Piracy is still a necessary evil

[BrenGun 2261]

 

A month ago Zeus started a topic about piracy,
Many of you said: piracy is still a necessary evil,

 

Also Zeus asked to not to share "The GazettE new album, "NINTH" for at  least  2 weeks here on MH,  Which will be release on June 13. <- (if you own a news website, please also highlight it somehow, so that we might can notice if something will happen).

When I first did read it, I thought, yes good idea!  However a few days ago I thought, huh wait a second, 2018-06-13?!!! JUNE!!

That's still a LONG LONG WAIT. 

So in the meanwhile, we could think about it a little bit more isn't?
It's 2018 now and not 2000 anymore. Also, Japanese music is much easier to buy than 10 years ago. 
 

So let's go back to:

Piracy is still a necessary evil.

But;
Are you willing to buy a release if nobody would share the release (fast)?

 

I'm not talking about the difficult to get releases.

I'm only talking about the  NATIONAL WIDE releases which are easy to buy at CDJapan / iTunes  / Spotify

 

Which lead me to 2 other questions;

___________

 

01: 

What should we do about releases which are available international on iTunes.
Keeping sharing it without any pardon or shall we stop or not share every release?

 

I take Starwave Releases as example. 99% of all releases are also available international on iTunes and even on CDbaby.
That always for only €$0,99 a song. Which make every release cheap to purchase yourself. 

__________

 

02:

What should be do about the releases which are FREE to listen on spotify.
Because why would we share it without any pardon, if people can listen it for free?

Maybe not in the highest quality however there is no excuse that someone cannot listen to it. 

 

_______________________________

 

03: Bonus question

A Musician should release their music for free. 

Since 99%~100% of a musician music get shared for free without a pardon, it's a bit of useless to not release it for free isn't?

Or would it be cool if an musician would sell it but that you can name your own price?

______________________________

 

Own thoughts;

 

Of course I am only talking about releases which ARE easy to buy. 
Live limited releases,  I agree with Piracy is a necessary will. 

 

But if you are a bands/label close friend, business partner or diehard fan, and you share their music  it is 100% not having any respect for the artist/Label.
Whenever it's a live limited release or not. 

 

I also think it's a bit of a dick-move to share releases which are free to listen on Spotify. Since you also can rip them off Spotify, of course you won't have 320kbps unless you subscribed to Spotify. But for myself, I'm happy to support an artist by listen to their releases on Spotify. 

 

As for iTunes releases,

If I really do like the artist I buy their music on iTunes and then I don't share it to the rest of the world. 
It's easy to get, it's cheap to buy, so why sharing to everybody even to those who also have the money to purchase it?  

Also I wouldn't care if an iTunes release never would be shared. Since those band I don't care enough for, I would also not (really) miss to listen to their music. (^o^)

 

For releases which are not available at itunes/spotify.
Somehow I care lesser for music, So If I won't like an artist very much I could wait endlessly even if it would mean that I would never be able to listen to it. 
However if I really like an artist, I would already have pre-ordered it, or I would buy whenever I would have the money to purchase it. 

 

Of course not EVERYBODY has money to buy music. For those who really don't have money to buy "digitally".
And for those who simply not want to purchase music, for whatever reason;

Please ask yourself; 

How fast would I buy a release legal, if nobody would share it illegal. 

 

Also, does your own AGE matter in the way of thinking about this matter? 

I turn 30 years later this year. I grew up inside a  world without internet and when internet was easy available for everybody, nobody did complain about piracy yet, there was software to download and share music. music which was only 128kbps. The video clips resolution was small. Then the time came that bands and music labels started to complain about piracy. Also back in the days, I didn't had the idea of "downloading illegal is bad". But after reading and seeing how much energy a band put inside a release. I think it's not good to download EVERYTHING illegal. But I think that Musicians also should share sometimes something for free and focus to gain money with "other stuff" than just getting profit from selling "CD".  However I didn't really care about a Musician bread until about an age of 25? . But I do buy music of Japanese artist since I'm 18 years.  Back then I also wanted to have every damn release of every damn Japanese artist. Now I often think, why did I download this crap? or why did I bought this crap? this year I even stopped to piracy music of bands I would never support myself. It's not of not having the money to support an artist, it's a mind set of not really caring anymore to have the need to have everything legal and or illegal. If I can't listen to a release, then so what? If it's still available and I really want it, I would purchase it, otherwise I won't miss it.    

