How important are lyrics to you?

[Desqui 48]

My native language is English and I find I do not like a lot of music simply because of the lyrics (and the vocals, but that's a different topic).

 

I wouldn't say I've tried really hard to break out of this 'rut', but I think one reason I prefer listening to non-English music is because, though the lyrics may so be terrible, I don't understand them 100% and so don't have to pay attention to them--and I can focus on whether I like how the vocals go with the other instruments as a sound. I have no doubt that were most of these songs in English, I'd tire of them.

 

I used to look up lyrics and their translations, but I think it was just for the fun of language learning because I could care less what the song is talking about usually and I've never tried to fully understand every word/nuance. The 'gist' is fine enough for me, if anything. Do you find this to be disrespectful to a vocalist? I do. But I guess I don't care that much.

 

That means I categorize songs as such:

1) good lyrics, good music

2) good lyrics, bad music

3) bad lyrics, bad music

4) bad lyrics, good music

 

I wouldn't listen to 2-4. Good and bad are all personal relatives, of course.

And also, there are songs I have taken a little to heart what they say and it's boosted my like factor. But I find these to be few. I dislike the idea of a song changing my thoughts. I hope that makes sense.

 

Main point: I can't listen to a lot of English songs even if I like the music because understanding the lyrics gets in the way of my enjoying it. Understanding any lyrics I find terrible ruin a good song.

 

Main question: How about you? Are you the type to memorize lyrics to sing along and understand everything? Or are you like me and you just want some good noise? And how does that tie into you liking songs sung in a language not your native?

[beni 2149]

Apart from how the vocalist sounds, the lyrics is the other important ingredient to me in fully enjoying a song. If I can find translations of course when it comes to Jmusic. Before getting more into MH resulting in me looking into more genres and various artists, I'd only have a small discography of the same artists, so having the time to track down translations was much easier back then. Lyrics mean the biggest thing to me when it comes to music, especially English sung as you've mentioned. My favourite songs are usually ones with a romantic or poetry like writing to it. I, more often than not, do care what the message/meaning behind a song is and I feel I'd understand it more by knowing the lyrics so that's another reason why I push to locate English lyrics. I enjoy memorizing the lyrics and with that in mind, enjoy listening to them even more because I know what they're singing.

 

Below are two of my favourite English and Japanese songs I enjoy mainly because of the lyrics.

 

 

 

All in all, I feel you and am in an agreement with you. 

 

Also, if you're interested in what others who might miss this thread have to say, check out here and here for similar threads.

[YuyoDrift 1540]

They mean everything to me, and not at all. It's a complicated answer.

 

My most favorite thing to do when I first listen to a song is to listen to it repeatedly.

With every listen, I try and gauge the theme of the song by:

• Tone of voice
• Tempo (BPM usually)
• Composition of each instrument at play
• Duration of the track
• How well each instrument enters and exits the spotlight

I believe my most memorable track is July 8 by the GazettE. I spent almost 3 years listening to that track, never caring for the actual translation of the lyrics. The emotion I felt represented by what the GazettE brought forth through their instruments was a translation in itself.

I did eventually look up the lyrical translation, and immediately broke into tears of disbelief because the translation was EXACTLY what I had translated in my mind every time I listened to that song.  

 

So in other words, lyrics mean everything to me, but only after having figured out the translation for myself. So it's up to the band to give me something to feel upon first listen.

 

This applies strongly to Japanese music.

[blackdoll 907]

No lyrics are nothing unless the song makes me want to look em up

[doombox 4421]

Content of the lyrics is probably the least important thing for me, typically. Melody, vocal technique, vocal tone, and emotive quality are much higher on my list. Sometimes really bad lyrics will make me laugh, but in some ways that's another thing I can find charming about the song. Especially if I know the vocalist is singing in a non-native language to them. I'm pretty forgiving if they sound good while they sing nonsense.

[emmny 4139]

(following refers to jap music only)

i listen to a lot of visual kei that i wouldn't listen to had it been sung by a native english speaker

this esp goes for metal/deathcore/alt metal styled visual kei; i prefer not to really understand what they're saying, the lyrics suck most of the time.

but good lyrics make a postive difference, i wouldn't be so obsessed with deadman, amber gris, moran and kagerou if they weren't led by such brilliant lyricists. on the flip side, bad lyrics tend to make no difference cuz ignorance is bliss i have no clue what they're saying/screaming; however, there's an occasional exception of shitty engrish that is just too grating to ignore.

[CAT5 9075]

Lyrics generally don't matter to me unless they're bad to the point that they're distracting. I've always been more attracted to timbre - sounds and their many shapes and forms. On the flip side, the right lyrics with the right music can really be compelling.

