Anyone see this article: `The Story of Visual Kei`?

[Tetora 625]

http://www.timeout.jp/en/tokyo/feature/11233/The-story-of-visual-kei

 

When I started reading this article I knew that it might be `nerd-rage` inducing for some VK fans.

 

Obviously it`s hard for a lot of fans who may be very passionate about something to read someone else`s interpretation of what they love, especially when it is a perceived `outsider`.

 

What do you think of how they covered the subject?

Anything you disagreed with?

 

 

-----

 

Here`s what I posted as a comment, hehe, it gives a hint as to what my thoughts were (it appears that comments need to be verified though, so it`s not up as of me posting this):

 

It`s good to see coverage on Visual Kei, though I don`t agree with all of the information presented, especially the sprinkled on opinions like the whole last paragraph with the Idol comparison, and`Genuine originality seems to be dying out.`or the interpretation of Neo Visual Kei.

Then there are points like Sug, LM.C, etc... `appealed to an increasingly mainstream audience`, bands like X, Luna, Dir en Grey, SID and so forth appealed to an exponentially larger audience as opposed to SuG who as of late released an album that only went to around #30 in the charts, and is being well outsold by Indie bands who are by no measure catering to any mainstream.

As the article is meant to expose newcomers to Visual Kei I think it is misleading, too opinionated, and may give readers false impressions. It would be better to direct readers to find out more about the bands, styles, trends, and so forth and find out for themselves.

Just my opinion as a VK fan. Thanks.

 

Also, at least they got one thing right, IMO,  Hosts and others imitated VK style, not the other way around (unless they are Kameleo or Golden Bomber etc...)
 

 

-----

 

The site seems like it may be interesting for some people, they have different magazines for different cities, here are some other articles you may have seen which I found because Yahoo sucks and couldn`t find what I actually wanted:

 

Popularity of Japanese acts overseas:

http://www.timeout.jp/en/tokyo/feature/10338/Big-in-and-out-of-Japan

 

Lilith:

http://www.timeoutshanghai.com/features/Music-Music_features/19998/Introducing-Lilith.html

[emmny 4139]

not a bad article, and im not expecting a full and accurate history so im not too offended

i completely agree with the last bit, its kind of unnecessary but seems pretty accurate. i dont think its on the level of idols, but VK isnt much more than japanese goth boybands tbh (fight me)

[eiheartx 1310]

SuG, i feel insulted.

[Biopanda 2675]

I didn't think it was terrible, but they seemed to be a bit off on some of their info. Like the fact that oshare was something that only appeared in the mid-2000s, when it was pretty much just a natural progression of white-kei from the 90s(and multiple 90s VK bands out oshare'd most oshare bands XD). Other than that, the fan-service thing was a bit odd. They seemed to be talking about it as something new, while fanservice has ALWAYS been a part of VK down to its early roots.

[Igyou_Hime 80]

To be honest, looking at how VK has been from the start, you can see clear recemblances with the pop industry and that's much because of how the japanese music industry look. Everyone might think that these bands are very individual etc but truth be told many of them obviously want to go on a label for better marketing and well better everything and when you go on a label in Japan they will sort of control the band. I'm writing my thesis partly about VK for the moment and I've read japanese material about the VK scene and also talked with one of my teachers who knows a bit about both japan and music there (not vk though but from the litterature I get the feeling what he had to say about it fits even the VK scene). and I think it's also a cultural thing, you can't get away from the japanese system, and the business-system in japan is probably hard pass by without ending up in the middle.

 

also I have a question I've asked before (not here though I think), does anyone have any japanese source for what oshare kei is? I've tried googling but don't end up with much, also it sort ofsounds weird since the bands usually are very colorful (like an cafe) whereas oshare means dressed up, as in classy dressup...

[Biopanda 2675]

To be honest, looking at how VK has been from the start, you can see clear recemblances with the pop industry and that's much because of how the japanese music industry look. Everyone might think that these bands are very individual etc but truth be told many of them obviously want to go on a label for better marketing and well better everything and when you go on a label in Japan they will sort of control the band. I'm writing my thesis partly about VK for the moment and I've read japanese material about the VK scene and also talked with one of my teachers who knows a bit about both japan and music there (not vk though but from the litterature I get the feeling what he had to say about it fits even the VK scene). and I think it's also a cultural thing, you can't get away from the japanese system, and the business-system in japan is probably hard pass by without ending up in the middle.

 

also I have a question I've asked before (not here though I think), does anyone have any japanese source for what oshare kei is? I've tried googling but don't end up with much, also it sort ofsounds weird since the bands usually are very colorful (like an cafe) whereas oshare means dressed up, as in classy dressup...

 

I don't think the term "oshare kei" is really used all that often in Japan... at least I've almost never seen any bands describe themselves as that. Here's a small japanese-sourced blurb about it though http://vkeiyougo.com/page/o/96.html

[Des 289]

It's not really too opinionated... I think it's quite tame. They could've ripped the entire movement to shreds but instead they only hint of "earlier visual kei was more interesting that today's" and "it's a very commercialised scene" was dropped and it's hard to argue against either of those.