 

Still I do think, something need to change in the piracy world. 
You never can ban out piracy, but maybe things can be changed somehow?
But I guess we still need to discover and find out, what the "something" is. 

 

Anyway;
Please answer the questions with a good will and honest for the MH staff.  
Any troll comment will be reported and deleted. 

 

And remember, please share the idea of:  to not share [The GazettE new album, "NINTH", on 2018-06-13]  for at least 2 weeks. 

 

The poll will stay active for 2 weeks.

 
Thanks for reading.

 

 

EDIT:

It is not about, "piracy could kill a band". 

Let's not forget that 99% of the bands who disband soon, only sold live stuff or didn't even release a thing. Scandals, member changes, a member runs away, fights between members,  are often also reasons of a band disbandment. 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by BrenGun

[Mamo 1172]

Smh we just had this topic.

[BrenGun 2261]

1 hour ago, Mamo said:

Smh we just had this topic.

Not really;

It's not about piracy would kill a band.  

It's about;

Would it be okay for you to wait longer for a release?

Would you mind if you had to purchase itunes releases to be able to listen to a release?

Would you mind if MH wouldn't allow releases which are already for free to listen on spotify?

 

Also this poll is only for the "new" EASY to get releases;  CDJapan, itunes and spotify only. 

 

 

 

 

And it's a reminder of MH idea to not share the upcoming release of THE GAZETTE  for 2 weeks. 

 

 

[tetsu_sama69 1119]

So then it's just a re-imaging of the same topic.

[BrenGun 2261]

2 hours ago, tetsu_sama69 said:

So then it's just a re-imaging of the same topic.

kind off, just with another questions.

the other topic was, do you need piracy.

 

people said, yeah we need it!.

but if you ask, how long can you wait, would you wait, what do you feel about itunes/ spotify downloads,

the answers pretty much are surprising.

 

the poll is very much going 2 ways, but that's more because to have you choose whenever a no or a yes, without going again inside an (endless) opionion discussion. 

 

Also a yes/no option, is maybe not that bad. 

 

anyhow, 

if you think there should have been an 'other option box' because you think the answers are too going one way, be free to comment why you voted a yes or no, and why there is your "But..." 

 

I guess there is a "But" to the first question?, If it was (really) your favorite artist you would buy it right?

If it is not, you won't care much, isn't?

Be free to write down your opinion

 

But, I believe many of you already wrote many 「open」 answers in Zeus topic right?

 

 

anyway, we still can discuss it somehow or different if the poll got closed down.

 

Just vote your thing, whenever you think it's again the same thing. 

If you need an open option to a question, be free to comment why～ 

 

But keep in mind it's not to point you that downloading is bad. ← those discussions we already had.

 

 

[tetsu_sama69 1119]

I feel like people don't need a reminder to not post the GazettE album as requested. Most people are pretty respectful when it comes to special requests such as this. I mean but hey if you didn't get the reasoning you wanted out of the previous subject you can enjoy your same post 2.0 whichever makes you feel better.

[BrenGun 2261]

4 hours ago, tetsu_sama69 said:

I feel like people don't need a reminder to not post the GazettE album as requested. Most people are pretty respectful when it comes to special requests such as this. I mean but hey if you didn't get the reasoning you wanted out of the previous subject you can enjoy your same post 2.0 whichever makes you feel better.

 

The reasons where all over and still to vague to know if people really want to piracy everything or if there are also kind of releases such as spotify and itunes which could be delayed or not to be shared for over a year or more.

 

the poll already says, that people wouldn't mind if spotify releases won't appear as download.

