Pretsy

They should just rethink and put those B-side songs as A-sides instead. Ones might disagree but even DOGMA b-sides GODDESS and VACANT had more of this focused songwriting that @ghostmentioned.

Some degree of differentiation is required here or else we may not able to tell GazettE from other schlocky alt. metal bands. This is highly important even if we may recognize Ruki right away no matter what they are playing.

15 minutes ago, geist said:

Asking someone to cite all of the "Djent" bands they know of that use 7 strings in a discussion about the predominance of 8 string guitars within the style seems rather appropriate for the conversation, no?

 

I also don't see how identifying Djent as copying the unique style of Meshuggah -- which objectively speaking, it is -- to be "vexing" either, especially not when you bold the words to provide emphasis and bolster your case.

Maybe because there is no such objective view on which instruments and the amount of strings or equipment involved make which ever genre or subgenre you are listening to? Bands have written death metal, nu metal and similar sorts of binary rock/metal genres in standard 6-string tunings too. So I fail to see the point in challenging someone to go pronto in naming those 7-string djent bands, hence me bolding some vexing words in your comment.

But this is not the right thread to discuss such things.

On 1/22/2018 at 1:04 AM, Seelentau said:

 

Just see where "Rasetsukoku" sends you in the Chinese wikipedia: https://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=羅剎國

It's an archaic word for the Western countries, especially Russia, and comes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakshasa

That's all there is to it, really.

Protip:

Anyone can edit Wikipedia.

Also, I asked for literary references. Because I found none that could somehow link DEG to intentionally choosing such title because of some Mainland mythology around that time. Kyo might be the one getting uncanny ideas, but he ain't a scholar in Asia studies, lol.

1 hour ago, geist said:

Name them. All of them. "Djent" is not defined by number of strings, sure; but do you know what it is defined by? Blatant copying of Meshuggah, whose use of 8 string guitars defined the "djent" sound and provided the template for all other bands to copy.

 

Simply put: "Djent" as we know it today didn't exist until Meshuggah changed their sound and switched to 8 string guitars. Legitimately every band described as "Djent" appeared on the scene after Meshuggah's "Nothing" (when they switched to 8 string guitars), released in 2002.

 

...

^^^^

Then again though, 'twas quite an unexpected comeback, sir/ma'am!

Jesus,

Getting vexed over someone not agreeing over certain aspects of a fucking subgenre of a subgenre is what this thread does not deserve for real.

Even if they switched to one-string shovel guitars, I could care less about such measurements. What are these guys doing at the moment is the prime issue. With 7 or 8-string guitars you could as well produce some top notch music without taking too many leaves out of others' playbooks and hoping for a good hodgepodge of influences. DOGMA was inconsistent as fuck, and even to this day GazettE has produced nothing that could brand their "GazettE sound" for good. How am I supposed to tell the difference between them and any other hardcore or djent band that cool kids from Call of Duty multiplayer servers are listening to?

[KR] stands for "Kill Rambo" then. I know it, I have read it from Angelfire shrine bios, and I will buy into it 'cause it sounds truthful 

Trust me.

Anyways, no drama llama and that's a good thing.

I just wanted my comments, especially Rasetsukoku one with some links I attached, to be validated, corrected or disproved. Kyo before TMOAB seemed to be less vague and faux-philosophical about meanings of his titles and lyrics, so I was just curious about the actual origins of titles and some keywords within lyrics circa MACABRE.

Wikipedia barely cites any sources, which leaves us to speculate and hard-google some stuff about possible connections to actual mythologies, history, legends...

57 minutes ago, Seelentau said:

I've read the [KR]Cube thingy before (and added it to my wiki), but there's no source for it, right?

"Rasetsukoku" is a reference to Buddhism, but also an archaic word for Russia (in Chinese, too). This fits in with the Russian imagery of "Macabre". What's more, "Deity" sounds like "Deiti", the Russian word for "child". Next to the lyrics of the song, a pregnant woman is shown.

 

What does the latter half have to do with DEG?^^

The latter half is what I'd speculate to be about the actual origins of the word "Rasetsukoku" to which some archaic words for some country etc. were not referred to any legit material either, if that is how you'd address my claims. I have seen the word before on Japanese sites, stripped away from its Diru context, and what I asked here was just a mere sign of validation or a comment correcting my understanding of its origins.

My comments were not a part of the statement - but rather a part of the request, if you know how to read between the lines. I welcome corrections and validations, as long as any material provided is proven to be truthful as a whole. Why would they continue with the foreign country theme after the first song that is allegedly "Russian-titled" too? It has been strictly limited to one song and the tracklist numbering like on GAUZE, right?

