New VK vs. Old VK

[miyuu 40]

are you saying i should stop now because this is spam.  you shouldn't ignore people when you don't agree. but is this case i agree is spam .what. aren't you having fun if you are bored.seeing us in a ridiculous conversation.

anyway. i like kiyoharu the way he is.

(i thought he looked like screw too a little.xD .you said that about Duff didn't you. byou is pretty but not in my favorite bands though.especially lately.)

 

also i am not cutting the  "you are" i am going to say whatever i want. i do know you by your answers everytime . yuki  fangirling/fanboying

[Flash-Fab-Supernova 88]

Ok. I'm going to break it down for you kids.

 

THE ONLY NEW BANDS THAT MATTER:

THE KIDDIE

BugLug

DIV

 

End of discussion.

/wins thread

[blackdoll 907]

are you saying i should stop now because this is spam.  you shouldn't ignore people when you don't agree. but is this case i agree is spam .what. aren't you having fun if you are bored.seeing us in a ridiculous conversation.

anyway. i like kiyoharu the way he is.

(i thought he looked like screw too a little.xD .you said that about Duff didn't you. byou is pretty but not in my favorite bands though.especially lately.)

 

also i am not cutting the  "you are" i am going to say whatever i want. i do know you by your answers everytime . yuki  fangirling/fanboying

 

no you only know somethings i like/love and dislike because what you said i was was wrong in that last one (since idk if you said it before).

[sai 868]

Alright, this is not a fucking therapy session. Stay on topic, and with that I mean the discussion we had earlier (the influence of glam metal/rock in visual kei) or any other topic related to the statement "New VK vs. Old VK". Everyone's free to disagree and discuss there, as we like to promote healthy discussion. Whether or not blackdoll worships Lycaon, or if Miyuu has a degree in psychologic analysis is not relevant, so drop that for now. Irrelevant/trolling posts will from now on be deleted.

[blackdoll 907]

old school hypocritical pricks

In 2008, Kirito vocalist of Pierrot and Angelo said "Now it’s more like people are dressing up a certain way because they want to be visual kei or look visual kei. They are doing it to look like others instead of doing it to look different. This is obviously very different from when we started out more than ten years ago."

Sugizo of Luna Sea expressed concern in 2010 that "They cannot make good sounds and music is more like a hobby for them. I cannot feel their soul in the music"

 Dir en grey bassist Toshiya said in 2010 "To be honest, when we first started and we were wearing a lot of makeup on stage and stuff, there were a lot of bands doing that at the time in Japan, and people thought it was cool. But not anymore, ha ha." and added "The music was so unique, too — bands like X Japan. At that time, there weren’t any two bands that sounded alike; these days everyone sounds exactly the same."

Kenzi of Kamaitachi, The Dead Pop Stars and Anti Feminism commented in 2009 that "Back in the day, there were bands, but people would try to do things differently. Nowadays, there’s one band, and everyone copies off of them."

 

 

I thought it was really pathetic that they felt had to open their mouth and dis new school like that(i can see fans doing that). I bet their all mad with jealous/envy that they didn't have modern stuff. and its funny how they act like that they are so original. i wouldn't be surprised if they ever got spat on. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_kei if they never said that i guess my bad.

[Flash-Fab-Supernova 88]

1. Everything those old schoolers say is true. VK is in a period of stagnance run by money and looking cute to grab the tweens who want drag queens to drool over.

 

2. VK music was COMPLETELY different back then than what it is now. The music had diverse sounds rather than the same old shit being rehashed over and over. Visual Kei has become a conglomerate of pumping out over produced over done tacky bitches.

 

3. How are they being hypocritical? Their bands could never be easily compared to the sound of another. Now almost all VK bands are just overdone copypasta. And it's the TRUTH. You just don't want to accept it because you aren't mature enough yet to see it. But don't worry, you'll get there soon. We've all been in your position of haughty egoistic opinions. 

 

4. Calling them pricks and saying they should be spat on shows you are wildly immature and need to sit back and take a deep breath and actually THINK before you type. Especially when you are insulting the forefathers of your supposed loved genre of music. With out any of those "pricks" there wouldn't be VK. 

