Cereal Killer 13

We've hit peak bleep bloop kei.
 
I think this is by far the most convoluted vk track I've ever listened to... I don't exactly hate it either. Kind of endearing in a speedcore kind of way, lmao.

I stream to discover new music but when I like stuff I buy it. People I really like I buy physicals (vinyl if available and CDs). 

Kokeshi Doll from Hokkaido is active again now but play rarely, so if you ever get a chance to see them be sure to!
One of the most amazing bands I have seen live, the recordings of their music do not do them justice at all.
At gigs the singer/guitarist is like some flame of aura spewing godliness!
Tsushimamire is always a great band to check out live as well,plus they are super nice people.
warning: this song will be stuck in yo head!
 

Outstanding amazing underground Metal Bands are also welcome.
 
Currently I'm searching for outstanding great NON-VISUAL KEI ROCK and PUNK bands.
Whenever a band made a come back after years being inactive or coming back for giving live shows in a while just as TH eROCKERS do, but also THE MINKS made their comeback recently.
I'm looking for bands who are outstanding, having a real good sound, something easy to like, something special. 
Whenever they are already in their 50ties or 60ties or even 70ties. As long they play with the heart I wanna know them
 
Of course, please only ACTIVE bands.

Currently a few amazing names;
THE DOGGY PADDLE
I truly love them, vocalist sings from the bottom of his heart, while the others play their instrument truly to fit the vocalist voice in perfection, definitely check their youtube channel for more. The guys are 31 and 32 years old and already around for about 10 years. And absolute amazing to see live. In those 10 years the guys really gained a bunch of fans and they are getting more and more popular. 

Other bands are:
TH eROCKERS
THE MINKS
moll
THE BILLYYARDS
THE STARCLUB
亜無亜危異
VERTUEUX
ザ・ナイト・パイレーツ (The Night pirates)
水口晴幸 (He is in different kind of projects) http://pitpirockway.com/
RAMA AMOEBA 
WOLF & THE GOOODFELLAS
MMS R&R ENGINEERING  (went to America 2 times.)
COOKAI
THE VACK’S  (The vocalist is like a dad for me, haha.)
スネメガマフィー
BELLMONDO
THE HIGH GRIP
レーザービーム (LASER BEAM) [LOUD MUSIC, but the best!]
THE REWARD
フルダヌキ
BILLY THE KID
PUNIK
GUITAR WOLF 
 
And plenty more...
 
@CAT5
@robkun
@Tokage
@Jigsaw9 
Maybe you guys can plop in a few?
 
Also loving these guys
Coming back with a new album and going on tour again after almost 40 years...
They only existed for 3 years in the early 80ties...
(somehow many bands who formed in the 80ties only existed for a few years, gotten popular crazy fast and then also disbanding fast.... yet most people still make music until today)
 
 
And just found this band
Also fit's in my taste...
 
 
 
damn gotta add this oldie to the list too, still active  
 

Although we have kind of covered some 0f these topics, they seem to persist, and I will post my feelings towards Kurenai`s statements.
 
 
How will them having a second job enable them to be supported by a record label, move units, warrant a budget provided by the label, production costs, equipment costs, etc?
 
And do you want them to continously pay from their own alternate revenue, to pay for equipment, production, distribution, etc... To provide a product that will either be bootlegged by fans who wanta free product on someone else`s dime, or distributed to fans who supposedly deserve it for free?
 
 
And those people have a limited range of customers, limited production capabilities, presentation capabilites, limited effect on the music business, etc...
 
And how does charging for a product make you a prostitute? First of all, prostitutes have a valued commodity that they assign a monetary value and charge for use... That is business.
 
Second of all, music is a form of entertainment, and it is always a product. There is no reason to expect it to be free.
 
Yes, it is a beautiful thing that many people assign a great value to... So if people work their @sses off to provide an experience that can move you, and even change your life, that provides you with hours and hours of entertainment and pleasure... You think you deserve it for free? There`s no value to it besides you getting the product with no work on your part?
 
And yeah, I see people talking trash about Nocturnal Bloodlust in particular, as a member`s statement started this thread. I am not the hugest fan, but obviously the band is talented, and they put out a product people see value in. If anyone wants to provide a recording of their own vocals or guitar playing etc... That can be a suitable substitute for that presented in Nocturnal Bloodlust`s recordings, I would love to hear it.
 
