HEADPHONES

[bonsaijodelfisch 328]

proud owners of hifiman he 300 / 400 cans, seeing as the impedance of the 400s is just 35ohms do you think it's possible to drive them without the need of a headphone amplifier?

as my trusty old grados are falling apart now after all those years i've been looking for an over-ears, rather than on-ears alternative, as my ears tend to hurt after several hours of wearing the heads. they should be open design and still possible to be driven by ipod (i don't mind beeing seen as hipster-scum, or as whatever actually) to serves as quality on the road head, but also works as studio-purpose.

i could shoot some practically new he400s for 240euros (about 280 dollar [EDIT: actually 330$ ] i guess?) which is why i'm asking, or do you have any interesting alternatives (preferrably not more expensive, the hifimans are alread way out of my pricerange actually, but the hell...)?

[JukaForever 758]

HE400s are meant to be driven using an iPod. It works well with most genres and is my first recommendation for open backs.

 

I can't recommend any other unless you can say what want out of your headphones. Bright, neutral, bass-heavy or to make it easier, what part of the grado sound do you want to upgrade apart from padding?

[colorful人生 2777]

Well, my Sennheiser HD428s are derping up and I'm looking at purchasing a new pair of over-ear headphones in the coming months (I'm sufficing with my LG Tone + which I really like). 

I've known about the hype surrounding the ATH-M50s (and its newer iteration the ATH-M50x) pertaining to how well regarded it is. I'm leaning towards these, but I'm also interested in the Beyerdynamic DT770 PRO 32 ohms (so I can use them on my Ipod Classic 160 w/o amp) having lurked the Head-Fi forums for a few months. Sennheiser Momentum and AKG K550s are also some headphones that are on my "list".

I've been interested by the specs and design of each of these headphones, and while I understand differences between bassy v. flat and more v. less soundstage I'm no headphone expert. Is there anyone that's had experience with any of these pairs, and if so can you help me narrow my choices down? (Also, if there are other pairs in the 100~300 USD price range that might interest me feel free to suggest them.)

[JukaForever 758]

you may want to describe what you want. Like what about the 428 you liked/ want to improve/ don't want in to hear in your next pair. need details

[colorful人生 2777]

Ah, I knew I forgot about something.

 

Yes, I liked the HD428 headphones at least pertaining to clarity, but I felt like they were kind of lacking in bass (with an EQ it still felt "off") and the feel was a bit cheap/plasticy. I guess I'm looking for something more form-fitting (tighter + more comfy) and kinda bassy except I don't want to be drowning in bass and I want to be able to differentiate the instrumentals. I really like to have clarity in the music I listen to which includes genres like neo-visual kei, trance, post-hardcore, and instrumental.

(OSTs, piano, acoustic guitar, etc.) 

[JukaForever 758]

M50/X: Good choice, if you are going for some thing well balanced. I don't like the fit of these but it may be "form-fitting" for your ears.

 

DT770:  will be the most comfy, whole cups will surround you ear. It will have more treble presence than the M50s though. Some people don't like these for that reason but in my experience, it wasn't too big of a deal listening to metal.

 

Momentums: Not sure which ones you are going for. The on-ear version are not worth it IMO as it is just a typical bass headphone. The circumaural version lacks treble, IMO, not good if you are wanting to hear a sense of clarity.

 

K550: I wouldn't bother with these unless you are using them strictly at home and with minimal head movement ( no head banging). The clamping on these are crap and will fall off easy. Also due to the crap clamp, you lose seal which means you lose bass.

 

The only other recommendation I could recommend is the Mad Dogs by Mr. Speakers, they are well balanced sound wise and are super comfy. Perfect for trance but especially rock/metal.

[Original Saku 1593]

So recently my ear buds that I use on the go finally crapped out on me after a solid two years of use.

So my question is if anyone has any recommendations for some decent in ear earbuds around the 50-60 dollar range? I'm not really worried about them being amazing or anything... I just need something reliable that's gonna last.

[colorful人生 2777]

So recently my ear buds that I use on the go finally crapped out on me after a solid two years of use.

So my question is if anyone has any recommendations for some decent in ear earbuds around the 50-60 dollar range? I'm not really worried about them being amazing or anything... I just need something reliable that's gonna last.

