New VK vs. Old VK

[Bear 1817]

You've got to be blind not to see the similarity between the glam scene and old visual kei scene. Also, you do know that Kiss didn't become a glam inspired band before around 83, after they removed their black & white make-up, right? This is what Kiss looked like after they began flirting with the glam-scene, but they were never an actual glam band, thugh:

 

[blackdoll 907]

 

I've never seen any western bands that look like that you should show me some. I am not too familiar with the glam scene back then but KISS do not look kote kei lol they're not embracing their Japanese characteristics? please. Japan took glam and made it as their own. completely transformed it into visual kei music. The only bands that were truly influenced by glam metal and things we're x japan, loudness and those other 80s bands. After that i don't see the comparison to glam as much. I mean you can see it a little bit but its not too similar in my opinion.

 

And even if those 80s bands like x japan were "imitating" the west they still had their own distinctive sound and style.

 

 

I still don't see the similarities... they both have puffy hair and dark makeup that's it. Still different looks.

 

newer visual kei bands aren't any more less "shitty" than those older bands they just have cleaner produced music. You give newer bands the same amount of equipment aliene probably had to work with and you'd get a much different result. 

 

take away the black, silver, and green marks woohoo visual kei. and they are now embracing them looking sexless japanses guys.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

 

 

[lichtlune 915]

 

 

 

 

Wow who are the last band? i didn't know glam was like this but i don't know much about glam. Never claimed to know much about glam. I guess i was wrong but i don't understand why blackdoll has to be a prick about it. whatever i have nothing else to discuss.

[elias 178]

"take away the black, silver, and green marks woohoo visual kei. and they are ebracing them looking sexless japanses guys."

 

this way anything can turn into visual kei (or anything else) after 2 or 3 steps

 

regardless, the KISS look is rumored to have been inspired by an early 70's band named "Secos & Molhados" which by its turn once stated that they were inspired by japanese Kabuki Theatre

[elias 178]

 

[blackdoll 907]

"take away the black, silver, and green marks woohoo visual kei. and they are ebracing them looking sexless japanses guys."

 

this way anything can turn into visual kei (or anything else) after 2 or 3 steps

 

regardless, the KISS look is rumored to have been inspired by an early 70's band named "Secos & Molhados" which by its turn once stated that they were inspired by japanese Kabuki Theatre

ok thats one band unless they were leaders and everybody followed kiss. Kabuki Theatre reminds me of the drummer of golden bomber.

 

 

 

 

that last one

[seikun 317]

What I long for the most is not necessarily the looks but the music. I want more bands sounding like old school Visual kei. There have been some bands that have played that style such as Madieduor, La'veil Mizeria, etc. But my problem with these bands is that they never improved their skills. I mean OK, you can sound ultra indies and inexperienced for up to 3 releases, but then you must show skills and improvement.

 

Fortunatelty, old school Visual Kei is broadly varied (you can play with rythms and speed) but most of the recent bands that have done old school Visual Kei seem to get stuck on an hyper-ultra indies inexperienced sound. No, you must show skills and take the style even further, you must improve the style (O.S VK) after a time without having to transition to another style.

 

Although I must admit this is a good song (personal opinion). I like the soun distortions, the speed changes and all that Visual Kei used to have and that caught my attention. From here they should take the style even further.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyMCU0LO29o

[Bear 1817]

I mean OK, you can sound ultra indies and inexperienced for up to 3 releases, but then you must show skills and improvement.

 

And why is this? Does music automatically get better or more interesting if you start showing skills and "improvement"? If a band continues to make fantastic music, why do they have to change anything at all?

[Gaz 1097]

And why is this? Does music automatically get better or more interesting if you start showing skills and "improvement"? If a band continues to make fantastic music, why do they have to change anything at all?

+1!

i never give a shit about how skilled musicians are. if i like the band and their music it doesnt matter whether they have maria cross on vocal or music sounds like was recorded in someone's arse. more to say, unskilled and obscure bands are the best! maybe i just have weird taste but listening to some stuff with perfect riffs and vocalist who can take all the notes makes me feel bored in most cases. 

 

@seikun and what old school bands do you consider as "skilled" and "experienced"? i always thought old school is awesome because of far from perfect vocalists and unpolished rawish sound.

[miyuu 40]

And exactly "WAS" meaning they finally realized how dumb they looked trying to imitate the west and instead embrace their Japanese characteristics highlighting what they already got.