With regards to [KR]Cube the only source  I can provide are a bunch of 2ch and Amazon comments trying to link the origins of [KR]Cube to what they heard, although I am not sure about sources related to band members' comments either. So I never said my claims were iron-clad and error-proof. Mind the phrasings like "I guess" and "seems to".

Is there even a way to hold an intellectual discussion about anything DEG?

I have noticed that users dozens of pages back have wondered about certain Diru titles like "[KR]Cube".

The actual origins of that song title are still absurdly hilarious (Japanese wiki):

Quote

最初「くるりくるりくるり」というタイトルを京が考えたが、他メンバーからの反対でこのタイトルになった。「KR」は「くるり」という意味で、それを3回繰り返すので「cube（3乗）」。

So [KR] means "Kururi" that Kyo repeats thrice throughout the chorus, I guess? And "Cube" of course being the power of three mathematically speaking.

"Rasetsukoku" on the other hand seems to have more complicated background:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakshasa (since it literally translates to "the land of Rakshasa")

And another odd Alex Jones-y page that I discovered in Japanese:

http://windows2012.bakufu.org/takeshima3.htm

And citation:

Quote

いわゆる「行基図」(ぎょうきず)。行基式日本図は、国々を丸みをおびた俵の形とし、これを積み重ね、かつ山城から諸国への経路を示すことで日本を表現することを特色とする。奈良時代の高僧行基により作成されたと伝えられ、現存する多くの行基図にもその旨記載されているが、もとより後世の仮託。ただしなぜそのように伝えられるようになったかには諸説がある。江戸時代初期まで作成された。本図においても「夫図行基菩薩所図也」との記載が序文にある。明暦2年板は最後に印刷された行基図とされるが、そのものは現存していないため、その写図である本図は貴重である。各国色別に着色し、上部を東，右を南とする。2本線で五畿七道を描く。安房の南方に「らせんこく」（羅刹国）の記載がある。

So this is about Japan's geographical representation of Edo times or so? My Japanese is quite far from being good, so maybe if someone went out of their way to find out whether the material above somehow matches Kyo's likely songwriting topics. 

I would love to know whether "Hydra" is a random title or is somehow connected to Kyo's comics endorsement (Marvel, anyone?), lol.

2 hours ago, Saishu said:

DEG isn’t doing anything out of the ordinary though. The dynamic shift from quiet to loud/gentle to heavy is a common practice in music in general. Stuff like Unknown.Despair.Lost just reminds me of old school Metallica, where they would have acoustic intros that led into full on thrash songs. Quiet verse/loud chorus was especially popular in the 90s grunge era. 

 

I guess there’s also the factor of VK/jrock bands typically not giving two shits about sticking to one style or genre. One only needs to listen to practically any MUCC album for proof of this. 

Which is also the bane of Mucc's existence or Diru's existence in this case as of nowadays, since any listener could motivate their decision on dropping post-Houyoku MUCC / post-UROBOROS Diru experimentation by pointing out that "there are bands that have much better expertise in doing metalcore, death metal, synth pop, electro rock...".

So as a result, and based on how @Nowhere Girldescribed "exploring various styles" as the prime advantage of Diru or MUCC in your case, these bands technically have no leverage nor unique value assigned by their listeners. So what kind of factors are making their fans revert back to MUCC or Diru of any era without any problems about them changing styles every now and then? Could you really define reckless genre transitions as a part of their value creation? Or is there perhaps something more that makes the band behind metalcore, synthcore, nu metal, post-hardcore and pop schlagers?

1 hour ago, Nowhere Girl said:

Well, you're right, but that's going to be the case with any song. VINUSHKA happens to showcase several different styles, which is what you asked for...

 

Also, DEG has changed quite significantly over the years. There's nothing they're doing now that sounds like JESSICA, for example.

I see.

I do agree about DEG changing significantly over many years, but even with changes like these bands do not ditch certain things completely. With regards to JESSICA, it already belonged to the album that pushed forth more experimentation into their sound. Even in spite of that, punk elements explored on JESSICA were scattered throughout Diru's repertoire and are present even nowadays. So it is not about the overall composition but clues, little jigsaw puzzle pieces that are common inbetween what they were in 1999, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2011 and now.

1 hour ago, fieldsgrow said:

That's what I hoped Arche was going sound like before Rinkaku came out (I really like Rinkaku though). They could have combined their sound on DSS with a ripped off Deathspell Omega sound and it would've been amazing. Though they are a mainstream metal band so I can understand why they followed it up with something more accessible. Only that DSS showed so much potential but left much to be desired and I was hoping the follow up would correct it's flaws. 

 

Arche is alright though.

The fun part here is the "metal" part in their genre definitions being unsolved, since the band themselves never had any specific say on either "rock", "hard rock", or "metal" tags used to describe what they'd play. 

Nor they excluded the possibility to play standard tuning jams one day instead of 7-string djentlemanship. Anyone of us can wish something more specific from these guys, which was also the point of my aforementioned questions.

