Tetora

Fuaaark,

Last album was legendary, cant wait.

I wonder if this will in a way be his 'Vanilla'?

I have always liked this PV:

 

PARADOX by MORRIE

 

It features a whole bunch of symbolism, comparisons to pre-existing works of art, as well as historical events, and even some instances that some may think are eerily similar to what would unfold in the future (there is a scene that you could easily compare to 9/11). It creeps me out a little, especially when you dont know if they are really trying to be deep, or just messing around to make an interesting vid or get people talking.

 

Beware of slight nudity that is in the BG of one part. (Fellas, you are going to want to check out the teddies behind Morrie during the later half of the video).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da4w7sTaW5k

Cool, it brings together different fanbases to gather potentially larger crowds and also gives bands exposure to slightly new audiences, IMO.

I liked BORN live too. Eurobrahs getting some cool shows.

I like the look in the PV, the vocalist looks like the 9th inning just finished and he's going to hang with the boys, very cool.

He basically said Kameleo makes money only because of the merch and no one cares about their music. It's like people need lamps and they attend to an expensive VK concert packed with crazy bangyas just because they sell great lights, you know ? So why not pay for tickets and listen to their shitty music if you can get a super cool towel and a nice T-shirt ?

I dont want to be this off topic, but just to clear this up, I was not saying they only make money due to the lights etc... I was saying they make so much because they sell things like that, just like many other bands do. The same way bands make so much off the towels, cheki etc... Kameleo is positioned as a super-indie band yet still draws in good profits due to things like that. Live shows are not very profitable in many cases but things like this make them, and close the gap in profits.

Nowhere did I say anything about people not liking their music, fans who like their music also buy those things and that is business worldwide for bands.

Anyway, back to DIV.

hiroki is right, Shaolan974 is wrong and Tetora seems too naive for me.

 

I could comment every single paragraph you wrote and prove you how wrong you are, but I don't want to discuss. I just wanted to show my point of view and then you replied. But do you really believe once you join a label you're free to do whatever you like ? Do you really think Kameleo sells fucking lanterns because they want to or give a fuck about lanterns ? Do you really believe D.I.D. is "taking their time" ? You seem to believe once you join a major label everything is fine and you're fee to do w/e you like and they won't force you to release tons of stuff and be always in the media, mainly doing stuff you don't like, don't fit the concept of the band, etc. So let's use the examples you mentioned: First of all, let's remove Laruku from this. They're so popular that when they joined their current label they were already one of the most important bands in the history of Japan, so they can do w/e the fuck they want and people WILL buy w/e they do. It's an honor for the label to have them. They don't need a label, because they're so popular that if they have a label or not, if they release anything or not people will still be talking about them, and they'll always appear on mainstream media, etc. The same goes for VAMPS. The idea is if HYDE is on it, it'll see. He can dress as a vampire and sing lousy rick, dress as ghoul and invite his friends to plagiarize music from Tim Burton's movies doing halloween themed shit and even going solo and singing love/melancholic songs and it will sell, so, Laruku is the only exception. I believe they are free to do w/e they want. Their label only makes them go on tours and release stuff when it means a lot, like their 20th birthday, or they just keep re-releasing their older material.

 

SID seems to be getting there too. They kind of kept the same style they had when they were indies. The difference is that they do have a more pop touch to it nowadays and they don't make heavy songs anymore, but basically it is the same jazzy thing. UNiTE is just Canzel 2.0 and MUCC and Girugamesh are a mess. You never know what to expect from their next release, because they seem to be in a never-ending journey to find a new identity because they don't want to do what they did when they did when they were actually good and that's it. They'll keep flirting with new genres and styles and keep changing over and over again, without even keeping its roots, so yeah, people will buy their stuff because they have a name and because they hope they get back what they did back when the band was good, but it won't happen. I never knew one single person who got into MUCC and Girugamesh because of what they do today. They're just old fans that keep supporting these bands, so...

