Unclean vocals and none singing voices

[blackdoll 907]

Lets talk unclean vocals from vk or none vk, screams growls, pigsqeals, sqeals shouts, yells, whispers and whatever else you can think of thats used. Who do you love, like, love? Do you think it shold be all singing and unclean vocals sould die off? how do you like them used, what does make you feel? do you think a band should use more, less. Do you do them yourself.

 

Me i love unclean vocals, i think they are needed even if they arnt as powerful as some outside bands. I really love it when "cute" band use them like  Ichigo69 in Hakusho  paradies (he needs to start useing them in vow), aicle, ayabie and an cafe in 3p (so mad thats the only one). Dont like it when the harsh vocals and instumental don't match like the harsh vocals are too weak for the track, or the track is to weak for the vocals. Sometimes i'll only like a band for their harsh vocals (unsraw,).  love the guys who can scream, pig sqeal, and growl good (lustknot., arise in stability, FALILV, re:dis). love being cought off gard like with the raid. (he is a badass). love when the play with it (mejibray - sadistgate). maya in LM.C - metally sounded good. and if they are really good I'll try to figure out how to do them, (cant figure out llll -ligro-'s)

 

My #1 harsh vocals go to Yuuki(Lycaon) for his earlyer work with screams in old Lycaon Enslavement beauty, royal order, and **88** are my fav. since new Lycaon isnt that hard he doesnt sound that harsh, which is smart. also notice he sqeals love those. And even after hearing brutal vocals from outside japan he still remains best. Top growlers and lows for me are from Ice/eros (BFN/xodiak), Otogi (awoi), Mao (sadie that might change because he starting to sound like kyo,i didnt like the ones in Madrigal De Maria) also like harsh vocals like signal ( screams only up to chain), LIV'ERT, grieva/reload, dio  depain, nega, kiryu, megaromania, avelcain, Royz, quinstet, meth, Artema, wings work, aoi from ayabie etc. best female harsh are decola hopping and  XECSNOIN dont like the ones like sel'm (unless they are done good like since 1889), the gaztte and div. D.i.D just seems random , but i dont mind as long as he is not grrrgaagara. NB is good too but i dont listen to them much.

 

 R-shitei, and existtrance need to come back.

[lichtlune 915]

I won't write a post that long but I'll just say Mikaru of Dio - Distraught Overlord has the best VK growl I've ever heard. Nothing in my eyes compares. UnsraW and some others are really nice too. I feel these types of vocals can add a certain emotion that singing can't always give. Things like pain, anger, etc are better portrayed in harsher vocals. 

[blackdoll 907]

I won't write a post that long but I'll just say Mikaru of Dio - Distraught Overlord has the best VK growl I've ever heard. Nothing in my eyes compares. UnsraW and some others are really nice too. I feel these types of vocals can add a certain emotion that singing can't always give. Things like pain, anger, etc are better portrayed in harsher vocals. 

I agree, ill add rage, and maybe madness.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

[blackdoll 907]

aikaryu has the best high screams to me (nice growls too)

[JukaForever 758]

Maybe because I have dabbled in NA rock with harsh vocals already during my teens but I find them now quite boring and non-dynamic for me to keep listening to bands that rely on them a lot or strictly. It's quite the turn off when a "vocalist" can't actually sing and just do harsh vocals most of the time. I now prefer a balance of strong singing and harsh ever since I was captivated by Mejibray and Signal when I first got into them. I am in the hunt for more now but there is so much more interesting and dynamic artists out there that is hard to really justify listening to bands with only growls, screams, etc for vocals no matter the instrumentals

[Senedjem 510]

I wonder what it is about VK musicians that makes them think they can pull of harsh vox with 0 training prior. 

I've never heard harsh vocalists so underwhelming and half-assed ANYWHERE else. Even the castrated yelping vocals in your scene kid cousin's screamo band probably sound better than 99% of the shitty 'metal' vk bands floating around.

Don't even get me started on a certain melodramatic bald&bold ex-vk frontman who seems to think he can pass off mouth farting into his hand as a death growl.

[Champ213 1858]

Removed off-topic posts. If you don't want to add to the discussion - don't post, thanks.

[blackdoll 907]

@senedjem don't think vk was ment to be brutal if thats what your talking about.  its better than the fart pig growls used in some slam and gindcore. and this isnt only about vk its open to all japan.

[nullmoon 784]

And yet Nekkichi can say whatever? Makes sense.

[RpgRiser 70]

I love Hiro's(Nocturnal Bloodlust) harsh vocals,to me,they're the best!

 

Still can't figure out how to do high pitched screams without hurting my throat a little ._.

Any tips?

[blackdoll 907]

I love Hiro's(Nocturnal Bloodlust) harsh vocals,to me,they're the best!

 

Still can't figure out how to do high pitched screams without hurting my throat a little ._.

Any tips?

high screams took me a while, all i can say is you just got to feel it. maybe practice will listening to him. my turn cant figure out how to make my grows sound like his, got any tips?

[RpgRiser 70]

I'll try,thanks^^

 

Etooooo...

I don't really know how to explain it...

Try to take a deep voice(like when a guy is trying to seduce a girl) but exaggerate it,then try to scream with this deep voice,but by pushing less air than a normal scream,and don't open your mouth too wide.

[Zeus 7997]

Harsh vocals in visual kei are never going to happen. Bands need to stop forcing it to happen for the sake of being brutal, because those without the proper training are just fucking their throats up and it doesn't sound good. I'm reluctant to call them harsh vocals because a good majority of the time it's either screaming or grunting. Out of the few that can, the top of the list is easily Hiro from Nocturnal Bloodlust. He's the only vocalist in the scene that can do what he does. Akane from D.I.D. is second with the squeals, which bonsai and I have verified he can pull off live.

