Piracy's role in visual kei

[BrenGun 2261]

I think we as fans shouldn't forget.

 

Would we like it if someone would upload your music for free?

I guess the answer would be "NO"

 

That's why I think it would be GOOD. if we would change something.

Why won't we upgrade the sharing rules?

 

Spoiler

 

1:  Not allowing: iTunes world wide releases (unless it's a transcode)
2:  Not allowing Spotify world wide releases 
^ 1&2 (If people are not sure, they can ask someone out of a different country)
3:  National releases (purchase able on CDJapan or Closet Child), as long it's not sold out, no sharing.

3.1: or any webshop who sells also OVERSEAS and use AIRMAIL/SAL as shipping option or FREE SHIPPING above 5000yen .  (This includes Starwave Records)
4: LIVE LIMITED releases; no change in rules, since it's hard to get, let's keep sharing it. (If a band want to sell it, they shall make it easy to purchase) Such releases won't let a band disband. 
5: indie store releases(zeallink, like an edison, little hearts, puresound, brand-x);   NOT sharing unless a release is at least 3 months old or sold out. 
^ includes pursound and brand-x because they do sell worldwide. 

6: If a band disbands, and still drop a (few) releases, it's alright to share it. (At least most bands run out of copies and then their music isn't easy to get anymore)
6.1: music from disbanded bands is alright to share. (As so long it cannot be listened for free(legal) or be purchased digital legal)

^ second handed copies don't count. if you cannot buy a brand new anymore it's simply SOLD out. 

And I guess this won't hurt anybody. Lot's of cd's will be sold out after a while anyway.
And otherwise, if you really really would like to support a band you can purchase it. And if not, well... bad for the band then.  

 

 

You can say Piracy is needed to make a band more popular. However if a band drop out some great songs on YouTube and move their butts to promote themselves including some nice fans sharing their love for them without Jealousy it can go pretty fast. back then look at ADAMS, they got fame in no time. 

If a band is really good they will be noticed. 

 

Beside that, we got some people here who live in Japan. Osaka, Nagoya, Tokyo...
Why won't some of them get the hands together and help others to get some good CD's? without too much extra high FEES.

 

 

I still think we need to change something of the Piracy.
It's simply not good, MH is also known by Japanese users, it's not only we from outside of Japan.
And it's the first source for band promotion, finding news, finding stuff etc.

So if we change things, the vkei world outside of Japan will also change their mind in things.

 

 

and I think more people should read this

 

 

 

Edit: 

Also we live in 2018 now.

Music is already far more easy to purchase. Back in the days it was not easy and it was nice if you could get something for free. It was even "LEGAL" for a long time in a lot of countries and even the longest in Netherlands. And yet "Netherlands" is more hunting the real big boys who share a lot of music or movies. Still at least here in my country, reducing the ways of getting stuff illegal makes people BUY. Look at the PS3/4 games. You can't not get them illegal. And the game industry is doing amazing.

 

Maybe MH should try to collaborate with bands. But then those bands should make music easy for sale and would be more amazing if they would share once a month a free track or something like that. 

However then maybe the DL part should be fully closed?!

But that also would give up good opportunities to discover bands.

After all, where we here for is to discover bands and it doesn't matter that much if we only have a few REAL amazing songs. than a discography of a band with maybe a few REAL liked track's isn't?

 

and we always can keep going with "GHOST" sharing. But then you also should be willing to "GHOST" share it to everyone. and not only to a few favorite people <- if only wanting you better can share it those in an facebook message or something  

But we always could hint other users for (drop a DM then I will share)

 

 

Somehow, after 10 years of MH, I think MH can make a step to a next more LEGAL level. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by BrenGun

[Shmilly 519]

I want to start out with two key points.

 

Firstly, I don't 'support' piracy, but without it there is no doubt that I wouldn't be this involved in the visual kei scene (and possibly probably not even where I am in my life right now, since listening to Japanese music back in JHS is what eventually led to me formally studying the language and now living and working in Japan, but that's a long story for another thread).