 

But, at least, all the bands mentioned above took their time to get where they are. They've built a huge fanbase of faithful fans that followed them because they've done so many good stuff for so many years, maybe they'll get back to doing good stuff again, right ? Wrong. But they don't want to accept it, or they actually like the new stuff too. And then you ask:

"And how would they keep getting worse because they don`t have the experience and maturity to deal with popularity?

Wouldn`t they be gaining this experience and maturity as they move on, isn`t that how it works? How do you gain the experience before you are popular?"

 

It's a slow thing, You don't suddenly become extremely popular and that's it. You have to go slowly or things will backfire because in one day you're playing in a filthy hellhole in the most shitty suburbs of Tokyo and in the the other day, bang, Budokan ! Remember ViViD ? That's what happened to them. It's the exact same example as DIV. Members from bands that nobody cared about join in a band created by a huge label in order to become extremely popular. In the beginning it was soooooo good, but then they've started to appear too much on TV, do anime songs, play in huge venues, etc and see what happened. Nobody cares about them much anymore. I don't think ViViD sucks. It's actually cool, but it's not even half as good as it used to be when they were indies. And it looks like I'm not the only one. Remember how many people were freaking out whenever ViViD released something new back then ? Take this forum, for example. How many comments their topics had when they were in indies PSC and how many they have now ? It was way more back then. People don't care anymore. Of course there are those who will support the band no matter what, those who still hope they will sound good, etc, but mostly, people don't care anymore, because they've fucked it up and you know why ? Because they've become too popular too quickly. They've changed drastically because they don't know how to deal with all this popularity and that's exactly what is happening to DIV.

 

I don't give a fuck about lyrics and album art, dude. I just want their music to be good. Fuck the rest. I'm not saying they WILL suck because they're becoming too popular but history repeats itself and it happened so many times with so many different bands that the probability of it happening again is huge, but there are some exceptions. There are bands who actually become way better the more popular they become. Let's hope DIV is one of those...

So I am too naive to understand?

I see it more as you passing off completely unproven rhetoric as fact rather than just your opinion. I see no evidence for any of what you said. And no, I dont think you can quote everything I said and prove how wrong I am because I am just giving my opinion and you dont have any actual evidence that will pass as factual here.

The arguments you provided are based off your opinion, which I gave my opinion on, and you retorted with things I honestly dont buy, and come off as some 'major label conspiracy theory'.

Bottom line how I see it, the label has many great acts that I love, and have grown them while not visibly changing them or making them less 'VK', and I have personally never seen them do so. Maybe you were there behind closed doors when these things happened, but in the event that you werent, I see no reason to believe that they are ruining their artists, it would only be an unsubstantiated theory.

As for ViViD, yes they are on a label that has been known for changing artists, Kra said it, SuG said it etc... so it is a possibility, though I still like their music, just like I still like MuCC who is more popular than ever, and I still like a whole bunch of other bands that didnt make the same exact songs over and over again.

Shaolan, as for SID, I dont mind if you call them whatever you like, I was just explaining why I feel confident referring to them as VK, and I think I made a pretty good argument, along with the fact that I can go buy a new VK magazine and they will have a photoshoot or interview in it.

SID is not VK.

They come from a VK label, where they were seen as a VK band, played and continue to play shows and do appearances with VK bands, were touted as the unstoppable VK band when they started cracking the Oricon top 10, still have the same core style and occasionally over the top outfits as they did before they went major, and decided to base their Mousou Nikki collaboration around VK bands.

But if you believe they arent a VK band, more power to you.

Bands don't usually get worst because they're tired. They get worst when they become more popular. They'll just keeping getting worst because they don't have the experience/maturity to deal with popularity. They came from bands no one cared about and now they're signed to a big label that keeps promoting them over and over again until they get a huge fanbase, so they'll make anime songs, play on big venues and this kind of shit. I think that's the problem with mainstream VK. They invest on nobodies that are actually talented and then force them to keep reaching goals until they become extremely popular and if they do, the probability of them making good stuff is minimal, because I don't think they get anyone to help them and they're just being forced to keep producing over and over again, which is why they relase a bunch of stuff in a short period of time, which means that the quality of their music will drop, because japanese media unfortunately gives more attention to quantity over quality.

