lichtlune

I feel like music should first and foremost be about the art. Exploring your own creativity and giving a voice to it and all that. Being able to make a profit off your music should just be some form of happy coincidence, it shouldn't be the main driving point... Of course, the majority of musicians probably does not share these same ideals. It's sad. I know it's probably more difficult for some to combine a daytime job with a musical career than for others, but it's not impossible.
 
Also lel if you wanted to make a profit then maybe you should do something to make yourself stand out instead of being generic deathcore/metalcore band #845038450

Pirates don't care if we're taking food out of someone else's mouth. We don't care if we make it difficult to continue band activities. Historically speaking, pirates weren't nice people. We want music and we want it now and it's hard for a band to compete with free, easy access and still turn a profit.
It's the reality of the music scene in 2014. We suck as human beings, we care about a band enough to follow them but not enough to give them money to continue. Don't worry about us pirates because if the only two choices were to pay up or not hear the music we probably wouldn't buy it because then that band would have to compete with every other musician out there for the few cents in my pocket and honestly they probably aren't first in line. NB should just assume that pirates weren't going to buy their music in the first place so there's no money being "lost" because there was no money to be "gained".
Piracy is a double-edged sword, because at least people care enough about your band to continuously download your releases for free. It gets your name out there but it also does take food off your table. Piracy is great when you're trying to get known; not so much when you're trying to make money after you build up a fanbase. Try to profit off the free PR you get from piracy as best as you can. I have no other magic bullets or solutions or kind words.

I guess nobody . . . saw it coming.
 
I'm terrible, sorry.

https://soundcloud.com/user9042561/malice-mizer-gardenia-vocal-cover-by-neo
 
Let me know what you think

What I long for the most is not necessarily the looks but the music. I want more bands sounding like old school Visual kei. There have been some bands that have played that style such as Madieduor, La'veil Mizeria, etc. But my problem with these bands is that they never improved their skills. I mean OK, you can sound ultra indies and inexperienced for up to 3 releases, but then you must show skills and improvement.
 
Fortunatelty, old school Visual Kei is broadly varied (you can play with rythms and speed) but most of the recent bands that have done old school Visual Kei seem to get stuck on an hyper-ultra indies inexperienced sound. No, you must show skills and take the style even further, you must improve the style (O.S VK) after a time without having to transition to another style.
 
Although I must admit this is a good song (personal opinion). I like the soun distortions, the speed changes and all that Visual Kei used to have and that caught my attention. From here they should take the style even further.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyMCU0LO29o

I honestly don't give a shit in which year a song was made as long as I enjoy listening to it. Each generation had/has their heaps of shit and their good stuff. What you consider nice to listen to or pure shit is dependant on the person (and then I'm just talking about the listening experience, not about bands that are technically awful/great). There are people who like new VK and hate the old, there are people who like the old but hate the new (though like Ikna said, sometimes I feel like the polarization between these two fanbases goes a bit too far), and there's nothing wrong with that because WOW PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY HAVE A DIFFERENT TASTE IN MUSIC GUYS!
 
The second people only shit on what they hate and feel like they have to mention that in every single post (as demonstrated in this thread somewhere) that's where it isn't about an opinion anymore, then you're just being ignorant. Debating is something else than talking shit without any decent argument.

Well, it is a singer from a VK band and guess what, Vkei was influenced by GLAM.
Good VK = hot? So it's really not about the music, ok.
Also blackdoll, we have all already understood that you find old school to be shitty and pointless. You are writing the same argument again and again in any fucking thread that vaguely mentions oldschool bands (or is about old bands being covered by new ones, etc). It's okay now, you can calm down and fangirl/fanboy about Lycaon. No old skewl fanatic will stop you.
What i noticed so far in the thread: Kote kei elitists will never accept new VK and will always cry about it being shitty, too poppy, commercial and the bands looking like dumb hosts. And they will all sit in the corner waiting for new bands sounding like their indie superherous, like punks still wait for the revolution. (I know what I mean, I am kinfd of one of them)
And the Neo VK Fans will always make snarky remarks how old VK looked dumb and shit and how sexey and hotz the new bands are now. And that their production values and skills are better (something that even I agree with.)
 
