I don't care. If physical stuff isn't readily available, email them and you'll probably be able to work something out (I did this with Tokyo Heroes), or bring it to their attention that there's fans willing to buy their stuff in other countries as well. If not, platforms such as Itunes exist. You can't claim to be a diehard fan of a band but be unwilling to support them.

A non-Jap band I'm fan of released 3 singles, all for $1. I bought each of em for $3-5(Bandcamp), just because I love their music and sincerity and want to support them. Each time I got a personal email back saying "Thank you Bryan, this means more to us than you think!" They make music for their fans, and if their fans support them, they give their personal gratitude in return.

 

I agree with what Tokage said about music as a form of art. I have to add though, that many artists, and even mostly the smaller ones, also put time and creativity in the CD's artwork and packaging. If you just get the music, you only get 75% of the complete piece of art.

Then again, I also agree with his remark about originality, haha.

 

Oh and also, I'm pro-buying directly from the band, no intermediates. Tons of bands use bigcartel or bandcamp or their own webstore and sell CDs, downloads and merch through those channels. If you buy it from there, you'll know the money ends up where it belongs - in the hands of the artists.

 

TL;DR I think you should support bands financially when you claim to be a fan, in any small way you can. I have no problem with downloading music to try it out, but if you like it enough to call yourself a fan, fuck'n buy it and don't be a pretentious freeloader.

[Shmilly 519]

A kind of side point that I think applies mostly to the visual kei scene is live-distributed singles and DVDs. Not only are they ridiculously limited to begin with, but not just foreign fans but even domestic ones probably have no chance to ever hear/see them. If bands are so worried about losing money to piracy, why do they invest the time, effort and money to produce a limited run of a new song and then give it away free to a handful of fans who go to one concert, never to be seen again? I'm frustrated to no end by this practice. Case in point, I missed Signal's last live and I've been searching for the single Crossing fate ever since. It doesn't seem to exist in the used market or on auction at all. This is also relevant to NB because recently they distributed Triangle Carnage and it even shows up on their site's discography page. "We don't want you to pirate our music, but by the way here's a song you can't buy and you will never know what it sounds like".

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

Yeah. I'll start buying your cd's when you start paying royalties to Suicide Silence for Pleasure of Torture. 

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

I do wish more foreign bands did use outlets like iTunes, Spotify (if they fixed their fucking tags. None of this basic bitch romanji crap), or even Amazon, to sell their stuff digitally. UNDER CODE sort of got good at this for like 6 months, then magically stopped updating things, and Kisaki even had his own digital mp3 store for Matina stuff that magically stopped one day.

 

I would definitely buy more music if there was an affordable outlet like that--it is so much easier to spend $30 to buy 3~7 albums digitally (assuming they cost $4.99~9.99) than it is to spend $22 to import a single with 2 tracks on it. Most of the money spent on imports isn't even going to the artist! A good chunk is literally shipping fees, sometimes customs, and 3rd party service fees. 

 

For example: I'd love to be Penicillin's "Missing Link" album from Lucy's Pocket. They have it up there for around 400 yen, which is ridiculously cheap. However, I'd have to pay a shopping fee (depending on where, could be 400~700 yen for that price), shipping fees for both domestic and trans-pacific shipping (300 + anywhere from 900~1500). Suddenly a $5 CD becomes somewhere around $27. Imagine doing this in bulk, too. People sell boxes of old demotapes on ebay all the time, but they're also heavy which probably means I'm looking at $30 in shipping. 

 

While there's methods of minimizing shipping, like ordering in bulk or paying a convict to swim across the ocean with your CD in a plastic baggy, sometimes it really doesn't seem worth it unless you are really keen on collecting.

[lichtlune 915]

 

Oh, and acting against people on Youtube is even more pointless. I have yet to meet a single person that says "I don't buy CDs because I can listen to songs on YT."

 

Well I've met some few people that have said just that. A lot of people DO listen to music on youtube primarily. In fact I've had some people ask me to upload some of my own work onto youtube lol.