 

 

As for gazette, it's a big Major band. 

And it's not wrong to remind people to not to share.

because it also would highlight if people are willing to wait, or if they even would buy it in advance because they don't wanna wait.

yet it's a long wait until the end of June.

 

 

 

the results can be even interesting for labels and bands.

 

Just go for "no" if you disagree with everything.

 

Amen.

 

 

[nekkichi 6043]

https://www.mediaplaynews.com/riaa-physical-record-sales-topped-digital-downloads-in-2017/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/03/digital-streaming-behind-biggest-rise-in-uk-music-sales-for-two-decades

 

there're numerous reasons VK acts won't get signed and distributed through major western labels, and they are slowly catching up with the streaming trend, but this scene never relied on an equation of 1 fan purchasing 1 CD per release,

 

the moment we stop downloading shit for free you and your kind will jump ahead screaming it's imperative for the REAL fans to purchase checki and merch, covering the overseas purchasing fees.

 

are you going to imply that the other outlets in the dying scene (i.e. SHOXX) are also leaving the market due to our lack of support?

 

19 hours ago, BrenGun said:

take Starwave Releases as example. 99% of all releases are also available international on iTunes and even on CDbaby.

ironically starwave produces the cheapest, shittiest, most derivative music/looks in the scene as of now, and I want to see the receipts that bands themselves get the coin from itunes purchases.

 

19 hours ago, BrenGun said:

It is not about, "piracy could kill a band". 

you should consider a social media diet (just a suggestion.)

Edited April 2, 2018 by nekkichi

[BrenGun 2261]

 

That was totally not my point.

 

first of all, I am NOT talking about difficult to get releases. only releases who are easy to buy for everybody.

 

 

I am for sharing music, but I am more wondering how people would react if someday we would stop the sharing or if there would be rules of delaying sharing . which never happens of course.   

The simply question you only had to ask yourself was: "If stuff was a bit more difficult to download for free, would I buy it legal?"

 

but you all are like, that I want that people stop sharing and people stop downloading. I don't want that! 

The wish I have(and maybe some others), is that people wouldn't share digital releases fast without any pardon and witbout any respect to the artist to the internet. 

I am simply wondering IF people had to wait an amount of time:  would they buy or simply would think "fuck it, not going to throw in my money".  

 

That's all,  there is pretty much no need for harsh comments against me as I am the most stupid idiotic human on the world. 

 

Also there are enough bands without a label who sells on itunes and have their music on spotify. musicans who work hard to get their music sold. Who definitely earn my respect.

 

 

These questions where still on my mind and had a good chat with some of you in the chat the other day, which cleared up things which where not yet really clear for me after ZEUS poll.

 

After all I am for sharing. And I do think it helps band to gain fans. 

Still sometimes, I feel of, we could share a bit more slowly. like 2 weeks wait (then most collectors also have it at home(and back in the days it was a common rule in many LJ communities)) 

 

However if overseas people would share lesser (fast), then maybe artist would it make possible to buy it. Often bands don't sell it to overseas people because they know that we will put it online in "99%" of the casses.  (*_*;

Also lot's of Japanese fans don't share music with you, because of that reason.

These days paypal does also exist  in Japan, so bands/labels have no excuse anymore to not sell it overseas.

If they say "no", they simple don't trust you.  ← If they say no, I won't give a shit about them, unless they are super kind.

(even tho, lot's of Japanese people seem to be afraid of paypal or sending stuff overseas for whatever reason) 

 

↑

But whatever,  That's about difficult to get releases.

 

↑

anyhow for easy to get music, I am for sharing music (we can't buy everything),

but I don't always see a reason to share an itunes or spotify release. ← I won't care if nobody would share a spotify release. 

and for cds who don't come in digital version, I buy them whenever I have money, or just never. 

 

Just wanted clear voted answers to some left over questions, since we "never" voted.

 

Also I had a good chat with some of you in the chat, which cleared up a lot.

 

Now, I also can tell clearly to Japanese bands the mind of overseas fans.