 

Klipsch S4i rugged edition is going for ~$50 http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Image-S4i-Rugged-Headphones/dp/B008PEWM6S

The sound quality on these are the best for their price, and the rugged edition should keep the buds alive for a while.

Only downside is I've gone through both the normal (not rugged) S4 and S4i (ipod ver.) having the right earbud go out each time :/. 

Have you thought of bluetooth IEMs? (They are battery drainers, but I don't have to worry about them rattling in my pockets and whatnot).

 

(There are also brands like Brainwavz and Shure that have items w/ decent reviews pertaining to durability in that price range, but I'm not familiar with their "sound signature" nor could I give a personal account)

[Ito 2438]

K550: I wouldn't bother with these unless you are using them strictly at home and with minimal head movement ( no head banging). The clamping on these are crap and will fall off easy. Also due to the crap clamp, you lose seal which means you lose bass.

While I still wouldn't use mine much for being out and about and their clamping is pretty weak, it actually can easily be fixed. Since the head band is metal, all you need to do is bend it in a bit more and the fit become much tighter (but not tight by any means). I haven't tried the momentums, but the K550 honestly seem like the best choice of headphones if you are often listening in situations where you don't want your neighbor to hear what you are listening to (i.e. work for me - I rarely use them at home).

[JukaForever 758]

But that is true for pretty much all closed headphones. If you want even more isolation, IEMs is the way to go. I have stopped considering using closed headphones on the go. The full sized ones will give the best sound quality but will be too big to store. While the smaller ones will skimp out on the sound but will truly be portable. The best solution I have found are IEMs for portability and sound quality.

[togz 2004]

 (I mean you already don't want to enjoy music to the fullest if you buy beats anyway, lol).

I agree. I'm embarrassed to say i have a pair and I get better quality out of my factory car speakers. 

However, I basically got them for free, so who is going to turn down a free thing when you don't have money to even buy $40 headphones :'D

 

Seriously though... I don't have knowledge of good brands to begin with. 

I usually just get Skull Candy... they have... well used to have really good sound... however they break so easy.

[sai 868]

If you want to know a few good headphones in a lower price category, you can always ask Zess, he's the expert. As you might've seen around the Headphones threads on here I used to have a pair of AKGs that were like $40 (and come in like 5-6 different colors, groovy) and produced really great sound. They lasted about 4 years with heavy usage and they have a really good, balanced sound quality for their price range. The only minus they had was what I'd say the obnoxiously long chord and the fact that they'd start to painfully clamp after a few hours of use. Also it took a while for them to be comfortable on your head. In general I'd rate these headphones a 7/10, though definitely a 9/10 in their own price category.

[Ito 2438]

I just found this article and figured it would be a good thing to drop in here:

 

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/faq-what-are-some-alternatives-to-beats/

[bonsaijodelfisch 328]

some time ago (month or so) i scored a pair of Hifiman HE400s for 210 bucks, which is a fair deal i guess.

they do sound pretty okay, but i'm feeling a little underwhelmed i have to admit, plus i can't really confirm some of the attributes they are supposed to have (dark sounding, great bass response)...

maybe i'll write a review/impression of them later on if anyone's interested and i'll find the motivation.

 

but a quick tl;dr beforehand:

this cable is the most fucking stupid, disgusting and worst thing they could've done to these heads that i can imagine! srsly why bother making headphones portable-compatible, when adding a solid as brick cable that transfers its own sounds like a goddamn sledgehammer right into your ears everytime it moves, which sort of happens when... i don't know... YOU GODDAMN USE THAT SHIT ON THE GO?

 

fun fact, that crappy cable costs a whopping 100 bucks if you buy it alone. good deal

[JukaForever 758]

It is not meant for portability. The fact that it is an open headphone already tells you that you shouldn't walk around with it unless you really want to let other people hear your music. Also since outside noise is entering your headphones, it is going to affect the sound that you hear, you wont be able to have a proper listen to its actual sound quality.

Write a review it would be interesting to read your thoughts on it.

[Zeus 7997]

some time ago (month or so) i scored a pair of Hifiman HE400s for 210 bucks, which is a fair deal i guess.

they do sound pretty okay, but i'm feeling a little underwhelmed i have to admit, plus i can't really confirm some of the attributes they are supposed to have (dark sounding, great bass response)...

maybe i'll write a review/impression of them later on if anyone's interested and i'll find the motivation.