Why is that important? Any type of ranking of who does what better than whom has to take into account the live performance aspect of it. The mark of a vocalist that has truly mastered vocal fry or gutturals are being able to pull it off live and most visual kei vocalists can't hit the right singing notes live. None of them ever nail the gutturals. They always sound embarrassing and not at all like they're supposed to. Even the "best" harsh vocalists in visual kei are just barely passable from a technique standpoint, and that's when they record in the studio and can compensate for their vocalist's shortcomings.

[blackdoll 907]

^^ maybe i should change it to unclean vocals? and like i said, i dont think they have brutal in mind when they are doing whatever they are doing.

[relentless 254]

I wonder what it is about VK musicians that makes them think they can pull of harsh vox with 0 training prior. 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. I enjoy screams ("harsh vocals") if they're employed properly, or in the right kind of music for it.

 

 

There's still immense skill involved in something as "basic" as screams and growls (especially doing so non stop over the course of a two hour setlist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5WHCxxXYSI); but in VK and VK-related groups, it's more often misused.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD_ecPQ-SgY -- Out of nowhere this band begins using death growls, and it shows. Also refer to Sadie's high screams and growls -- though at least Mao is slightly better than Wataru.

 

 

These bands could be better at what they did, if they put more effort into what they were doing. Growls are difficult, and if you're not going to put the effort out (see: Ruki from the GazettE), then there's no point in misusing them.

[blackdoll 907]

http://youtu.be/DCiMUc7YGus

 

sounds the same as the cd to me though he skips some parts

[relentless 254]

That reminds me: using backing tracks for screams is probably just as bad as not being able to scream at all.

[blackdoll 907]

take vk over this

Spoiler

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by blackdoll

[blackdoll 907]

lets keep it japanese

http://youtu.be/8DO_CDU6eJM

Spoiler

 

 

http://youtu.be/zsZ7LAc8jr0

Edited April 22, 2017 by blackdoll

[VkBrutaliaN 1890]

very int. Topic! well imo the Vk Scene has the best vocalists (no matter if singing, screaming, growling, what ever the f****) on the planet. and here's why: all Vk bands just do it the way they want! they don't give a shit if there's a certain technique to make it "right". sure ever now and then someone is getting Trouble with his throat but compared to how many bands there are its really not that much as most People try to make it look like. and because Vk singers pull everything off the way they feel like the screams/Growls etc. Sound soo much heavier and more appealing to me cuz for example american deathcore or death metal bands... - if you listend to 3-5 bands you know them all! not necesserily because of the Music but for the voice! every guy uses the same screaming and growling technique and therefore they Sound the same - thats at least my opinion. and don't say like: you have to listen to more U.S. bands etc.... i was a deathcore/death metal etc. fan for about 3-4 years. then i discovered Vk and so for me Vk is def the best Music ever.

[Pandabear 414]

Yeah, I'm one of the people who loves unclean vocals. Ever since I got into metal it's something I highly enjoy. I feel like for most people who have never heard it, it might take some time to full appreciate and enjoy the technique. I used to not like unclean vocals at all when I was younger. I think it was my attraction to melodic metalcore bands like Killswitch Engage and All That Remains that made me appreciate the raw power, passion and immense technique involved in being able to pull off growls. I gravitated toward those bands because of the instrumentation and the singers awesome melodic cleans, but overtime grew to like the screams/growls. 

 

Now I enjoy all types of extreme metal and usually any form of unclean vocals. I think it is highly under rated how much technique and practice is involved in pulling proper screams and growls. There are numerous techniques and many different types of unclean vocals; grunts, death growls, death shrieks, pig squels, the more raw black metal vocals, etc. These may not be everyone's cup of tea, but they require endurance, good technique, presence, timing and in some cases good articulation. 

 

Strictly speaking for Japan, there are some decent vocalists who use unclean vocals, but they mostly are outside of VK. For some reason Vk houses a lot of terrible unclean vocalists. Unclean vocals are suppose to be powerful, brutal and harsh, but Vk vocalists only hit the harsh quality and it's in the making my ears bleed type of way. I get not all vocalists out there are trying to be have the most BROOtal sounding vox, but there still should be some type of power behind it. With the majority of vk, they just sound half assed, wimpy and plain terrible as a result of bad technique. As mentioned before the only vocalist who actually does it right is the vocalist for Nocturnal Bloodlust. All these other wanna be metal vk vocalists should pay attention and learn a thing or two from him.  

[blackdoll 907]

very int. Topic! well imo the Vk Scene has the best vocalists (no matter if singing, screaming, growling, what ever the f****) on the planet. and here's why: all Vk bands just do it the way they want! they don't give a shit if there's a certain technique to make it "right". sure ever now and then someone is getting Trouble with his throat but compared to how many bands there are its really not that much as most People try to make it look like. and because Vk singers pull everything off the way they feel like the screams/Growls etc. Sound soo much heavier and more appealing to me cuz for example american deathcore or death metal bands... - if you listend to 3-5 bands you know them all! not necesserily because of the Music but for the voice! every guy uses the same screaming and growling technique and therefore they Sound the same - thats at least my opinion. and don't say like: you have to listen to more U.S. bands etc.... i was a deathcore/death metal etc. fan for about 3-4 years. then i discovered Vk and so for me Vk is def the best Music ever.

im with you. i like vk and none vk uncleans. though i dont listen to bands from america, i do EURO, south america, asia.

[blackdoll 907]

@Pandabear what bands from japan are you talking about, im always looking for more.

[blackdoll 907]

in term of vk. dont think of vk as metal, think of it as vk music. even if you think they suck, vk would be dirt without them.

 

bad

 

Spoiler

 

 

good

http://youtu.be/QKzCfuXUxfA

Edited April 22, 2017 by blackdoll