[nekkichi 6043]

NB basically killed themselves when going visual kei lmfao

ror what? so they weren't a VK band in the first place? masa, have a tokyo dome of seats than, I'm pretty sure the subject twitter tirade came out of his delusional expectations, basically

 

1) bijuaru kei is weaboo-famous & brazil, murrica, europa and asia elsewhere loves it 

2) bijuaru kei bands are sold out on itunes

3) so if we all go drag & get qt hair & hire a make up artistian, while playing same shitty -core that no one else obv done before in bijiaru kei (bc we invented it!!!), we get gaijin-famous and get many peso, much oiro and very many itunes dolla!! (and internet fameous too, so we gotting bitcoin as werru!)

 

I don't see where it all could've gone wrong, like, on so many levels AT ALL tbh

 

Bit offtopic but.

Am I the only one who thinks this analogy is really fucked up? how is pirating music similar to sexual harassment?

this analogy is really fucked up

the only correlation between VK bootlegs & sexual harassment is that bloodlust's label is probably fucking them w/o lube over disappointing sales, so that's legit rape & everyone who ever mediafired their music is now responsible

[Wonrei 108]

I just wonder sometimes how can the japanese market(not only the music one) be so outdated. Every band out there in the west does album streams, or at least lets you listen to 2 or 3 tracks before the release. With japanese bands you may end up getting only 1:30 minutes of a PV and you will only be able to a full track if you buy it or illegally download it. In some bands it's even worse... Dir en grey only lets you listen to the chorus of the single. And there's also the bands that block their youtube content to countries that aren't japan.

 

The japanese seem to try really hard to make no one listen to their music. I know it's the country where they still use Fax, but pls japan 2014 already

[sai 868]

ror what? so they weren't a VK band in the first place? masa, have a tokyo dome of seats than, I'm pretty sure the subject twitter tirade came out of his delusional expectations, basically

 

Nope, Nocturnal Buttlust was basically your average non-VK metalcore band who (according to Zess, Deith, and other people who are familiar with the genre) actually produced pretty neat stuff. They then decided one day to go VK (and lost a lot of their previous fans because of it, mostly because the material afterwards is said to be really inferior to their non-VK music). I also heard the current VK NB is trying to be either similar to DEG or wants to get to their level, not completely sure about that (someone told me they said that so I wouldn't really put it as a reliable source).

 

No idea why they decided to go full-on VK though. They seem to be appearing over the internet a lot more since going VK (since the VK fanbase is more active on the internet than the non-VK fanbase, or so it seems from my personal experience), but I'm not sure if their fanbase has increased because of it. They lost a lot of their old fans and got visual kei fans in their place, but I don't really think they gained a lot in the end. I'm not sure how popular the metalcore scene was in Japanese indie-music, or how many indie fans liked them before going VK, but I can't really think of a solid reason for a non-VK band to go VK all of a sudden.

 

Nocturnal Buttlust before they turned VK (as a reference):

 

[JukaForever 758]

I just wonder sometimes how can the japanese market(not only the music one) be so outdated. Every band out there in the west does album streams, or at least lets you listen to 2 or 3 tracks before the release. With japanese bands you may end up getting only 1:30 minutes of a PV and you will only be able to a full track if you buy it or illegally download it. In some bands it's even worse... Dir en grey only lets you listen to the chorus of the single. And there's also the bands that block their youtube content to countries that aren't japan.

 

The japanese seem to try really hard to make no one listen to their music. I know it's the country where they still use Fax, but pls japan 2014 already

 

I thought the Japanese people still had the mentality to not steal music otherwise bad karma. So it just come down to whether or not people like an artist's music enough to buy them and that is enough to keep the old way of marketing.

[nekkichi 6043]

I just wonder sometimes how can the japanese market(not only the music one) be so outdated.

 

same reason why music market in general is in decline - incompetent/passive management.

music, overall, is a very low-profitable business (as compared to videogames and movies) with drastically smaller budgets and revenue; anyone capable of executing creative business approaches is employed elsewhere else.

I mean, iTunes has been the only successful digital service due to apple pushing their ipod hardware sales (and a small cut off every sold song), and major music publishers have been reluctant to accept it as a sales platform, before the market has sunk to the point they had to merge w. each other to stay in business at all. it was a huge influence, but it did not come as a music business initiative, it was a tech brand branching out.