 

but a quick tl;dr beforehand:

this cable is the most fucking stupid, disgusting and worst thing they could've done to these heads that i can imagine! srsly why bother making headphones portable-compatible, when adding a solid as brick cable that transfers its own sounds like a goddamn sledgehammer right into your ears everytime it moves, which sort of happens when... i don't know... YOU GODDAMN USE THAT SHIT ON THE GO?

 

fun fact, that crappy cable costs a whopping 100 bucks if you buy it alone. good deal

Switch the pads. The difference between the pleathers and the velours makes a world of difference. A lot of that comes down to the distance of the drivers from your ears. I believe the velours are less thick (and more comfortable) and it really opens up the headphones a lot. I personally prefer them.

Also, even though the company says that it has low impedance and can be driven with an iPod, it really wants an amp.

[bonsaijodelfisch 328]

It is not meant for portability. The fact that it is an open headphone already tells you that you shouldn't walk around with it unless you really want to let other people hear your music. Also since outside noise is entering your headphones, it is going to affect the sound that you hear, you wont be able to have a proper listen to its actual sound quality.

Write a review it would be interesting to read your thoughts on it.

 

 

well, but built for usage with ipod pretty much implies built for portable devices, hence the act of "porting" it around is included in that. outside noise doesn't really bother me, and i couldn't care less if other people hear my music (well, on a train or at work i'd probably turn it off...).

 

this mentioned problem tho isn't only when walking around, it's pretty much every time you move your head or upper body around, and that is bound to happen at home on your desk/couch/whatever aswell, and the type of noise this makes (in german it is "körperschall" don't know a translation for that, think scratching with your fingernails on the back of the heads FAKE-EDIT: apparently its "structure-born sound") is so extremely irritating and loud, as it is pretty much right in front of your ears (as opposed to outside noise, which isn't as loud and plenty far away).

 

point beeing, well there is no point to these cables. why cover them in solid plastic? i don't see the benefit of that, only plenty of deficit.

 

now besides the cable:

first a few things that surprised me, but aren't nessesarily bad.

 

• First off these are way louder to the outside, than my grado's before that (open aswell) as a matter of fact, they are louder to the outside than they are to the inside. but ok, i wanted open backs, so this was to be expected of sorts, no harm done.

 

• secondly, as they are promoted as being specificaly designed to be also used with an ipod (or similar players) i was hoping for at least a tiny amount of headroom but unfortunately to even be able to actually listen to some not that agressively mastered tracks you have to at least be at 90% volume and even gunned it quite often doesn't reach comfortable listening volume (not even touching anything that could be considered "loud") but okay, these are huge magnetic drivers, it does only say "can" be driven by ipod, so i guess i was expecting a bit too much here.

 

• third for some reason it is getting very hot pretty quick under those cups (with the leather-cushions, i heard it is better with the velour ones, but i don't have those). this is probably a problem with most over the ear headphones, but i don't recollect having that problem with sennheiser HD600s and/or AT M50s (which are closed)

 

now bear in mind, that my previous main heads were the grado sr80 which is, why i'll mainly compare those two, maybe with occasional reference to senn hd600 and AT M50 as i have access to those at a few places, but don't have them here so can only talk out of what i remember about those.

 

 

the grado's are known for having a bit of an overaccentuated bass plus a pretty harsh upper midrange/treble with quite a scary boost at around 4-5khz. 

the HE400s on the other hand are described as a rather dark sounding can with it's most impressive feature being the bass-response and the frequency-graphs i found online would support both of these arguments.

 

 

in terms of the grados i never found the treble really that harsh but in general i'd sign to what is said. listening to the HE400s on the other hand those are not at all dark, quite the contrary. they can be pretty brutal on your ears when you have a fairly "modern" mix that is probably aimed at laptop-speakers and ipod-plugs. the bass on the other hand although beeing there it didn't really feel as alive and flexible as i was hoping it would be. although this maybe due to beeing de-sensitivised by the grados i'm pretty sure the HD600s were more impressive in that aspect.

i have read somewhere, that the HE400s have been revisited a few times already tho, so perhaps my model is a later one than those reviews/graphs?

 

now as i will probably use these heads also for a lot of mixing those points aren't actually that bad, they will perhaps prevent me from doing way too harsh mixes plus not making me too carefull with the low-bass.

