Miku70

golden bomber

I've been wanting to discuss this topic for a long time. Fundamentally since, in the last ten years or so, the ratio of what in this forum has been called "formulaic VK stuff" has increased considerably, which, on the other hand it is closely linked to a phenomenon that has also recently appeared, and that in this forum has been called "idol kei". Of course, as many here quote repeatedly, the abandonment of adolescence does not cease to be a powerful motive in this situation, since it makes the condition of possibility (necessary, though not sufficient) so that one can remove the veils of idealization deposited on certain music or artist (and realize how badly done or executed some productions were; for me an example of it was Ryohei-era ayabie). Finally, in the verge of the end of the decade, another reason is my concern about the fate of the VK in the 2020's, considering that since the second half of the '10 has not thrown some real "quality" or "novelty", something that can be established at the level of "classic", as it actually happened with some releases put out in the period of 2008-2013.
 
It is not easy to discuss all these issues, I imagine, for several issues: perhaps it can hurt the emotions of some users of this forum who, in fact, are very comfortable enjoying the said idealization of certain artists. On the other hand, talking about this with some minimum measure of ownership requires a listening by a broad repertoire of VK, which has at least something from each of its eras (at least the "classics"). And also, it requires some knowledge (at least intuition) about aspects related to composition, instrumental performance, recording, live performance, the dynamics of the consumer market, etc.
 
As, to my pleasant surprise, I have found in this forum people who speak (or at least try) from this knowledge, is that I come to open this thread here in MH. Anyway, I hope that no one is deprived of writing here, contributing from what he/she has and his/her interests.
 
I think that it is best to start on by discussing some basic concepts, instead of directly delving into anything else:
 
1) What are the indicators that make a song "ghostwritten" for you? And that it is not?
2) What are the indicators that make a band "idol kei"? And that it is not?
3) Where would you put its birth date?
4) Do they qualify as "good music" or not? Do you enjoy them? Do not? 
5) Does it seem to you that this certain music goes "against" (to put it somehow) of certain "well-being" of the scene, or of the music itself?
6) Why are you still listening to VK in the 2010s? Are your reasons the same as before? What does it give you that other music does not give you?
 
I read you!

Nothing that I put in bold is recent. Visual kei has been boy band metal for as long as visual kei has existed, just the appeal and the market has changed in and around it. Remember that visual kei takes lots of cues and inspiration from glam metal, which was boy band metal from the 80s. Formulaic visual kei has also been around almost as long as the scene has; it is just the formula has changed as well to adapt to changing markets. Take any decade of music and you can see this in action. 

I made it through the roughest part of the scene so far (end of 00s to early 10s) where the momentum within the scene seemingly contracted and the fifteen minutes of fame had passed, and that was the most prime moment for the ceiling to fall and the scene to die. It didn't. Thus, I'm not too worried about the "fate of visual kei". Visual kei is resilient and it will adapt into whatever form that it needs to to survive. Us being here 12 years is proof of that. I would be more concerned if your ~flavor~ of visual kei survives the next decade. It won't, but perhaps what rises out of the ashes will still appeal to you? I'm an old head who prefers songs from the 90s and early 00s, but I can find music in every time period that I like! If you still like visual kei in ten years, you'll have new favorites. I guarantee it.

But of course, this isn't about the future of visual kei; it's about ghost writing. I'm sure the scene has a few ghost writers, more than one could optimistically hope for and less than one would pessimistically believe. I also have the unpopular opinion that the scene would be taken more seriously as a whole if more bands hired ghost writers. Not to plug my own work here, but my Copy/Paste series is all about finding musical similarities that pop up again and again and it's way too easy to take a currently active band and find a riff they took from a popular band 5 to 6 years ago. A lot of new bands today look to bands of the past for inspiration and it bleeds through to their music, but it's not doing enough to push the scene forward. The homogenization of the scene is doing a lot more to affect the sound of visual kei than everyone tapping the same ghost writer for new material. This kind of homogenization can also be seen in disparate industries like AAA video games and block buster movies, where studios would rather stick with something safe and deliver guaranteed profits rather than try something new, potentially fail, and lose money. I think we are seeing the same thing here, don't you agree?

