Rahzel

Perhaps we could move the discussion about ghostwriting to this thread. Recently I've been watching the topic pop up very often, so maybe many of you guys would like to talk about it.
 
Maybe we could start by each one making up a list of the artists or songs or whatever stuff you consider useful to explain to somebody how ghostwritten music looks like and how not-ghostwritten music differentiates from it.
 
In my case, I think I caught a nice example while yesterday looking up for old classic I've never had the chance to try. It was the case for baroque. The contrast between their A-sides before disbanding and after their comeback screams idolization so loud that I couldn't believe my ears.
 
 
 
 
One doesn't need critical music-listening skills to appreciate, in one hand, in the pre-come-back songs, the experimental nature of the trashy and psychedelic arrengments in every song (and what amazes me the most is that these songs, as A-sides, where intended to serve for promotional, commercial, issues!); and in the other hand, the almost complete submission of every musical arrange, and even their looks, to a very well-known, standarized, Johnny'sesque aesthetic, in order to appeal to the recent younger fandom. The differences are so abysmal, and kinda scary, imo... from early century neo-Tokyo punks, to creamy-sweaty-ribbon-shotacon manga characters...
 
Anyway, and don't willing to enter into much musical details, further than what can be clearly seen in the example above, I think an indication of not-ghostwritten could be the lack of imitation of a song style as a whole. Let's say, a not-ghostwritten song would be one that, although you could clearly identify well-known music trends in it (a punk sound, a nu metal sound, etc.), or even previously famous artists signature arrangments (a Sugizoesque kind of solo, etc.), still sounds fresh while displaying said features in a way that you definitely know it wasn't heard/seen before. Inspiration is always there, nobody creates something from nothingness itself, but that doesn't mean you can't make your own version of it and through that create something unique.
 
Here are some songs that I returned to after a long time not listening to them. After being triggered with the whole baroque thing, I started to look up for '01~'05 releases, and hell... say what we know, VK was always about dragging otaku girls into fandom while displaying androgynous looks, so it always had a commercial approach inherent to it, and also bandomen were all chinpira prostitutes who knowed little about playing actual music, blabla... all of that is true to an extent, but those facts shouldn't deny that there actually was people trying to express themselves in their own way, even if the results where amateur and unpolished, and even if they signed a major contract and started to make their sound and appearance more appealing to mainstream...
 
 

1) Not like there's proof in VK, but the speed at which some bands pump out releases and the repetition/overuse of riffs and other elements can be a sign of ghostwriting. Also, when you see kids in the scene who aren't that good playing on stage yet are credited for what they play makes me wonder if they really did write it.
 
2) I think the whole scene is idol kei now. The way bands are put together, managed and marketed is very idol-ish. I'd say VK bands that are less "idol" would be those who put out releases less often, don't focus their sales on cheki and spend more time touring than doing fan-meet events.
 
3) When was the first instore? Not sure when VK evolved into what it is today, but I'm sure it was a while ago.
 
4) What is good music? I think there is good music and bad music in VK, just like in any other genre. And personal enjoyment does not atone for quality. I may not enjoy Morrie, Sukekiyo or Kiyoharu's works, but it is undeniably good music. Whereas I may like a lot of indie artists I consider to be musically mediocre. All in all, if I didn't enjoy VK I wouldn't be here.
 
5) VK does not rely that heavily on the music genre to survive. As long as there's scantly dressed pretty men wooing teen fans into spending their yen, the "well-being" of the scene is preserved. As overseas fans, we focus mainly on the music, because it is really all we can focus on, out of all VK has to offer as a scene. In Japan it is slightly different. You could enjoy the social experience, the fan events, the fashionable aspect, idk.
 
6) Because I have shitty music taste? LOL. I can't remember how I even got so hooked on this scene. It gives me versatility in a way many western rock artists don't. Bands don't always stick to a genre and blend a lot of styles to find their own. I don't know much about music theory but I know Japan uses a distinct... scale? for writing their music and I find it pleasant to my ears. I also tend to focus  a lot on bass and vocals. For the first, I've found more interesting bass-lines in Japan than overseas, where it tends to be a filler instrument. And for the latter... Have you seen those "sounds just like Ruki" comments on various YouTube videos? Well, they do, because Japanese men tend to have a similar vocal range that just happens to tickle my fancy. There's also the thing that with Japanese I can easily ignore corny lyrics because I simply do not fully understand them. I don't look them up either, I can live without knowing if I'm being insulted.
I come from the pop/rock scene, never really went through a western punk/metal phase in my teens year. I grew on 80's rock and 90's pop and I got used to catchy sounds accompanied by guitars, and it's what I look for in VK; poppy choruses with clean vocals and harsh instrumentals + lyrics I don't have to feel embarrassed about. Something that western metal and pop often fail to give me. The visuals aren't really that important to me, since I never watch PVs, but the androgynous beauty pleases me a lot when I do want to watch it tbh. As a big plus, I greatly enjoy the whole VK culture in Japan. I gotta say I love going to a small gig without being pushed around by huge dudes or drowning in the stench of weed and going to instore events and such.