 

MAVERICK D.C. GROUP will keep forcing them to make whatever is popular at the moment of the production of a new relrase and that's what they'll do. That's what all bands from this company do, actually. Kameleo is doing funny stuff because GOLDEN BOMBER is a big hit in Japan, Girugamesh is back at doing heavy music again because metalcore is becoming mainstream, D.I.D. is for the kids who like tr00 music and DIV seems to be the pop band. It's just a matter of time before DIV becomes a shitty boy-band, with cute boys that make mediocre music that actually grants a lot of money to their label because that's what teenagers in general like. I like them and I really hope they don't ruin their carreer, but that's what they'll eventually do. CHISA himself kind of said on J-MELO they don't plan to be a VK band for a long time, so I guess the transformation has already begun.

 

 

I honestly don`t agree with you at all.

 

First off, me and many other people have enjoyed their recent releases. I thought Zero-One was one of the best albums in a long time and have met many people who have felt the same. I have seen many people that love Butterfly Dreamer and You, as well as their latest. A few people disliking it doesn`t make it universally accepted as bad.

 

I can look at pretty much any recent band and see the same comments from people: `Their older stuff was better`, `they aren`t as good as they  used to be`. People and animals dont like change, it`s in their nature. Put a cat in a new environment and he hides under something in fear until he gets used to the surroundings. You fall in love with one sound, then think you want more of that, and the band comes out with something new and you instantly feel betrayed because it is slightly or majorly different in its sound, and you avoid it and think you either think you dislike it or actually do dislike it.

 

The issue now is that there are hundreds of different releases you could be listening to instead, so people wont take as much time listening to something and figuring it out, they will just move on.

 

And how would they keep getting worse because they dont have the experience and maturity to deal with popularity?

Wouldn`t they be gaining this experience and maturity as they move on, isn`t that how it works? How do you gain the experience before you are popular?

 

Also, Danger Crue is far from the label you seem to be describing (PSC). I have never seen Danger Crue force something on a band, or develop bad relations with any of their bands.

They grew or collaborated with some of the biggest acts in VK, including MuCC, Larc, some of L`arc members solo stuff, etc... And maintain great relations with these bands.

 

DC also grew SID, the strongest VK band there has been in a very long time, and the only VK band that can consistently compete with pop acts in the charts. SID and other acts never really strayed from VK (they just did the whole Mousou Nikki collab and gave so much to VK bands), and have always done whatever they wanted to do music-wise. SID never followed trends, they make all sorts of music with different influences and sounds.

 

And what is DC`s history with anime songs? Some of their bands do, some don`t. DIV and UNiTE could have done many by now, Giru could do many more than they do, but they dont.

 

As for being forced to keep pumping out material, I dont think there is any proof, and all DIV releases have seemingly been set when songs were already done. When they announced POV, the songs were already made. UNiTE certainly hasnt been forced to put out material, Girugamesh took as long of a hiatus as they wanted, D.I.D. really takes their time, Alsdead were given what seemed like all the time in the world for their releases. I dont think it can be accepted that they just make a lot of music.

 

As for quality itself, again, not seeing what dropped out in terms of composition, lyrics, production, even album art etc... They all seem to be at the same standard?

 

As for saying the label just pumps out whatever is popular... I don`t see this as holding any weight either. I can take any band from any label and say something like: `Oh VAMPS are only on the label because vampires became popular after Twilight` or `Oh, Takeru is dressing more hip-hop in this PV because K-Pop is popular`.

 

In the end these claims are complete rhetoric that can not be proven either way, and it makes no sense that the biggest `Indie`label, that has always grown their acts, and has a long list of acts that did not change to fit styles, is trying to fit in with the trends of less successful labels in an industry that doesn`t make much money anyway.

 

Btw what is UNiTE trying to be? They are the labels second most popular Ft act atm, and I dont see them copying any trends or sounding like anyone else. And Girugamesh has always been very popular, they were, and still are one of the top ten most requested Japanese bands outside of Japan, and could go to any other label or a full blown major label if they wanted, why dont they? As for D.I.D., Alsdead etc... They aren`t very popular when it comes down to it, they could take other bands that would appeal more to fangirls and exploit them but they dont, instead they are growing good bands and have a label based around great bands instead of just good-looking bishounen. The only reason Kameleo really makes money is all the stuff they sell at lives like the lights, etc... Which were the vocalists idea.