 

 

Nocturnal Buttlust before they turned VK (as a reference):

 

 

they more or less look like 2006-2008 mucc/post-VK girugamesh & it's funny how going reverse-Dir en grey in terms of looks evolution has flopped in their case.

 

I'm pretty sure Diru would be killing 2014 oricon charts if they invested in full-band facial lifting, a pvc suite or two & a couple wigs for shinya and kyo (I mean, see sukekiyo)

 

bye @ this band

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

Nope, Nocturnal Buttlust was basically your average non-VK metalcore band who (according to Zess, Deith, and other people who are familiar with the genre) actually produced pretty neat stuff. They then decided one day to go VK (and lost a lot of their previous fans because of it, mostly because the material afterwards is said to be really inferior to their non-VK music). I also heard the current VK NB is trying to be either similar to DEG or wants to get to their level, not completely sure about that (someone told me they said that so I wouldn't really put it as a reliable source).

 

No idea why they decided to go full-on VK though. They seem to be appearing over the internet a lot more since going VK (since the VK fanbase is more active on the internet than the non-VK fanbase, or so it seems from my personal experience), but I'm not sure if their fanbase has increased because of it. They lost a lot of their old fans and got visual kei fans in their place, but I don't really think they gained a lot in the end. I'm not sure how popular the metalcore scene was in Japanese indie-music, or how many indie fans liked them before going VK, but I can't really think of a solid reason for a non-VK band to go VK all of a sudden.

 

 

They were scenekids who played terribly generic metalcore that was just straight up shamelessly ripped off for the most part, and I mean almost Grieva level shamelessly ripped off. Half of the fun of listening to their demos is figuring out which Bring me the horizon song they're ripping off.

 

I guess I wouldn't be surprised if they had literally a couple of fans because their stuff is fun for what it is ( generic metalcore to get drunk to ), but there couldn't have been that many since anyone who likes metalcore would have known that they're essentially posers with a cute cover band. My theory was that they realised this themselves and thought visual kei fans were easier to milk than scenekids and thus jumped ship. As far as I know they're doing pretty good nowdays. 

[God 264]

I've honestly only heard one NB release, but I wouldn't spend money on it because I wasn't that into it.  However, personally, I'm on the whole I have no money, my girlfriend and I live with her parents and feeding myself is more of a priority than feeding a musician.  And, as such, pirating doesn't seem that bad when there are people who are the band's target audience in their actual country who probably can and will buy their stuff when they can--this goes for any band, not just NB.  There are certain times where I have extra cash and I buy a CD, but let's be real, it'd be virtually impossible for me to afford every single release I enjoy at this time.  But, threatening to sue your fans?  Kinda shitting where you eat, imo.

[Guest mitsu the indie girl]

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-26626396

 

Japan really needs to catch up with the rest of the world when it comes to music. 

Digital music is what's in nowadays. And there will always be pirates. That won't go away. 

[Tetora 625]

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-26626396

 

Japan really needs to catch up with the rest of the world when it comes to music. 

Digital music is what's in nowadays. And there will always be pirates. That won't go away.

Not sure if I agree with this yet.

Market fluctuations always happen, and Japan is a country with over 90 percent of its music bought physically. Their digital files have not shown considerable.growth, so why should they push the move to a digital platform that is lower quality, against their cultural and artisanal values, and go from selling different versions of a physical good at larger profit margins, for one version of a much cheaper digital version which also erodes their brick and mortar economy.

As for piracy, it is different from a Japanese persepective as outsiders are basically telling them they have to face piracy when piracy is very sparce in their territory. Most of the files I see being grabbed are Japanese products being uploaded by foreigners anyway.

I think it is a complex issue and attaching foreign values or blueprints to it is not the best way to go, especially when Japan's music industry is still a giant, and supports an unbelievable amount of acts in any case.

[Augie1995 325]

I feel Misha Mansoor (Guitarist and founder of Periphery) has the right idea to towards piracy and people that pirate music:

 

"Just for the record, i am not going to waste my time saying that Piracy needs to stop, because it will be just that, a waste of time, it is what it is. 