Thought this could be amusing. Feel free to only limit it to albums-only or singles-only if a band's discography would be too large otherwise, or even just limit it to trying to describe the band itself as poorly as possible.
 
I'll start:
1. castlevania: harmony of dissonance
2. castlevania 
3. castlevania bloodlines
4. castlevania symphony of the night
 

Lol to be honest I'm beginning to feel we have a discussion like this here monthly, only with a few different words maybe
 
To answer the beginning question well obvious... VK bands often don't last more than 2 or 3 years, so yeah it's not like you can just go back after years and your old fav is still kicking. There is going to be at least a drummer in jail for doing drugs or fighting in a bar or hospitalized or something lol.
Which brings us to it: VK is, well, usually not very gentlemanly. It's not the kind of culture you'd want to show your (japanese) kids or anything, so it's prone to not being very popular in general I guess ; and whenever it did get popular, that was because a few bands and bandomen took upon themselves to spread the word even worldwidely (which is a lot of work in itself and not one many bandomen would be up for honestly) and then they started appearing in variety shows and whatnot, which is ... what kpop stars do every single day. They wake up to plastic surgery, handcreams (trust me those feel marshmallow-y),  learning english (which in itself is a bit easier for Koreans I feel due to sounds and letters ...), global marketing strategies, perfect waifu/husbando image tm and variety shows with groups they are (not so) buddy-buddy with. It's just, well, a lot of marketing. Besides, k-pop sounds all the same which is positive for it as a "culture", while calling vk a "genre" means lumping X Japan and Purple Stone in the same box. And of course, well, not everyone who likes one would like the other.
 
Now on a more personal level I have never been a "typical visual kei fan" , as I never liked bands such as Malice Mizer / X Japan / Dir en Grey / old L'arc en Ciel  / the Gazette / (insert here any ~cool~ popular vk bands), I just liked some bands I heard in anime first (particularly Nightmare but also the occasional SID/PIERROT/MUCC/abingbon boys school ...?) OR knew through friends who liked "bigger" bands and acts, (such as alice nine/Miyavi idk)  which is how I first knew about visual kei while never being a "typical fan". And I guess many weeb kids are/were on the same boat lol which is why there is a lot of "turnover" ; it's not like they can go on gigs with a lot of bands so they can get to know other bands and buy cheki and live-exclusive albums and merch or anything, so yeah once their fav bands are gone (no matter how big they are/were,) they're done with it. Because, again, there is no "global marketing strategy" unlike, say, k-pop, so less accessible materials = you tend to be less obsessed about it and/or know less bands = more turnover as there is nothing to take that place (and, again, saying "if you like X Japan you may like Purple Stone lol" is ... not a thing. ) it requires a lot more effort in a sense so, unless you're reeeeeally obsessed with the whole cultural aspect of it (which is... very localized anyway,) you're prone to getting over it - and, well, the rebellious emo phase (fortunately) doesn't last forever for everyone I guess. (not saying everyone who likes vk is ANGSTY but yeah it takes an appreciation of an alternative aesthetic which is usually ... something you like when you are young ??). As for me I am definitely in that boat - I don't think I have ever considered myself a vk fan though if you ask me I'll say "oh yeah, I know it, it's ok", I've probably heard most popular bands at least and I was definitely a Nightmare fan by most standards for quite some time
 
In short, I guess I liked vk for the rock but also for the hand elephants and Mana variety shows, in which sense kpop definitely pales in comparision but I'll still take kpop over RAHFJSNDNNRRK *guttural noises* anyway. 🙊
 
Edit: It's worth mentioning I got back to vk because I was bored&unemployed and my kpop faves made a MV with Golden Bomber Jun as I translated Japanese videos for the fanbase, so of course I knew everything that was going on and I was rather surprised vk in itself was Still A Thing. So in my case that was The Call Of The Bandomen and not the other way around ironically

Talking about SHAZNA/Izam - there's also this rather unfortunately titled endorsement:

キザノホマレ from Animal Crossing / どうぶつの森 In the English version he talks about "a band" and in the OG AC he's a 'jock' type despite the make up and skirt lol. But in JP version he talks about his kaisan'd band and subtlety flirts with the player & animals like a proper bandman. I mean it is a Japanese property so the ref isn't completely surprising, but I still didn't expect being called 'my sweet/darling beloved' by an animal in a nintendo game. (Or the implication that there's some seedy romance drama going on in town between multiple animals with him lol)

when Yoshiki was in British news because his scarf landed on the queen's shoulder during some horse racing event. half the publications called him "scarf lady"

