Illigal music sharing

[Guest]

Why can this never be over?

Why can't people just stop with uploading?

why do you buy? and share it with people who you don't even know?

You pay lot of money and they get it for free.

Did you ever think about that?

Of course bands get many fans if people just share however a band can go bankrupt too because everyone waits till that guy or girl buy the release and upload it to the INTERNET (*_*)

Free music is always better!!~~

question.

Would there ever an solution to stop this problem?

Or are people who did start a band just doomed and don't should get angry if people upload something?

And find a new way to get money?

check kiwamu kai blog why I ask you guys this...

*_*

[Guest]

The reason why I have bought 500+ CDs, 30+- tapes and 50+ vinyls are because of file sharing. If no one shared the music, I would never have ended up buying this stuff because I don't have enough to buy stuff blindly without hearing first. So why is it so bad to share?

Also, I know a CRAPLOAD of bands personally, and they ALL share their own music for free online. Actually, I was in contact with a band last night and told them that I was able to download their new demo from a blogspot because it took quite some time before I got my own physical copy of the band and they thought it was AMAZING that someone had uploaded it so a lot of people could check it out. Why? Because a lot more people will know aboutt he band, which means they'll sell a lot more copies of their demo. So for smallers bands it's more or less this: file sharing = more sold copies of their releases. Simple as that. Also, most bands get NOTHING from selling CDs, they get their money from selling other merch like tshirts, hoodies and all that, not by selling CDs.

And all that "bankrupt" shit is bullshit.

[CAT5 9075]

Filesharing is a double edged sword. Most of the people here wouldn't even know about or listen to the stuff they do now if it wasn't for filesharing. On the other hand, it can affect artists to a certain extent.

However, if we're strictly referring to Japanese music, you have to understand that many Japanese bands have no intention of marketing their albums to foreigners like us (unless they release some kind of overseas edition). So for the most part, we're not a huge part of the equation.

As for a solution? I wouldn't worry about that. People are gonna share music regardless of the consequences. It's human nature. Music IS meant to be heard after all.

So I suggest that you simply do what *YOU* can to support the artists/bands you like and leave it at that.

Personally, I'm ALL for buying albums (especially from indie/underground acts - major labels can mostly kiss my ass), but I'm also a proud and shameless pirate.

edit: and like cheesy said, most bands don't get much (if anything) from selling CDs. The major labels make it look like file-sharing is "wrong and evil" only because it's a form of music distribution that they can't profit from and have absolutely no control over. So the "war on piracy" is really a huge farce. If they were truly concerned with piracy, they'd do something about google - the largest music search engine there is. Yet they'd rather target all the private music trackers that basically do the same thing lol.

[Guest]

edit: and like cheesy said, most bands don't get much (if anything) from selling CDs. The major labels make it look like file-sharing is "wrong and evil" only because it's a form of music distribution that they can't profit from and have absolutely no control over. So the "war on piracy" is really a bunch of nonsense. If they were truly concerned with piracy, they'd do something about google - the largest music search engine there is - yet instead they target all the private music trackers that basically do the same thing lol.

This si quite correct, good sir. The labels are the one that care, because they are the ones that gets money from selling albums. And the only bands that lose money on file sharing are bands that are huge and sell a crapload of albums anyway, like Lady Gaga, Iron Maiden, Metallica and shit. They're so big that they actually get a shitload of money themself. Sigh, Primordial, Deathhammer, Licker, Lynch and so on simply aren't big enough to actually earn anything from selling albums, because they don't sell close to enough albums. All of it goes to the labels. Merch however, bought at live concerts, tends to give bands some money that they'll get. Sad? Sure. But that's how it is now, used to be and will be in the future.

[Kaye 296]

All groups get paid because of the tours they do, not because of the CD's they sell. Most of that money goes to the company anyway. That said, just like some other people here, I wouldn't have bought most of my CD's if I hadn't been able to at least listen to them beforehand.

