seikun

I have been wondering about them lately.

He likes cars I see.

I liked him when he was Moi dix Mois' vocal. I kind of got stuck in that area as if he never left the band.

1 hour ago, hiroki said:

following seikun's impeccable logic all the bangyas in vk are actually secretly lesbian because there's absolutely no reason why straight girls would be attracted to 'feminine' bandmen 

 

while we're on this topic, i also don't get:

- why there's still the weird division dictating that guys must be into vk as "ongen-gyao" who only collect cds, and girls only go to lives to swoon over hot bandmen

- why the former is somehow usually conceived as more superior to the latter.... almost every guy who's an armchair connoisseur of vk i've encountered exudes the insufferable air of making themselves sound like consumers of vk who are more sophisticated than "those bangyas over there" aka the "necessary evil" that keeps the scene afloat

- why the two are even mutually exclusive in the first place, as if being into the bandmen themselves somehow diminishes or effaces one's ability to appreciate/talk about music intelligently

 ...and i can go on.

 

basically i feel that people (mostly guys, but also girls who are concerned with being viewed a certain way) who actually have the money to spare AND want to participate are given pause because of these problematic assumptions. i've been saizen for bands (mostly very small) and have no problems with the girls or the bandmen themselves so i can't help thinking a lot of these strange ideas are self-imposed. people should just enjoy the scene in whatever way they want (yes, even if you're a guy who go to lives to fantasize about bandmen - what's wrong with that??), instead of losing sleep over what the bangyas in the same row are potentially gossiping about you.

I think some people love to misinterpret comments and I think when I said people tend to hold certain ideas about gay men that don't necessarily replicate in the outside world is kind of proven.

Another user said that VK artists are particularly popular among gay men in a similar fashion as they are among women. As another user said, most bands market themselves to women because there seems to be a commonly known attraction from women to VK artists. I doubt that specific type of attraction defines or characterises gay fans of Visual Kei. I'm not saying there aren't gay fans of VK who don't find them appealing; I'm saying I highly doubt that is a general factor for gay men. I would rather say a VK artist's charisma play a bigger role, the music and the safe space but I don't think most really see them beyond that.

1 hour ago, nekkichi said:

wasn't phantasmagoria notorious for having a yuge male following on top of their remarkable commercial success?.. 

I also recall lynch. having quite a few male fans, which might be a by-product of toning down vk looks and therefore attracting dudes who typically listen to western alt-metal bandz.

 

I also know that normie japanese expats recognize luna sea, but idt any of current bands come anything close to that.

 

I'm not sure what the gif implies, I'm just debating the idea tht gay men are attracted to men as they present themselves in Visual Kei on a general scale.

I have tried to introduce VK bands to so some in the past, all kinds of bands with no success.

They would rather go for Nick Jonas.

40 minutes ago, Ikna said:

 

Are you a gay man? Do you know gay guys? Because you sure are generalizing things based on your subjective "experience". And that whole "feminine men are not wanted by gay guys" thing falls apart even when you take it to reverse the orientation. If all gay and bi men only like men who are stereotypically masculine how come straight and bisexual women who are also into men can be attracted to androgynous and feminine guys? By your logic absolutely no one would be attracted to fem guys. And we all know that's not true.

 

Also go ask some of the gay guys here on MH if they find bandmembers hot. I am sure you will some crushing answers.

I think I am so I know what I'm talking about.

Please, don't put words in my mouth. I never said no one should be attracted to feminine men, that's ridiculous conclusion. I said femininity is not attractive for gay men. While some are attracted to femininity most aren't.

There are lots of gay websites and forums that discuss the topic as well as videos on YT because it is the case that gay men tend to look for masculine gay men which has created some kind of clash that people informally call fems vs mascs and the like. Likewise, browse through gay websites and see what kind of men they select for the sexy factor. Read the comments, etc.

6 minutes ago, LIDL said:

 

Are those facts or just assumption?

Actually as a gay man myself I see those far from what happened in reality.

I mean, you do know that these drag queens have trades in every cities they performed in, right?

There are gay men who are into men in make up, either sexually or mentally. And you shouldn't count them out.

IMHO, your opinion mostly based on generalization of what Gay people are.

 

 

Then you should be well aware of the fem vs masc clash.

Yes, there are some men who actually don't care about a partner who wears makeup and etc, however, that is not the rule but the exception. For every rule there is an exception.  You yourself said it "there are men who..."; just not a general of what most find attractive about men or expect of men.

Visual Kei doesn't appeal to most people and that also applies to LGB people. Many either don't know about it or don't like the music so it should ot be taken as an indicator.

Like I said before, there is a difference between finding the spectacle of a man embodying a woman or femininty beautiful and finding him sexually desirable.

1 hour ago, Komorebi said:

 

LMAO for real? I've seen girls give some pretty interesting insights about the musical aspect and guys fanboying all over Mana's "perfection".

I never said women don't pay attention to their music; I said women tend to focus more on looks and how attractive a VK artist can be to them.

21 minutes ago, LIDL said:

 

Couldn't be more wrong. Otherwise please explain drag culture and femme gay men then?

Gay community are very vast tbh.

 

I think people tend to hold lots of misconceptions about homosexuality or try to rationalise it through heterosexual standards.