[herpes 1597]

especially the sprinkled on opinions like the whole last paragraph with the Idol comparison, and`Genuine originality seems to be dying out.`or the interpretation of Neo Visual Kei.

 

you may not like it but it's true, neo visual kei is a void of originality and a garbage hole of recycled ideas

 

ok article though, reads like a 9th grader reworded the wiki page.

[Naaaaani 1172]

Saw the photo of X and then closed the article

[Takadanobabaalien 3607]

I don't think the term "oshare kei" is really used all that often in Japan... 

My impression as well. All my Japanese friends who I said "oshare kei" too when referring to oshare kei bands has asked me if I mean "kirakira" which basically means sparkling/glittering.

 

Regarding the article, not far off but also far from spot on, imo. 

 

btw the first time visual kei as a word was used in media was 21st january of 1991 in Shoxx (https://twitter.com/lucys2000/status/580575667777077248).

The guy who wrote that article says that he got the phrase from hide or Hoshiko (known as visualkei oyaji on twitter) though lol. 

[Pretsy 1343]

I don't want to sound mean but that article felt like any poor journo take on VK I've read back in those Nordic weeaboo/animu mags circa '05-06 a.k.a the first wave of European vk exposure :/

 

A question though:

 

Whoever is able to read Japanese much better than I do, are there any confirmations on whether there are new, "widely accepted" vk subgenres (as in to the point of Shoxx or Cure using them on a normal basis these days)? The word in 2ch (which I don't really find plausible to begin with) says that "host kei" MIGHT be a "legit thing" now? The absurd thing here is that this "presumed subgenre" doesn't really define any specific musical characteristics, unlike say angura, oshare or even kotekote :/

[Tetora 625]

To be honest, looking at how VK has been from the start, you can see clear recemblances with the pop industry and that's much because of how the japanese music industry look. Everyone might think that these bands are very individual etc but truth be told many of them obviously want to go on a label for better marketing and well better everything and when you go on a label in Japan they will sort of control the band. I'm writing my thesis partly about VK for the moment and I've read japanese material about the VK scene and also talked with one of my teachers who knows a bit about both japan and music there (not vk though but from the litterature I get the feeling what he had to say about it fits even the VK scene). and I think it's also a cultural thing, you can't get away from the japanese system, and the business-system in japan is probably hard pass by without ending up in the middle.

 

 

The music industry shares many similarities between scenes and genres worldwide. We can bring up similarities between Visual Kei and Pop in the obvious, natural way, or we can try and push some kind of spin on it where the similarities are not natural, and are somehow a part of some `negative` part of Visual Kei, which makes no sense when actually broken down. There`s not much I can find that is exclusive to Visual Kei in terms of their dealings with the record industry that we haven`t seen and heard about, even in much larger degrees in other scenes and genres, even Punk artists signed to major labels, and `Gangster` rappers under major labels as well. Just seems like a lame pot-shot at Visual Kei in general, which people seem to love doing, along with being cynical about the whole thing, but that isn`t exclusive to the Visual Kei fanbase either. But on the other hand, had the article been about some other cultural or subcultural aspects, I am sure they would be much more inclined to just give people straight information instead of unsubstantiated rhetoric.

 

And let`s not forget the Indie artists outselling many major Rock artists at the moment, and staying on their Indie labels...

 

you may not like it but it's true, neo visual kei is a void of originality and a garbage hole of recycled ideas

 

 

Yes, and we can take almost anything and lay the same sassy rhetoric on it (and I know to not take what you say as dead-serious, but I`m going to go on anyway):

 

Old-School Visual Kei is a void of originality, and a garbage hole of rehashed New Wave, Grunge Goth Mall Metal with some JPop hooks thrown in for posterity.

 

Classic Rock is a void of originality and a garbage hole of ripped off Blues ideas this time brought to you by a white-man.

 

This era of `Classical` music is a void of originality, and a garbage hole of proletariat musical theory as well as recycled ideas from this other age of `Classical` music.

 

And so forth.

 

Yet people usually have the inclination in those cases to guess that the people talking are just going on in a pointless diatribe based on some temporary need to feel that their favorite music or era is the best.

 

Although that`s not always the case. Sometimes it might just be a case of not knowing what you don`t know.

 

Sometimes you just have to wonder what credentials people feel are necessary to make a statement on something. And it seems like downloading a few releases out of the hundreds, and clicking on a few PV spots gives people enough wisdom to go out to the Town Square and give their decree to the world.

 

Can the people harping on about their lack of esteem for Indie bands name the top VK Indie bands?

 

Can people even nail down Neo-Visual Kei so that they can make a statement on it?

 

Is it not obvious that without some actual measures and reasoning, almost all discussions of originality or value in Art are rhetoric and opinionated?

 

It would be nice to actually have discussions where people can just accept that people like different era`s of the music, different bands, etc... And not try and generalize things or try to departmentalize Visual Kei or it`s sub-genre`s.

