New VK vs. Old VK

[Gaz 1097]

Neo Visual Kei 

 

never heard about it. tell me more please

[Naaaaani 1173]

Visual Kei is dead since ~2004-2005

[Biopanda 2675]

VK died when people stopped dressing like nazis. No nazis, no VK.

[blackdoll 907]

VK died when people stopped dressing like nazis. No nazis, no VK.

 

 

so vk is not dead.

 

Oh yeah so later baiser sounds like rentrer en soi, so any old school like rentrer en soi is good.

[Flash-Fab-Supernova 88]

never heard about it. tell me more please

What, you never listened to MYV?

[Gaz 1097]

@blackdoll you made my day today again lol thanks <3

 

@maiku yes i did D: so did he invent this subgenre or what?

[Champ213 1858]

I have seen the label "neo visual kei" being thrown around a few times, but everyone seems to mean something different by it. Some mean a very specific style of modern vk, some just mean any vk band formed after ca. 2003/2004. Seems to be a pretty useless label, such as it is.

[Biopanda 2675]

No, you see... the new bands are neo neo visual kei and the bands that come after that will be neo neo neo visual kei. It's simple, really.

[Champ213 1858]

In 10 years, when neo visual kei will no longer be new, can I then call it "kote neo kei"?

[Gaz 1097]

I have seen the label "neo visual kei" being thrown around a few times, but everyone seems to mean something different by it. Some mean a very specific style of modern vk, some just mean any vk band formed after ca. 2003/2004. Seems to be a pretty useless label, such as it is.

yeah, some fucktards were tagging 2002+ dark bands as "neo visual kei" all over lastfm. but i do agree with its description: 

"A pretentious tag used by pretentious people. there is no such thing as neo-visual kei and there will never be unless a revolution happens in the scene."

^________^

[lichtlune 915]

I wouldn't really use "Neo Visual kei" as an actual tag of some kind but i do sometimes use this term to describe well new visual kei. Usually the stuff after say 2010 or so come to mind. With the heavy emphasis on metalcore or electronic influences. The music is heavily altered in the studios and the bands don't seem to have as much control with the type of music they want to make. It feels more like pop music in a sense.
 
Visual kei has also lost some of the shock factor that i once loved. The musicians look more like those host boys of japan today. 
 

 

This is what visual kei is supposed to be.

[Bear 1817]

Of course the shock factor is gone. A shock factor will only be shocking for so long until it's not shocking anymore. This goes for everything. But I fail to see why this would matter at all.

[miyuu 40]

but today it's very difficult to be shocking or special.everything is accepted and maistream.
it doesn't matter if they want to be pretty if they still have rock looks. or strange looks.how about these bands that dress like hosts in pop designer stage clothes. how is that vkei?just because you fix your hair and wear pretty make up and pop clothes, you are vkei? how is that different with pop.
i do not have a problem with pop rock. but how are you vkei?

i hate bands that  try to be ugly just to be shocking and fail miserably. and just look stupid ,ridiculous and just ugly.
but not provocative or shoking at all or special. while there are pretty bands with more smart or provocative looks.

but about music as much as i do enjoy new bands .
i haven't found  a new that i can honestly say has better music than some older.(maybe it's personal taste)

 also i think neo visual kei it's just a word to describe things more easy,like old school. i do not get why it makes you angry.
it doesn't indicates opinion of what is better.as a word.only that times changed.

[Flash-Fab-Supernova 88]

I think miyavi capitalized on the Neo Visualizm term and just ran with it. Definitely brought it out to the forefront. 

[miyuu 40]

i just thought it meant new vkei. i think noone followed miyavi . i think actually people didn't like it as idea

[lichtlune 915]

but today it's very difficult to be shocking or special.everything is accepted and maistream.

it doesn't matter if they want to be pretty if they still have rock looks. or strange looks.how about these bands that dress like hosts in pop designer stage clothes. how is that vkei?just because you fix your hair and wear pretty make up and pop clothes, you are vkei? how is that different with pop.

i do not have a problem with pop rock. but how are you vkei?