 

5. Anything Pierrot, Dir en Grey, Luna Sea, Kenzi did were all VASTLY different than the generic manufactured VK that is running rampant in the market today. Maybe I'll make an infographic that will show you the lines of descent between these bands and the new acts that are stinking up the place with their shoddy guitar riffs, clang-bang drumming, and cartoon styled vox.

 

666. Get some salve for that bruised ego of yours if you get upset over the opinions of others. You can't change them. And if ANYONE has a say on what VK has become it's definitely the people who laid down the ground work for what is here today.

[blackdoll 907]

1. Everything those old schoolers say is true. VK is in a period of stagnance run by money and looking cute to grab the tweens who want drag queens to drool over.

 

2. VK music was COMPLETELY different back then than what it is now. The music had diverse sounds rather than the same old shit being rehashed over and over. Visual Kei has become a conglomerate of pumping out over produced over done tacky bitches.

 

3. How are they being hypocritical? Their bands could never be easily compared to the sound of another. Now almost all VK bands are just overdone copypasta. And it's the TRUTH. You just don't want to accept it because you aren't mature enough yet to see it. But don't worry, you'll get there soon. We've all been in your position of haughty egoistic opinions. 

 

4. Calling them pricks and saying they should be spat on shows you are wildly immature and need to sit back and take a deep breath and actually THINK before you type. Especially when you are insulting the forefathers of your supposed loved genre of music. With out any of those "pricks" there wouldn't be VK. 

 

5. Anything Pierrot, Dir en Grey, Luna Sea, Kenzi did were all VASTLY different than the generic manufactured VK that is running rampant in the market today. Maybe I'll make an infographic that will show you the lines of descent between these bands and the new acts that are stinking up the place with their shoddy guitar riffs, clang-bang drumming, and cartoon styled vox.

 

666. Get some salve for that bruised ego of yours if you get upset over the opinions of others. You can't change them. And if ANYONE has a say on what VK has become it's definitely the people who laid down the ground work for what is here today.

 

1) lil girls were faning over those ugly alieans back then, even paid just to sit in the same room as them.

 

2) diverse sound my ass click on a bunch of old school songs on yt and it gets repetitive and you can notice the similarities also refer too 'http://monochrome-heaven.com/index.php?/topic/22710-inspiration-where-does-vk-find-it/ (i believe they were mentioned)

 

3) exactly almost, did they say that? nooo! with deg and angelo look at them now, dir en grey wanna be core changing the tuning, and angelo just sounds like some rock band. also refer to above and http://monochrome-heaven.com/index.php?/topic/25825-bands-that-remind-you-of-visual-kei/ too

 

4) i said that calmly, i simply don't like hypocrites and with them it leaves a bad taste hence the spit. forfathers are dead. think of it how the evil student kills his master. like you said they don't sound alike so really who gives a fuck.

 

5) keep telling yourself that

 

Im good why would i get brusies over something i said was pathetic. i could understand if they were the first to do rock/metal and were totally original but they were not.

 

VK sound and looks may have changed but its still the same. there are the good ones, some that stand out and the ones that don't. They should have kept that in mind.

 

another funnything is adams wants too jump on this band wagon and act like they are so original. 

[Tetora 625]

I think you both have good points and opinions, no need to fight over it, the argument was good enough without throwing in shots to immaturity and ego.

 

I think it is good to have elders opinions on things, if they are agreeable or not. They have a certain passion for their music and the landscape of Japanese rock, just as you do, Blackdoll. Even if they see things differently than you, they are speaking from the same kind of love that you are, they just have love for different things, and see those as important.

 

I think to dismiss all of current VK is a little brash, and a lot of us disagree with that, esp. when those statements come from an era many of us loved, and where many VK fans were made (09-10).

 

I think business-wise, VK stagnated after Luna Sea and X Japan started phasing out, but even then there were a few top bands who were huge, and many smaller bands without as much revenue.

 

Music wise, I can find great VK music from every year, even today, I feel like the quality has never dropped off, styles and looks have dropped in populaity, but we have constant waves of great bands coming in that are far from generic or plain copies.

 

There were always generic bands and copies, and it is debatable that the VK elders opinions on copying and being over-produced are very valid, as Blackdoll put it, it certainly is hypocritical when:

 

X Japan, Luna Sea, Buck-Tick, Color were all heavily influenced by different Rock genres and styles from America and Europe / UK.