 

now on the positive side, besides the somewhat lacking bass i think they sound pretty decent. the added treble, although sometimes harsh, does bring to live some details that otherwise wouldn't be brought upfront this ways and help to sort of distinguish the single parts of a mix better from another.

also because the drivers are a bit further away from your ears (or maybe because of esotheric "oooh its magnetics" reasons, idk) the soundstage/stereo-image is a considerable amount wider than before, which again helps to decipher a mix better and to prevent a general sound-soup.

 

bottom line, as i got those for a pretty okayish price i think they are okay, if portability wasn't that important though i would probably prefer the senn HD600s anytime (i'm not entirely sure if thouse would work with one of those portable amps perhaps?)

 

i'm looking into getting some of these plugs and building a usable cable myself, maybe then i'll like them a bit better (i can then sell the original cable which reduces the overall price to about 100 bucks, now that'd be a steal )

[JukaForever 758]

The HE-400 is not supposed to be dark at all. From my experience and reading others as well, its response is more V-shaped north of neutral. V shaped due to to its uneven presentation of the mids and slightly harsh treble. Also the bass, is not like other headphone's bass. It is acclaimed for its flat bass, this kind of bass doesn't have a wow factor at all unless you are into neutrality then these are boss like. 

 

I disagree the Grado's have an overaccentuated bass, it has a bass hump and it doesn't have low end extension the HE-400 has. Have you tried using a ambient/electronic or something similar type of music with the HE-400? It becomes more apparent then.

 

In terms of the iPod driveability, it is more of a technical thing. It is sensitive enough to be driven by an iPod but it doesn't mean it benefits from being driven by one. Plus the iPod starts to have trouble around 90%, its amp is not very good to drive orthos.

 

Lol goodluck trying to sell those cables, there are plenty of reviews like yours that don't speak too highly of the cable. The cable connector is only found in a hifiman from what I know. Your only market now are those that already have a hifiman and need a replacement cable for cheap. The cable is really the only thing I didn't like when I got my HE-500.

[Zeus 7997]

well, but built for usage with ipod pretty much implies built for portable devices, hence the act of "porting" it around is included in that. outside noise doesn't really bother me, and i couldn't care less if other people hear my music (well, on a train or at work i'd probably turn it off...).

 

this mentioned problem tho isn't only when walking around, it's pretty much every time you move your head or upper body around, and that is bound to happen at home on your desk/couch/whatever aswell, and the type of noise this makes (in german it is "körperschall" don't know a translation for that, think scratching with your fingernails on the back of the heads FAKE-EDIT: apparently its "structure-born sound") is so extremely irritating and loud, as it is pretty much right in front of your ears (as opposed to outside noise, which isn't as loud and plenty far away).

 

point beeing, well there is no point to these cables. why cover them in solid plastic? i don't see the benefit of that, only plenty of deficit.

 

now besides the cable:

first a few things that surprised me, but aren't nessesarily bad.

 

• First off these are way louder to the outside, than my grado's before that (open aswell) as a matter of fact, they are louder to the outside than they are to the inside. but ok, i wanted open backs, so this was to be expected of sorts, no harm done.

 

• secondly, as they are promoted as being specificaly designed to be also used with an ipod (or similar players) i was hoping for at least a tiny amount of headroom but unfortunately to even be able to actually listen to some not that agressively mastered tracks you have to at least be at 90% volume and even gunned it quite often doesn't reach comfortable listening volume (not even touching anything that could be considered "loud") but okay, these are huge magnetic drivers, it does only say "can" be driven by ipod, so i guess i was expecting a bit too much here.

 

• third for some reason it is getting very hot pretty quick under those cups (with the leather-cushions, i heard it is better with the velour ones, but i don't have those). this is probably a problem with most over the ear headphones, but i don't recollect having that problem with sennheiser HD600s and/or AT M50s (which are closed)

 

now bear in mind, that my previous main heads were the grado sr80 which is, why i'll mainly compare those two, maybe with occasional reference to senn hd600 and AT M50 as i have access to those at a few places, but don't have them here so can only talk out of what i remember about those.