 

Secondly, I voted that piracy is instrumental in keeping the scene alive, but I only believe that to be the case in the international fandom. I would argue that it has little to no impact whatsoever on the actual living scene here in Japan, at least in my experience so far.

 

With that said, I'd like to go into a little more detail. Obviously piracy has been existent since the early days of home media - my uncle used to buy pirated VHS tapes of new movies when I was a kid, for example. With the arrival of the internet, and subsequent developments that have drastically improved our capacity to both upload and download data, it has increased the ability and reach of piracy to a global scale. And despite the cherry-picking of various studies to pin the blame for unsuccessful media on the illegal file-sharing community, the evidence shows that for the most part there is little to no impact whatsoever on sales as a result of piracy.

 

The reason that I think piracy is essential for the international visual kei community is simply a matter of exposure. With communities like MH which share the latest news the moment it leaves the artist's mouth at a concert, or the second it's posted on social media or their official website, even the newest and smallest indie visual bands instantly get tens, hundreds, maybe even thousands more people's attention than they expected. But even with that awareness of band activity, there's no promise that the international community will put their money where their ears are and pick up their releases. With inflation increasing the sales price of CDs over the last few years in Japan, and the fact that many small VK bands release music only in independent record stores or even exclusively at concerts, simply buying the music you're interested in from half way around the world becomes a tall order. This is only compounded by the fact that on top of the costs of buying and shipping the item to you, it's likely that you have no prior way of determining whether you will really enjoy a release or get your money's worth. Hence, piracy becomes a method for fans who are willing to shell out for their favourite artists to sample and sift through the latest music to choose exactly what they put their hard-earned money towards.

 

However, this is speaking from a purely international standpoint. The truth of the matter is, domestic artists in Japan are not expecting to rely on international sales to any extent, regardless of the genre. This is particularly true for indies visual kei, which is far more concerned with gathering a dedicated fan base on their home turf who will repeatedly spend money on tickets and goods, where they make a lot more money than the pitiful cut they get on CD sales. Even bands that are aware of their popularity overseas will very rarely have the opportunity or financial security to consider promoting or performing there, especially on an indie label. For anyone short of a major record deal, purchases from abroad are probably like an unexpected bonus, and nothing more.

 

But the main reason I think piracy has little to no effect on the visual kei scene within Japan is simply that I don't think it's as common. In theory Japan has quite strict laws on illegal file-sharing, and the truth of the matter is that VK is not very big even in its home country. The scene was at its peak years ago when the philosophy of the frontrunners was more relevant, and media exposure was higher. Even if someone were to upload a new release, I just don't think there would be that many people to download it. The hardcore gya will jump on the latest release from their favourite artist, and anyone else is probably just not interested.

 

That's not to say that the scene is necessarily dying out though; if anything, the spread of the pre-owned market to online sales and auction sites (looking at you in particular, Mercari and Yahoo, with simple transactions and free accounts) provides a mecca for domestic and international fans alike. In particular rare items like live-distributed singles and signed goods can sell for tens of thousands of yen if the right buyer is on the lookout. It's easier than ever to get hold of VK music, and while the artists themselves don't see any financial benefit from second-hand sales, they do see an increase in exposure. In addition, devoted fans shell out time and again for not only multiple versions of releases, but also goods from clothing and towels to cheki, which are virtually like trading cards to the hardcore bangya. I would argue that the live scene and sale of goods is what really keeps the VK scene afloat, especially at the indie level. If no-one attends a new band's lives, it's far more damaging for them both financially and in terms of reputation than not selling out a 500-copy press of their first single (ignoring recording and production costs, of course).

 

I realise that this post has gone on for far too long now, but in summary: piracy is a necessary evil for the international community, but largely irrelevant to the success of the artists themselves and the scene in Japan.

[nekkichi 6043]

>To record 1 song only can cost you about 200€ 🤗 rent a studio for compose music up to 4000€ or more....
>25€ is still too much? Not worth to pay? 🤭 than you should quit this music scene.