I think its become less accepted and more difficult to get away with in the Japanese music business. If it were mainstream and accepted i would think we'd see it more often and not only underground bands like La'veil Mizeria doing it. Like i said i think the indie labels are behaving more and more like the major ones and the artists seem to have less control. Maybe the vk industry going down is part of that too. Visual kei doesn't seem to be as popular anymore. 

 

I think the artists have the talent and artistic vision to be great though but the labels hold too many restrictions on the artists. If bands like the gazette, versailles or an cafe were still rocking like never before and undercode was in good shape like it was visual kei music would be doing well.

 

I think visual kei is missing those "Super groups" that bring in fans. I'm sick of seeing good bands slowly falter into nothingness or disbanding out of no where. I put the labels at fault.

[lichtlune 915]

Of course the shock factor is gone. A shock factor will only be shocking for so long until it's not shocking anymore. This goes for everything. But I fail to see why this would matter at all.

Why wouldn't it matter? Isn't shock the very definition of what visual kei was intended to be? does "Psychedelic violence crime of visual shock" ring any bells? And it doesn't even have to be only about looks, It can be with controversial or taboo lyrics, contrasting themes or ideas, blending of musical genre's, etc.

[blackdoll 907]

That pic looks like glam more than vk. lmao thank goodness they do look like that anymore (wanna be kiss). At lest now when they wear different clothing they look good which is the shock because you didn't know guys could look like the or rock make up. good vk now looks hot.

 

and wasn't it always a job in vk to bring in girls

Edited May 23, 2014 by blackdoll

[Bear 1817]

Why wouldn't it matter? Isn't shock the very definition of what visual kei was intended to be? does "Psychedelic violence crime of visual shock" ring any bells? And it doesn't even have to be only about looks, It can be with controversial or taboo lyrics, contrasting themes or ideas, blending of musical genre's, etc.

 

I don't know when you got into visual kei, but I got into visual kei very late (2005 or something around there) and there was no shock value left at that point. And therefore I don't give a fuck about shock value, as nothing like that has been a part of visual kei (or anything music related) since I got into it.

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

I think its become less accepted and more difficult to get away with in the Japanese music business. If it were mainstream and accepted i would think we'd see it more often and not only underground bands like La'veil Mizeria doing it. Like i said i think the indie labels are behaving more and more like the major ones and the artists seem to have less control. Maybe the vk industry going down is part of that too. Visual kei doesn't seem to be as popular anymore. 

 

I think the artists have the talent and artistic vision to be great though but the labels hold too many restrictions on the artists. If bands like the gazette, versailles or an cafe were still rocking like never before and undercode was in good shape like it was visual kei music would be doing well.

Can you imagine that the bands actually like and care about the music they're playing, even after they stop making music that you like.

 

Kuroyumecore ( or "OLD SCHOOL" ) is dead and rotting and will exist solely as a fringe phenomena within a fringe scene. What is holding it back is not a label conspiracy, but a lack of interest from the public and first and foremost the musicians themselves - which is why it went away in the first place.

[lichtlune 915]

Can you imagine that the bands actually like and care about the music they're playing, even after they stop making music that you like.

 

Kuroyumecore ( or "OLD SCHOOL" ) is dead and rotting and will exist solely as a fringe phenomena within a fringe scene. What is holding it back is not a label conspiracy, but a lack of interest from the public and first and foremost the musicians themselves - which is why it went away in the first place.

Yes to an extent but i still think the labels hold the music back just a little at least. 

 

I'm not asking for the same music of that time to appear again but rather I'd like to hear the artists as they are without all of the studio tampering and things. I don't mind change as long as its for the best. I still have my old school gems and no one can take those away from me. I'm okay with the past as it is. That doesn't mean i will accept visual kei like it is today and think there isn't anything wrong with it. I definitely think visual kei has seen better days but that's just me. maybe others think this is the best era of visual kei music i don't know.

[Ikna 1225]

That pic looks like glam more than vk. lmao thank goodness they do look like that anymore (wanna be kiss). At lest now when they wear different clothing they look good which is the shock because you didn't know guys could look like the or rock make up. good vk now looks hot.