 

But sharing music don't break a band. 

an artist own ego does break a band.

 

 

AMEN, it's all clear for me now.

 

 

Anyway, if the poll can hit 25 votes the topic can be closed. Would be amazing.

 

 

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

The "not selling to overseas fans because it will end up online 99% of the time" just seems like rampant xenophobia tbh, and they don't deserve money if that's the case.

[nekkichi 6043]

4 hours ago, BrenGun said:

Now, I also can tell clearly to Japanese bands the mind of overseas fans

dumb sis, I (and most of my clique) have been purchasing legal media (and concert tickets, if we're at it) since ~2004, when the only delivery option was DHL and it was expensive a.f. to ship shizzle alone

 

I lost interest in ~supporting the scene~ almost completely many years ago and buy less than 3 CDs per year on average and I don't care if you're trying to buff your own ego by re-telling no1curr indiefag bandomen some distorted version of western fandom you're trying to invent for whom? for what?

 

literally get a life and get off social media and let band management do their job deciding how and where to sell their products.

 

4 hours ago, BrenGun said:

That was totally not my point.

oh and learn how to make coherent points, or something, for real, before u run amok screaming about muh filesharing gaijin pigguz

Edited April 6, 2018 by nekkichi

[Mamo 1172]

3 minutes ago, nekkichi said:

dumb sis, I (and most of my clique) have been purchasing legal media (and concert tickets, if we're at it) since ~2004, when the only delivery option was DHL and it was expensive a.f. to ship shizzle alone

 

I lost interest in ~supporting the scene~ almost completely many years ago and buy less than 3 CDs per year on average and I don't care if you're trying to buff your own ego by re-telling no1curr indiefag bandomen some distorted version of western fandom you're trying to invent for whom? for what?

 

literally get a life and get off social media and let band management do their job deciding how and where to sell their products.

They need a clap reaction emoji. @nekkichiyou're my god. bow

[saishuu 3220]

38 minutes ago, nekkichi said:

dumb sis, I (and most of my clique) have been purchasing legal media (and concert tickets, if we're at it) since ~2004, when the only delivery option was DHL and it was expensive a.f. to ship shizzle alone

 

I lost interest in ~supporting the scene~ almost completely many years ago and buy less than 3 CDs per year on average and I don't care if you're trying to buff your own ego by re-telling no1curr indiefag bandomen some distorted version of western fandom you're trying to invent for whom? for what?

 

literally get a life and get off social media and let band management do their job deciding how and where to sell their products.

 

oh and learn how to make coherent points, or something, for real, before u run amok screaming about muh filesharing gaijin pigguz

literally print this entire post and make it the new header for the forum

 

also @ DW, you might wanna get this egomania and saviour behavior checked, all you're doing is harming a dying scene and an old community that's always been getting things around since way before you probably knew the internet existed. as much as you want to, you're not gonna control how an entire forum and group thinks and does things. thankfully not everything is or should be tailored to your own specific wishes.

Edited April 6, 2018 by saishuu

[Neurosis 81]

Imposing one's own thoughts on others and trying to "change" things with this type of ego is wrong.

 

Beginning by asking for honest opinions from MH users ... But then the post author writes "Any troll comment will be reported and deleted"

Here the question: What if the user's opinion is different?

 

Each person has a way of life (sometimes very specific xD) With awareness of what he did, does or will do

 

Focusing on this point, I consider that the post of Zeus was enough to make a sampling of opinions. 

Maybe one should use the "disconformity" to continue with their ideals, BUT without 100% of humanity support (Come on, it's a rough and populated world xD)

Now, in my case and I think that in 70% of the fans around the planet we choose to listen to promotional songs (MV, Spot, mp3, whatever) and Yes, of course the free downloads (Oh will crucify me) 

But here is the good thing , despite this as a standard fan of course I buy the songs from iTunes if they are available (I like the quality) and other times I buy the CDs (It does not matter if I have already bought the MP3 / M4A legally, my glamscure addiction)

 

After all, if you really like a band and their work will not stop until you get one or more of their products.