 

Dir En Grey were very heavily influenced by older bands, and even their band name and stage names are products of their environment.

 

X Japan was produced to hell and back by their studio and Yoshiki, who was a perfectionist.

Luna Sea had huge production quality, and got more and more into almost cinematic album sounds and musical atmospheres.

Dir en Grey may come in with heavier sounds, and rough around the edge tone, but they got their start with Yoshiki producing them, their releases using special booklets, writings and pictures to attract attention, and the fact that all of their demo`s sound vastly different than the studio product after an engineer and producer get their hands on them.

 

As for the fan-girl thing, that has always been the case for music and most media, starting with Bards in the middle-ages to Frank Sinatra and how the studio system really took off, to The Beatles, who are the most revered band of all time yet got over by trying to pack in young girls, and pipe in the sounds of girls screaming to incite the crowd to follow along and produce `BeatleMania`. Then Rock Bands that followed such as Led Zeppelin, to Glam Metal etc...

 

The fanbase has always had packs of rabid fan-girls, that is how the business is, and the gender or hysteria of a fanbase, as well as the bands branding, is no indication of musical quality.

Yoshiki still plays the piano with an orchaestra behind him to girls crying in the crowd to this day, far from `pop music crap`.

 

There was probably some other things I wanted to say, but whatever, I forget.

[miyuu 40]

I t

 

Music wise, I can find great VK music from every year, even today, I feel like the quality has never dropped off, styles and looks have dropped in populaity, but we have constant waves of great bands coming in that are far from generic or plain copies.

 

 

who do you think today? i genuinely ask. i want to know people's opinion on this. what's your opinion. what bands

[Tetora 625]

who do you think today? i genuinely ask. i want to know people's opinion on this. what's your opinion. what bands

Girugamesh, Versailles, Kamijo, Sid, Unite, Div, Alsdead, D.I.D., Miyavi, Aoi, SuG, Matenrou, D Out, Kra, Dog in the PWO, Bug Lug, Lillith, LMC and more have all put out releases I would range from Good to Great in the last year or two, some are among my favorite albums and singles of all time.

A lot of acts that people seem to find harder to take seriously, for sure, but I think the music speaks for itself.

[Gaz 1097]

1) lil girls were faning over those ugly alieans back then, even paid just to sit in the same room as them.

 

2) diverse sound my ass click on a bunch of old school songs on yt and it gets repetitive and you can notice the similarities also refer too 'http://monochrome-heaven.com/index.php?/topic/22710-inspiration-where-does-vk-find-it/ (i believe they were mentioned)

 

3) exactly almost, did they say that? nooo! with deg and angelo look at them now, dir en grey wanna be core changing the tuning, and angelo just sounds like some rock band. also refer to above and http://monochrome-heaven.com/index.php?/topic/25825-bands-that-remind-you-of-visual-kei/ too

 

4) i said that calmly, i simply don't like hypocrites and with them it leaves a bad taste hence the spit. forfathers are dead. think of it how the evil student kills his master. like you said they don't sound alike so really who gives a fuck.

 

5) keep telling yourself that

 

Im good why would i get brusies over something i said was pathetic. i could understand if they were the first to do rock/metal and were totally original but they were not.

 

VK sound and looks may have changed but its still the same. there are the good ones, some that stand out and the ones that don't. They should have kept that in mind.

 

another funnything is adams wants too jump on this band wagon and act like they are so original. 

ono not this shit again. 

blackdoll, please, stop being an ignorant kid and trying to pin on your bullshit to others. you won't go too far with all those ridiculous arguments of yours. respect people's opinions and maybe your opinion will also be respected. 

 

and who the fuck stole flash-fab-supernova's account? curious to know, really.

[Flash-Fab-Supernova 88]

LOL no one stole my account? xD

[Ikna 1225]

Both parties sure have points, but what bugs me more is that so many people paint the "elders" of the scene as narcistic assholes who are jealosuy of other bands and who try to overestimate their own success. Because his is not true. Of what should the elders be jealous? And why? After all, groups like LUNA SEA, KJamaitachi, X Japan and Pierrot were extremely popular and influential on the genre. It wouldn't really make sense if they were jealous of all these bands in the VK scene that started out (in one point of history) as their copy bands. New Visual kei is vastly different from old VK, but if you trace back the history of any modern band, epecially big bands like the Gazette, you will always end at LUNA SEA and their peers from that time.