If we're gonna do video games, Shin Megami Tensei is well known for using japanese youth subculture as an inspiration and Persona 2 (1999 and 2000) happens to be pretty heavy on the VK. One character is a struggling bandman and another one is a gothy girl who sports a classic kotekote era hairstyle (I think Nao from La'mule is most famous for wearing it but you see it on a lot of other guys as well) :
 

 
Bonus video :
 

A new band, called Də'mëŋ†ɪa Ṃa:liϧ, formed recently consisting of vocalist 「XXX」 and keytarist 『xxx』.
While there isn't much known about them at this point, they did announce their first release.
 
PROLOGUE~Shuukyouteki na Mousou~ (プロローグ~宗教的な妄想~) is set to be released on April 16th.
 

 
Both the design of the cover and its medium (demotape) suggest
that we can expect an interesting addition to the new wave of bands that bring back the spirit of 90s visual kei.
 
More info: https://vk.gy/blog/a-new-mysterious-band-forms-dementia-malis/

Now, cursed images are a hobby of mine. I collect them as best I can, and my favourite kind are without a doubt, cursed VK images. I even made a compilation video of all the ones I collected:
There's just so many! So I figured, how about you? I was inspired to make a topic for cursed VK images after all the lovely posts we had back in the random thoughts thread. Do you have some cursed images in your stockpile to share? If so, I'd love to see them!
I'll start off with the one I posted in the random thoughts thread a few days ago, as it's so cursed that I'm sad that it missed the video

I also found some more of this cursed pairing just now!


^Now that's spicy

I agree, particularly with "They can't just call a mediocre album a mediocre album, or even acknowledge a bad song/album because of hype. It's all got to be amazing, flawless, like the second coming of Christ."
Becuase it is what it is. It's a fad, a cultural phenomenon, something that's so good right now! even if it actually sucks, is actually losing its shine etc. because now international media has appropriated it to the point of making it seem like a political agenda its original creators never reeeally intended it to be, y'know. And, well, my point being exactly that they did intend it to be a political agenda... a lot. Just probably not to this degree.
 
But - it's somewhat akin to what anime was in the past, right? The whole "anime aesthetic", "anime game" (which was literally just: japanese game with cartoon graphics ... lol ; ; ; ), "anime whatever" of the 90s and maybe even early 2000s. And it was cool around the world, and then suddenly it wasn't cool anymore. Before that, the hippies were cool, etc. Think of whatever cultural fad to illustrate my perspective.    
 
So, I guess what I was trying to argue before is exactly that - sure VK was never terribly mainstream, but everyone who's like 30 now probably lived an era when it was, at the very least ... cool. In a, y'know, oh, ok, these kids with the colorful Final Fantasy hairstyles are actually creating something artistically new. Until, again, it wasn't anymore. And before not being cool anymore of course it was appropriated in many ways - it's not really a coincidence that every bandomen from back then suddenly became ~*multicultural and global*~. Anyway... So it's not really a coincidence that some elements are present in both because, well, pop culture/media/etc works like that. Not to say "nothing is new" but of course some trends will be literal emulations or polar opposites of others. Making these "others"' presence undeniable.   
 

Does anyone with an invisible condition have to spend a ridiculous amount of time convincing people they do have said condition and aren’t faking it? It’s
exhausting. 

Maybe a reason why people shifted from VK to kpop is the fact that the ‚VK‘ idols have always been seeming to be unapproachable. Like, you see a member and think what they do is cool but you rarely find interviews or anything. That always frustrated me, never knowing a little bit of the person behind the music.
I remember with Kpop laughing my ass off during reality shows, a lot of fangirl material asforth. Also, a great translation community on the net - anything gets translated. On the contrary, Dir en grey and the Gazette being the probably biggest VK-band, and still a lot of interviews on the net without translations. 
And yea, maybe the golden era of VK is over. Both musically and visually. I feel all the new bands lack originality in that sense. 
 

As for me, it is not about change of taste, but that the scene does not offer anything new and exciting anymore.
All these newer, younger bands done the same tricks and sounds that bands from my generation did already. It really feel that they do not innovate. So I seldom to take likings to newer acts, unless their music is really, really took my interest. I am still in this scene because of those late 90s and the 2000s VK bands that we are all know and love. At least those that's left, since so many already disbanded now, and largely why my last fm stats for VK msuic are very minimal in the last few years.
 
Some people would drift apart when they have something or someone new. But I never been that person, and never will. When I got into something or someone new, I will took liking of it, while keep my older ones along as well. 