I own lots of Asian CD's, not only Japanese ones but Korean and Thai as well. Not everyone has the money to just blindly go online and buy any new CD that comes up, pay for them and ship them over here only to discover then that you might not even like it?

Sure there are people who download and never buy a thing. But I know for sure a lot of us buy their CD's.

Besides, I've had lots of bands telling me that they'd rather have people sharing their music and coming to their shows to watch them play (and buy merch) than not even listen to them and care about them at all. Do you know how many groups actually get a chance to tour the world just because their music was shared all over the world? Girugamesh, Dir en grey, and every other single Japanese band wouldn't even bother coming over here, if they didn't know there were fans who knew their songs and would bother coming over to see them live. And this works for the underground scene in Europe, Australia and America as well.

[Champ213 1858]

I spend as much money on music as I can afford. If there were no illegal downloads, I would still spend as much money on music as I could afford. Obviously I would have a lot less music, but no artist would have a cent more money, because I already spend as much as I can afford.

The only difference is that I can make more informed decisions on what to spend my music budget on. During my teens, there were no illegal downloads. Don't ask me about the number of crappy and mediocre albums sitting in my CD shelf, because I more or less bought them blindly, or with only knowing one or two songs. This doesn't happen anymore, since I rarely buy an album that I haven't downloaded before. Granted, a decent streaming site might do the trick as well, but it's less convinient.

Also, I adore digipacks, and you can't download them.

[Prism 8]

check kiwamu kai blog why I ask you guys this...

check kiwamu kai blog

kiwamu kai

But yeah, I buy stuff I really enjoy and tend to buy new stuff from bands I really enjoy without hearing said new material. Part of it is the collector in me too.

[Champ213 1858]

Oh yeah, bands themselves have very different oinions about filesharing. Kiwamu will throw a chair at you if you upload their PV preview to Youtube, but other bands have a more relaxed attitude. The best statement regarding filesharing a read a while ago on the FB page of a band called The Monolith Deathcult:

[jun 1]

if people didn't share. probably i wouldn't even know about japanese music and visual kei.

and even if i heard that exists , nothing would motivate me to want to learn more about it.

from the moment that their cds aren't in my country's stores it changes everything.

it's really unfair that i just can't go to a store and buy it.

[Guest]

I had a chat with Jörgen Sandström (The Project Hate MCMXCIX, Entombed, Grave etc.) a few years back on this file sharing place on the webs. He always uploaded the new The Project Hate MCMXCIX albums as soon as the music was mixed and stuff, sometimes several months before the actual release date, because he felt he had to give the people something back because he downloaded so much music himself.

Same goes for the norwegian band Vesen. They'd rather have 150 people download their album and attending their concerts, rather than 75 people buying their album and attending the concert. So they didn't mind people downloading at all. The more people who heard their album = more people attending their concerts = more fun for the band while playing live, as well as some money. Win-win for the band themself.

[Slsr 207]

Piracy has it's good and bad points as already mentioned, I see it as a good thing so far, but hard to say if future generations will buy too much music anymore because of it, though there will very likely to be some laws and other stuff against piracy in future, which will make it harder to do...

I actually think best way to promote band/artist currently would be to upload album really many popular sites where there is people who like such a music, if album is really good it's bound to get popular then. Would be especially good for band/artist recording small label or has no record deal at all. Still you first need this really good album that many people would like though, not done so easily .

[Zeus 7997]

Here's a nice quick history lesson on piracy for everyone here.

Back in the days of television, a magical human being invented something called the VCR Recorder. Using these newfangled things called tapes, people could tape their favorite TV shows and watch them whenever they want. It was a great invention and everyone loved it...except the execs of the major companies. They blasted the recorder, calling it the death of entertainment and saying that piracy would destroy television? Why? Because the intention of the execs was that people would pay per view: as in every time they wanted to watch a program or a re-run they would have to pay for it. Same goes for TV movies. VCR subverted that and they claimed they would be losing tons of money from this invention.

