Dir en grey

[Seelentau 884]

My boredom knows no bounds: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTB2aq_hgeFi9JQXTXt2KhZ2_puoqsODOHcHDz-iHOC2d8Hg6PxNIis8jCBPb5HB_DrNYKLHtkFJS_w/pubhtml

Edited January 20, 2018 by Seelentau

[nullmoon 784]

I'd probably show audience KILLER LOOP. It has a bit of everything to be fair; the gloomy tone, vocals that are actually sung, some older/better harsh vocals, some jangly instrumentation...that shit is hard but with purpose (not just being heavy for the sake of it). I think it's pretty accessible for a newcomer too compared to their earlier and later tracks

[Nowhere Girl 189]

1 hour ago, nullmoon said:

I'd probably show audience KILLER LOOP. It has a bit of everything to be fair; the gloomy tone, vocals that are actually sung, some older/better harsh vocals, some jangly instrumentation...that shit is hard but with purpose (not just being heavy for the sake of it). I think it's pretty accessible for a newcomer too compared to their earlier and later tracks

That's a good one. Although I personally love VINUSHKA, it is maybe a bit long for a new listener.

 

OBSCURE would also be a good one, but the video might turn off some.

[EvilHippy 142]

My first DEG songs were Grief and Mushi.
That was enough to like them.

[Pretsy 1343]

13 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

And yet, many still think that DEG's best work is in those first few albums. I would actually argue that they found their voice by MACABRE (the album).

 

As for a song I'd share, that'd be VINUSHKA. It moves from fragile to epic to full hardc0r3 br0074l.

 

Not a fan of Akatsuki, myself. The demo version is fantastic. Album version, not so much.

VINUSHKA is too different from the rest on UROBOROS though, no? As a newcomer song it would make Dir look and sound like a Deathspell Omega/Opeth band to most people, which might not be the case in reality.

 

It's a good song nonetheless.

[Nowhere Girl 189]

32 minutes ago, Alroy said:

VINUSHKA is too different from the rest on UROBOROS though, no? As a newcomer song it would make Dir look and sound like a Deathspell Omega/Opeth band to most people, which might not be the case in reality.

 

It's a good song nonetheless.

Well, you're right, but that's going to be the case with any song. VINUSHKA happens to showcase several different styles, which is what you asked for...

 

Also, DEG has changed quite significantly over the years. There's nothing they're doing now that sounds like JESSICA, for example.

[Tanishi 598]

33 minutes ago, Alroy said:

it would make Dir look and sound like a Deathspell Omega band.

That's what I hoped Arche was going sound like before Rinkaku came out (I really like Rinkaku though). They could have combined their sound on DSS with a ripped off Deathspell Omega sound and it would've been amazing. Though they are a mainstream metal band so I can understand why they followed it up with something more accessible. Only that DSS showed so much potential but left much to be desired and I was hoping the follow up would correct it's flaws. 

 

Arche is alright though.

[Pretsy 1343]

1 hour ago, Nowhere Girl said:

Well, you're right, but that's going to be the case with any song. VINUSHKA happens to showcase several different styles, which is what you asked for...

 

Also, DEG has changed quite significantly over the years. There's nothing they're doing now that sounds like JESSICA, for example.

I see.

 

I do agree about DEG changing significantly over many years, but even with changes like these bands do not ditch certain things completely. With regards to JESSICA, it already belonged to the album that pushed forth more experimentation into their sound. Even in spite of that, punk elements explored on JESSICA were scattered throughout Diru's repertoire and are present even nowadays. So it is not about the overall composition but clues, little jigsaw puzzle pieces that are common inbetween what they were in 1999, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2011 and now.

 

1 hour ago, fieldsgrow said:

That's what I hoped Arche was going sound like before Rinkaku came out (I really like Rinkaku though). They could have combined their sound on DSS with a ripped off Deathspell Omega sound and it would've been amazing. Though they are a mainstream metal band so I can understand why they followed it up with something more accessible. Only that DSS showed so much potential but left much to be desired and I was hoping the follow up would correct it's flaws. 

 

Arche is alright though.

The fun part here is the "metal" part in their genre definitions being unsolved, since the band themselves never had any specific say on either "rock", "hard rock", or "metal" tags used to describe what they'd play. 

 

Nor they excluded the possibility to play standard tuning jams one day instead of 7-string djentlemanship. Anyone of us can wish something more specific from these guys, which was also the point of my aforementioned questions.

 

Are they the kind of musicians who build new things on top of their existing, consistent foundation; or are they just your local jam band who feel like playing something random next because they don't care about constructive musicianship, or they just don't know how to be daring? 

 

My point was that there is a way on giving an objective outlook on how they'd usually sound instead of using FineBros-like cheap shock values and showing OBSCURE and GARDEN next to each other. They are not avant-garde monsters like Phish, nor Mr. Bungle, nor even Butthole Surfers - of which the latter bands have their sound clearly defined and used to describe sounds of much younger, inspired generations.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Alroy

[Nowhere Girl 189]

20 hours ago, Alroy said:

My point was that there is a way on giving an objective outlook on how they'd usually sound instead of using FineBros-like cheap shock values and showing OBSCURE and GARDEN next to each other.

