Current Thoughts on Crowd-Funding and Other Similar Strategies?

[Tetora 625]

Hello,

 

Due to recent events with the band Alice Nine, I have been thinking more about Crowd-Funding and other techniques that bands or artist`s can use to take alternate approaches to releasing music, and working in the industry.

 

I am sure many of us have different opinions, and have also heard our fair share about seemingly noble causes, as well as doubtful or downright disagreeable cases of crowd-funds / Kickstarter`s.

 

Here is a quick Questionnaire that may make posting easier, although you can obviously feel free to write in any format, and talk about any area of music from across the globe.

 

Do you trust Crowd-Funds?

 

Have you ever given money to any form of Crowd-Fund?

 

What band`s do you think you would support if they had a Crowd-Funded project?

 

What do you think your donation range would be? (Be honest, you don`t have to worry about being seen as a cheap-skate, and don`t have to be Mr. / Mrs. Moneybags.)

 

Are special awards or gifts valuable to you? (Early access to tracks, special messages from the band (or whoever), other perks, etc...)

 

Do you think crowd-funding is a sustainable practice (can it be used often or only on occasion), and that many bands can use it at the same time, or does it present an even greater price-tag to fans?

 

If Crowd-Funding became more popular, would that create a greater wealth gap in the music industry, where more popular bands can sustain more releases and advertisement, while smaller bands can not succeed or compete, and labels are not as profitable so fewer bands can actually exist on a visible level?

 

What do you think of Alice Nine`s project so far?

 

Any notable musical crowd-funds you want to mention (worldwide or Japanese, though they are different markets)?

 

Should a Crowd-Funded release be free? Or should it only be free for those who donate? Does crowd-funding affect your view on downloading a release?

 

 

-----

 

Still thinking it over myself, so I may post mine again later, though so far:

 

Do you trust Crowd-Funds?

 

I don`t trust them, I don`t believe it is always ethical to market towards regular consumers to invest in something that is a dangerous market for even the most skilled Venture Capitalist`s or Angel Investors

 

Have you ever given money to any form of Crowd-Fund?

 

No, I have invested in other ventures but not Crowd-Funds.

 

What band`s do you think you would support if they had a Crowd-Funded project?

 

As for band`s that I would support at the moment, not sure, but the angle A9 is coming from is more of an inspiring one, where they are trying to get back to being themselves, so I would be more inclined to support band`s that are coming from similar situations as opposed to ones that may come off as simply unable to secure record contracts.

 

What do you think your donation range would be? (Be honest, you don`t have to worry about being seen as a cheap-skate, and don`t have to be Mr. / Mrs. Moneybags.)

 

For music, if I really did donate, it would be somewhere reasonable to me, although I am already feeling that the gifts handed out for A9 in particular are tempting!

 

Are special awards or gifts valuable to you? (Early access to tracks, special messages from the band (or whoever), other perks, etc...)

 

Yep, as mentioned above, if the gifts are good, it can kind of hustle you into raising your donation, even for a shrewd spender... Ten or twenty bucks more and I get this!?

 

Do you think crowd-funding is a sustainable practice (can it be used often or only on occasion), and that many bands can use it at the same time, or does it present an even greater price-tag to fans?

 

Anything can happen, but at the moment, not on a large scale. I think, like everything else the audience will eventually turn against it, and move on to the new thing they want or think is best for business.

 

If Crowd-Funding became more popular, would that create a greater wealth gap in the music industry, where more popular bands can sustain more releases and advertisement, while smaller bands can not succeed or compete, and labels are not as profitable so fewer bands can actually exist on a visible level?

 

If it ever, theoretically moved to a larger scale, I think if not linked to the record industry it would diminish a certain part of the musical economy, and give a big advantage to bigger bands, where-as smaller bands would get lost in the mix. It might be harder to diversify yourself or convince an audience, and if you fail at raising funds, you are left with even less gained than if you flopped a record or tour.

 

What do you think of Alice Nine`s project so far?

 

Interesting, it can definitely be a milestone, especially for one of the biggest modern Visual Kei bands to succeed at it, and with such a message behind it that I think will connect with other bands. Ultimately I think it needs to move beyond crowd-funding though.