And yeah, I am using those fucking labels. The reason: even though everyone seems to have a different understanding of Kote kei and Neo Vkei (since both are terms generated by fans, not bands or "experts") the majority of people will still understand what I mean, when I talk about Neo VK. Also it is horter than to say "the bands that came after those old skewl groups." Yeah, I am very lazy when I write my ass huge texts, so short terms and labels com very handy. I don't really care if the label is legit or if we have to rethink the concept in 10 years when contemporary bands are now considered old - for the time being it's totally practical.
And now to the "old band style coming back" thing: I am with the majority here. Old school VK is gone and over. That era will never repeat. Unlike  other music scenes that had more or less successfull revivals in the last years (see deathrock, post-punk and synthpop) old VK doesn't have enough fans to be revived. There is no big and strong "core" scene or community which is interested into forming and/or supporting bands playing in that style and there are no people who would help to build up a space and network for this style to flourish in the underground scene. VK itself isn't even a real scene and definitely not a subculture. There is no chance either that the early to mid 00s bands will have a revival and the type of VK that's popular now will vanish on day as well and be replaced by a new type of VK.
I also often heard that old VK was fitting to it's time. Every era has it's own feel and “Zeitgeist“ and of course musical and fashion trends. Old VK fitted into the 90s, because it was fitting into the feel of that era. We have the year 2014 now and the 2010s have a complete different feel and culture than the 90s. It's not easy to translate something from an older era into a new one without having to change it or at least adapt it ti the current circumstances. Old VK therefore wouldn't even work in the same way today as it did in the 90s. Too much has changed since then.
Of course there are bands like La'veil Mizeria or GAUZES, but they don't have a big following. They seem maybe too boring and "old" for the average VK listener, which is why their fanbase is way too small to bring them into the spotlight of popular music. Grieva may be the only ones who are successfull, but for me Grieva are more of a "modern old VK band". They defintely have the '99 spirit in their music, but they still sound somewhat modern. If they had only a  reportoire of songs like kikei they'd be spot on-old school VK, but with old Kuroyume inspired music alone you can't win the attention of people anymore. That's why they spice up everything with a bit of modern VK influences. Not that this is bad though. in fact I like it a lot and in my book they are doing it right. They have the right connection to the roots of VK, but they aren't totally backwards. (I don't want to discuss about the Dir en grey influence though, everthing has been said about it).
 
My faztít: the argument will go on until eternity and I too would like to see more old school bands. But i guess we can accept that it's dead and gone and should instead value what we have. There are enough old bands you can listen to. If you want to follow new bands and feel, that modern VK isn't yours, maybe try to go searching something you like outside of VK. This is mostly what I do and therefore I have no problem with no new VK bands being of any interest. On the other side: I may often come off as a hater, but I have nothing against modern VK bands. I just don't really like any aspect of 95% of them and I can't really get the hype around some bands, especially those Pop-rock Host kei groups. As I have said in this thread already: it's dependant on your preferences and what you like. Tastes are different and while I love old school aesthetics and music, another person may find it absolutely horrible. I can totally accept it, nobody has to like what I like. On the other hand I am not going to make mean spirited comments about how you suck for thinking the Gazette or Vivid (the new one) are the best bands that ever graced the scene. I may not agree with it, but you can love it as much as you want and defend your opinion.
 
I just dislike the strange climate between fans of old and new VK. It may be just me, but I have the feeling some people on the net (and here on MH) are extremely defensive when it comes to that topic and try to push down the fans of the other side. I am really sick and tired of users trying to turn every discussion into a bitchfight between oldschool and newschool lovers. I can't hear anymore the whole "But my (old or new) band would have done that better". And of course the whole "they looked like shit back then". It's as shitty and dumb as the "My band is better than yours. Your band sucks and therferoe your taste sucks!!! trololol" crap.
Sorry for writing a long text again. >_>
 

I guess when many people (including me) speak about “shock value“ they mean the typical gloomy, dark, try hard-edgy aesthetics, that defined at least mid to late 90s Vkei. I'd say the whole dark and horror chic survived even until the mid 00s. See Unsraw, early Screw and all those Nu-Metal influenced groups of that time. Unsraw even had Body Horror-like costumes at the beginning. But what it mostly comes down to are the Horror chic, the dark romanticism (Paraphilias, Murder, Violence, asocial or murderous behaviour that's kinda romanticized), Eroguro stuff (Amputations, bandages, blood, eye licking and/or eye fixation and body horror), etc.
And the most important thing: the fact, that the musicians often look otherworldly with their freaky costumes and cheesy hairtsyles. It creates some kind of "out of the ordinary" experience. That may be the biggest point, since in Neo VK bands rarely do the whole "faux-goth with huuuge Neon colored hair and 2spooky4all make up" anymore. Those older bands (from the indies scene mostly, because we are obviuosly not talking about soft vkei here, which never had much shock value to begin with) bands looked ridiculous most of the time, but their looks set them apart. What many people are bragging about is, that modern VK bands are often not so different from other popular japanese rock groups in term of looks. Anyone can dress in the away VK bands are styling themselves now, since their look is based on street fashion, rather then expensive and cheesy costumes, which the bandmembers only wear on stage (since they are way too uncomfortable to be actually worn outside as daily outfits).

Also let's not forget that there are a lot of cultural differnces between Japan and us mostly US and Europe-listeners. What may not be shocking or provocative for us may be totally not okay and scandalous in Japan. I am sure that Dir en grey's PV managed to enrage or scare the shit out of some Japanese citizens back in the day. And of course, what has already been said, time has changed. We are now familiar with all the clichés old VK bands had to offer and we grew tired of them. They lost their effect to really reach us emotionally. The only thing we may see now is that 80% of those PVs are cheap and bad. So saying shock value defined VK is not wrong, as it did indeed in Japan.

But now from my subjective perspective: I really miss those dumb and old “edgy" clichés. I have seen them so many times, but I still can't say that I am glad that they vanished. Okay, I am fine with Nazi uniforms having gone extinct in Vkei and badly done MUCC-inspired make up seems to have left the scene finally too. But I'd really love to see again bands incorporating the good old horror tropes, eroguro elements and the "I am goin' crazy and slice some people up, fuck yeah" theme.