With that said and established, i really don't think that it is too much to ask that IF you are going to pirate a band's album that you don't overtly rub the fact that you stole their music in their faces. 
Remember guys, merch nets bands more money, but cd sales determine their profile in the music industry, buying either helps ensure that the bands you love can afford to keep making the music that you love."

-Misha Mansoor

[Nyasagi 259]

I haven't seen this topic before, so I'll say what I said on tumblr already.

 

Do what the band wants. If they want only fans who spend money, let them keep only these fans, because they obviously don't care about others. Why would you be the fan they hate (uploader/downloader)? They don't want you... so leave them alone. There are other bands who don't ruin your experience of being a fan. You're here for entertainment and seeing such comments isn't pleasurable. There are many bands who don't complain. I used to buy their CDs when I had money, but now I'm completely broke, so I don't have the right to be their fan anymore. (iTunes is a shit argument, because it's riddiculously expensive compared to stuff here, plus I'm not even sure if any vk bands release music in the Polish iTunes... I honestly doubt it. So iTunes argument is totally shit. I'd rather buy myself food, than waste money on expensive mp3s, it's not an option for people who are poor, definitely! It may be an option if someone buys many CDs and can't buy more, so they grab some iTunes music to support one more band.)

 

I also wonder why they didn't complain about their PV I uploaded on youtube a long time ago (it was my own copy fyi, so I spend $$$ on it lol), it has almost 60k views, lmao. Maybe I should delete it, why would I promote bitchy musicians for free? They don't even want it. But at the same time, people may want to see it, so I'm not sure. I wouldn't like to have my youtube account deleted, though (I had a warning in the past, PSC happened, lol! Do they delete your account after 2 warnings or more?).

 

Btw. I got into this band because of people uploading their songs on tumblr, otherwise I wouldn't even pay attention. If their music didn't appear online, no one would even pay attention to them, or they would just fangirl to the nice photos and nothing else.

[Furik 832]

In NB defense, their releases tend to be available worldwide on all digital music retailers (at least their singles and first mini). And at regular reasonable pricing. But I do agree they need not to lash at fans for downloading. If it wasn't for downloading, they wouldn't be where they are now. I'm like.. 80% sure that 80% of the fans don't reside in Japan.

[Augie1995 325]

I haven't seen this topic before, so I'll say what I said on tumblr already.

 

Do what the band wants. If they want only fans who spend money, let them keep only these fans, because they obviously don't care about others. Why would you be the fan they hate (uploader/downloader)? They don't want you... so leave them alone. There are other bands who don't ruin your experience of being a fan. You're here for entertainment and seeing such comments isn't pleasurable. There are many bands who don't complain. I used to buy their CDs when I had money, but now I'm completely broke, so I don't have the right to be their fan anymore.

 

Hang on, so you're saying that you have no right to be the fan of a band just because you're not buying their CD's?

[sai 868]

^ No, that's not what she's saying. That's what the BAND says according to her interpretation. The band states that people who don't buy are toxic and ruin the band itself, and if you can't buy the CD you have to buy the iTunes version (which is total bullshit imo because there's only a price difference of like 10$ and if you don't have the cash 10$ isn't going to make such a big difference). Which brings me to my next point; I understand digital files are cheaper because they don't have a CD case or a booklet that needs to be printed, but why is the quality of the audio inferior to that one of the CD? Like I am paying less because of the CD case and the booklet but why on earth should I, because I can't afford the physical version, settle with a less quality rip of the same CD. If there's anything you shouldn't touch it's the quality of the audio files. Now iTunes only offers 256kbps, which is bullshit in itself, since if I bought the CD itself I would've been able to get a 320 or even Lossless.

[JukaForever 758]

Do an ABX test between AAC and 320 or any lossless format. The results for many tests like this typically results in failure to recognize a difference. The engineers knows this and all they had to do was compress audio files enough such that it wasn't a burden for memory space on portable players, which I believe was Apple's target audience with the iPod products. The AAC codec is supposed to be one of the more elegant and transparent sounding codecs around, down to 128 even. I don't buy iTunes audio files myself but quality is not the reason for not considering them for purchase.

[Nyasagi 259]

^ No, that's not what she's saying. That's what the BAND says according to her interpretation. The band states that people who don't buy are toxic and ruin the band itself, and if you can't buy the CD you have to buy the iTunes version (which is total bullshit imo because there's only a price difference of like 10$ and if you don't have the cash 10$ isn't going to make such a big difference).