 

 

what is this argument way above makes no sence at all lol.

you know when you google glam you also see guns and roses. that have some influence/similarities with glam/ miscategorized.

who is copying slash?

but ofcourse @blackdoll has a crush only on yuki .and being ignorant in everything else is going on xDD.

but i like how guns and roses looked young so much. they do remind me vkei for some reason even if they weren't glam.

i think maybe there are glam bands that were pretty guys. not everyone looked ugly .i remember one random jrocker who was obsessed with glam rock and keep posting a guy that was very pretty but i can't fricking remember who that was to post the band.

 

 

anyway just for the sake of conversation. how about artistic merit.

ok so no matter what you like more as aesthetics.some of them have more artistic value than others. for example being more crearive  or more phantasmagoric rather than a simple similar suit for all members .or had a bigger impact on people and in music.

.i think   pretty and standardised pictures  have very small or not at all artistic value.

do you think older bands had more artistic value ? i only remember the famous to be honest

well some people prefer art. some people like more commercial products. some people like both

 

 

someone may have a crush on yuki . i may like new bands too.

but it's kinda obvious  which had more impact and effect  in a majority of people or change things.who was more important

 

[sai 868]

who is copying slash?

 

Ironically:

 

 

lycaon's guitarist

 

Anyway, it's fairly obvious that there used to be a glam metal influence in visual kei. If it weren't for glam metal, visual kei probably wouldn't even have found its origins. The most obvious example is DEAD END. DEAD END wasn't visual kei, they were a glam metal band out of WHICH visual kei originated through other bands. DEAD END, Color, BUCK-TICK, BOOWY and X-Japan were all bands who weren't/aren't exactly visual kei, but still inspired the movement because they laid down the origins of its creation by, indeed, being a glam metal/rock band.

[Bear 1817]

I'm not visual kei genius, but isn't X Japan more or less the essence of visual kei? I've always considered them THE visual kei band. They were what visual kei was all about. By the way, this is awesome:

 

X Japan (around 84-85? Anyone?)

 

 

One of the best X Japan photos. Fanfuckintasticly badass! The picture reminds me of Motley Crue around 82-83.

[seikun 317]

And why is this? Does music automatically get better or more interesting if you start showing skills and "improvement"? If a band continues to make fantastic music, why do they have to change anything at all?

 

It is a natural thing that when you do something over and over (practice) your skills will improve. Not that a band has to go on stage and "hey, look how much I have improved". No, just use what you have learnt for the sake of your music.

[seikun 317]

@seikun and what old school bands do you consider as "skilled" and "experienced"? i always thought old school is awesome because of far from perfect vocalists and unpolished rawish sound.

 

Whenever I comment that I would like more old school Visual Kei bands these days I usually say that I would like bands not to stick to an ultra indies sounds like when you are just learning to play an instruments (which shows instantly). I want bands to find inspiration in the old sound of Visual Kei and make it even better, take the style a bit further everytime.

[Bear 1817]

It is a natural thing that when you do something over and over (practice) your skills will improve. Not that a band has to go on stage and "hey, look how much I have improved". No, just use what you have learnt for the sake of your music.

 

Yes, of course. But if a band has found their "style" (= something they'e great at), and keep releasing the same, high quality stuff over and over, is there any need for improvement or changes, even small ones? I can only speak for myself, but if a band does something perfectly and manages to write good songs, I don't need any changes at all. It's obviously hard to keep writing interesting songs if you just do the same over and over and don't take any step to the right and add something new, but a lot of bands have done that just fine and that's great. Apokalyptic Raids are one of these bands that just keeps making the same music following the same formula, but they execute it perfectly so there's no need for any changes at all. Fastkill, Coffins and Kagrra (later in the career) are other bands who did the same. You just know exactly what you're getting long before you hear anything from the album, but despite the predictable aspect of it, you're always damn pleased with the new albums because the quality is always top notch. And in cases like that, there's no need for changes at all in my ears.

 

And just because you have learnt something, doesn't mean you automatically can use what learnt and improve on anything. Using what you have learnt can easily be just as destroying as helping.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

Wow who are the last band? i didn't know glam was like this but i don't know much about glam. Never claimed to know much about glam. I guess i was wrong but i don't understand why blackdoll has to be a prick about it. whatever i have nothing else to discuss.

They were named "The Babydolls." According to Last.fm, no one listens to them and they don't even have a picture on their profile :V . I found them by googling "Glam Rock Band" and clicked their picture because they surprisingly looked a lot like Misery.

[Ikna 1225]

^Oh yeah, the american Glam Punk Scene from the early 90s. I actually already wondered myself, if they influenced VK, or if they were influenced by japanese glam instead. But my first reaction to a glamour Punks images was: "Man, that looks like early Visual kei!"

I mean this one:

Same goes for other bands of the scene, such as Queeny Blast Pop, Foxxy Roxx, Pretty Boy Floyd, Heart Throb Mob, etc.