Then one of the bright guys figured that you could just start selling TV shows and movies on VCR (now DVD) and you could make tons of money! Then that entire argument fizzed out.

Then the walkman came along. You could record your favorite songs from the radio and play it back whenever you wanted! No more need to buy the vinyl of an artist you were newly exploring or didn't know too well! Just record what you hear on the radio and play it back! It's free, portable and no one is losing money anyway! It was great and everyone was rejoicing...but the execs. Why? Because they wanted you to pay per listen: as in every time you wanted to hear the song you were expected to shell out some dough to do it. They wanted you to buy the mark-up on vinyl because it makes them a profit. So wait, why would they play it on the radio for free but not let you record that free stream onto a tape and listen to it? Faulty logic and some handwaving later and they would say it was a form of "advertisement" and that you were "sampling the artist" before you went out and bought the ridiculously expensive record with that one song you like and maybe 10 others you don't.

Then someone figured out that if you distribute the music on tape instead of on the non-portable media of vinyl, you could harness the power of the walkman and make more money! Then people wouldn't need to record media anymore! Then the argument fizzled away and that became the new standard.

Same argument with piracy in movies. The camcorder is going to destroy hollywood! People can go into movie theatres, record the movie and sell it back on DVD for a profit! Then the movie theatres are losing money! This is bad!

Then someone decided that if you distribute the movies on tape not long after the movies came out at a reasonable price then people wouldn't bother paying 10 bucks for a shitty recording when they can wait a few months, buy the box for twenty and get a tape with quality recording! Then all of a sudden the camcorder wasn't so bad.

Are you getting the point that I'm trying to get at here? These record companies are forcing an old style of business on a changing market and they're failing miserably at it. They look at the piracy and they claim that they're losing millions of dollars a year from "illegal downloads" but let's look at it like this: some of those illegal downloads earn no artist a profit (like live distributed material, which was released SOLELY for promotion). Some of those illegal downloads are by people that have already bought the material and just can't wait for it to get shipped to their house so they just want it now until they get what they ordered. Does that mean they have to buy it twice? Some of that is people testing out some new material by an artist and they may go buy that/future releases because of the quality of what they've heard and they would have never bothered with that artist if the download wasn't available? Illegal? Yes, but they make a lot of money off of the release. Do they subtract those figures when they're calculating those losses? No, because then that means the very thing they're attacking is what's making them a chunk of money, and that's shooting yourself in the foot.

And then the rest of those downloads are by so called "fans" of the band that have no intention of buying the release. Remove piracy from the equation and that doesn't translate into extra sales - it translates into nothing. Those people never had the intention of buying the release in the first place, so who is losing the money?

No one. There's no money to be lost if there was no potential money to be gained.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

Zess 4 mod. Oh wait, lololololol

I'd like to add that it's becoming more popular for American groups (I wouldn't say popular ones, but not no-name bands if you listen to more than America's Top 100 count down) to give out their albums for free, as well as sell the actually CDs. Instead of bitching about people not giving them money, they figured it would be better to let people hear their music and then have them come to their show and buy their merch (which gets the much much more money as a band than if you buy their CD at Best Buy or iTunes). Here's the example I was thinking of: http://www.purevolume.com/new/iceninekills I've also been to a show whose feature band said that they don't care if illegally download their music or not, so long as the audience got a chance to listen to it: quite the contrast to Kisaki / Kiwamu style marketing. Kisaki: ignore the Western fanbase, release everything in multiples of 2~4 and raise the price at least 800 more than it should be and throw in a DVD or cool webshop promo, and imply that all is well and good with everything. Kiwamu: release things in one version, but make mp3's easy for Western fanbase to buy, but publicly complain about how much the industry sucks. Both do make some money though, and both labels are good way for bands to get some attention, both regionally and internationally.