 

 

the grado's are known for having a bit of an overaccentuated bass plus a pretty harsh upper midrange/treble with quite a scary boost at around 4-5khz. 

the HE400s on the other hand are described as a rather dark sounding can with it's most impressive feature being the bass-response and the frequency-graphs i found online would support both of these arguments.

 

 

in terms of the grados i never found the treble really that harsh but in general i'd sign to what is said. listening to the HE400s on the other hand those are not at all dark, quite the contrary. they can be pretty brutal on your ears when you have a fairly "modern" mix that is probably aimed at laptop-speakers and ipod-plugs. the bass on the other hand although beeing there it didn't really feel as alive and flexible as i was hoping it would be. although this maybe due to beeing de-sensitivised by the grados i'm pretty sure the HD600s were more impressive in that aspect.

i have read somewhere, that the HE400s have been revisited a few times already tho, so perhaps my model is a later one than those reviews/graphs?

 

now as i will probably use these heads also for a lot of mixing those points aren't actually that bad, they will perhaps prevent me from doing way too harsh mixes plus not making me too carefull with the low-bass.

 

now on the positive side, besides the somewhat lacking bass i think they sound pretty decent. the added treble, although sometimes harsh, does bring to live some details that otherwise wouldn't be brought upfront this ways and help to sort of distinguish the single parts of a mix better from another.

also because the drivers are a bit further away from your ears (or maybe because of esotheric "oooh its magnetics" reasons, idk) the soundstage/stereo-image is a considerable amount wider than before, which again helps to decipher a mix better and to prevent a general sound-soup.

 

bottom line, as i got those for a pretty okayish price i think they are okay, if portability wasn't that important though i would probably prefer the senn HD600s anytime (i'm not entirely sure if thouse would work with one of those portable amps perhaps?)

 

i'm looking into getting some of these plugs and building a usable cable myself, maybe then i'll like them a bit better (i can then sell the original cable which reduces the overall price to about 100 bucks, now that'd be a steal )

 

HD600s would not work with a portable amp at all. The impedance is 300 ohms so you need a dedicated amp to push the Sennheisers to it's true potential.

[JukaForever 758]

Depends on what portable amp is used, an O2 is pretty good.

[bonsaijodelfisch 328]

okay, already found the plugs, they're mini coax and obtainable on ebay for 10$

 
the idea of selling the cable was more of a joke obviously. i know nobody would buy this failure, perhaps i'll keep it as a reserve, or just throw it away.
 
as for the graphs
sr80

 
he400

 
 
and that huge ditch there is right in the octave (2.5-5khz) where the human ear is most sensitive, because it is the speech recognition range. hence the supposedly "dark" tonality
 
the reviews i was referring to were this one
http://www.headfonia.com/mike-and-lieven-on-the-hifiman-he-400/
 
plus one or two others which i can't quite remember but with a similar conclusion
 
if "it's bass is not like any other headphones bass" means it's just not quite there, then i agree with you. trust me, i know what a flat soundsystem has to sound like and this one isn't really lacking that much, i'm merely saying based on all the ortho-esotherics out there i was expecting something more interesting, the he400 sounds sort of stale in the low range. but again, i might have a more recent revision with a different tonality, maybe it's the combination of my presonus preamp with the heads in question or whatever.
 
i've also found different graphs for the he400s with widely differing results, perhaps the build quality is just all over the place for those.

[JukaForever 758]

You can always try to sleeve the cable and see if that would improve the microphonics..also you should have spare connectors that comes with your headphones. HifiMan sort of knows their cable is going to be replaced (it's a rich-audiophile thing). They are also encouraging of the DIY community which is why the included spare connectors. I might be wrong, I didn't buy the HE-400s but connectors definitely did come with my he-500s

 

Dark involves the area around 10kHz. If that is considerably lower than than the response on 1kHz, then it is dark (LCD-2). And if it is really high, it can be harsh which grado's are typically described as. You can have a suck out in the 2-8 kHz region but still sound trebley like the UM3X, which I use. I am not sure where the ear is most sensitive though, I thought it is in 1-2.5 kHz *shrugs*

 

 

I suggest you stay away from headfonia, they add an extreme amount fluff in their reviews. They are great for product introductions but terrible for sound impressions.

 

Also, the reason the graphs vary from one source to another is because they don't all use the same method to measure their headphones. There isn't a standard way to measure headphones yet.