[Bear 1817]

I don't really care to be honest. I listen to music for the sake of the music, the way it sounds. And love bands with great lyrics, mediocre lyrics, awful lyrics and no lyrics at all (be it because the vocalist just makes sounds, or the music being instrumental). Doesn't make a difference at all.

 

Bad lyrics won't ruin a great piece of music as the music will still sound great, just like great lyrics won't turn a bad song good as the song will still sound great. And at the end of the day, as I already stated, music is about the music for me.

 

And I sing along to good, mediocre and godawful lyrics, or just lyics I don't understand.

 

 

Fuck lyrics!

[Deathtopi4 428]

I can take them or leave them. If I understand the lyrics and they mean something to me then great, but they are lame it won't affect whether I like the song or not. The sound is the more important thing. I do quite enjoy laughing at lyrics that are bad or just plain silly though. However, if a song sounds bad and has terrible lyrics on top if that, I never hesitate to bash them lol. 

[Desqui 48]

Thanks for the responses everyone! It's really cool to read everyone's perspectives.
So, I have responses for most of you but it would be a really long post/several posts....Do I... post them? xD

My friend speculates that the reason I can't get better in Japanese is because I don't want to.
She is half right. I really want to read novels and newspapers. What I don't want to know is what all the songs I'm listening to are actually saying. Even without knowing a ton, some of them I can tell they're just trash lyrics. T_T Why lyricists? No integrity? *cries* All hail SOUND - the basis of all language!

 

That being said, a few weeks ago I totally broke down and cried when I listened to Baiser's Akai Kakera after a long time. Someone help.
 

I also find myself more forgiving for other languages than Japanese, like French, Arabic, German, KOREAN.
I think it's because my intro to Jmusic was through this "rock" while the others were through hiphop or pop so I already presume them to be unlikeable as a whole. While, if I find a new band from Japan, it's like I'm digging for buried treasure and there better be some treasure goddammit.

[Desqui 48]

Ah screw it.
 

@beni
Since it sounds like you like poetry, that makes sense that words are important to you and so the lyrics are a must. I'm actually trying to get into more poetry (and reading in general), so I do believe I am on some sort of verge of shifting from not caring to caring just a little bit more.

Thank you for the examples too. When I first got into Japanese music, of course Gackt was in that mix and, I did look up lyrics to Oasis and it made me like the song even more. The other threads were a great read too (and seem more on point than mine). Some mentioned French music and that reminded me that while I don't generally like Japanese or English hiphop, German and French hiphop sound awesome to me--even though I know what they're saying would never appeal to me in English.

Does that mean that if you don't like the lyrics then you will definitely not listen to the song?

I went to a Jmusic concert in the States and was floored how many people were actually singing along. No way they All understood! It made me question my "fan"-ness @-@
 

@YuyoDrift
I resonated with your post so much!
I don't try to make a theme for the song, but I totally understand. Especially with the experience of having listened to a song so many times only to look it up later and surprisingly find that the lyrics coincide with my exact feelings of what I was associating it with. Crazy how that happens! I seriously believe there is a connection between language and sound. But I wonder why it is only with songs sung in my non-native language that I can make this connection.
 
/Wack Theory ahead/ Maybe each person has a particular sound spectrum their brain feels comfortable with but since individuals don't know what spectrum it is, when they create music, it is more grasping attempts at that sound. And since I am trying to find something Outside (Inside), it only makes sense to reach for something/someone of a different origin because their creation may sound more similar to what I'm trying to find than my own creation. ? That doesn't make sense. lol I don't know. It could also do with the fact that in English, I understand immediately so the mystery and discovery is gone~~
 

Unfortunately, when I want to imitate the song with my own music making instrument (my vocals) it has to be through the form of the sound of the lyrics, regardless if I understand or not, because I can't create the guitar, bass rifts, or drumming with my mouth. And that's where the chasm is. To look it up to sing the song throws you into understanding~ or at least me because I'm a sucker for decoding language.

[Desqui 48]

@doombox and Deathtopi4
I forgot that I will laugh at really bad lyrics too but will still listen to the song because it's fun. It's usually some form of bad English, though, if it fits with the song as a whole, I'll let it slide...and laugh. Bad Japanese lyrics? Hmm...
How serious did the Pumpkin Head actually take themselves?
 

@emmny
I've been meaning to look into Moran but just never have had the time. Are there particular songs with good lyrics you wouldn't mind recommending?  Someone on the other threads mentioned amber gris, so I'm going to look into them too.

I remember giving a GHOST song to a friend for her to translate and she didn't even get it. "I don't understand this! They're trying to be all artsy with words and stuff! It doesn't make any sense!" LOL I told her the broken, nonsense stuff is all I can catch though! haha

It is my general understanding that if the lyrics suddenly start sounding inconceivable, it's probably not Japanese anymore. xD

 

@CAT5
I don't know much about technical music terms. Timbre is the shape and form of sound? That sounds amazing! It's basically the poetry of musical notes! That reminds me of watching WMP visualizations--because its "visual music".
 