 

What they have now is a great and diverse line-up of bands that can mesh without overlapping, and none of the bands so far are moving away from VK, I`m not seeing the issue or how they can be described as such a label, they seem to be the best.

 

Let`s wait until the second album to see if they really `dropped in quality`, as before the first they came out with Golden Kinema and Taste of Life, two very different tracks with a mix of different B-Sides that some people said the same things about.

 

Thanks for reading.

Two-Year Anniversary, very strong venue. They have what, 50 songs already, enough to put together 4 albums with. Impressive band and management. Not to keep going on and on about them, but man, I am inspired.

Capacity is 2000 for this venue btw. Not sure if their setup changed that, but that is the base.

Texas, USA, the land of rednecks, bigots, and assholes.

Ah, I know Texas can have many hard@sses but I have good memories since there are many friends and nice ppl in Austin. There is a place called 9th street, basically everyone digs 'trails' for bike riding, and I can go there and meet many people who are different. The only thing is that the rule is, if you ride the trails, you have to help dig... if you dont, people will either kick you out or beat you up and some people have gotten hit by shovels before.

Hello,

I like your positive, outgoing attitude. Nice to meet you, hope you have fun here.

Cool, I am not sure how it is off topic but I want to say I also like news of this nature. I will be checking this place out if I have time to visit the area.

Holy #@#?@) MuCC and SID on my birthday? This is gonna be SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCK!

Brand X ships overseas: http://www.brand-x.jp/product/8665

Thanks, I guess the terminology of 'indie stores' threw me off, cdjapan also told me I will get that track.

So where can you order from out of country to get the acoustic track?

It gets better and better with every listen.

Definitely loving it now, cant wait to get the cd and blast it.

It's good, the production is really well done, nice guitar, I like the chorus and the sound of it too.

9/10

Always liked that one, only reason I detracted a point is just because.

Cool tune, I hate to be negative, but I feel like the tune needed a runaway guitar solo that shreds instead of that flat elctronic breakdown, which I am tired of tbh.

If it had a real solo it would go down a lot better with me, but that's just my take.

They are doing good in popularity. Third most popular on their label's FT roster, decent live houses, succesful consecutive releases, very high visibilty, high media demand from the VK side. If they keep going they will definitely fill a venue like that one day, they are ahead of the majority of VK bands in that point of the lifecycle terms of growth by the looks of it, considering they have one album only. That is a huge venue btw, check out the dimensions of the stage. Look at how much the budget in things such as PV's has grown btw.

As for the single's sound, I wouldnt be too worried, they have always been experimental (their sound didnt change after Taste of Life of Golden Kinema which were very different). Also all members compose, so songs come out different naturally. I think Zero One will still be their base sound, and they will branch out from there but stay rooted.

That is just my two cents though. I enjoy the song and pv btw. I wish they used a Japanese dude or.something but whatever that is just my personal feeling.

Cool.

I like you already. Looking forward to seeing you around, there are a lot of cool people here, hope you have fun posting!

Nice musical tastes too.

^Creative and original? Widen your horizons, buddy

Please share if you know of an album that came out recently with the tonic and sonic depth as well as instrumental range of Sug's last album, or something that comes close to the sound of their last single's leading track.

If you want to enlighten me via PM it would be my pleasure to check out the music which you speak of.

But in any case I am just sharing my opinion.

I think it is very cool. Like the funeral, and their look, song is nice too, lyrics are interesting.

暁歌水月 is a pain to type though!

T.A.C.K.Y.

If this was in some kind of R&B context sure, but this is far from typical in a VK context which is what they are playing with.

Tacky to me in VK would be more like : 死ヌ切ノ病ム or HIKARI NO YUME NO MUGEN NO DISCOBALL NO TSUKI NO TSUBASA。

Their music is some of the most creative and original coming out today IMO, I am looking forward to this.