[bonsaijodelfisch 328]

yeah, it's problem in general with online reviews and vague terms of describing sound i guess, what is "dark" to one might be sth different to another. combined with questionable graph-measuring and interpretation of those and the confusion is perfect

all i'm saying is, they're not quite what i expected them to be, and not as much of a step up from the grados as i hoped, plus they have a idiotic, but also expensive monstrosity of a cable.

i'll try soldering a new cable and find some velour-cushions then i'll probably be fine

 

EDIT: no extra connectors included with the 400s, probably for pricing reasons...

 

...I am not sure where the ear is most sensitive though, I thought it is in 1-2.5 kHz *shrugs*...

 

fun fact, that differs on what is your mother-language. i don't know the exact numbers, but for example the sensitivity range for french-speakers is considerably lower than for germans. the octave of english and japanese is the highest iirc (even with a difference between british and american...), this is why masters from some countries have a tendency to sound more in this direction, while others sound more in another. this is also a reason, why there sometimes have been different masters of the same album for different countries.

[Tetora 625]

 

 

Just got the Shure SE315.

 

I have been trying out different pairs this week, because my Sony XBA-4 and Ex90 are both broken (and warrantied out).

 

Most shops around here don`t have enough Sony or AudioTechnica which I like, so I was trying all the other brands and not liking any.

Today I tried a different shop, and tried their BeyerDynamic`s (didn`t like the sound), and some others. Most were too bass heavy or didn`t balance what I wanted, or didn`t kick in enough. Others had that far-away in a box type sound (real technical descriptions, I know).

 

The guy gave me the SE315 to try, since I prefer the multiple driver sound which these are designed to go along with, and was actually amazed that I liked the sound; these headphones are so fresh!

I was still on the fence since I usually only buy certain brands, but he gave me a $150 flat-out price, and they usually go for $250-300 in Canada, so I decided to buy them.

 

Sound Details:

 

They are much more flat and even to my ears, not too much bass, and they respond very nicely to things that `kick-in` in

Rock songs, like drops and so-forth. They also balance dense songs well, as well as walls of sound, so it suits Rock music.

 

I tested them on a few things, including:

 

SuG BLACK album:

 

Tested them to see if they can capture the sound as well as the pairs I had been using until recently. They did very well, I particularly tested them on MISSING, since it has a dense intro and there are some sounds that are hard to hear or balance on many headphones (for example the screaming in the right ear that peaks at 17 seconds in).

 

Girugamesh INCOMPLETE:

 

I use this to test how well sharper sounds held up, on many headphones I find this track (and album) sounds way too rough and the sound gets lost if there is no timbre. I also like to test how well it responds when the song kicks in during the intro, and the middle of the song. If I can`t really feel the power when it kicks in I wont like the headphone.

 

DIV SECRET album:

 

Used it to test how the rich vocals sound. It produced them very well but I started to notice here that the percussion sounds kind of annoy me if I pay attention.

 

External Details:

 

They are the style I prefer for in-ear, which is a huge body (the bigger the better) especially since it fits into your ear and blocks sound very well.

 

The wires are the kind that go behind your ears, which I always find a little annoying but if they help the headphone stay in when I ride my bike or whatever, then I will appreciate them.

 

It is plastic and would probably break easily, but it fits into the ear and doesn`t stick out so I think they will be protected.

 

The cables detach from the body by a twist-and-turn technique which seems secure. They are pretty thick without being over-kill.

 

The case is fugly and cheap though. I have a million cases so no big-deal for me, but I think they should provide something better for a semi-expensive model.

 

Summary:

 

More even and balanced sound than usual, great isolation (for me), and great sound for Rock music.

I still prefer the Sony XBA line, but if you can get a good price, and like the sound, these are worth it.

 

Early review and they should `warm-up`and sound even better, but for now, at $150:

 

[Ito 2438]

Finally got my AKG K7XX's. Man, open cans are such a different experience and for the most part I am really enjoying it. They leak less sound than I thought they would and I can use them at work just fine. Honestly, they don't sound as expansive as I thought they would, but that is perhaps because I am coming off of AKG K550's, which have surprisingly robust soundstage for a closed can. The only problem I have at the moment is the bass doesn't feel all the detailed, but I think it might because they might need some better amplification than what I am driving them with.

 

More info to come as I spend more time with them.