 

Any notable musical crowd-funds you want to mention (worldwide or Japanese, though they are different markets)?

 

Nope.

 

Should a Crowd-Funded release be free? Or should it only be free for those who donate? Does crowd-funding affect your view on downloading a release?

 

I think it can depend on the level of donation, obviously, but I am debating on the subject of charging again for a release. As for downloading, I feel like more people may think `we funded it, we should be able to do what we want with it`, and that for cases like A9, people may just release the tracks early to others, and also release the bonuses such as the HQ tracks, etc... So, I think despite people being positive about crowd-funds some will still want to dictate what is done with the music made.

 

 

Thanks for reading (and possibly answering).

[eiheartx 1310]

it's SHIT.

I will NEVER donate money to a lazy band/artist who won't move their asses to tour and make money by themselves. No fucking way. Not today, when the music can be recorded more easily at home or promoted heavily on internet, you have no excuses.

I saw some examples, with one of my favourite band Icon For Hire. I was a huge supporter, not anymore. I cannot support this mentality.
I explain: they didn't tour for months, and then they woke up "we need 125,000$ to buy a tourbus!!" (no need to say that the fans that weren't agree with them and said 'maybe you should get a little job? like us hum?" were litteraly INSULTED on their facebook page). Anyway, the goal was fulfilled in less than 24 hours...3 days after "we need 35,000 now!" excuse me??? After that they were complaining on twitter that their label asked them a lot of money for the recording of their next album...I'm sure they'll ask money once again.
This is what i hate the most about crowdfunding. It's the open door to laziness. Or the contrary (a band like Flyleaf, who toured a lot and then using crowdfunding to record their latest album...).
The crowdfunding is the music's cancer. If you think that taking money from your own fans is moral, then you're just not worth it. this is just so WRONG, I cannot accept this, or shit like meet & greet. I will never pay these madness.

 

(my video was about m&g but it's not working, you have to go yourself at 3:15 min:)

[Biopanda 2675]

I think crowdfunding can definitely be done right. A while ago the VK band Lacroix Despheres started up an indiegogo campaign for their 3rd album. It was going to be released either way, but they were raising money in order to increase the album budget and hopefully work with Video Game Orchestra to get a live orchestra on their new album. I ended up tossing in $35 to get a signed CD and some goodies, which I though was a pretty fair price. Unfortunately overseas VK fans are uber cheap and they only got a total of 33 backers with an average amount of about $35 per person totaling up to $1140(with ~$6131 donated through the Japanese crowdfunding site MotionGallery). Now they didn't end up hitting their goals to record with a live orchestra. I guess you could say that the campaign "failed", but they still get that money to help increase the production values, which is good.

 

The way I look at crowd-funding stuff like this is just a glorified pre-order system where you get to choose your own pre-order bonus. I think it's a great system for smaller bands who can't get the backing of labels, but still want to do the best that they can. Honestly, I would absolutely love it if more indie VK bands would jump on the bandwagon.

[Bear 1817]

Do you trust Crowd-Funds?

 

Yes.

 

Have you ever given money to any form of Crowd-Fund?

 

No, and I'll never give any money to a band crowd-funding. Thousands and thousands of bands have manage to put out demos, EPs and albums without crowd-funding for many, many decades already, and I don't see why bands are in such a need of this now, in a time where producing a record is easier than ever before.

 

However, I could help crowd-funding a film or something though, as that shit is a lot more expensive and harder than doing a record. Can't even be compared.

 

What band`s do you think you would support if they had a Crowd-Funded project?

 

None. I wouldn't even give my friends any money to help fund their musical careers as I know they are fully capable of doing this without any help from outside.

 

What do you think your donation range would be? (Be honest, you don`t have to worry about being seen as a cheap-skate, and don`t have to be Mr. / Mrs. Moneybags.)

 

$0

 

Are special awards or gifts valuable to you? (Early access to tracks, special messages from the band (or whoever), other perks, etc...)

 

Not really. If I did help crowd-funding a film, I'd appreciate something special, but not as far as music goes.

 

Do you think crowd-funding is a sustainable practice (can it be used often or only on occasion), and that many bands can use it at the same time, or does it present an even greater price-tag to fans?