And yes, a lot of people do it for fun, and they don`t have the reach or impact of those in the studio system that everyone seems to despise. Money is just a side-effect mostly for people that don`t want to grow something.
 
I would like to see VK and music I think has value in general grow. And that doesn`t happen without some monetary input.
 
 
 
Take a look at the booklet for any average VK band and look at all the staff involved in a release, then factor in the band, then think of the profit they need to move forward and invest in new releases and ventures...
 
This isn`t sustainable by one dollar donations. If bands can sustain a career with a decent profile through means like these, then we can talk about this, but as of now, the studio system still reigns because it is the best system that peopel have found to work with.
 
And again... People say that only a small percentage of money goes to the band when you buy a cd... As I stated, what about all the people involved in the release besides the band?They don`t deserve money either but everyone deserves a free entertainment product? What about cost of printing CD`s, distribution, etc? And if you say, oh, go digital... The country these bands are from don`t really want digital products, so let`s not suggest changing their very healthy music market so we can maybe buy another album if we feel like in degraded quality over the web.
 
 
 
To be honest, I am just expressing my views here, and I realize they are just my own views... Other people have their own, and while I believe in mine, I can accept others have views, and they are not neccessarily `wrong`. Hopefully we can discuss this amicably, and not fight each other.

I'm sorry you don't like the way I presented my points. 
 
Let me be more concise.

1. Illegal downloading is still illegal.
2. Making music, playing concerts, and promotion cost money that the band and their management pays.
3. This money and promotion comes from cds.
4. Bands won't go to the US/EU/South America if they can't see sales.
???
 Result: No sales? No band for you.
 
 
You don't have to like the bands, but this goes for any visual kei band. And we're talking about visual kei bands right now, which is why I didn't bring up other musical genres. So, you're not really making any valid points.

I'm sure I'm going to get shit for this.
 
Let's begin with a simple concept: Illegal downloading is illegal. This is not a moral statement, this is just a fact. More importantly, those who host copywritten materials are actually breaking more laws than those who download songs. This is not a debatable fact. Now, are the current modes of selling CDs and other music outdated? Yes, they are. Are there issues with a international-based way of purchasing music? Yes, that's undeniable. But is it illegal at this moment to take music that you did not create? Yes.
 
So, legally, Nocturnal Bloodlust does have a right to state that it is wrong for people to illegally download their music. So, they do have a right to say what they want, even if we disagree with it. Can they sue? Yeah, they can. Will they? Probably not, because I'm pretty sure they wanted to prove a point more than anything. Should they? Honestly, I don't think so, but it would definitely help bring changes to the way we see illegal downloading. Bands going after illegal downloading doesn't happen very much... and for a Japanese visual kei band to go against a foreign fanbase? Pretty much unheard of.
 
Now we get into the rest... like moral dilemmas.
 
But before we get there, it's important to cover what a CD sale (or MP3 sale) actually means. 
 
You're correct to assume that a CD sale does not go to the artist directly. Typically, the money goes to the label, and a portion of that income goes the the musician themselves. The label typically pays for the production of music (time at the studio, audio and visual equipment, artwork, mixing, raw production materials like CDs, jacket covers, etc.), the purchase of raw materials for the band itself (make up, costumes, equipment vans, sometimes actual equipment, etc.) the production of memorabilia and other goods, travel, food, airfare, payment of their staff (I'm not sure, but last time I saw Nocturnal Bloodlust they had three permanent staff. Their roadie, and two people from management) as well as payment for space at lives. 
 
In regards to the 'lives' payment, visual kei venues require you pay at the end of the night, after performing. It's not unheard of for small/medium venues to cost between ¥150000-¥500000 ($1500-5000) and you damn well better prepare to have that money on hand. At Taibans, yeah. It's split between the acts, but even then, that means you need to sell a lot of tickets. Why do you think a lot of band members sell at their own tables? Fans are far more willing to pay money to their favorite member than to a staff member... who'd have to be paid as well. 
 