Also I am sure that most modern VK musicians are aware of the influence those old bands had. I am sure too that they all admire their elders. Therefore painting the elders as ignorant, envious assholes is pretty mean and not right. Also: why aren't they allowed to give their own opinion on VK? They were pretty much the creators, the fathers of VK. If it wasn't for them, VK wouldn't even be a thing nowadays. So they have all the reason to talk about it as they want. You don't have to agree with them, you don't even need to listen to them. It doesn't hurt you either that most of them disllike what their "baby" has grown into. I don't really understand how sensible one can be when the opinion of one musician makes you so angry that you have to talk bad about them. But maybe I am just growing sick and tired of people banging their heads against each other, just because their precious Kyo has said something about VK which they didn't like. (Also sure that in at least 20 years the popular VK bands of today will say the same about the next generation of VK bands)

And on a side note: LUNA SEA and Co. were definitely original, at least in their time span, when VK wasn't really thing and not many bands played in this style. In my opinion they are even original today. There may have been a lot of copy cats, but no other band actually reached the same level they had. Their impact on the japanese music scene was pretty big too, and wasn't just limited to futire Visual kei, but probably japanese rock music in general. I doubt that Sugizo is envious of "modern stuff" as their music is timeless and perfect as it is. And show me any modern day VK band that has reached the same legendary status, influence and fame that LUNA SEA have, please. And I am saying this as someone who isn't such a big fan of them. But I am not an igorant idiot and claim that they are a forgettable band who didn't pull of anything.

(I may agree with the statement about Angelo, but not Dir en grey. The latter don't even have any connection to VK anymore, so comparing their current stylistic direction with the stagnation of today's VK scene is far-fetched. And them playing their old songs form time to time doesn't really count and doesn't make them VK)

[blackdoll 907]

 They were pretty much the creators, the fathers of VK. If it wasn't for them, VK wouldn't even be a thing nowadays.

 well statoshi is inspired by slash, Yuuki-sama's mother said he always loved to sing (don't know about the rest). also the point of make up and stuff is to attract girls. so all that really had to happen was for some Japanese rock/metal players to see the more extreme k-pop groups and take from them and mix it up a bit then boom host kei, sexy kei, or kawaii kei (which is like modern visual kei). for karma he could take that and mix it with a horror movie he saw.

 

idk about grieva though

 

Edit: dahhh i totally forgot anime, so much hotness there. cosplay kei?

 

@gaz i made the right choice with you

[Yuuze 49]

 well statoshi is inspired by slash, Yuuki-sama's mother said he always loved to sing (don't know about the rest). also the point of make up and stuff is to attract girls. so all that really had to happen was for some Japanese rock/metal players to see the more extreme k-pop groups and take from them and mix it up a bit then boom host kei, sexy kei, or kawaii kei (which is like modern visual kei). for karma he could take that and mix it with a horror movie he saw.

 

idk about grieva though

 

Edit: dahhh i totally forgot anime, so much hotness there. cosplay kei?

 

I'm sorry, but are you on drugs? 'cause nothing you said makes even half a sense otherwise.

[blackdoll 907]

I'm sorry, but are you on drugs? 'cause nothing you said makes even half a sense otherwise.

if the bands where meant to be they would be regardless of the "fathers." modern visual kei looks more like k-pop and anime with movie influence (themes) than old school so it could derived from that if old school never existed. and i threw some names in for for what they might have called it.

 

get it now or you still need help?

[Zeus 7997]

if the bands where ment to be they would be regardless of the "fathers." modern visual ke look more like k-pop and anime with movie influence thnn old school so it could derived from that if old school never existed. and then i threw some names in for for what they might have called it.

 

get it now or you still need help?

Nothing you are saying makes sense anymore.

[blackdoll 907]

Nothing you are saying makes sense anymore.

oh well i give up i guess haha

[lichtlune 915]

We've all talked about early 90s/00s but I'm really starting to miss the era of about 2004-2010. I feel like this was another golden age of a lot of great bands which will hold the test of time. I'm sure you guys could give some other examples but I figured I'd share some of my favorites from that time. 