What you bring up at the end of this paragraph is one hell of a revelation, so I'll have to quote it again:
 

I certainly cannot think of a classic from the last decade off the top of my head as easily as I can one from the decade before that, but a lot of that has to do with time. Time, no matter how small, is required for an album to transcend to classic status. Classics are defined by the effect that they have on music that hasn't been made yet, so unless you have magical future seeing powers it's hard to know what will stand the test of time for sure. Classics also have a personal angle to it; something can be a classic to you and not to the scene at large. It can also go in reverse. Albums can be considered classics by consensus, even though very few people may listen to said album on a regular basis (example: Art of Life by X JAPAN is a ~classic~, but when is the last time anyone sat down to listen to all 30 minutes of it?). A lot of albums were also given "classic" status years ago that definitely didn't stand the test of time. illational by THE EIGHT is my favorite example of this, and if your first response is "who is that?" then my point has been proven.

I wouldn't worry too much about not having classics from this time period now, because bands are still proving themselves. Come back in five years and I am sure that generating a list will be way easier. You could have asked me this question in 2012 and I would have been completely unable to answer your question. Now, I'm only partially unable
 
To run through these questions rather quickly:
 
I never thought about this, but there could be a few good ones. Bands that pump out release after release and the styles of the release are all over the place. If the band sounds like 3 or 4 people with different musical affinities are writing the music, that's because it probably is. Liner credits can also be a dead giveaway, especially if the band doesn't have any, but bands are also known to lie on those so they aren't always reliable. 
  It's not a perfect definition, but bands that obviously care more about looks than music are definitely idol kei. Visuals are important, but visuals are just a medium to sell music and concepts. If your Photoshop is on point but your music sounds like it was recorded in the gutter, you are "idol kei" in my eyes. If you have a ton of money for intricate outfits, but complain about fans not spending enough money, you're probably "idol kei". If a band has one core member and other members that can be exchanged interchangeably, that would be considered "idol kei" to me.
  Same day as visual kei was born.
  I think the argument over whether ghost writers produce "good music" is all subjective. That's why it is in quotes. Logically speaking, someone hired to write and produce mass amounts of music is supposed to be good at their job by definition. Do I approve of ghost writers? Only when they do a good job and I don't think about it. Music is inherently collaborative; I'd rather have band members work with veterans and bounce ideas off of others to come to the best solution rather than DIY the whole process and come out with a diamond in the rough, or potentially something even more disastrous.
  There are other things about the scene that hurt its well being more directly than having ghost writers. I'm sure most genres have artists that use ghost writers.
  I'm still listening to visual kei because it provides me with sounds no other scene does. The sounds I like and the bands that follow change, but I'm still attracted to the overall sound. I actually don't care much about visuals at all tbh.
 

Ghostwriting isn't "stealing from the bands you idolize," so I'm not on board with the Vexent example for how it was framed. For example, it has also been rumored that Grieva had ghost writers, even though 80% of their early works were Diru covers. However, the suspicion didn't rise from what was being written, so much as how much was. They churned out basically an album-a-year's worth of material, and 2 out of 3 full lengths featured no singles or rerecordings. The same more or less went for Gossip, except theirs did feature old songs; however, they also released 3 albums, 4 singles, and a mini-album in 2 years (plus went on a 107-stop tour(!) ). Riddle me how the fuck someone has time to compose 30~45 songs while also being in a different city every night.
 
The rumor mill surrounding ghost writers has been a lingering specter ever since that "ex-vkei record executive SLAMS Dynamite Tommy in the gooch" interview surfaced in 2008~2010 (it's a fun read). At one point he or she states that record labels like Matina would ghost-write all of their lesser bands' material in an effort to keep their branding consistent and because the bandmen themselves are actually dimwits who can't make music and just want to be a rockstar for 3 years, then ""retire"" to become a hedge fund manager.
 
Aside from #thatArticle, I have not personally seen actual proof of this practice, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of cases ended up being true. Tell-tale signs from me include too much material too fast, or if their sound dramatically changes (read: improves) once they get signed. 
 
 
 
For the rest of the questions:
 
2- I'm not entirely sure what this means. In the past, I've referred to groups like Shounenki and the like as "host-kei" because of the emphasis on tame, yet androgynous pretty boy aesthetic, but I'm not sure if this counts as "idol-kei."
 
3- December 25th, 0
 
4- Music is a lot better if you don't get too caught up in the marketability of it. If it's good, it's good. If it's not, it's not.
 
5- Considering nothing sells (re: 3 major vkei-focused music brands closing and Oricon summing up yearly sales for 2018 with most top-20 releases not even breaking 3,000 sales (and one (1) item breaking 10k sales), I'm hoping that it's popular enough to keep the scene afloat.
 
6-If I like something, I tend to always like it. The scene still has stuff in it that I enjoy, and a lot of stuff that seemed lost to time spring up now and again, so there are even new things from ~the good ole days~ if you know where to look.