I think its become less accepted and more difficult to get away with in the Japanese music business. If it were mainstream and accepted i would think we'd see it more often and not only underground bands like La'veil Mizeria doing it. Like i said i think the indie labels are behaving more and more like the major ones and the artists seem to have less control. Maybe the vk industry going down is part of that too. Visual kei doesn't seem to be as popular anymore. 
 
I think the artists have the talent and artistic vision to be great though but the labels hold too many restrictions on the artists. If bands like the gazette, versailles or an cafe were still rocking like never before and undercode was in good shape like it was visual kei music would be doing well.
 
I think visual kei is missing those "Super groups" that bring in fans. I'm sick of seeing good bands slowly falter into nothingness or disbanding out of no where. I put the labels at fault.

Why wouldn't it matter? Isn't shock the very definition of what visual kei was intended to be? does "Psychedelic violence crime of visual shock" ring any bells? And it doesn't even have to be only about looks, It can be with controversial or taboo lyrics, contrasting themes or ideas, blending of musical genre's, etc.

I wouldn't really use "Neo Visual kei" as an actual tag of some kind but i do sometimes use this term to describe well new visual kei. Usually the stuff after say 2010 or so come to mind. With the heavy emphasis on metalcore or electronic influences. The music is heavily altered in the studios and the bands don't seem to have as much control with the type of music they want to make. It feels more like pop music in a sense.
 
Visual kei has also lost some of the shock factor that i once loved. The musicians look more like those host boys of japan today. 
 

 
This is what visual kei is supposed to be.

... I didn't even know Danger gang still existed XD

This is Kamijo. The man is a true artist who defies genres and can entertain without needing to prove anything to his fans by sticking to the same thing over and over again, and this has always been his forte ever since Lareine, so whoever says that this 'new direction' he flows in to sucks, should remember where he comes from. They're his roots, he's always been more of a pop-artist rather than a metal-vocalist, or if anything it proves that he can pull off multiple genres just fine. And he pulls it off without embarassing himself like most artists would because even if he is cheesy, he is just flawless anyway.

All i can say is i don't know what you people were expecting when they announced this. It sounds good and i think they've captured the atmosphere of old vk really well. I don't understand why people are so critical of anything new and act as if their old songs are perfect little gems and nothing can be done to improve them. I've heard bands pull off the whole "Lo-fi" thing better too, Madeth gray'll and Misery come to mind. 

What makes them different from other bands today?
Nothing.
 
The singing was way off-key. Generally I have no problem with it though but I don't know... too notorious.
 
Neo Visual Kei is ruining everything!

Gentlemen are good to go though 

New look is very... ugly. o_o

1: Do you buy multiple versions of releases, or buy at all? 
 
A: I don't really buy many or any cd's at all for the time being. At least until i start making some more money. I'm a poor college student but i guess that isn't an excuse to not buy any cd's.  
 
2: Do you collect cheki or other non-music related items from bands?
 
A: No but i wouldn't mind to have some of those things in the future.
 
3: Follow them on Ameblo, Twitter?
 
A: Yes, I follow most of my favorite artists on twitter who have an account there. I also try to translate ameba if i am looking for information about some band members. 
 
4: Would you follow them on the street?
 
A: Hmm... if i just saw them out of the blue walking down the street? part of me would want to go up and say hi but i wouldn't say i would follow them around though lol
 
5: Dig through their trash? 
 
A: Yeah and collect their hair strands.. just kidding  
 
6: Does Visual Kei or other forms of your musical taste influence your style or personal life?
 
A: Yes for sure, I'd say visual kei is a part of my heart and way of being. Both aesthetically and the music too is very important to me.
 
7: Desire to move or visit Japan influenced by music?
 
A: When i finally force myself to learn the language i would love to visit/live there potentially.
 
8: Do you read dirt-sheets of bands, like rumours, gossip, etc...?
 
A: Depends... i guess..
 
9: Ever fantasize about being friends with band members? 
 
A: Honestly? yeah, it would be cool to get to know some of my favorite artists. 
 
10: Do you want to be in a Visual Kei band (or any other kind of band)?
 
A: Yep and i have a project influenced by 90s visual kei music so of course. 
 
 

I wish mikaru would use his deeper tone and growls he had in Dio... He could be one of the best visual kei vocalists. 

At least its not overproduced like a lot of newer bands are these days. The vocalist sounds okay on some parts too. 

My older brother introduced me to X Japan and Loudness when I was like 11 or 12. I didn't admit liking them for a year XD after that I started searching bands and the styles and everything...that's basically it lol

Wasn't sure if there was a thread on this but i thought it would be another interesting topic.
 
For me I'd have to say a combination of anime growing up and youtube really started it all for me. I liked the intro and outro tracks of deathnote so i decided to look it up on youtube and found Nightmare. I then saw the gazette, dir en grey and some others recommended to me. One thing led to another and here i am. 
 
How about you guys? 

I loved transparent shine too i would love for more songs like that if at all possible.

Lareine - Metamorphose, forever and always.