I once saw an indies band back in 2012 at EDGE and then accidentally met their guitarist at Ikebukuro Station. He was actually debating on whether he should eat a bowl of ramen or walk the 4 kilometers home, because they were short that night and he had to give all the money he had in his wallet except for a ¥500 coin. I bought the guy a ramen cup because it was just so depressing. Bad nights happen, and if you don't have the money, don't be surprised if you have to actually dig it out of your own funds.
 
Then again, I lived across the street from 7-11 where a super indies bandman worked nights. Because most indies band members have to have two, sometimes three jobs. Hell, Natsu of Nocturnal Bloodlust worked in a 7-11 for a long time to pay for his band activities.
 
Being in a visual kei band is expensive. So, while sales don't go straight into the member's pockets, you can bet that they're just as important for the band to survive. A band can't make or sell music if they don't have the money to play or even record. 
 
I'll also put here that there is always complaining when a band disbands on here-- I've seen it time and time again people saying it isn't fair that an indies band disbanded, that they were such a huge fan of the music. But it never seems that we actually talk about why they disbanded. "They're not selling tickets or cds" is a good reason. In fact, one of the first comments on here was about how bands just conditionally disband if they're not doing well. We think that's stupid (or at least I do) but then when a band takes it into their own hands to say something about why people shouldn't illegally download their music, people throw a hissyfit. I don't understand the logic. If you want a band to survive, you buy the music. Because supporting the band you enjoy doesn't mean you make a few gifs and put them on tumblr, or draw fanart. We live in a time where, for musicians to thrive and actually continue with their activities, they need money.
 
Then you have to factor in the importance of selling CDs in a less understood way. Every time a sale of a cd is made, it shows the interest in the band. In Japan, charts are still important to knowing where a band stands. The better your sales doesn't just mean how many cds you sold, it directly effects how much advertising your next single or album receives. It can mean the difference between your video getting played on repeat on the tvs in Tower Records or getting shoved in with all the other releases. It directly reflects how many interviews the band receives offers from, how many spots they get on television, how many radio stations play the songs. We're not going to get into super big details in regards to marketing of visual kei, but it is extremely temperamental to the wants of the market.   
 
And here's where things get interesting: Visual kei isn't as popular as you would think. This is still a niche market not with an unlimited amount of funds, space, or attention. In an industry like that, you have to understand what it means for a band to lose out on a 'sale'. Even a handful of sales abroad DO matter to a band that's fighting for recognition.
 
Let's also talk about people requesting that a band travel abroad to play lives for foreign audiences. I don't think msot of you realize how expensive that is-- it's obscene. Let's talk about a 'normal' tour (like Dir en Grey, or D'espairsray for a second.) 
 
If a band wants to play in the US, they actually have to compete for visas. They have to prove the worth of their music and show that they are not going to affect the American music industry negatively. To get an entertainment or artist visa in the US, it's piles and piles and piles of paperwork, because the US goes out of its way to protect their music industry. The fees for getting a band to tour art astronomical on their own, but to tour the US? It's horrifying. That's actually why a lot of bands skip over the US and play in Europe. The visa requirements are far less stringent and it's cheaper.
 
This is why a lot of bands end up playing at conventions. It's typically cheaper for the band, because the convention has people who know the laws and are willing to pay the fees required. However, it isn't unheard of for bands to play on the promise of being paid when they arrive... and never getting paid. Or, not making the money they expected and being unable to recoup that money. And, during that time they're abroad, they aren't playing for their core audience, meaning... they're missing out on that much money. 
 
It's amazing how many times I've gone onto official youtube channels and seen the requests for a band to go abroad... and then see those same names pop up in filesharing places. Because guess what? The band sees that, too. They're tech savvy. They know where they're selling cds. They know where they're not selling cds. So, by looking at that, they can tell that they aren't selling enough in Europe, in the states, or wherever they are getting requests for lives from. And you know what that does? That influences the band against going abroad. They see that their cds aren't selling in that area, so they don't believe they would be able to recoup the money they spent on going abroad. They don't believe enough fans exist to pay for their visits. 
 
Illegal downloading is directly affecting who you get to see go on tour abroad. 
 
So while we can debate over how big of an asshole Masa is for saying that illegal downloading is wrong, you have to understand where they're coming from. It isn't unheard of for labels to drop bands for not making sales, no matter how great the music is or how talented the band is. 
 