 

I think it's retarded and don't really give a fuck. Simple as that.

 

If Crowd-Funding became more popular, would that create a greater wealth gap in the music industry, where more popular bands can sustain more releases and advertisement, while smaller bands can not succeed or compete, and labels are not as profitable so fewer bands can actually exist on a visible level?

 

You don't need a shitload of money to make and release demos, EPs, albums and merch, so I don't think smaller bands will suffer from this at all. However, I can see this getting more and more popular in the future, both for bigger and smaller bands. Which is sad.

 

What do you think of Alice Nine`s project so far?

 

I haven't heard anything from this band in a long time, but considering what they've done in the past it's pobably übershit.

 

Any notable musical crowd-funds you want to mention (worldwide or Japanese, though they are different markets)?

 

No.

 

Should a Crowd-Funded release be free? Or should it only be free for those who donate? Does crowd-funding affect your view on downloading a release?

 

Of course it shouldn't be free and of course it shouldn't be free for those who donated, unless you donated a huge sum. In most cases a band/film crew/whatever will have something special to give you as a donator, and the more you donate the bigger gift you'll get, but you donate of your own free will and don't deserve a free release just because you gave away some money. But most crowd-fundings make it clear long before you donate about what you'll get for donating this and that much.

 

 

 

 

That's it for me.

[Senedjem 510]

[BrenGun 2261]

Do you trust Crowd-Funds?

Depends on which kind of Crowd-fund it is. But I never would trust a Crowd Funds of musicians.

 

 

Have you ever given money to any form of Crowd-Fund?

Nope not yet. I've not even the money to spent to such things.

 

What band`s do you think you would support if they had a Crowd-Funded project?

0 bands. I would only donate like that if they would spent the money to some good cause. (or how do you call that in English, ya know those projects to safe people in the world because of a nature disaster or something)

 

What do you think your donation range would be? (Be honest, you don`t have to worry about being seen as a cheap-skate, and don`t have to be Mr. / Mrs. Moneybags.)

20 euro maximum. (because they should be happy, that you give them SOME extra money)

 

Are special awards or gifts valuable to you? (Early access to tracks, special messages from the band (or whoever), other perks, etc...)

Depends on what they will give you. But for Alice nine, you really get less for ya money.

 

Do you think crowd-funding is a sustainable practice (can it be used often or only on occasion), and that many bands can use it at the same time, or does it present an even greater price-tag to fans?

I think bands who try this, simply want to gain lots of money from fans... its still stealing from us, because they never use it for MUSIC  only

 

If Crowd-Funding became more popular, would that create a greater wealth gap in the music industry, where more popular bands can sustain more releases and advertisement, while smaller bands can not succeed or compete, and labels are not as profitable so fewer bands can actually exist on a visible level?

HAHA no no no no no no really NO.

 

What do you think of Alice Nine`s project so far?

I know which label they are under now... I don't know if it should stay secret? But they could better find a different label with more money. Even Kiwamu would have been better

 

But there first song is nice, so lets see what they will give us in the future.

 

Any notable musical crowd-funds you want to mention (worldwide or Japanese, though they are different markets)?

- I don't know any...

 

Should a Crowd-Funded release be free? Or should it only be free for those who donate? Does crowd-funding affect your view on downloading a release?

Yes, Crowd funded releases should be free. Since they got the money for FREE. they didn't spent their own money inside the whole project.
And those who donate should get lots for free before the actually release date.

But still it won't affect me at all.

[relentless 254]

1. Do you trust Crowd-Funds?

 

No.

 

2. Have you ever given money to any form of Crowd-Fund?

 

Yes.

 

3. What band`s do you think you would support if they had a Crowd-Funded project?

 

None

 

4. Do you think crowd-funding is a sustainable practice (can it be used often or only on occasion), and that many bands can use it at the same time, or does it present an even greater price-tag to fans?

 

No, because it puts the consumers (listeners) and artists in an awkward position where the former feel an even greater sense of entitlement for helping to fund a project. I gave a band $10 to make an album, and for perks I got a digital download of the album and guitar picks. Because the band wasn't prepared for the amount of backers, it took them over a year to get all the perks shipped, and in the meantime many that backed the project were demanding a quicker turnaround or a refund. Suddenly, bands / artists more than ever are at the mercy of the consumer and have greater reliance on their satisfaction, and have increased pressures to distract from the music-making process. It's a trend which I hope dies soon.