 

this is why bands/artists rely on merch and live-only goods to supplement their income, and nvm every big artist's label pays off radiostations to get exposure for their releases

 

with that being said, if Anna fucking Varney out of all people could somehow crowdsource €100k to record an album with a crew of classically trained musicians within a single year (which didn't even provide access to the final music, it was sold separately), VK could learn something from ha as well if they wanted.

[Shmilly 519]

1 hour ago, nekkichi said:

with that being said, if Anna fucking Varney out of all people could somehow crowdsource €100k to record an album with a crew of classically trained musicians within a single year (which didn't even provide access to the final music, it was sold separately), VK could learn something from ha as well if they wanted.

Funnily enough, AllS (fka ALSDEAD) recently crowdfunded 2 music videos, so I guess if the demand is there and the fans are willing to pay, it could be a viable option for some.

[Ikki 807]

I really don't have much of an opinion on piracy in general.  Piracy has always been the foundation of the Western VK scene since the beginning.  I still remember trying to download Kuroyume and GLAY songs that were ripped at 128kbps on dial-up in 1999 that took over 2 hours to download per song.  I'm pretty sure most of the groups, Japanese or not, I've been into, I probably got into them due to filesharing. 

 

Anymore, I rarely download anything VK related since there's Youtube to sample newer bands.  I'm more likely to illegally download Kpop and Jpop artists's releases than VK ones.  The only things I usually download are lives since when ever I have bought one, I usually only watch it once and then it collects dust on my shelf.  Hell, I had DEG live DVDs I have bought and never even watched to only give them to a friend because I knew she would enjoy them more than I was. Most of the bands I share are either long disbanded or are active and have a large enough fanbase that the single/album was going to get shared sooner or later. 

 

When it comes to purchasing releases, I have an odd way of thinking on how I make a purchase.  I considered myself more of a collector of VK bands than a fan at times.  If I really like the band's sound, it usually translates into me buying the releases new off of Amazon.co.jp or CDJapan.  If the band catches my eye but I don't think they're going to last long, I sometimes try to snag a used copy of their releases until I'm sure the group is going to be sticking around for awhile.  If an album is considered a 'classic' in the VK fandom and I don't like the artist, I will usually try to get a used copy dirt cheap.  

 

It's a bit off topic, but I included why I buy used copies over new copies.
 

Spoiler

 

I know some of people think buying VK releases used is a taboo and just as bad as illegal downloading.  I have gotten in a lot of arguments on this topic over the years with other fans.  A lot of my favorite groups haven't been active in 20-ish years or haven't released anything new in ages.  I also hate buying digital releases of VK bands' music.  So I pretty have to buy used if I want to have a copy of their releases.  When those groups do release something new, I usually try to buy the release new instead of used.  When Ladies Room released their 2016 single, I bought it.  Last year, Sony released a limited run of Aura's VHS tapes as a single DVD that you could only order if you lived in Japan, I had a friend living in Japan ordered me a copy of it.  Pony Canyon released a new greatest hits album for BY-SEXUAL with new masterings of the songs, I jumped on that as soon as I heard about it.  Kamaitachi announced they were releasing a DVD of their last reunion show, I waited forever for it to pop up on a site to preorder it.  Even though he's my least favorite member of Kamaitachi and I don't care much for his non-Kamaitachi projects, anytime Kenzi announces a new release, I usually buy it because I want to support a member of my favorite VK band as all of the other members that were in the group are retired,  more or less.  If any of those early Free-Will Records albums ever get reprinted like they did in the early 2000s, I would shell out the money in a heartbeat.

 

With newer bands, I don't buy new because I don't want to invest in something that I know won't last more than two years.  Once a band hits the third/fourth year mark, I usually start thinking on how much do I really like this band to be committed enough to buy their singles/eps/albums new.  Then I think about on average, how much does one of their releases cost per new release.  Do I like the group enough or have the budget to buy all of the versions of the release?  Usually, I buy one type new and the regular type used.  Does one of the types have a PV included? I like buying the version with the PV new.  What's the pre-order bonus with the release? If there is one, I usually go with CDJapan.  If there isn't, I go with Amazon.co.jp.  If the band isn't well known enough to be on either site, but they have their own webshop, I go with a shopping service instead.  Due to this, I only have 3 VK groups that I'm actively supporting and several groups I would buy a release of if the price is reasonable.