 

Plus1: And its always difficult to get the products from some very tight bands, and when you buy those rare and limited CDs sometimes you don't even buy them from the bands, but they are sold by fans in stores and auctions at very high prices , maybe some artist sell their own CDs on this type of platform, I don't know xD

 

Plus2: In short I think there are fans, good fans and toxic fans.

 

Plus3: Maybe this comment will deleted~

[GreatNorthernVK 183]

Being perfectly honest, choosing not to post the Gazette’s new album won’t affect much.

 

Gazette fans will still pre-order the thing, regardless of download status (unless they’re underage, or broke) People who don’t really care about the Gazette that much won’t have their buying habits altered by a temporary unavailability.

 

Bands that aren’t established *might* be able to sway overseas buying habits if they make an effort, and are willing to try ways to work with a diverse market (ex Vivarush).  But as a whole, the Japanese music industry is more antagonistic than helpful regarding non-Japanese fans. They’ve never counted on our sales. 

[BrenGun 2261]

2 hours ago, Peace Heavy mk II said:

The "not selling to overseas fans because it will end up online 99% of the time" just seems like rampant xenophobia tbh, and they don't deserve money if that's the case.

then lot's of bands don't deserve any money, since many bands get supported via a proxy because they don't sell it directly to overseas fans because of this reason. 

Since its bullshit that they cannot sell to overseas, of course they can. 

If a band act like such douce, they don't get my money via a proxy. 

 

But it happens a lot...

I see often bandman complain about foreingers who share music.

 

even tho, on the otherside they don't (always)really care about us being a fan.

and yet they blame us that they sell (too) less CD. 

While Japanese people ilegal download much much lesser, or not even do it.

 

 

 

[BrenGun 2261]

52 minutes ago, Neurosis said:

Imposing one's own thoughts on others and trying to "change" things with this type of ego is wrong.

 

Beginning by asking for honest opinions from MH users ... But then the post author writes "Any troll comment will be reported and deleted"

Here the question: What if the user's opinion is different?

lol, I don't even ask people to change their opinion, I ask for users (other) opinion. 

Also I have mine and you have yours.

and sometimes you can agree with someones opion even if you didn't share the same opinon before.

 

But I really don't care if people don't agree.  Give your disagree thoughts.

 

 

and with trolling, I mean useless comments like "We had this" or just any offensive rude comments. (which some users are good at here too) 

 

 

[Axius 2019]

I honestly promote sharing toward rare releases. Otherwise its your decision at the end day to care about sharing or not and also to buy or not/support the official band. Also concerts are a thing too as much as people pray for world tours.

Personally i wanna buy as much stuff as i can of one thing before it becomes rare of course when i get the money. This kinda leads off topic to economic stuffs which is kinda a bore. Besides that Ive been in situations where ive known about a band for a while but never really took the time to invest then it became rare [Examples: OZ, Dio distraught overlord etc..] It feels more right in owning a release.

 

Overall my opinion wait for a release you don't want it rushed to have it end up being crap at the end and support the band as much as you can when you can.

[platy 3018]

In summary everyone has their way of supporting a band. 

 

There are smaller bands I like that I know might not get shared online and in that case I often purchase their releases. But I can't ever see myself stopping downloading music illegally. I want to discover new bands and try out stuff and I'm not paying shipping + customs + CD price just to find out if this ~mysterious ~ band is worth it. Will I purchase gazette's NINTH if it isn't shared here? Not really. If it isn't here it'll be somewhere else eventually and I'm in no rush.  I've supported them a lot over the years I've stanned  them and I feel that they no longer need my money as much. 

 

Also I don't think the opinions of 25~ish people is enough to give a good sample of the western vk scene's mindset to a bandoman. Especially since a lot of the fans in MH are the older, more responsible kind of fan that is able to spend and we know that like 60% if not more of the scene are teens that think using a band's picture on their phone counts as legitimate  support, so...