In another thread about VKs musical origins and influences we also mentioned the New Wave and New Romantic scene and a pic of Visage was posted here as well. I think it's hard to say that VK just grew out of Glam and Punk bands. Buck-Tick were for sure a huge influence on the looks and music, but I'd never throw them into the same box as Color, X Japan, Dead End or even D'ERLANGER. Instead, they always appeared to be more on the New Wave spectrum. And I think we often forget the huge influence japanese goth artists had. MADAME EDWARDA and Auto-Mod are proven to have had a wide influence as well.

Also this guy here was adored by many VK bandguys:


 

[miyuu 40]

can i say something so stupid i forgot to say.
and actually if i had to choose i would prefer in vkei if someone copied  young Axl Rose or young Duff McKagan and not Marilyn Manson .but that's personal taste.

how many guys are going to copy mm meh.

[blackdoll 907]

what is this argument way above makes no sence at all lol.

you know when you google glam you also see guns and roses. that have some influence/similarities with glam/ miscategorized.

who is copying slash?

but ofcourse @blackdoll has a crush only on yuki .and being ignorant in everything else is going on xDD.

but i like how guns and roses looked young so much. they do remind me vkei for some reason even if they weren't glam.

i think maybe there are glam bands that were pretty guys. not everyone looked ugly .i remember one random jrocker who was obsessed with glam rock and keep posting a guy that was very pretty but i can't fricking remember who that was to post the band.

              

As if i didn't now of that tribute but really it is nothing because they dont even look alike, like wow some glasses and hat (i guess anyone with them both is coping him too, to you). But he looks like a pretty Japaneses man with his lipstick, red hair (which is different looking), contacts (sunglasses don't cover his eyes), lip-ring. and makeup.  that tribute is like 2% of his overall look. copying my ass more like a side show "thanks for inspiring me."

 

Looks like a vk pose though

 

 

ps. i don't think of Yuuki-sama that way. 

[lichtlune 915]

[miyuu 40]

              

As if i didn't now of that tribute but really it is nothing because they dont even look alike, like wow some glasses and hat (i guess anyone with them both is coping him too, to you). But he looks like a pretty Japaneses man with his lipstick, red hair (which is different looking), contacts (sunglasses don't cover his eyes), lip-ring. and makeup.  that tribute is like 2% of his overall look. copying my ass more like a side show "thanks for inspiring me."

 

Looks like a vk pose though

 

 

ps. i don't think of Yuuki-sama that way. 

 

i am trying like 5 minutes i can't see the images. i do not know if is my pc fault maybe.

yuki is  blatantly influenced by kiyoharu .

satoshi is a blatant slash copy.

and if you ever happen to ask yuki or satoshi i bet they would  defend kiyoharu or slash and say how much they admire them and how important they are to them and music. and admit they copy them. or had influence say it however you want to.

old school wasn't a copy. was the style of a whole era.

everytime i see you are drooling over yuki. and you are so delusional and blind . feels like talking to a vegetable. i give up on you.

feels like trying to convince someone that the sun isn't blue.

. keep drooling over yuki.

 

edit: seriously though i can't see the images. is it my internet's fault?

[bonsaijodelfisch 328]

 

[blackdoll 907]

i am trying like 5 minutes i can't see the images. i do not know if is my pc fault maybe.

yuki is  blatantly influenced by kiyoharu .

satoshi is a blatant slash copy.

and if you ever happen to ask yuki or satoshi i bet they would  defend kiyoharu or slash and say how much they admire them and how important they are to them and music. and admit they copy them. or had influence say it however you want to.

old school wasn't a copy. was the style of a whole era.

everytime i see you are drooling over yuki. and you are so delusional and blind . feels like talking to a vegetable. i give up on you.

feels like trying to convince someone that the sun isn't blue.

. keep drooling over yuki.

 

edit: seriously though i can't see the images. is it my internet's fault?

 

i never denied the inspiration, but i think of it a "taking from and making it great" as i said before on the sm topic same for satoshi, lets see kiyoharu rock pink hair, heels, and reveling clothes and and sing a Lycaon song, or slash dress up like satoshi they would both fail. lol just look my avi. I thick you want screws vocalist.

 

and you dont know me so cut it with the "you are" think what you like though

 

would they do fan service like this either?

 

lmao Old school on vine

 

ps. i dont drool, my jaw has dropped sometimes though.

Edited May 24, 2014 by blackdoll

[Tetora 625]

If you dont like what Blackdoll is saying why not just ignore it or state your complete opinion once rather than continuosly ganging up on them and running a thread in circles for two pages.