@Bear
Even without knowing lyrics, I very often find myself wishing there was some way to just cut the vocalist out so I can hear everything underneath them. Yet, when I listen to only instrumentals for too long, I feel like something is missing. It's a tug-o-war!

[diamondAss 114]

No lyrics are nothing unless the song makes me want to look em up

 

i feel the same way. many good songs have terrible lyrics, in whichever languages. i try to make myself believe that some bands' lyricists are just bad with words (and better in expressing themselves with their voice, which is the reason why Jap music seems magical to me)

[Crimson Kei 45]

Not much, the whole song must work together and give me feelings. It's all about feelings for me.

And this is the meaning of art for me. Make other people feel things without saying the exactly thing you want to say, otherwise you're just saying. And you can't explain everything you feel just saying, you know.

 

Paintings works the same way. This is the reason why we can like music made in other languages that we don't understand, isn't it?

 

[Desqui 48]

Not much, the whole song must work together and give me feelings. It's all about feelings for me.

And this is the meaning of art for me. Make other people feel things without saying the exactly thing you want to say, otherwise you're just saying. And you can't explain everything you feel just saying, you know.

 

Paintings works the same way. This is the reason why we can like music made in other languages that we don't understand, isn't it?

Also that after the artist makes their art it is out of their hands. The audience then gets to interpret it however it may fit into their perspective (or not).

I was recently listening to an interview of a writer, I don't remember her name, but it sort of went like this:

Interviewer: So, when you're writing, do you understand what you're creating?

Interviewee: No. None of us do. I bet Shakespeare didn't know what he was doing.

She went as far as to say that when you're finished, the readers will make it into whatever they want by adding theories, etc., so if you were trying to create something specific or nothing at all, that could will get lost real fast.

 

So, like my wack theory, the artist could still be taking experimental shots at stuff and take years before they're actually expressing what they want to. By then, it might have even changed. I type this as I'm giving my first real listen to Sukekiyo.

I don't think art itself has feeling though. We have to bring the feeling to it. The same painting can spark fear and joy in two different people.

Your perspective reminds me of a quote I read once, "What cannot be said is sung." I disagree with the quote, but I understand where you're coming from. I just thought of this, but I wouldn't call a lot of American music "art". haha Maybe because the feelings they invoke in my are negative.

 

[mahoujin 395]

Lyrics aren't really important to me. Sometimes I'll look up a translation if for some reason I just want to know what a song is about, but that doesn't really impact how I enjoy the song. My impression of the song will be made from listening to it, without understanding the lyrics. Because of that, my mind is already made up and lyrics aren't gonna make or break it for me. It may be worth noting that Japanese isn't the only language I don't speak that I listen to music in. Interestingly enough, when I do listen to music in English, out of habit I don't really tune into the lyrics. Even though I can understand them, I'm not used to paying attention to that.

[Crimson Kei 45]

Also that after the artist makes their art it is out of their hands. The audience then gets to interpret it however it may fit into their perspective (or not).

I was recently listening to an interview of a writer, I don't remember her name, but it sort of went like this:

Interviewer: So, when you're writing, do you understand what you're creating?

Interviewee: No. None of us do. I bet Shakespeare didn't know what he was doing.

She went as far as to say that when you're finished, the readers will make it into whatever they want by adding theories, etc., so if you were trying to create something specific or nothing at all, that could will get lost real fast.

 

So, like my wack theory, the artist could still be taking experimental shots at stuff and take years before they're actually expressing what they want to. By then, it might have even changed. I type this as I'm giving my first real listen to Sukekiyo.

I don't think art itself has feeling though. We have to bring the feeling to it. The same painting can spark fear and joy in two different people.

Your perspective reminds me of a quote I read once, "What cannot be said is sung." I disagree with the quote, but I understand where you're coming from. I just thought of this, but I wouldn't call a lot of American music "art". haha Maybe because the feelings they invoke in my are negative.

 

You are right, but I didn't mean that every song must be like this. I'm just saying  I prefer songs with poetic lyrics because the voice works like an extra instrument that way. In the other hand, Music with raw lyrics rarely impresses me because looks like the voice is all thats matter and the instruments are just giving an atmosphere and they can be totally convertible to other kind of sounds or rhythms. 

Yes, not all music can be called art. Good point.

[hiroki 5521]

i had started a thread like this 2 years ago hehe, but it's nice to see this topic again.

