Social perception : J-music listener

[kawa35 17]

Hello everyone,
I didn't find an other topic like this one so be free to remove it if I missed it.

 

As a j-music listener for a while now, especially vk, I heard a lot from my entourage. The mains subjects are about the dress, the boy/girl looks and how japanese sound for people. I feel like to avoid the question flood it as to be a type of music that we can only enjoy ourself, like if it couldn't be share with others because it not enough mainstream.

 

Do you have some anecdote to share about how you may be perceived by your entourage?

[Pretsy 1343]

From most avid music theorists and listeners I mostly heard peeves about unorthodox structures (verse - bridge - verse - bridge - chorus, even though this is not unique in J-music), not-so-palatable vocal approaches (either baritone vocals set in unusual contexts or *warbling*) and completely different approaches toward melodic accompaniments (see: Marty Friedman's talk about differences between American and japanese music). Otherwise it has been mostly all about the language, heh.

 

edit:

 

Check the ending part he is playing and try to justify that as "pop music" to your music hobbyist friends. They won't dig it.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Alroy

[patientZERO 1066]

I used to do this a lot: tell someone to listen to a song without any visuals and then get their impression of the music. It worked all the time with my brother, regardless of the fact that neither of us could understand what was being said. If lyrics are a big issue for people listening to music, then I don't think they care that much about the music.

[BrenGun 2261]

There are lots of people who want to be able to understand the lyrics of a song. If they cannot understand, how beautiful a song could be, they won't like it, because they cannot understand it.
However if the song would be English, or in a language which they would understand and if it's the music taste they love, they would surely love it.
People want English or a language they can understand, lots of bands switched to English and they gained more fans because of English.
Metal band LOUDNESS got their success because of English songs. Fans in Europe and America, really prefer the songs in English, they don't want Japanese. Even in Metal, where lyrics don't matter that much, where the melody is damn headbang and crazy, people still prefer English.
So Language is preferred above melody. 

Of course there are enough people who don't care and can listen to every song whatever language it is. And sometimes if the melody is really catchy or a music video is funny, more people will like it even if they can understand it.

 

However I don't think there is a real Japanese typical melody. Of course there are but still many Japanese bands love music from the west and copy all shit out of it too

 

 

 

[Eikazuya 3]

That time when someone ask

looking visual-kei band pic and

" Why are you saving Girls' pics ? "

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When the song is catchy, I like it.

when lyrics is understandable the better

It's easy to remember when you understand

the lyrics.

For me, i can sing 30% of some SID songs

( just think of a guy singing jp songs in

weird accent in the shower )

--------------------------------------------------

From other perspective, the music seems

fine until seeing the crossing dressing guys

--------------------------------------------------

and again (10+1) -____- b

------------------------------------------------

 

[reminiscing2004 617]

For me it always helps that I am into a wide variety of music genres. If a friend gets to the point where I've shown them some vk/japanese stuff, it usually just strikes them as another obscure thing rem is into it. If this doesn't really apply to you, my best advice is probably something along the lines of "Yeah, it's really fascinating the kind of things that come out of that country. It's like because they are so socially conservative and repressed, a lot of their art is just so much more out there and creative."

 

Part of it depends on what kind of friends you have as well. Open minded people probably won't bat an eye or ear, but if you do have those who just don't really get it, just hold your ground and don't give into laughing about it the same way they might. Idk if this helps, but good luck.

[mahoujin 395]

I guess when I was a newer visual kei fan, it was amusing for me to show visual kei to the uninitiated. Now that I'm older, the fun has worn off and showing visual kei to "normies" is a chore and I just don't feel like doing it. Literally all of my current friends are at least comfortably familiar with visual kei, if not visual kei fans themselves, so I luckily haven't felt the need to explain or justify myself to anyone in a while. I also listen to plenty of other music and have other interests, so it's not 100% necessary for me to show visual kei to people in order to socialize with them. I haven't really had any reactions more negative than "not my thing, but that's cool" in a long time. 

[a11 11]

i heard too many times japanese language is a barrier. Rammstein was very popular and nobody complain on their language. foreign language is acceptable when its mainstream.

[wildjokerleia 24]

Language barrier is really a big one. Of the people that complained about the language, their reasoning was because they wanted to be able to understand the lyrics.

 

Granted, I've learned that the best way to hook those interested in listening to jrock isn't through just playing the songs or show them the music videos. No, the best way, in my opinion, is to show them a live performance. Because that really shows off their skills and stage presence the best. <3

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

Recently all I've noticed was a great indifference to it by the people whom I've been forced to explained it to. Some still remember An Cafe, Dir en grey and Gazette from ten years ago, and others just don't really care which way or the other. So far it has fallen from the common consciousness in fact, that one person thought I had conversed about something called "visual gay" the whole weekend, and she fancied it better not to inquire any further on the matter. 