Well, it is a singer from a VK band and guess what, Vkei was influenced by GLAM.

Good VK = hot? So it's really not about the music, ok.

Also blackdoll, we have all already understood that you find old school to be shitty and pointless. You are writing the same argument again and again in any fucking thread that vaguely mentions oldschool bands (or is about old bands being covered by new ones, etc). It's okay now, you can calm down and fangirl/fanboy about Lycaon. No old skewl fanatic will stop you.

What i noticed so far in the thread: Kote kei elitists will never accept new VK and will always cry about it being shitty, too poppy, commercial and the bands looking like dumb hosts. And they will all sit in the corner waiting for new bands sounding like their indie superherous, like punks still wait for the revolution. (I know what I mean, I am kinfd of one of them)

And the Neo VK Fans will always make snarky remarks how old VK looked dumb and shit and how sexey and hotz the new bands are now. And that their production values and skills are better (something that even I agree with.)

 

And yeah, I am using those fucking labels. The reason: even though everyone seems to have a different understanding of Kote kei and Neo Vkei (since both are terms generated by fans, not bands or "experts") the majority of people will still understand what I mean, when I talk about Neo VK. Also it is horter than to say "the bands that came after those old skewl groups." Yeah, I am very lazy when I write my ass huge texts, so short terms and labels com very handy. I don't really care if the label is legit or if we have to rethink the concept in 10 years when contemporary bands are now considered old - for the time being it's totally practical.

And now to the "old band style coming back" thing: I am with the majority here. Old school VK is gone and over. That era will never repeat. Unlike  other music scenes that had more or less successfull revivals in the last years (see deathrock, post-punk and synthpop) old VK doesn't have enough fans to be revived. There is no big and strong "core" scene or community which is interested into forming and/or supporting bands playing in that style and there are no people who would help to build up a space and network for this style to flourish in the underground scene. VK itself isn't even a real scene and definitely not a subculture. There is no chance either that the early to mid 00s bands will have a revival and the type of VK that's popular now will vanish on day as well and be replaced by a new type of VK.

I also often heard that old VK was fitting to it's time. Every era has it's own feel and “Zeitgeist“ and of course musical and fashion trends. Old VK fitted into the 90s, because it was fitting into the feel of that era. We have the year 2014 now and the 2010s have a complete different feel and culture than the 90s. It's not easy to translate something from an older era into a new one without having to change it or at least adapt it ti the current circumstances. Old VK therefore wouldn't even work in the same way today as it did in the 90s. Too much has changed since then.

Of course there are bands like La'veil Mizeria or GAUZES, but they don't have a big following. They seem maybe too boring and "old" for the average VK listener, which is why their fanbase is way too small to bring them into the spotlight of popular music. Grieva may be the only ones who are successfull, but for me Grieva are more of a "modern old VK band". They defintely have the '99 spirit in their music, but they still sound somewhat modern. If they had only a  reportoire of songs like kikei they'd be spot on-old school VK, but with old Kuroyume inspired music alone you can't win the attention of people anymore. That's why they spice up everything with a bit of modern VK influences. Not that this is bad though. in fact I like it a lot and in my book they are doing it right. They have the right connection to the roots of VK, but they aren't totally backwards. (I don't want to discuss about the Dir en grey influence though, everthing has been said about it).

 

My faztít: the argument will go on until eternity and I too would like to see more old school bands. But i guess we can accept that it's dead and gone and should instead value what we have. There are enough old bands you can listen to. If you want to follow new bands and feel, that modern VK isn't yours, maybe try to go searching something you like outside of VK. This is mostly what I do and therefore I have no problem with no new VK bands being of any interest. On the other side: I may often come off as a hater, but I have nothing against modern VK bands. I just don't really like any aspect of 95% of them and I can't really get the hype around some bands, especially those Pop-rock Host kei groups. As I have said in this thread already: it's dependant on your preferences and what you like. Tastes are different and while I love old school aesthetics and music, another person may find it absolutely horrible. I can totally accept it, nobody has to like what I like. On the other hand I am not going to make mean spirited comments about how you suck for thinking the Gazette or Vivid (the new one) are the best bands that ever graced the scene. I may not agree with it, but you can love it as much as you want and defend your opinion.