I'm also stunned by the sheer amount of self-righteousness and entitlement going on in this thread. No one is entitled to free music.
 
There are 'needs' and 'wants'. Needs are things like water, food, shelter. Wants are internet, computers, music made by men who are wearing ten pounds of makeup and are waving around guitars. 
 
You want the music. You will survive without it. I'm not sure of the ages of anyone on this board, but I will say this: I had that same opinion until I actually had to pay for my own bills.
 
Before I became an adult. 
 
Now, let's talk about Nocturnal Bloodlust themselves for a second. 
 
This is the closest thing foreign fans have gotten to an internationally-minded band in a very long time. They make sure their music is available for fans abroad, two of the members are fluent in English and regularly converse with fans, and they have been going out of their way to bring foreign fans into the fold. They even made it so foreign fans could become members of their fanclub. They want to go abroad. And let's remember how a band can find it viable to go abro--oh. Right CD sales in foreign countries, not the number of requests a band receives.
 
In addition... they run their label pretty much on their own. All of the costs? They pay for them. Iris and Crisis is Nocturnal Bloodlust's label. They have connections to Raiz Entertainment (their old label) which has connections through the industry... but for the most part, they're the people who have to pay for everything. We can debate on if they should have gotten into visual kei until the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is: Shit is expensive. 
 
'Fans' are also pissed off because they got called out on it. The band knows people are illegally downloading, and brought it up. They want to talk about the problem. It isn't even the first time the band's done this--they did it last year, and the year before that when they released Ivy. Now, rather than having a discussion about illegal downloading and what the foreign fans want... people railed against him. They said he was overbearing and an asshole, and that he didn't have a right to speak out about illegal downloading. That's not the conversation they need.
 
If you want to have a conversation with the band about how to better market themselves to foreign fans, do it! I think it would be a good idea if they opened an international webstore where fans could buy goods and CDs. A way of buying songs off their website that are bundled with lossless versions and photos. Add special goodies for people who buy mp3 versions. It's cheaper to buy the versions of all their releases off itunes in USD than it is for Japan (example, their newest single costs ¥250 a song but in USD is only $1.29.) This is also a band that makes sure the cds are available within a week of their release in Japan, because they understand that once the cd is out there... they're not going to sell as many copies. But even a few matter. 
 
 I think it would be great if they tried to use more English and worked to try and make themselves more internationally minded. Rather than getting angry that the band is mad at foreign fans for illegally downloading, make it so the band knows what you want. And you'll buy.
 
There will be people who continue to illegally download. That won't change. People who think they somehow deserve music and the work of other people. People who think they're entitled to music (the reason I can't even begin to imagine.) And there's nothing any of us can do about that. But buying a cd or MP3 will at least show the band where fans are, and will make your voice heard.
 
And this isn't just for this one band. This is for any band with a huge foreign following. Most bands are ignorant of how popular they are in foreign countries, because they just don't sell many cds in those areas, so they don't know. What you have to do, as fans of a band, is be loud about your love for a band. Otherwise... this will just happen time and time again.

Yoshiki so I can see what he actually does all day cuz it's clearly not writing that album.

none of them, they'd just try to steal my wallet

DSS is best diru era

Dir en grey and Sukekiyo are known primarily for their Dark-toned music, which they do well for the most part. With that said,  I think DECAYS (and probably Seraph), gets hella flack because its on the lighter side.  Kinda as if its illegal for the individual members of Dir en grey to be involved in or do any sort of music that isn't dark toned. The salt when Secret Mode came out was hilarious at best. SO many ppl were "let down" lmaoo.  Of the 3, DECAYS's appeals more to me these days primarily because its a nice break/contrast tone wise. And their music, while its simpler than Dir's and Sukekiyo's is much more easier on the ears but still creative enough to keep me going back. DIE really struck gold here. 
 
Or maybe ppl aren't sleeping on DECAYS but its just cool to rag on em. 

I recently saw an interview with the Gazette and they said they had never been roadies for other bands. 

Exactly, so if I'm the only white person to bother buying something from some trashy no name indie band. I shouldn't talk about it because someone might get upset. Fuck those people and their butthurt. I know there's a difference between flaunting but I don't ever recall seeing anything like that on MH.
 