 

In middle school it was a different deal; I was loud and proud with my weebdom and had a picture of An Cafe on my computer's desktop for the longest time. Many an argument were then ended by my mates just calling me a fag, and that'd be that. That's back when everyone still knew about anime, manga and visual kei, so the reactions to it were more polarised as well. As all the kids back then were into Slipknot, you'd sometimes show them something which was more palatable and met with a warmer response, like Dir en grey. One person from my school I managed to convert even.

 

Assuredly I'd still hear the usual "oh, I can't listen to that language" or whatever, but I'm already old enough to choose to not to associate myself with anyone that musically illiterate; and quite frankly I don't know how anyone could stand for such company for any longer than a cordial greeting in the rest room. 

[seikun 317]

I don't know. Things change over time.

 

10 years ago people outside the fandom were more prejudiced towards Visual Kei, for example, but many of those people who would look down on Visual Kei in the past now may like some bands because the variety in bands and musical styles have broaden some people's musical appreciation.

 

Some (many) metal heads were very prejuidced, but once exposed to bands like X Japan or Versailles some of them have changed their opinion on Jrock/Visual Kei.

 

I have a friend who loves proggressive rock and jazz and he used to criticise Visual Kei, but because most of my friends love Jmusic he was a exposed to a lot of Visual Kei bands and not he actually likes some bands.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by seikun

[RickBuch 137]

It  happens all the time to me, people say that they doesn´t like it just for being japanese music, or, on the visual kei side, they look weird, and all of that makes me even weirder for liking this kind of music.

 

But, in the end, it's like Gene Simmons said "If X Japan wasn´t from Japan, they would be the biggest band in the world"

[apple-wa 10]

Reading through these responses is kind of depressing. It seems we've all had bad reactions when introducing other people to VK. I've gotten so tired of standing there while people insult what I love just because they can't or won't understand it, that I just don't talk about it with other people anymore. If anyone asks what I listen to, I just tell them symphonic metal or symphonic rock, since that's the area of VK I listen to the most. Frankly, it's not really their business what I listen to anyway.

[Komorebi 2193]

5 hours ago, apple-wa said:

If anyone asks what I listen to, I just tell them symphonic metal or symphonic rock, since that's the area of VK I listen to the most. Frankly, it's not really their business what I listen to anyway.

Yeah, it's my approach. And I name bands and it's the same to them. 

It gets awkward when I give co-workers rides, today in fact I was asked to put on some reggaeton and I went "not in my car, not on my ipod". But then again, it's none of their business.

It only gets stressful at home because I get yelled at A LOT for playing japanese music outloud because of the screaming. And once I started plaing j-pop out loud the answer changed to "the languare REALLY disturbs me". Kind of a bummer that after 8 years the language is still an issue for my own mother, but meh.

[apple-wa 10]

21 hours ago, Komorebi said:

And once I started plaing j-pop out loud the answer changed to "the languare REALLY disturbs me". Kind of a bummer that after 8 years the language is still an issue for my own mother, but meh.

 

Wow, how can the language itself disturb someone? I seriously don't understand this.

[helcchi 942]

Not so much for listening to japanese music, but specifically for listening to vk. You sometimes hear that it’s not real music or that artists focus more on their looks than music. And I get that it’s true for some bands, but not all.

 

I know that the majority of vk fans in japan is female, but theoretically if you’re into a certain style of music e.g. symphonic metal or deathcore, it shouldn’t really matter if you’re male of female to enjoy a band like Versailes or nokubura.

 

If we disregard the visual aspect and focus on the music, how much credibility does vk really have? Can the music produced by some vk artists rival those of non vk artists in their respective musical genres? I’d like to think yes but this is purely subjective

Edited December 3, 2016 by helcchi

[saltofstones 136]

What bothers me the most is how an association is being made between myself and the pejorative "Asian music freak" tag by the sheer force of the eccentricity of VK alone, to the point it completely obliterates the fact that I listen to music from all over the world and in many other languages, not just j-music and definitely not just VK. But VK is perceived as being so out there that it automatically becomes a very important aspect of my identity in the views of others i.e. my friends; even if they do know I listen to other stuff too, they choose to disregard it completely when they attempt to label my music tastes. It probably helps that they haven't really come into contact to actual j-music fanatics who wouldn't touch anything non-Japanese with a ten foot pole. I am pretty much the only example of a Japanese music listener they know and automatically assume I am the superlative in that regard. And while I learned to disregard the teasing, I can admit that it still annoys me a little. I actually had a fight with a past friend who would not stop teasing me about not being interested in going to an anime convention. I was labeled a hypocrite for trying to pretend I'm not interested when in reality I am such an Asian fanatic who most definitely likes everything Japanese and just claims not to for the sake of appearances I guess? This was pretty much the worse it ever got when it comes to skewed ideas about my listening to j-music and I do realize it's a matter of what kind of people you have in your social circle like what someone else above said.

 

I've found that others who simply know I'm into Japanese music without knowing exactly to what extent or anything at all about VK really give no damns. It does not register to them in any way other than "uh, that's weird, but whatever you like!" . The least they know the better actually. No one actually tries to pry and find out more. And I've long stopped trying to introduce people to it. When it comes to VK, it's not just the visuals and the language that bother others, but the tone of most vocalists is also one of the biggest "offenders". I kind of like how expectations are subverted whenever I listen to something in perfectly fine English and they dig it only to find out it's Made in Japan, that was fun for a while.