 

I just dislike the strange climate between fans of old and new VK. It may be just me, but I have the feeling some people on the net (and here on MH) are extremely defensive when it comes to that topic and try to push down the fans of the other side. I am really sick and tired of users trying to turn every discussion into a bitchfight between oldschool and newschool lovers. I can't hear anymore the whole "But my (old or new) band would have done that better". And of course the whole "they looked like shit back then". It's as shitty and dumb as the "My band is better than yours. Your band sucks and therferoe your taste sucks!!! trololol" crap.

Sorry for writing a long text again. >_>

 

[sai 868]

I honestly don't give a shit in which year a song was made as long as I enjoy listening to it. Each generation had/has their heaps of shit and their good stuff. What you consider nice to listen to or pure shit is dependant on the person (and then I'm just talking about the listening experience, not about bands that are technically awful/great). There are people who like new VK and hate the old, there are people who like the old but hate the new (though like Ikna said, sometimes I feel like the polarization between these two fanbases goes a bit too far), and there's nothing wrong with that because WOW PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY HAVE A DIFFERENT TASTE IN MUSIC GUYS!

 

The second people only shit on what they hate and feel like they have to mention that in every single post (as demonstrated in this thread somewhere) that's where it isn't about an opinion anymore, then you're just being ignorant. Debating is something else than talking shit without any decent argument.

[blackdoll 907]

Well, it is a singer from a VK band and guess what, Vkei was influenced by GLAM.

Good VK = hot? So it's really not about the music, ok.

Also blackdoll, we have all already understood that you find old school to be shitty and pointless. You are writing the same argument again and again in any fucking thread that vaguely mentions oldschool bands (or is about old bands being covered by new ones, etc). It's okay now, you can calm down and fangirl/fanboy about Lycaon. No old skewl fanatic will stop you.

 

 

Well i assumed that people knew i was talking about looks because that what i was what i was reply too (vk having 2 fronts). the comment being "This is what visual kei is supposed to be." And exactly "WAS" meaning they finally realized how dumb they looked trying to imitate the west and instead embrace their Japanese characteristics highlighting what they already got. Music wise did you not see my earlier comment about old school that sounds like RES is good(later baiser, maybe SHAZNA) or did you miss that on your rage. oh yeah and Aliene Maφriage 21st Century had some nice tunes. but yeah mostly "shitty." but not pointless because newer vk can take stuff from back then and make it better or good. I will keep fangirl/fanboy about Lycaon lmao as if a old skewl fanatic would stop me.

 

but don't get me wrong newer vk has its crap too, just like everything else (listed in that one thread).  And I'm always on the look out for crap in the bands i like/love now because nothing is promised. 

 

and i could ask you so its not really about the band, its about copying old school and preserving what little you have with old times?

[lichtlune 915]

Well i assumed that people knew i was talking about looks because that what i was what i was reply too (vk having 2 fronts). the comment being "This is what visual kei is supposed to be." And exactly "WAS" meaning they finally realized how dumb they looked trying to imitate the west and instead embrace their Japanese characteristics highlighting what they already got. 

 

I've never seen any western bands that look like that you should show me some. I am not too familiar with the glam scene back then but KISS do not look kote kei lol they're not embracing their Japanese characteristics? please. Japan took glam and made it as their own. completely transformed it into visual kei music. The only bands that were truly influenced by glam metal and things we're x japan, loudness and those other 80s bands. After that i don't see the comparison to glam as much. I mean you can see it a little bit but its not too similar in my opinion.

 

And even if those 80s bands like x japan were "imitating" the west they still had their own distinctive sound and style.

 

 

I still don't see the similarities... they both have puffy hair and dark makeup that's it. Still different looks.

 

newer visual kei bands aren't any more less "shitty" than those older bands they just have cleaner produced music. You give newer bands the same amount of equipment aliene probably had to work with and you'd get a much different result.