My friend, whose a DJ for a college radio station at Oneonta, showed me that (both the band and that website) when I asked her if she could get me the mp3's for their latest album from her radio gig. I was surprised that they were giving out all of their material for free like that and asked her why, and here's a copy pasta from the facebook conversation:

"a lot of bands do that now... once they get you to listen to it (which you might not do bc you dont want to buy it so making it free you will listen to it) they can go on tour... and hopefully you would go see them and spend money on merch.... the way the music industry makes money nowadays is changing. bc of illegal downloading and streaming and just finding other ways to pirate music they need to find new ways to make money."

Not everyone on that site gives out their stuff, or even has all of their music listed (I just looked up Versailles on there, for example) , but its an outlet that's more productive than writing angry blog posts complaining about shit foreigners who only know Chile exists because the blog they love most has picture of the country on the sidebar, underneath "VK

I personally buy CDs a few times a year (much to my parent's dismay for spending so much money on it, which is true...), but I cannot afford everything I want. As of late, I've only been buying CDs from the bands I love most or "rarez" I find on Yahoo auctions since I'd rather spend the money on CDs I can't find through google. I also buy Western CDs in stores like FYE as well and I actually don't pirate a whole lot of music that isn't from this forum. #brandloyalty

[Number Girl 48]

First of all, I think you've come to the wrong place to try to question piracy. While nothing is wrong with your opinion, suggesting the board to stop illegal downloading is like going to a Christian board and trying to convince people to stop giving away free Bibles. Though I could personally care less if it all disappeared tommorow (and despite it is the source of tons of highly unecessary drama), the Download section is technically this board's foundation and is important to about 98% of its userbase for different reasons. Bottom line, it isn't going to stop any time soon.

Anyway . . .

I have never downloaded much from Monochrome Heaven and I see no need to. I have the ability to determine if something is worth buying or not from samples given out on legal websites, YouTube clips, MySpace, etc. With my dial-up internet connection, I actually would prefer a streamed 40 second clip to a whole album in 360k.

I buy CD's mainly because, I love collecting. I like having my music in the highest possible quality it exists in. I love having the lyrics, the notes, and the pictures to look at. Downloading someone else's files gives none of that.

Yes . . . CD's are expensive, and I can only buy what my budget allows at a given time like most people, but I no longer have the desire to have something immediately. But that is just my personality. Other people are different.

But I am convinced most of the "J-Rock" fandom overseas can thank illegal file-sharing in some form. Even if you never got anything from Monochrome Heaven or some other site like it, most of us have probably been sent something from a friend, saw a video uploaded on YouTube or other streaming site, or heard streams on Pandora or Last.FM and that was how we found out about our favorite artists.

I don't disapprove of illegal sharing in all circumstances (though I do not participate in it much anymore). I could care less about how rare releases and out-of-print stuff is shared (since no one benefits or loses either way) and I don't mind sharing that kind of stuff if I happen to have it. For stuff that is accessible, I still think that if you are a fan of an artist and you like something you heard, you should try to support the artist's careers by buying the music. So - I don't share new releases or in-print stuff at all.

Illegal file-sharing is very limited in its benefits as a form of "promotion" - someone has to buy things eventually. (And I highly doubt most people here would fly out to Japan to see a show of a tiny indie band in a tiny venue in Tokyo or pay for an overpriced imported "snap bracelet", so don't even go there). To my knowledge, artists do get royalties from CD's and though they are small profits a profit is still a profit in the end. And artists do like it when you buy the CD (indie artists too) - they put a lot of hard work into it and in my opinion they deserve something out of it. Especially if they are very talented too.

[LIDL 692]

Why can this never be over?

Why can't people just stop with uploading?

why do you buy? and share it with people who you don't even know?

You pay lot of money and they get it for free.

Did you ever think about that?

tl;dr for reading many post before me,

so excuse me if there`s anything have been mentioned.

but to answer your questions:

• 1. Why can this never be over?
  2. Why can't people just stop with uploading?
  3. why do you buy? and share it with people who you don't even know?

• You pay lot of money and they get it for free.
  4. Did you ever think about that?