 

5. If Crowd-Funding became more popular, would that create a greater wealth gap in the music industry, where more popular bands can sustain more releases and advertisement, while smaller bands can not succeed or compete, and labels are not as profitable so fewer bands can actually exist on a visible level?

 

Even though this is already relevant in popular music, it would create an even greater divide. A major band could start a crowd-funding effort, set the goal at $25,000, and easily double that. Hell, they could probably even triple it no problem. Some bands would do the honorable thing of taking that extra money and putting it into better production, others I'm sure would hold onto it and spend at their discretion.

[herpes 1597]

lord

 

 

 

when the music can be recorded more easily at home or promoted heavily on internet, you have no excuses.

 

do you have any idea of how expensive recording studio equipment is or the expertise required to mix and master? anyone can record at home but it's gonna sound like you recorded at home. 

 

 

 

no need to say that the fans that weren't agree with them and said 'maybe you should get a little job? like us hum?" were litteraly INSULTED on their facebook page

being a working musician is a full time job. you can't hold down a 9-5 and be travelling the country whilst soundchecking/publicising/practising/recording/mastering throughout the day and playing gigs at night. 

 

 

It's the open door to laziness

ok ayn rand

 

 

If you think that taking money from your own fans is moral, then you're just not worth it

ok marx

 

a lot of musicians love performing. but even more musicians love eating and being able to pay rent. 

 

 

shit like meet & greet

how dare these musicians charge us, the fans!, for taking time out of their schedule to pretend to be interested in hugging you.

 

 

----

 

crowdfunding is the future, while it is open to abuse, it pretty much self-regulates as most fans aren't willing to be stung twice on musicians who promise and don't deliver or musicians who con (amanda palmer). crowdfunding gives fans a chance to help from the ground up new music/live tours/etc - and I hope it'll be really embraced within the vk community in japan after this as a way of getting overseas fans to finally put their money where their mouths are with complaining about accessibility to music. 

 

 

however i won't be contributing to alice nine's as they are trash

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

 

 

...I hope it'll be really embraced within the vk community in japan after this as a way of getting overseas fans to finally put their money where their mouths are with complaining about accessibility to music.

Please do not look for solutions to problems we complain about because then that will make us look bad + get rid of that crutch used to justify feeling entitled to free music.

[fitear1590 2414]

Damn! I didn't expect people to be so anti-crowd-funding.
 

The way I look at crowd-funding stuff like this is just a glorified pre-order system where you get to choose your own pre-order bonus. I think it's a great system for smaller bands who can't get the backing of labels, but still want to do the best that they can. Honestly, I would absolutely love it if more indie VK bands would jump on the bandwagon.

Pretty much this.

If it's a band I already know, then what's the problem of "fronting" them the money and getting cool bonus items? I've done this with quite a few Western bands and have had nothing but positive experiences. I also helped contribute to the Lacroix Despheres (supposedly the first VK attempt at crowdfunding?), but the release isn't slated until this summer. Hopefully, it'll also be a smooth experience!

[Ro plz 1290]

Crowd funding has become way to common these days, enough so that its almost unsettling to me. I'm just gonna stick to supporting my go to bands the same way by attending shows, and buying albums/singles/ etc.

[nekkichi 6043]

I find it hilarious that all this drama is revolving around an optional CD single preorder crowdfunder that will not affect physical CD release (which is going to be done as an EP by their current label, and is also going to be sold in stores.)

 

they basically offered an early digital download option for fans who would otherwise pay for 3-4 single types + shipping, and added some extras for an added fee.

[Furik 832]

Do you trust Crowd-Funds?

I'm going to be talking about crowd-funded music here (nothing else - like video games, etc.) In this day and age, it all honestly depends on the band. There have been so many bands that have ripped off fans with this strategy. I guess you just have to be cautious with who you are really giving your money too.

 

Have you ever given money to any form of Crowd-Fund?