Femininity is not attractive for gay men; masculinity is attractive. Visual Kei artists are hardly attractive for gay men because they are making a effort to look like or resemble women and, being gay you are not attracted to women and female traits. Not many even like Visual Kei.

The appeal in drag queens is in their sense of humour and their overall performances. That's what people look for in drag queens. They are not seen as attractive. As matter of fact, it is the case drag queens have a hard time finding boyfriends because most men are not attracted to that female persona or the ambiguity in gender expression that most of them make display of even when out of drag. That is why there is some sort of clash because most gay men look for and pair with masculine gay men.

Visual Kei and drag are appreciated as art forms and their capacity to entertain and even say things; but they are not held as beauty standards for men among gay men.

There is a difference between finding a Visual Kei artist beautiful when he embodies a woman and femininity and finding him sexually desirable.

I would say the fanbase in Chile is pretty even between both sexes. Women tend to focus more on looks and how "hot" an VK seems to be whereas men focus more on the music. Men usually show more interest in the whole music history of bands. For some men VK looks has to do with finding a safe place where rigid social expectations men face can be left aside, things like having to wear formal suits, very short hair, etc.

I don't think gay men find VK artists appealing at all.  Femininity and men dressing like women are a turn-off when you are gay. But it can be enjoyable as an arstistic performance and the capacity to relieve, as I said before, rigid social expectations for men.

But anyway, gender nonconformism, as is the case with Visual Kei, is looked down on by nazism, right?

I only like their music until 2005.

When they went major there was a change in their music, more mainstream and it lost appeal to me.

I don't understand why they must change their music style when they go major if their music is already working.

There are lots of VK bands that would be great to see them come back, but given the state of current of VK, would I really like them coming back?

I would hate it if they had to sacrifice their style and identity to fit in today.

11 hours ago, Seiji said:

Yep, it's the same band. The song playing is まろがれ (Marogare).
 

I see.

I will have to give their music another chance.

Thanks.

A Metis Gretel revival would be awesome.

Are they the same band who name is written as Amaterase?

I remember their musc didn't resonate with me, but this sounds really cool and the old VK attitude on stage was nice to see.

What is the name of the song they play in that video?

So much analysis.

What's wrong with stating what you don't like about today's Visual Kei?

People did the same thing ten, fifteen, twenty years ago and most likely the same exact debate is happening in Japanese circles too. I don't think this is only happening in the west.

Visual Kei has gone through different phases, some more memorable than others and that have made a greater impact. It's not like everything today with Visual Kei is bad or a disappointment, but perhaps there is something about the style that's missing. In the end that's what forums are for: debate.

No one complains when you state that you love today's Visual Kei then why does it bother you when someone criticises it? You can do the same thing with older eras of Visual Kei, whatever you opinion may be. If you start stigmatising people for comments that you don't like even though they are personal opinions that harm no one then people will feel discourgaed to leave comments and a forum should be open for differing opinions.

Wow, 2007.

I first listened to Vidoll when I was invited along to a VK party on a very rainy and cold night in 2005. Ningyo was the PV being played and I loved both the song and the aesthetics.

That party night, by the way, led me to be sick and in bed for two weeks straight, but it was worth anyway.

I hope Jack does well with the sales.

In my perception of things I feel like starting from 2015 their music sounded evidently uninspired and formulaic. And obviously releasing so many songs in such a short period of time doens't help in any way.

I also get the feeling that perhaps they wanted to leave the old school thing behind judging by how less old school their music was sounding lately...

That's sad.

I loved them when they came out and, I didn't really care much if they were copying Dir en grey. I was desperate for old school Visual Kei that it still felt refreshing. Then they began to lose the old school appeal, sort of assimilating the trend in today's Visual Kei and I stopped following their music.

I think there is a lot of room to explore old school Visual Kei sounds and give them a more contemporaneous touch, but well...

Could someone translate their message?

I like Pierrot's setlist more.

Could you at least type the names of the songs in question given that the links are unavailable?

I like Himeyuri despite Mashiro's poor singing skills at the time and the music being poorly produced.

I don't know what to think about this new band of theirs. The typical fear is that they will end up sounding just like the rest of bands nowadays. 

I love this song and I was wondering if someone could take some time to translate into English.

Very appreciate it.

鬼戦

躙り寄る足音に辺りの物は震え身構えて
爛と輝く月も雲の衣に隠れ目を臥せる
闇は拡がり続け雷はおどろしく美しく
蒼白な輪郭を浮き彫りにして恐れをまた奮わせる

振り翳す刃から飛び散る火の粉は空中を舞い怒号は
大地を揺らし地響きを幾重にも募らせる
二つの紅いそれは閉じる事無く揺らぐ事も無く
幽かに開く紅は嘲り嗤う様にその口許を歪めて

鈴の鳴る様な聲で抑揚も掴ませず騙りだす

この躯刻み滅ぼしたくば 人の世を棄てて鬼と成り狂え

美麗に纏う十二単から覘く片鱗は鉛色

この躯刻み滅ぼしたくば 人の世を棄てて鬼と成り狂え

造られた鼓動知らぬ妾に 血の廻る其方歯車を止めて

The song has potential but I find the musicalisation tiringly monotonous >.<