1. Because as long as there always be demand,

there will be people who more than happy to share

2. Even if people can stop uploading or there will be law that regulate this.

People will find another way for sharing music and whatever thing that have a high demand.

They can always burn it on CD or save it into flash disk, etc etc etc.

You can;t stop peoples, becaus ethey have many reasons to share,

which usually coming from one main root, ``solidarity``

3. i buy because either i enjoy the music

or just obsessive with particular artists and enjoy their music.

I wouldn`t go as far as ``TO SUPPORT THE ARTIST LOL``

cos it is bullcrap, i`d attend their show and but merchandise if i want to do that.

90% royalties of CD selling will goes to their labels and producers pockets.

Most artist will only have about 10% of it, unless it`s their own label.

If an artist write a song then they may eligible for having a bigger share for royalties.

Even Lady Gaga that are mentioned as the richest entertainer on Earth this year on Forbes,

got her fortunes from her seem-to-never-endingly Monster Ball Tour this past 3 years.

She was bankrupt during the first leg, but kept doing shows and look where she is now.

It is not from CD selling. Not at all.

4. I do, And i don`t mind at all.

If by sharing can help people out of their difficult situations, why must i stop?

Not all people as fortunate as i am financial wise, and they most of the times have to choose

whether to buy a CD or buy loaves of bread for the week or such. And i understand it is

such a shitty situation. And if i have the CD they like to hear and i know i can help

i would not think twice to do it. Or in another situation, that they are can afford only one CD while they looking out for another Cd from another artist that they are passionate with.

If i can help why must i not? There is so much more than material things.

I know it may come disrespectful to artists that working hard.

But hey, you cannot blame these peoples that download things for being poor.

question.

Would there ever an solution to stop this problem?

Or are people who did start a band just doomed and don't should get angry if people upload something?

And find a new way to get money?

check kiwamu kai blog why I ask you guys this...

*_*

• 5. Would there ever an solution to stop this problem?
  6. Or are people who did start a band just doomed and don't should get angry if people upload something?
  7. And find a new way to get money?

5. No. Never will.

6. They should not be. Unless they are businessman that also a musician.

And Kiwamu is, he own a label, he managed artists and of course he got worried

cos if they does not get income, all the money he spent for all these bands under his label`

for producing CDs, promotions, all those costumes, etc.

will not coming back to him. He will got bankrupt if going on like that.

7. They should not be. There will always be fan base to support them.

Especially if they making good music, or music that are not so cutting edge.

And welcomed not just by limited community. That make a bigger chance for having larger fan base. People can laugh with other peoples

that brave enough to label themselves with a fan or fan boy and fan girls.

But these peoples are the peoples who will actually bought CD regardless quality or fad

unlike regular listeners that may only bought because they like one particular album or two

and don`t care much for the rest discography.

Also do more shows, than just selling CDs after CDs.

That will not ever making the ends meet at all.

[Takadanobabaalien 3607]

To me it sounds like OP is Kiwamu.

[futoshi92 34]

I also wish that there was bigger chance for buying CDs. But several reasons why do people are downloading is in example:

There is a band that you are interested in. They're not known in your country, so you can't find it in the stores. Or perhaps you don't have enough money. So downloading is just a precise way. I'm not saying that I approve downloading, but this is one of the main reasons.

[X-Marc 7]

i bought most of my cds after i listened to the bands when i first downloaded them. then i decided to share cds no one had yet, so that they might do the same. also i download lots of stuff i know i will never have, cause the cds are sold out/hard to get/disbanded bands etc. i also have some stuff that is sold out/hard to get, that i like to share since i know that some people wont buy the expensive things but do want to listen to them. i dont always share those things, its nice to have some treasures in your collection.

but overall i think sharing stuff also increases buyings, since you are like: hey that sounds cool!

plus japanese editions are most of them time very beautifull, come with cool bonuses (posters or other stuff) and have beautifull booklets plus dvds, wich i personally like to have in my hands instead of on my pc=)

[sai 868]

check kiwamu kai blog why I ask you guys this...

check kiwamu kai blog

kiwamu kai

Lol my thoughts exactly

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

Why can this never be over?