DEG does this often. The choruses and verses are completely bipolar in dead tree, OBSCURE, Hydra (original ver.), karasu (original ver.). The intro to Gaika... and the UNRAVELING remake of Unknown. Despair. Lost. are both a troll; they start like a ballad but then go full booga-booga. On ARCHE, Kyukoku no Kyouon and The inferno are back-to-back. It's the same on GAUZE with ZAN and Akuro no Oka.

I'd argue that the band has been using 'cheap shock' since Kiri to Mayu on MISSA. The original lyrics are to do with murder, necrophilia, and suicide (and the video shows hanging). This hasn't really gone away, either. They've been doing this their whole career.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Nowhere Girl

[Saishu 1589]

DEG isn’t doing anything out of the ordinary though. The dynamic shift from quiet to loud/gentle to heavy is a common practice in music in general. Stuff like Unknown.Despair.Lost just reminds me of old school Metallica, where they would have acoustic intros that led into full on thrash songs. Quiet verse/loud chorus was especially popular in the 90s grunge era. 

 

I guess there’s also the factor of VK/jrock bands typically not giving two shits about sticking to one style or genre. One only needs to listen to practically any MUCC album for proof of this. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Saishu

[Pretsy 1343]

2 hours ago, Saishu said:

DEG isn’t doing anything out of the ordinary though. The dynamic shift from quiet to loud/gentle to heavy is a common practice in music in general. Stuff like Unknown.Despair.Lost just reminds me of old school Metallica, where they would have acoustic intros that led into full on thrash songs. Quiet verse/loud chorus was especially popular in the 90s grunge era. 

 

I guess there’s also the factor of VK/jrock bands typically not giving two shits about sticking to one style or genre. One only needs to listen to practically any MUCC album for proof of this. 

Which is also the bane of Mucc's existence or Diru's existence in this case as of nowadays, since any listener could motivate their decision on dropping post-Houyoku MUCC / post-UROBOROS Diru experimentation by pointing out that "there are bands that have much better expertise in doing metalcore, death metal, synth pop, electro rock...".

 

So as a result, and based on how @Nowhere Girldescribed "exploring various styles" as the prime advantage of Diru or MUCC in your case, these bands technically have no leverage nor unique value assigned by their listeners. So what kind of factors are making their fans revert back to MUCC or Diru of any era without any problems about them changing styles every now and then? Could you really define reckless genre transitions as a part of their value creation? Or is there perhaps something more that makes the band behind metalcore, synthcore, nu metal, post-hardcore and pop schlagers?

[EzraEroguro 174]

I'm serious. When are we gonna petition for remastered Vulgar, and Withering to death.?

[Seelentau 884]

There's a remastered version of Wtd.

[Mamo 1172]

8 minutes ago, Seelentau said:

There's a remastered version of Wtd.

There is?

[Seelentau 884]

Yes, the South-Korean version is remastered, from what I know.

There's also an unmastered version, but I wasn't able to win the auction to buy it ._.

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Seelentau

[Seimeisen 4406]

32 minutes ago, Seelentau said:

Yes, the South-Korean version is remastered, from what I know.

Have you heard it? If so, does it sound anything like the remasters on VESTIGE? Or more like the remasters on DECADE 2003-2007?

[Seelentau 884]

I don't have the SK Version, sorry. :/

 

Apparently, the US version of DSS is slightly mastered differently from the EU version as well...?

Edited January 21, 2018 by Seelentau

[Pretsy 1343]

I have noticed that users dozens of pages back have wondered about certain Diru titles like "[KR]Cube".

The actual origins of that song title are still absurdly hilarious (Japanese wiki):

 

Quote

最初「くるりくるりくるり」というタイトルを京が考えたが、他メンバーからの反対でこのタイトルになった。「KR」は「くるり」という意味で、それを3回繰り返すので「cube（3乗）」。

 

So [KR] means "Kururi" that Kyo repeats thrice throughout the chorus, I guess? And "Cube" of course being the power of three mathematically speaking.

 

"Rasetsukoku" on the other hand seems to have more complicated background:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakshasa (since it literally translates to "the land of Rakshasa")

 

And another odd Alex Jones-y page that I discovered in Japanese:

 

http://windows2012.bakufu.org/takeshima3.htm

 

And citation:

 

Quote

いわゆる「行基図」(ぎょうきず)。行基式日本図は、国々を丸みをおびた俵の形とし、これを積み重ね、かつ山城から諸国への経路を示すことで日本を表現することを特色とする。奈良時代の高僧行基により作成されたと伝えられ、現存する多くの行基図にもその旨記載されているが、もとより後世の仮託。ただしなぜそのように伝えられるようになったかには諸説がある。江戸時代初期まで作成された。本図においても「夫図行基菩薩所図也」との記載が序文にある。明暦2年板は最後に印刷された行基図とされるが、そのものは現存していないため、その写図である本図は貴重である。各国色別に着色し、上部を東，右を南とする。2本線で五畿七道を描く。安房の南方に「らせんこく」（羅刹国）の記載がある。

So this is about Japan's geographical representation of Edo times or so? My Japanese is quite far from being good, so maybe if someone went out of their way to find out whether the material above somehow matches Kyo's likely songwriting topics. 