As you get older you change and so do the things you like. Once upon a time I used to watch harem/ecchi anime and listen to the gazette after. Now there’s one of those things I wouldn’t touch if my life depended on it. So I think it’s only normal for people to let go of something they got into as teenagers. I also think that being unwillingly to explore other music will make you go off vk faster.
 
In my later teen years I went off vk completely for about a year or two, I was just too busy to be involved with the scene, even after I came back to it I still had a year where I went in a deep search to expand my musical horizons. Now things have levelled off and I can move between western music, pop, Kpop, Vkei and everything in between. Another factor that makes people drop off: this scene requires time investment and the older you get the harder it is to make that investment. As your favourite bands die, the only way to keep interest going is by discovering new things in the scene, be it older bands you didn’t know or newer bands. Don’t forget, nowadays the average teen’s attention span is less than a goldfish’s so they’ll move to the next thing that makes them horny without a second thought and considering kpop merch is not only cheaper, but constantly being pumped out and more readily available than vk chekkis will ever be I can’t blame people for not sticking with vk for long. Kpop community is more active and widespread which does a lot to stimulate the senses.
 
What keeps me coming back to vkei is the angst and artistic side of it all. You just can’t find it anywhere else, even if it is fake lol. I don’t know if I’ll ever let go of it completely, like Dispo said I’m in it for the long haul.
 
 

I didn't expect to ever like a Demi song and the visuals are just a huge bonus! I miss the old internet :')

Just listening to the quintessential vk song of the era of Yaoi Paddles today
 
 
My tastes just keep getting worse and worse lmaooo

Just listening to the quintessential vk song of the era of Yaoi Paddles today
 
 
My tastes just keep getting worse and worse lmaooo

Like I honestly think the ONE good thing 2020 brought me aside from staying home longer (which was overcompensated by shit .......) was having my fav teen pop singer from my teenage years go full on y2k myspace emo like I've always wanted 😙😋😍🥰🤩😜😛
 
 
Everything else was just dumb mistakes bad health dollar on the high and live concerts on the low tho
(On a less "ew what have I jus listened to", things like this isn't why I like her... this is actually.)

Just listening to the quintessential vk song of the era of Yaoi Paddles today
 
 
My tastes just keep getting worse and worse lmaooo

Someone who knows better about kpop imitating black culture should tackle this but yeah, it's a thing. Thankfully a thing that my Shinee boys don't do. Hopefully? 
 
I live in south east asia so kpop is unavoidable for me. I can only speak for myself, but what I noticed around me was that the people who first got into kpop weren't into jpop.
 
They were 'mainstream normies' so to speak, so 2000s kpop being more accessible from the start meant that they had much greater exposure to kpop than jpop in the first place. My general impression back then was that kpop was seen as 'fresher',  'more polished' than jpop which has been around for a few years already. So there was the general public getting into kpop + jpop/vk/etc fans getting into kpop but little to no fans gained for jpop/vk. So that was that. Though it was obvious that kpop was taking trend cues from japanese music, like how early dbsk had visual kei hairstyles lol. But they quickly found a style that simply appealed more to the foreign public than jpop/vk did imo. I mean, they had government backing, so....
 
What I dislike about kpop is how they pigeonhole members, like oh guy 1 is the singer, guy 2 is rap and so on. It's weird how they introduce themselves explicitly like that. Of course they have their own strengths but why do that?
 
I don't know about 2010 kpop but I think the surviving groups and artists from 2000s kpop are still quite good and are beginning to have their own musical input.
 
I specifically like songs (partially) written and composed by Donghae of Suju for some reason:
 
Also key's solo albums are prime kpop goodness. 
 
Odd eye best kpop album of the decade tbh, bts can't compare
 
 
 

To be perfectly honest K-Pop music or industry in general isnt my cup of tea. But neither I hate them.
 
My only problem is the fans. Some of them really goes overboard or too much. Hell even one of my friends said she would be super happy just to kiss her idol's armpit. Like wtf, seriously?
 
I mean, based on what I learn, most of them only care about the visual a.k.a handsome or pretty idols. Which is FOR ME is kinda weird, because music isnt for their ears anymore, but eyes.
 
Note: I know not all of the fans behave like that, but I swear some of my friends are.

I'll just leave this here, fresh from my country today:
 
https://www.asiaone.com/digital/k-pop-fans-kick-straitstimesisoverparty-twitter-report-their-idols-they-didnt?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2g2zwRNI9qxk3WmaG10OFH5ogjgc9dmgFkS2rPaTQ96LAxbInRdfv6AV8#Echobox=1589956772
 
Basically the newspaper published a less than flattering article on some kpop stars and the fans are trying to boycott the newspapers and get the writer fired.

Just listening to the quintessential vk song of the era of Yaoi Paddles today
 
 
My tastes just keep getting worse and worse lmaooo