Exactly, that's what I mean. It's the band who's saying that, not me. I understand it well that someone may not be able to buy music (for various reasons) and it's not a reason to treat them like that, but the band thinks different. They could say it in a different way, without offending fans. I like their music and looks, but at this point I just refuse to be their fan anymore. Music is about entertainment. If it makes me upset, it's not what it's supposed to be. If I have money again one day, I will support a band that keeps entertaining me, not the one that makes me upset with their attitude.

 

iTunes prices are shit, really. They just convert the euro price to pln here (in the Polish iTunes) and it costs the same for us, even if we have much less money than people in other countries. The prices should be lower too. 1 euro for a song in mp3 is way too overpriced. It would be cheap for me if it was 1pln (~0,25eur). But still, with no cash, spending any money on music is a bad idea. I can't imagine why would someone pick music, instead of food. I'm sure these musicians wouldn't support another band if they were hungry. No, they would also try to get food, first. iTunes is an option only for a person who has some income, but not enough to buy tons of CDs each month. Suggesting people to use it instead, is a sign of insensitivity. I understand the attitude towards people who say "why buy, when I can download?", who have money, but not all fans are in this position.

[sai 868]

Do an ABX test between AAC and 320 or any lossless format. The results for many tests like this typically results in failure to recognize a difference. The engineers knows this and all they had to do was compress audio files enough such that it wasn't a burden for memory space on portable players, which I believe was Apple's target audience with the iPod products. The AAC codec is supposed to be one of the more elegant and transparent sounding codecs around, down to 128 even. I don't buy iTunes audio files myself but quality is not the reason for not considering them for purchase.

 

I do agree on the fact that 256 AAC is better than 256 mp3, but I can still hear the difference when using my headphones; the difference isn't a lot, but I like to get the full experience while listening to music and for me that equals good gear with high quality audio files. This does not include all iTunes files, but I've heard iTunes purchases that SHOULD be sounding like a 256 AAC sound like someone recorded it with a potato, while a CD rip of that same release in 320 kbps sounded just fine. I've seen this happen multiple times and I'm just in general curious as to where that difference is coming from. But nevermind this, it's a bit off-topic when it comes to the original debate about piracy.

[Augie1995 325]

^ No, that's not what she's saying. That's what the BAND says according to her interpretation. The band states that people who don't buy are toxic and ruin the band itself, and if you can't buy the CD you have to buy the iTunes version (which is total bullshit imo because there's only a price difference of like 10$ and if you don't have the cash 10$ isn't going to make such a big difference). Which brings me to my next point; I understand digital files are cheaper because they don't have a CD case or a booklet that needs to be printed, but why is the quality of the audio inferior to that one of the CD? Like I am paying less because of the CD case and the booklet but why on earth should I, because I can't afford the physical version, settle with a less quality rip of the same CD. If there's anything you shouldn't touch it's the quality of the audio files. Now iTunes only offers 256kbps, which is bullshit in itself, since if I bought the CD itself I would've been able to get a 320 or even Lossless.

Sorry, she was very anonymous as to who "their CDs" was and nowhere did I see something like, "According to them" so i misunderstood

 

I've always said. Mac is a girl's computer, iPhone is a white girl's phone, and iTunes is their mall. iTunes and almost everything apple has always been about reeling in that money and slapping that name brand everywhere, so you can count on iTunes to be the music store with songs that are overpriced beyond belief. An album on the Google Play Store usually costs about 2 dollars cheaper than itunes, sometimes even being only $4.99 because, unlike iTunes, they have common occurences of sales going on. I get that NB feels that since their stuff is on iTunes, piracy on their music should cease to exist, but that's a flawed mentality. Not every country has iTunes, and as Nyasagi is saying, some countries have it worse with the song prices than others. If masa honestly thinks that it's enough, he needs to rethink his approach on this.

[nekkichi 6043]

 

I've always said. Mac is a girl's computer, iPhone is a white girl's phone, and iTunes is their mall. 

 

and bijuaru-kei is single teenage girl's music?