 

 

[BrenGun 2261]

Another thing I think about now is.

Could we maybe try to interview some artist to ask them what they think of (overseas) Piracy?

I believe even under artist the meaning is pretty much different. some hate it others don't care. 

 

 

[ShTon 268]

I think of piracy as necessary evil (Well, at least in case of vk. You don't need that for most of mainstream music). Something you get addicted to, because it's easier to grab that download link instead of spending your money and at some point most of us were more or less guilty here. What I don't like about piracy the most are people, who think they deserve that free stuff and it better be the best quality possible or else they go apeshit crazy. 

[GreatNorthernVK 183]

The international fan base was built on piracy. The same is true for many Western music scenes as well.

 

For the longest time, exposure to alternative forms of music was limited to subculture participation (which had various barriers, including age, location, cultural background, gate keepers, etc).

 

Before the introduction of file sharing and social media, most people listened to what was put in front of them (radio, television, albums that they’re friends and family already owned). Major labels largely controlled what was put out to media channels (and still do, especially in Japan).

 

What file sharing did was give people (and young people in particular) a chance to discover music that they would have never had the opportunity to listen to before. Who can just blindly buy multiple releases in the punk/hardcore/metal/goth/international section of the CD shop? It’s not like the radio or MTV ever played those bands anyways.

 

It’s even more ridiculous to expect those young people to blindly buy Japanese releases for two to three times the price of a domestic CD.

 

The only artists that are feeling the pinch from file sharing are the ones who already benefit from heavy major label promotion. There’s no excuse for not knowing what those artists sound like, because they’re *everwhere*. Restaurants, the mall, the gym, every radio station, pop-up ads. Or more specifically, their *labels* are the ones feeling the pinch. 

 

TL;DR: Piracy increases exposure for bands that never would have been promoted by mainstream media channels, and can only increase revenues for alternative artists at the expense of the pop artists that those file sharers would have been listening to if not for the increased exposure of said alternative artists.

[Zeus 7997]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to vote and share your thoughts. We had 69 people submit a vote for this poll, which has to make this one of our most popular polls of all time! It is intriguing how little the hive mind opinion of our scene has changed within the last ten years. Over 75% of us believe that piracy is still a necessary evil, 72% of us cite piracy as one of the main factors of engagement retention, and that a whopping 60% of members believe Monochrome Heaven would get worse if downloads and piracy were to disappear overnight. I tend to agree with the majority, but I also agree with the minority. Things haven't gotten any easier to acquire legitimately as a sailor of the high seas since the turn of the century, and it doesn't look like that's going to change anytime soon, but I'm reluctant to force sweeping changes that I don't fully understand to an ecosystem which is one of the few remaining and active ties to the scene. On the other hand, we provide a valuable service through piracy that record companies couldn't throw enough money at to replicate, and the answers you all gave to the poll show that.

 

So this is what I propose we do next, just to see how things play out. The GazettE is releasing a new album, "NINTH", on 2018-06-13. Let us not share this album here until 2018-06-27. Ideally, as a scene we wouldn't share it at all, but I have no control over anything not posted here. If you purchase it on your own, please refrain from sharing here, but you can write reviews and openly talk about it. If you never planned on buying it, you may have to wait an additional two weeks. What I am interested in seeing is just how much our piracy impacts sales, and how much higher CD sales are if we don't immediately put it on the internet for free the day it comes out. Maybe Ruki will even make a twitter comment about it so we can get some deeper perspective. We can do this with two or three more hot releases, and then come back to discuss this again with some more information. I have some thoughts about how this will go, but I will save them until after the experiment is complete.

Thanks for reading.