Are they the kind of musicians who build new things on top of their existing, consistent foundation; or are they just your local jam band who feel like playing something random next because they don't care about constructive musicianship, or they just don't know how to be daring? 

My point was that there is a way on giving an objective outlook on how they'd usually sound instead of using FineBros-like cheap shock values and showing OBSCURE and GARDEN next to each other. They are not avant-garde monsters like Phish, nor Mr. Bungle, nor even Butthole Surfers - of which the latter bands have their sound clearly defined and used to describe sounds of much younger, inspired generations.

13 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

And yet, many still think that DEG's best work is in those first few albums. I would actually argue that they found their voice by MACABRE (the album).

 

As for a song I'd share, that'd be VINUSHKA. It moves from fragile to epic to full hardc0r3 br0074l.

 

Not a fan of Akatsuki, myself. The demo version is fantastic. Album version, not so much.

VINUSHKA is too different from the rest on UROBOROS though, no? As a newcomer song it would make Dir look and sound like a Deathspell Omega/Opeth band to most people, which might not be the case in reality.

It's a good song nonetheless.

Which is also the reason why I asked about distinguishing characteristics that may also affect their direction per each album. In the end they did accept that their first steps up until six Ugly and Vulgar had no specific direction or some kind of leverage that made them different, recognizable from the rest at that time.

If I never knew about Dir en grey but had a certain degree of familiarity with other J-rock acts at that time, I would not be able to associate most of the early 2000s Diru tunes with the band at all. Just one big medley of styles without any specific features that make them "THE Diru" as we know them today. 

Which ONE of the Diru songs would you show to your friend, if you had to explain at least a bit about their trademark sound? Every act, including the most experimental bands, have a batch of songs that comprise most of their distinguishable features. Would "Doukoku to Sarinu" suffice? "Magayasou"? "Akatsuki"? Could those songs be the most Dir En Grey-iest tracks off their repertoire?

How could you guys...

We belong to this fandom though?

This fandom talk is all moot anyway, so let's move on and discuss something else than western sugar mamas, heterosexuals, homosexuals, apachesexuals or people legitimately enjoying Bataar. 

Which features do you guys consider as something that makes Dir en grey the band you'd recognize musically right away? Is it something more than just Kyo or are these features perhaps Die's tremolos, Shinya's playing style, or Toshiya's slapping?

I could barely name things from their latest output that make their sound distinguishable, but WtD, TMOAB and UROBOROS had a lot of things in common imho. 

1 hour ago, Furik said:

 

I don’t think they were televised like on the special when they were mastering Sanjou no Uta. 

 

These demos were from a radio program that I think one of the members was a guest on and played some of the unfinished tracks. 

 

Ill see if I can find them later this weekend when I’m not at work. 

This is the video set I referred to. Sajou prototype riff is being played near the end of the first video.

7 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

I need this so badly.

 

The title DOPING ZONE kinda sounds like DOZING GREEN.

 

Edit: VULGAR demos? WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFJWANHbFJKFJNfFDM<FMAALCNs⌂L5@54◘4ã8ÞF¼J«↔¨////

This is quite legit considering that Dozing Green's Before construction version was timed around the time TMOAB was on its way. It would be naive to buy into DG being a full product of another post-TMOAB session. They already had a song to work and to improve on when they got back to (re)record it.

Are these VULGAR demos related to some of those snippets we've heard on Diru's Masters of Rock (?) special w/ VULGAR recordings? There's a YT video where they demoed a few things and showed how Sajou no Uta for instance was composed.

Those titles popped up on 2ch around the time those aforementioned leaks were in talks (August 2006)

http://mimizun.com/log/2ch/visualb/1155087647/

You could guess already some final titles there since parts of those titles can be found or somehow deducted from their final lyrics. I am quite surprised that they still insisted on starting out with Conceived Sorrow. "Bodaijyu" (meaning "Linden" in Japanese) on the other hand could relate to Namamekashiki's demo version with Shinya's poetry instead of Kyo's rendition, and so on.

By reading some of those comments back then, I might as well believe those are legit.

Because "no one likes happy Dir En Grey, we need despair RAWRRRR".

Unironically liking Yokan, Audrey and Jessica were considered to be one of the deadly sins back in Fukkatsu's heydays, mind you.

Thanks everyone for details and corrections provided. I wonder how they could let that concert title pass if Japan happens to be so sensitive about any artistic representation or interpretation of abortion-related issues for decades.

I could not find any new songs cited on Setlist.fm now that I decided to revisit my claims. Was Utafumi the only new song played after ARCHE or were there other live debuts involved? Normally they could perform a couple or three new songs off their upcoming album like months or even a year beforehand.