 

here's why lyrics are important to me:

 

an instrumental track or even an operatic aria (which is slightly different by virtue of how the human voice is an instrument unlike any other) is purely affective. by that I mean the piece invokes some kind of emotions, feelings, subjective states of mind that elude the realm of linguistic value, or "meaning" in general. even if we have a universal "meaning computer," it's not possible to put a Beethoven sonata in there and grind out a meaning, no matter how contingent. (tangentially: visual art comes quite close to this as well - with the significant difference that the attempt by realist schools of art to represent the objective world means there's a vague way of correlating meaning through images in the artwork [the "leaf", the "vase"] that correspond to objects in the real world. obviously this has been challenged in more recent art history e.g. abstract expressionism, but this is an entirely different debate which I don't really want to enter..)

 

in addition to this affective dimension, a song (with words) also has a semantic dimension. the song (presumably) means something. the singing of a song can be translated into something like the unfolding of a narrative, with some sort of content that can be communicated to the listener. i want to stress that i'm not saying it's essential to understand the lyrics to appreciate the song, since the magical thing about music is that it impels listeners to feel so powerfully in a way that transcends what language can do. i'm suggesting that this semantic dimension is incommensurate with and therefore not reducible to the affective. if you don't understand the language, you lose access to this dimension, full stop. and translations don't count - they just give you access to another set of lyrics that's other than the original. in any case, not understanding the lyrics may or may not be a good thing. sometimes having an appropriate "distance" from a work of art is a good thing; by way of a useful metaphor, think of how it's impossible to "see" a painting if you're too far away, but also if you're standing too close to it.

 

this leads to another issue that came up in previous posts: interpretation. this actually isn't as controversial an issue for me. at least in literary criticism today, scholars who try to appeal to the authority of the author (author/authority - they are etymologically the same) to determine the meaning of a text are just made to look very silly. in the context of music: everyone can agree that the writing of a song is a creative act, but what most fail to realize is that every instance of an individual listening to a song is equally creative in that it produces an experience that's singular, unique, one that can never be "shared" with another individual, and which the same individual himself/herself can never reproduce at a later date. think of how wonderful it will be if you can fully retrieve that feeling you had when you first heard your favorite song by your favorite musician (well of course you can do it psychologically within your memory, but not experientially.) so for me, each experience you have when listening to a song at a particular point in time is an invaluable supplement to what the song "is." that's why a song is never fully exhausted by harmonic analysis, discourse analysis of lyrics, or any form of objective theoretical analysis we come up with; yet i think it's also inaccurate to claim that a song can just mean anything since there are always certain "meaning constraints" imposed by words in the song regardless if you understand (and accept) them - if that's the case all the songs we have would be versions of one big Song. so oddly enough, knowing what lyrics mean both enriches our experience of a song, while delimiting it in another way.

 

just my 2c!

[evilcoconut 109]

I agree pretty much with OP lol.  It's part of why I started listening to non-English music in the first place and it's now vastly most of what I listen to.  I had some album by a band...I don't even remember now, but the lyrics were so stupid and irritating that I couldn't get past it to listen to the music, which was actually good.  So yeah.  I'd much rather listen to music in languages I don't fully understand so I can fully appreciate every aspect of the music.

 

And no, I rarely look up lyric translations, unless I'm trying to confirm what I think I'm hearing for whatever reason. I just really don't care what they're saying as long as I don't understand it lol.

[peffy 3568]

The main reason I stopped listening to Western (English) music was because of lyrics.

 

I feel embarrassed when I'm listening to song that is, for example, describing hot sex, and there are other people around me. It might be a great song, but I'd stop listening to it just because of the lyrics.

 

I also get annoyed when lines are forced to rhyme. For example.. this is from a Justin Bieber song: "You know you love me, I know you care / Just shout whenever, and I'll be there / You are my love, you are my heart / And we would never ever ever be apart". Bleh, the rhyming is so dumb, and because of the very common subject matter, a thousand other songs probably contain the same rhymes. There are a limited number of words that rhyme with "heart", and forcing the next/previous line to rhyme with it just.. seems so unnecessary and juvenile. (of course, there are exceptions where the rhyming is done very well)

 

Japanese music solves both of those problems. No one around me understands a word of Japanese, and rhyming is not really a thing in Japanese lyrics. And whenever they do decide to sing in English, the botched pronunciation/grammar is usually amusing enough that I don't mind. (unless the entire song is in Engrish, which might get annoying)

 

So.. do I feel the need to understand Japanese lyrics? Not really. I can just enjoy the music without worrying about what the song is about. Since it's not my native language, I don't interpret the words unless I decide to really pay attention to it, so "bad" lyrics don't get in the way of enjoying the overall song. On the other hand, "good" lyrics can make an average song exceptional, but I think that's rarer. There are certain lyric writers that I really respect (i.e. Temari from amber gris, Mitsu from Dolly/DOPPEL) that usually write really beautiful stuff, so I might put some extra effort into understanding their words, but otherwise it's not very important to me.