What's up with the poop hat? It makes the video feel so surreal given the context.
"So this is what a serious adult making a sincere apology looks like? I've learned something today."

I'm very happy for Takemasa, but very sad that he has to behave like this, apologizing as if he had committed a crime when he was just talking about his marriage. That feeling of possession that some fans have is pretty scary. I hope he and his wife are happy.

Surprised BPR left the comments on...they love the drama (gets them views...not sure if anyone else noticed BPR's views slowly sliding off in the past little while could use a boost from some tanooks).

it's awful to say but I'm just waiting till these guys disband already so that they can act like human beings again and go on with their own lives instead of having to deal with these parasites...

its the whole music business.
so much jealousy. (>_<)
 
Hopefully Kujou can be happy with his wife.

if you get pissed at an artist for getting married and they're not cheating,beating or whatever is a cultural no-no in Japan for marriage, then you're not a real fan. I like Dir en grey, Codomo Dragon , and Rammstein but I don't care if they get married (The rammstein guys are, I think and maybe Kana got married?) As long as they don't kill, beat, pedo shit, or something immoral like that, I still buy their shit.

I suppose some people were offended by him implying that they weren’t even fans? Regardless if they are or not, his married life is none of their business. If they’re a fan, they should be paying attention to the band and their music and supporting that in their own way.

well all over the world girls fall in love with cool rockers and bangyas do have a real chance to get a relationship with a bandman. honestly, i think if i was living in japan and found out my honmei got married i think i would be really upset! idk how i'd react in such situation... but my honmei is a divorced father luckily  but being too offensive is a no-no, we all should be respectful .w.

I hate the culture surrounding the music industry that dictates that it’s some sort of sin that the musicians marry and start families, it’s insane. The fans who are against this are essentially trying to justify a reason as to why these musicians should be denied a basic human right based on their fantasies that they’ve become too invested in. Just enjoy the music, and let the musicians live their lives, it’s a very easy concept

Well, yeah. He was only saying what needed to be said. It's his life and his business and anyone who would shame him for that does, indeed, need to keep quiet. Why is that "fans" can say whatever the hell they want, but celebrities have to just remain within the confines of their careers? I get that they have this image of their idols, and that's okay. What's not okay is when that image begins to distort your perception of reality, which is what's happening here and I just can't wrap my head around it.

Well even if this sounds rude it’s true 

i'd prefer not to translate it without understanding the context fully cuz that might lead to confusion, but well, it's something like "people who have nothing to do with this and are not even fans must stop being noisy"

Couldn't have put it better myself!

it seems people in youtube comments are mad bcuz of the phrase "ファンでもなんでもない外野がガタガタ言うな", but i'm too unsure to translate this ._. like, is it a joke or what. bcuz if not, it's really rude, but it seems it is one. but in that case i don't understand why would he joke like this. can someone help?

This must've been hard. I hate how Japanese idols have to apologise for being human. I hope he and his wife can have some privacy and happiness and that this doesn't impact kiryu negatively.

Japanese fans literally can't accept their faves being in a romantic relationship, whenever stuff like that gets leaked it's always treated as a huge scandal. 
It surprises me that that Takemasa has decided to acknowledge it and speak out about it, truly shows the role that Tanuki plays in the vk scene.
It's really sad that bandmen have to be paranoid about their private lives simply because fans aren't mature enough to accept them having girlfriends/wives.
It's the "I spend money on you therefore I own you" mentality that is exclusive to Japanese fan culture. Crazily enough, western fans are much more respectful and understanding in that sense.

I didn't read all the comments, but yikes. Some fans blame the bride for starting the whole "mess" while others were upset at the way he made his announcement in the video.
 
Either way, congrats to him! Sad the situation ended up like this though  

from what i gathered some one on tanuki happened upon an add/comment about the place she works at,googled to see what it was about, then started creeping into her social media sites, cuz ya know, bangyas are crazy. Anyway her name is Erina Yamamoto and she was born in 1992

Congrats to him, even though he's been married for some time now.  Sucks he's getting such a backlash from "fans" for something as normal as having a wife.

Btw, many comments on the video seem to be large, so is anyone offering him/herself to translate some of them for us to know the gya's opinion on the subject?

So he married her because her father died... So what? Good lord, Oedipus complex still strikes the life of a human being even in 2019 Japan. Oh Freud, we are not worth a bit of your genius...
 
Btw, man, I can't even listen to a full song without thinking on the cringy Youtuber thing, the more and more shitty realeses they've have been compulsively putting out, Mahiro going blind, this guy having to make a 'serious' public statement about being married trought social media... Poor Kiryu, what have market donde to you?