They didn't have Japanese-titled tour titles for a while though? I mean ,ever since 2003 (列島激震行脚 FINAL 5 UGLY KINGDOM) they have been stuck with botched Engrish titles akin to UNWAVERING FACT OF TOMORROW and that kind of hot mess.

I wish they could ditch cringey Uroboros-ish taglines for good too...

Anyone can confirm whether " Is this really okay with you? Yes. How many have you had? Just one. I’ve killed countless children. Is this really permissible? I’ll ask again. Is this really okay with you? Are you prepared? Yes. Then let us begin." was a legit title for Diru's Osaka-jo hall live back in 1999?

https://www.setlist.fm/stats/dir-en-grey-43d6c33b.html?tour=Is+this+really+okay+with+you?+Yes.+How+many+have+you+had?+Just+one.+I’ve+killed+countless+children.+Is+this+really+permissible?+I’ll+ask+again.+Is+this+really+okay+with+you?+Are+you+prepared?+Yes.+Then+let+us+begin.

So were the most dedicated Dir translators capable to decipher the meaning of new Karma and Kiri to Mayu if their original versions had more straightforward, explicit lyrics? 

THE IIID EMPIRE and Beautiful Dirt were quite useless to rerecord, since they only expose more flaws in a way how Diru delivers their older songs nowadays. God forbid Kyo would consider adding flat falsettos when they are not needed!

Fukai on the other hand was kind of necessary due to fans requesting the studio take of CoV version for years, but the original is still there and it flows better if anything.

How impressive of them to include superior single versions of their A-sides instead though. 

I wish I could see the actual voting results conducted by Firewall div. to see which B-sides were favored the most.

5 hours ago, blacktooth said:

New tour announced. Or at least I got a ton of tweets. TOUR 18 真世界

"pure world" or something. Not sure because I don't renshuu shimasu my nihingos enough. 

4 hours ago, LIDL said:

Wow, another tour? This start to feel like System Of A Down that toured never endingly so that they feel comfy with each other again before deciding if there's a new album or not.

@blacktooth 真世界 could actually mean "The Real World" (yes, just like that MTV series) if you understood the meaning behind it's on'yomi pronunciation - "Shinsekai" (derived indirectly from "Zhenshijie" which is how one could read the same kanjis/hanzis in Chinese). The fun part here is that this seems to be a wordplay on 新世界 which is also "Shinsekai", and which respectively means "The New World".

@LIDLI don't think Dir would feel like touring nonstop with the same run of songs to be played, since they do already have a share of new songs performed and a lot already recorded and mixed inbetween, no? They need a new "theme" to roll with, which should mean a new album on the shelves sooner or later.

EDIT: the first batch of dates has been released on their OHP

Quote

“TOUR18 真世界(SHINSEKAI)” announced to start in April, 2018!

2018.01.17 SCHEDULE

It has just been announced that DIR EN GREY “TOUR18 真世界(SHINSEKAI)” will be held in April, 2018, starting with a live show limited to OFFICIAL FAN CLUB ｢a knot｣ members. The tour will have DIR EN GREY touring 5 cities all around Japan, for a total of 7 shows.
Tickets sales will start on Jan.22nd (Mon.) with the 1st round of “｢a knot｣ Ticket Presale” (Only ｢a knot｣ members having an active membership by Jan.1st, 2018 are eligible for the 1st ticket presale).
To be eligible for the 2nd round of “｢a knot｣ Ticket Presale” starting on Feb. 14th (Wed.), you need to register a membership (and pay the membership fee) within Jan. 20th (Sat.). Don’t miss this chance and join ｢a knot｣!
 
TOUR18 真世界(SHINSEKAI)
2018/4/16(Mon.)【KANAGAWA】CLUB CITTA’ -｢a knot｣only- [★]
2018/4/18(Wed.)【TOKYO】SHINKIBA STUDIO COAST [★]
2018/4/19(Thu.)【TOKYO】SHINKIBA STUDIO COAST [★]
2018/4/25(Wed.)【OSAKA】NANBA Hatch [★]
2018/4/26(Thu.)【OSAKA】NANBA Hatch [★]
2018/4/28(Sat.)【MIYAGI】Sendai Ginko Hall Izumity21 [★]
2018/5/1(Tue.)【AICHI】Zepp Nagoya [★]

2

17 minutes ago, Asakusa said:

I find it more similar to Dissabled Complexes instead of Phenomenon actually

Phenomenon is not far off from being a sister song to Disabled Complexes though.

According to YT comments the song I linked (2013) is pretty much the combination of these two

Of which the latter belongs to one of Kaoru's all time favorite albums - and he composed Phenomenon btw:

http://diezu.livejournal.com/5488.html

Someone brought this up from another board with regards to Phenomenon:

But Diru will never become another NIN though, no?