I have. I like crowd-funding a lot. Like I said, you just have to be cautious. In all my experiences with crowd-funding I have had much luck. My first was in 2013 I helped crowd-fund deathcore act Arsonists Get All the Girls most recent album 'Listen to the Color'. My last was last summer with hip/hop artist K.Flay with her full-length album. When her crowd-funding campaign ended, come the release of the album, I was sent a link to the digital album and in a few weeks, I received the physical CD.

 

What band`s do you think you would support if they had a Crowd-Funded project?

Honestly, I would crowd-fund a lot of bands if they went this route. To name a few - Enter Shikari, Atreyu, baroque, Fear and loathing in las vegas, Frankmusik, Kesha (pka Ke$ha), and Senses Fal.

 

What do you think your donation range would be? (Be honest, you don`t have to worry about being seen as a cheap-skate, and don`t have to be Mr. / Mrs. Moneybags.)

I usually donate within the $10-$20 range. That is enough, in most cases to receive both a digital download copy and a physical copy of the album once funded and that's all I really want. The digital because it's efficient and I can listen to it whenever and the physical copy to show proof that I helped fund the campaign (and place it somewhere like on a dresser or something).

 

Are special awards or gifts valuable to you? (Early access to tracks, special messages from the band (or whoever), other perks, etc...)

Yes. This is one the biggest things that draws me in. With K.Flay, if you donated a certain amount, you had access to a VIP section. There she gave video updates on the campaign along with a message board to talk directly to her as she was working on the album. It was a neat perk to basically be there as she worked on the album. Some cases, bands give you access to songs early on before they are even released - like early demo cuts, etc.

 

Do you think crowd-funding is a sustainable practice (can it be used often or only on occasion), and that many bands can use it at the same time, or does it present an even greater price-tag to fans?

I would honestly only help crowd-fund a project if the need be. I like the practice a lot but in my cases they've only been for certain reasons. Example, with Arsonists Get All the Girls, they were not on a label - they kicked out their last shitty vocalist and went back to their roots. This made me happy and the fact that they were doing this again all on their own with no help from an independent label I felt obligated to help them. In K.Flay's case - this was her first full-length and practically first release since leaving a major label. I know she needed the help and it was successful and now she's been on a tour funded by herself too. I would never help a campaign with a band or artist if I knew they truly had the funds to do so by being backed by a label or just for quick money.

 

If Crowd-Funding became more popular, would that create a greater wealth gap in the music industry, where more popular bands can sustain more releases and advertisement, while smaller bands can not succeed or compete, and labels are not as profitable so fewer bands can actually exist on a visible level?

It's already becoming quite popular because it's easy for fans to donate and receive "their prize" after funded. If this continues and crowdfunding will, no doubt, I feel labels will take advantage of this and use it for their own causes. I'm already seeing this happen as I type this.

 

What do you think of Alice Nine`s project so far?

I don't know. I don't keep up with them and I don't know what they are up to, so I can't comment on this.

 

Any notable musical crowd-funds you want to mention (worldwide or Japanese, though they are different markets)?

Not that I can think of. I mentioned two that I have donated to above.

 

Should a Crowd-Funded release be free? Or should it only be free for those who donate? Does crowd-funding affect your view on downloading a release?

No, it should not be free. For those who have helped donate, that is basically your way of paying for the release. They release should not be designed to be free for those who haven't. That wouldn't make any sense. If a band or artist sets up a campaign to begin with, I highly doubt their release would end up free anyway. It does not affect my whole view on downloading to say - not right now anyway. I'm still poor as fuck all the time so I do download a lot (even when I have a Spotify and Google Play Music subscription). However, if more artists and bands take advantage of crowd-funding, I would probably take advantage of them more and may, in the long run, keep me from downloading. If i'm getting this question right?

[StunnyHeartsiTunes 28]

I find it hilarious that all this drama is revolving around an optional CD single preorder crowdfunder that will not affect physical CD release (which is going to be done as an EP by their current label, and is also going to be sold in stores.)

 

they basically offered an early digital download option for fans who would otherwise pay for 3-4 single types + shipping, and added some extras for an added fee.

In A9 case, I'm in it for the chance to get their higher production music video released, and to just support the band overall.