 

 

[Nagisa 131]

Only a few of my friends know what I listen to, and that's because most of them have never asked and I haven't bothered to tell them. But the ones that do know don't really judge me (at least I think they don't) and a few of them even listen to Japanese music themselves. Maybe it's because my friends are mostly Asian.

[Chi 2624]

most people i talk to are open minded when it comes to music so i haven't had that problem in...years

[kawa35 17]

Wow I didn't logged in for a while and you came with a lot of interesting points!

 

I also think language is a main issue. Most of people enjoy music for entertainement but a few are real music lovers, and then the most of listeners are only used to english music and his/her native speaking. Understanding lyrics are not something important in my opinion, many people listen to english music without having an idea about what it means. It is mainly about "pleasure" to the hear because they are used to. 

 

I find it very sad to read stuff like "Frankly, it's not really their business what I listen to anyway." ... Music need to be share to everyone and, with a bit of luck, sharing j-music could reveal new tastes to someone. But I can't blame you because I don't really share to other about J-music. Hearing bad thoughts "forced" me to mostly share more mainstream music, even if I listen a wide variety of types of music. 

 

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

When I bring up a band super infrequently at home, my mom will usually ask me "Is that the one with the guy who died or something?" (referring to Jasmine You) because apparently me telling her about that years ago resonated with her.

 

 

If that's not progress, then I don't know what is.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Peace Heavy mk II

[SadMoomin 289]

Luckily nowadays pretty much everyone around me are enjoys Jrock/Visual kei or they're open minded and respect my tastes despite not being into that. I mostly got negatives comments/reactions/bullying  when I was in high school because sadly most people judges and fear what they don't understand, and don't make efforts to understand either. What bother me the most tho is the people who made racist comments (by example slanting their eyes with their fingers and make stupid voices/accent to make fun of them, ya know what I mean ?) when I tell them I like J-rock. (Tbh I think we all dealt with this awkward situation at least once, eh lol.)  Ah and I won't talk about those annoying people who ask you how you can enjoy the music if you don't understand Japanese, but have the entire discography of Rammstein at home, lmao.  Also thankfully I have a family who always accepted and even showed interest and curiosity about Visual kei/J-rock, and I think it's a good thing.  

 

 

[jduv86 224]

When I listen to kpop or khiphop, people don't seem to care as much because it sounds "american", but for my jrock music - they tend to dismiss it and get confused as to why I'd bother with it. I'm not sure if it's the song structure or the language barrier. 

[Nisshoku 14]

For me, I don't care if I understand the lyrics or not. I feel the music and in my opinion it doesn't matter if you unterstand the lyrics if you listen to the song with your heart. Okay that sounds pretty kitschy but it's the way I listen to music. Most of the time, I don't know what my favourite band is singing about but if you listen to the atmosphere of the music, you can get an image and that's okay for me.

But I have a friend who only likes music with english lyrics. I'm German, so I listen to Rammstein, which is my favourite western band since I was 12. He'd never listen to it. He doesn't like german music. Beside the fact he doesn't understand japanese, there were some moments, he really liked a few songs I was listen to.

 

Another point is, most of the people around me, doesn't know vk or jrock. A few days ago a friend at school looked at my background picture on my phone and for me, it was clear the jrocker (Yuki of ARCHEMI) is a guy but she insisted it is a girl. I showed them a picture of Yuga from Shellmy and they were absolutely sure that's a girl. It was pretty funny. They didn't ask about it and why I like those pictures.

A few years ago, at the high of jrock/vk culture here in Germany, I always got called an 'Emo'. Both scenes were 'famous' at the same time. I guess today nobody really cares what I'm listening to which might be a cause of my age. Most of my friends listen to it, so I don't have any problems and if I get asked about my music taste, I tend to just answer with Metal or japanese Rock. Any more would be too complicated and tbh I'm too lazy to explain vk and stuff xD

[cvltic 1482]

tbh my music friends are mostly online, and my irl friends and i don't talk about it much...? i did take one of them to see Sadie with me when we went to Japan and she didn't have any serious insight but she thinks the concert vibe there is fucking cool.

 

also i did bring a couple of "normies" from my dorm to lynch. shows in Japan. South American male rock musician liked them, Euro female who already enjoys Western hard rock really liked them, Desi female who doesn't listen to much but Western pop & Bollywood songs was intrigued but wished there was less screaming (lol, but she loved SuG because they're cute). but i think since they all came expressly to Japan to study it kind of eliminated any hangups about language because why the fuck would you go there otherwise.

 

in high school if i showed people my favorite bands they would definitely just think of it as like some scene kid shit mixed with some weaboo shit. i hung out with a weird mix of scene kids and nerdy dudes who liked electronic music and they were pretty accepting overall, even if the crossdressing aspect really fucked with them sometimes.