 

I would love to know whether "Hydra" is a random title or is somehow connected to Kyo's comics endorsement (Marvel, anyone?), lol.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Alroy

[Seelentau 884]

I've read the [KR]Cube thingy before (and added it to my wiki), but there's no source for it, right?

"Rasetsukoku" is a reference to Buddhism, but also an archaic word for Russia (in Chinese, too). This fits in with the Russian imagery of "Macabre". What's more, "Deity" sounds like "Deiti", the Russian word for "child". Next to the lyrics of the song, a pregnant woman is shown.

 

What does the latter half have to do with DEG?^^

Edited January 21, 2018 by Seelentau

[Pretsy 1343]

57 minutes ago, Seelentau said:

I've read the [KR]Cube thingy before (and added it to my wiki), but there's no source for it, right?

"Rasetsukoku" is a reference to Buddhism, but also an archaic word for Russia (in Chinese, too). This fits in with the Russian imagery of "Macabre". What's more, "Deity" sounds like "Deiti", the Russian word for "child". Next to the lyrics of the song, a pregnant woman is shown.

 

What does the latter half have to do with DEG?^^

The latter half is what I'd speculate to be about the actual origins of the word "Rasetsukoku" to which some archaic words for some country etc. were not referred to any legit material either, if that is how you'd address my claims. I have seen the word before on Japanese sites, stripped away from its Diru context, and what I asked here was just a mere sign of validation or a comment correcting my understanding of its origins.

 

My comments were not a part of the statement - but rather a part of the request, if you know how to read between the lines. I welcome corrections and validations, as long as any material provided is proven to be truthful as a whole. Why would they continue with the foreign country theme after the first song that is allegedly "Russian-titled" too? It has been strictly limited to one song and the tracklist numbering like on GAUZE, right?

 

With regards to [KR]Cube the only source  I can provide are a bunch of 2ch and Amazon comments trying to link the origins of [KR]Cube to what they heard, although I am not sure about sources related to band members' comments either. So I never said my claims were iron-clad and error-proof. Mind the phrasings like "I guess" and "seems to".

 

Is there even a way to hold an intellectual discussion about anything DEG?

Edited January 21, 2018 by Alroy

[Seelentau 884]

Sure, if you want to hold an "Intellectual" discussion...

 

First of all, please see the ", right?" at the end of my first sentence. It was meant to be a way of asking if you, as the original user who posted the information regarding [KR]Cube, might know more about its origins. Not with one word I described your claims to be "iron-clad" or "error-proof" or addressed them in any other way, so please don't put words in my mouth, if phrasing is oh so important to you.

Second, my information about the word "Rasetsukoku" was simply meant to educate you on its meaning, as that is what you were asking about, if I understood your post correctly. So no, the term does not have to do with Japan's geographical location, but with its neighbours to the West. Skimming over the link you provided, the website deals with archaic Japanese geography (as in, the way Japan saw their surrounding world), where Rasetsukoku obviously is a part of.

In regards to the Russian imagery: Deity is not a Russian-titled song. I said that the term "deity" phonatically resembles the word "deiti", which is the Russian word for "child(ren)".

Then, to answer your new question: What is a "foreign country theme" to you? If it's just the title, then there are a lot of foreign country themes on all albums, since no album is strictly Japanese in its song-titles. If it's also about the lyrics, then there are no foreign country themes on GAUZE, because there is not a single song that has entirely non-Japanese lyrics (if we go by "Deity" being the basis for having a foreign country theme).

Edited January 21, 2018 by Seelentau

[Saishu 1589]

I’ve given up trying to understand the old DEG song titles, now I want to know what the fuck “hidauta” means. 

[Pretsy 1343]

Anyways, no drama llama and that's a good thing.

 

I just wanted my comments, especially Rasetsukoku one with some links I attached, to be validated, corrected or disproved. Kyo before TMOAB seemed to be less vague and faux-philosophical about meanings of his titles and lyrics, so I was just curious about the actual origins of titles and some keywords within lyrics circa MACABRE.

 

Wikipedia barely cites any sources, which leaves us to speculate and hard-google some stuff about possible connections to actual mythologies, history, legends...

 

 

 

 

[Tokage 5930]

everyone knows that the [KR] in [KR]cube stands for Kamen Rider

[Seelentau 884]

19 minutes ago, Alroy said:

Anyways, no drama llama and that's a good thing.

 

I just wanted my comments, especially Rasetsukoku one with some links I attached, to be validated, corrected or disproved. Kyo before TMOAB seemed to be less vague and faux-philosophical about meanings of his titles and lyrics, so I was just curious about the actual origins of titles and some keywords within lyrics circa MACABRE.

 

Wikipedia barely cites any sources, which leaves us to speculate and hard-google some stuff about possible connections to actual mythologies, history, legends...

 

Just see where "Rasetsukoku" sends you in the Chinese wikipedia: https://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=羅剎國

It's an archaic word for the Western countries, especially Russia, and comes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakshasa

That's all there is to it, really.