Why can't people just stop with uploading?

People will always want free things and as long as people want stuff for free it isn't going to stop.

why do you buy? and share it with people who you don't even know?

You pay lot of money and they get it for free.

Did you ever think about that?

I stopped being generous like I use to be because Visual Kei fans are ungrateful self-entitled brats. However, I only have this attitude for items from active bands with material that is in print and easily accessible. Old bands that broke up 10 years ago, that released limited number of CDs that you can only find on auction sites (in other words hard to get) I don't have a problem with sharing. The band isn't getting anything from it and not gaining any more fans anyway. I don't understand how it might harm the band, if anything if the artist is still making music it could be beneficial. Gaining new fans that will seek out the artist and listen to their new music. (Also the satisfaction of trolling traders and leaking their precious rarez.)

However, active bands? I don't like sharing for example their CDs. My Heaven's Luck Sister, I was one of the first to buy the single and hell it was only five dollars on CDJapan. A website in English that focuses on selling outside of Japan to foreigners, not hard to use at all and doesn't require a shopping service but I still had people messaging me asking me to share the single with them. I would send them the link to the site were you could buy it, most complained that they couldn't spend five fucking dollars. That's not my problem if you don't have the money, not everything is free and if you really really really want it get a job and buy it yourself.

This rants makes me a hypocrite though because I wouldn't be a fan of Japanese music or any of the music I listen too if it wasn't for downloading. I started out downloading but I would try to buy CDs when I had the money but I really couldn't keep up with most artists I like. Especially Japanese bands because I just couldn't afford Japanese CD prices and the shipping on top of it. Now that I work and have disposable income I try to buy and show my support of the artists I like when I can. I know they aren't making phat money from CD sales alone since most of it is siphoned off to the label and other suit types but it still helps and many still appreciate it. I wouldn't have bought most of the CDs I have (over 400) if it wasn't for downloading.

[MY BFF HEIDI 7]

paying for music is for chumps lmao

also widespread vk piracy is never going 2 end/change among overseas fans because the entire scene sprung up from it. if they wanna tap the foreign market they'll need 2 get off their asses and offer incentives or just ignore it altogether. especially in an economic depression.

[evilcoconut 109]

My opinion lies somewhere around: wanting to buy as much as I can, but wanting to hear more than I can afford, lol.

I think someone already said it here, but also Jimi in that JaME interview that just came out, bands DO want to get heard more than anything. No one's going to know who you are or anything else if they can't hear you. Because, chances are, the person that hears a random song/single/album might buy something. But that same person will never buy anything if they don't even know who you are or what you sound like. Never vs maybe. I know which one I'd pick. That's why a lot of them don't care.

ON the other hand, people who don't buy ANYTHING and expect EVERYTHING to be shared with them, are entitled gits and I hope one day they have to work and not get paid, lol.

As for why I personally share stuff, it's usually because I really like the band and I want other people to hear them. Simple as that. If you say, well, if you really like the band, why are you distributing their stuff? See the top paragraph for that answer, then possibly learn to logic? lol

[Number Girl 48]

It may not even be appropriate for me to say this, but I just couldn't help but notice that the creator of this topic is listed as being active in the Downloads section of this forum. Maybe if you want to stop illegal music sharing, it might help to make sure you aren't part of the problem in the first place. :/

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

What blog post is the OP talking about? Wanted to read it but they failed to provide a link and all I could find was his Japanese blog. His Facebook is full of stupid shit morons tag him in so I didn't even bother looking at his Facebook wall.

[MY BFF HEIDI 7]

It may not even be appropriate for me to say this, but I just couldn't help but notice that the creator of this topic is listed as being active in the Downloads section of this forum. Maybe if you want to stop illegal music sharing, it might help to make sure you aren't part of the problem in the first place. :/

lol