For the most part the only nasty responses I've received from people where on Last.fm and at one point good old Livejournal. MH most people aren't that bad and I'm fine with trading.
 
Basically my stance on downloading is, I do download but almost rarely these days but I still grab something here and there. I wouldn't even be a fan of the music I like today if it wasn't for downloading. However I am mature enough to know that music isn't free and I should do my part as a fan to support not just the artist but the industry as a whole. Sure label eats up a lot of the profit but that profit is usually then turn around into covering studio time, touring costs and so forth. If VK bands came to my city I would do what I do now with metal bands and just wait until they come through on a tour and buy their release then when they'll get the most back from my purchase, but since I can't do that with VK bands. At least my support helps keep the label, producers, distributors afloat so that they can sign and produce more artist.
 
With that said, my second stance on downloading is if it's a super duper poor man indies band, I don't feel comfortable sharing the material since it'll effect them the most as oppose to some major band or even successful indies artist like something from PS Company or even formerly UCP. Someone else will post that stuff anyway, so I don't bother sharing from those artists.
 
I prefer sharing music from inactive bands anyway, especially lesser known acts since their stuff is mostly long forgotten.
 
Anyway, I'm posting from the most annoying keyboard ever so if Im not clear on something, how about you try typing on this piece of shit tablet keyboard.

The question itself provides the answer. Also I am a really whiny and I enjoy it. 
 
Now I ask: why do you act so interested in this? You seem really annoyed. Remember that opinions in this post are suposed to be unpopular, why moan?

I don't care about the visuals in VK:  I say this is an unpopular opinion because I've been told countless times that it's impossible not to care about the visuals and anyone that says that is lying and on and on.  But I don't and I never have. I have some kind of sick attraction to the music itself, but I don't give a flying fuck about the band's appearance and would prefer they didn't look so ridiculous if I had a choice, just so it'd be less embarrassing to point them out to people.

I recently saw an interview with the Gazette and they said they had never been roadies for other bands. 

I recently saw an interview with the Gazette and they said they had never been roadies for other bands. 

I heard from a reliable source that Kagerou fans beat up Otogi from Awoi 'cause he ripped off one of their songs. How do you get beaten up up five feet tall gya is beyond me but I guess that happened. 

Based on gya twitter, they currently don’t like western fans showing up in Ikebukuro and telling everyone they’re “half” when they’re 75% French Canadian, 25% Irish 

I think most of the gazette vs dir en grey was someone on each side being a troll, and a lot of the people involve (sadly myself included) at the time were very young and impressionable. I saw it mainly on deviantart of all places, and sometimes LJ but I wasn't as active on there.

I don't hear anything about the supposed war anymore other than a few troll comments on videos, but /shrug.

This must be the most outlandish and fantastic fan theory I ever heard. Like aimi said according to every interview they've ever put out that I've read they pretty much were dudes in the local scene jumping from band to band and eventually the present formation sans Kai formed out of the corpses of these local bands. They were never affiliated with each other in any way since they were on totally different labels and based in a different city. All the bands that have deg associations are from the Dynamite Tommy family like Merry and Rentrer En Soi. If I'm not mistaken some Gazette members like Kai and Ruki had day jobs before making it big too, so any roadie story is just unlikely when deg was consistently touring the country from the moment of their inception and gazette dudes had barely had their first bands by the year 2000. I think the rivalry is the invention of western fans because in Japan they have nothing to do with each other
 
 

I don't know, I think there's still a crazy high amount of bands forming constantly. At least I've always felt it kinda overwhelming, lol.
 
I mean if you check the first few pages of the News subforum there are like a dozen newly formed bands within the past 3-4 months.

It's either that we're getting less newer bands or people in the overseas scene are simply digging less deeply & not reporting on every single session band / new band that forms and disbands a week later anymore

Sad/shocking to see. I really liked seeing the unity and longevity in bands like Merry and MUCC when other younger bands rotate through members like every few weeks.
 
Anyway, I'm happy to see the band continue on. I've been very happy with their music. Even when I'm not fully on board with a release initially, I've always eventually gotten around to loving it. I think they really should seek a replacement. The duel guitars is something that I always felt was very strong in this band compared to most other bands and I can't imagine Merry without someone else in that position.

bitch what the fuck....:( 💔