 

The gazette of old days were very good and a definite high point of that era. 

 

 

And Nightmare I think got a lot of fans into Japanese music back when Deathnote was big. Definitely were a big part for me.

 

 

UnsraW were another favorite of mine and I was sad to see them go. I think they deserved more videos and attention.

 

 

 

Early ScreW

 

 

Honorable mentions, Skull, VanessA, Early Versailles, Phantasmagoria, DIO, Kagrra, and many others. 

 

 

Whether or not the music is "better" is subjective but I will say one thing. I think a major flaw of newer vk and a lot of jrock music in general is production. I don't know if their equipment is worse, the mixing is worse,  or a combination of both but a lot of music from that era just sounds better. The bass and drums are punching, the music is felt, and they aren't so dull. There's a lot of power and emotion in it and it shows. There has been a lot of greater recent bands but their sound just doesn't match up with their talent I think. I can't be the only one who feels this way can I? Generally I just feel the music and videos were recorded and distributed better.

 

I understand that the scene has to change but I feel like the future has become too overproduced and too synthesized. The bands don't really sound like bands to me anymore. 

[Ikna 1225]

^ well, there are quite a few bands who sound like they could be from that era. It‘s not so obscure as actual 90s style oldschool bands. See DEZERT, Kuroyuri to kage, Gossip, AvelCain, Crimson Shiva, Sibilebashir, etc. The 00s sound hasn‘t completely died out yet. In fact, some of the bands of this era managed  to survive way into the early 2010s. I remember there were still enough Gazette copycats around in 2010. True it‘s slowly starting to fade away as Metalcore has become the next big thing, but a few bands still clinge to it.

 

Being a hopeless nostalgic I can understand where you are coming from, but can‘t agree 100%. The style has changed and the scene is pumping out one Royz-clone after another, but it would be wrong to idealize the past and say, that everything was better back then. The video and production quality seems to be the scapegaot in most discussions, but honestly: it wasn‘t as good as we claim. That doesn‘t mean that all PVs in the 90s and 00s were Matina-style low budget crap filmed on a shaky handcam with the band dancing around in the forest or wrapping themselves in toilet paper, but there wasn‘t as much budget as today. PVs nowadays look a lot better, because the technology may have become more affordable.

 

I also don‘t think that the production has gotten worse (it can‘t be worse than the ‘production’ some obscure VK bands had in the 90s when they recorded their songs in a 5m2 bathroom), maybe their instrumental just happen to sound bad. One thing I noticed with many indies VK bands emerging since the early 00s were the boring 3 chord (or less) riffs. Those were particulary bad in some low budget Nu Metal bands (plus half assed growls). My main beef with modern VK is that the bands want to play Nu Metal or Metalcore so badly, but either don‘t have the skill or the will to learn it. I am not an expert on this issue, since I am not really a big Metal fan, but I am sure that 90% of these VK bands don't even scratch on the surface of what are good growls or ‘harsh vocals’. I really can’t stand listening to random or reptitive guitar slamming and growls and screams so bad it gives me a headache. Which is the main reason why I stay away from this music (even though I listen to AvelCain and Karma‘s voice sometimes exhibits the same problem. I then often just skip the song or part…)

[lichtlune 915]

I think the only way the videos look better is with effects, better font, things like that but other than that old videos seemed way better to me. They also seemed to have an actual concept and weren't all filmed indoors. Just look at that Gazette pv or example. The setting is so unique. I haven't seen anything like that too much to be honest. Usually they're filmed in a simple white room or a very small rented out space with cheap props. I feel that videos are very underrated in the effect they can create. Visual Kei is supposed to be "visual" after all so you'd think videos would be more important. 

 

I agree that a lot of visual kei bands simply don't know what they're doing in regards to heavier music. I think because a lot of the time they are just following a trend. I don't guess they really care to accurately represent these musical styles so much. 

 

(I'm enjoying Crimson Shiva btw)

[blackdoll 907]

from  that era

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lf4NeH06Wg

and you know who else

[blackdoll 907]

old school riffage right?

 

 

Genre : Progressive Metal/Mathcore

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

^ that vaguely reminds me of

 

[kamijosick 29]

is necesary ? old vk is best.