 

Whether the poster I replied to is trolling or not, the post represents the actual way a lot of people `discuss` Visual Kei, and obviously only a certain small crowd of people want to read through how `Visual Kei isn`t original, it sucks now, I don`t like this band so they suck, it`s all about the looks, etc...` every single time they even think of clicking on a web page that includes the words `Visual Kei`.

 

And I also would like it if the bigger fans who seem to actually seem to be way more into than most, expressed themselves more (whether the lack is due to no interest, or not feeling comfortable, I don`t know.)

 

Just my thoughts. I posted the thread to see if it could spring-board into something interesting. But it seems like at most it`ll go down the same road. Ah well.

 

And in response to Perez. I have all the latest Cure and Shoxx, never saw anything about any relatively `new` subgenres, though I don`t always read the whole mag.

[Igyou_Hime 80]

What I meant was that many people who aren't that well informed might think that rock is all about being rebel and going your own path, without listening to orders and because of that since VK is connected to rock music might think VK musicians are all about going their own way etc and I don't think that's very likely. And in japan maybe more than anywhere else everything which has something to do with bands etc is very controled. (I hope I make sense...I'm very tired so I'm not even sure of what I just wrote XD)

[doombox 4421]

It reads to me like something written by someone who isn't much of a VK fan and did a handful of research before writing this article making sure to base their descriptions through the small list of bands they know. X, Diru, Sug. Then threw in some basic wiki article fluff to sound 'verified' and passed it off as expert opinion. Yes, some of the history lined up but a fan of the genre could give a much better review of the history and how visual kei specific labels work. As well as the scenes in general which felt glossed over (probably because the writer had little knowledge of them to begin with).

With that said, it' still not a bad introductory piece for someone who is interested in learning about visual kei, but I'd say it's a starting point to digging for their own information... definitely not something to take too seriously.

And to add, does the 'new school' of bands feel more generic and less creative in than the 'originals'? Yeah, sure... everything does, in basically every genre. When something stops being underground and starts including pop music influence, that's generally what happens. That doesn't mean there still aren't a ton of great bands making music, though. There's just a ton of clone bands to wade through before you find them, and I think that's the part people tend to get lost in.

[herpes 1597]

 

Yes, and we can take almost anything and lay the same sassy rhetoric on it (and I know to not take what you say as dead-serious, but I`m going to go on anyway):

 

Old-School Visual Kei is a void of originality, and a garbage hole of rehashed New Wave, Grunge Goth Mall Metal with some JPop hooks thrown in for posterity.

 

Classic Rock is a void of originality and a garbage hole of ripped off Blues ideas this time brought to you by a white-man.

 

This era of `Classical` music is a void of originality, and a garbage hole of proletariat musical theory as well as recycled ideas from this other age of `Classical` music.

 

lol I can't even argue with someone deluded enough to believe that there's no originality in this era of classical music (ades, muhly, luther adams would like to speak with you)

 

(also "proletariat musical theory", lol what? calm down lenin)

 

it's v cute that you try and discredit my opinion with some ad hominems and some strawman arguments tho!! keep on believing that whoever is headlining takadanobaba area to 40 mitsu and has a half page spread in cure is the future of music 

[Tetora 625]

lol I can't even argue with someone deluded enough to believe that there's no originality in this era of classical music (ades, muhly, luther adams would like to speak with you)

 

(also "proletariat musical theory", lol what? calm down lenin)

 

it's v cute that you try and discredit my opinion with some ad hominems and some strawman arguments tho!! keep on believing that whoever is headlining takadanobaba area to 40 mitsu and has a half page spread in cure is the future of music 

 

 

There seems to be some confusion here.

 

First of all, as we know, ad hominem is more along the lines of attacking someone or something`s character or attributes when it is not pertinent to the argument, and merely a insult for the sake of throwing an insult. I didn`t attempt to make such an argument in my previous post, and the latter of it was about some of the fandom in general, not you in particular as I do not know you.

But back to ad hominem, this form of `argument` falls more closely in line with calling someone an idiot instead of simply providing a counter-point to someone`s perspective, or, for example, calling someone deluded, drawing unsubstantiated comparisons like referring to someone as Lenin, and so forth. It also can be found in the same area as statements which use terms such as `garbage hole`.

 

As for the strawman arguments, I`m not certain what you are referring to as you don`t seem to want to mention them, or provide a counter-argument to them. I would consider a strawman argument something along the lines of your statement about Takadanobaba, which I never mentioned, and `the future of music` which I never mentioned either, and made no claims about. I also don`t see how any discussion of originality, creativity, value, would be inherently linked to speaking of the future of anything. The discussion did not go in that direction. I`m more than willing to give my full thoughts on any matter, so I don`t think we need to make assumptions, or put words into my mouth.

 

Regarding the classical music thing, I wrote this:

 

Yes, and we can take almost anything and lay the same sassy rhetoric on it (and I know to not take what you say as dead-serious, but I`m going to go on anyway):

 

 

And so forth.

 

Yet people usually have the inclination in those cases to guess that the people talking are just going on in a pointless diatribe based on some temporary need to feel that their favorite music or era is the best.

 

 

To signify that I was not displaying my own opinions, simply giving the same examples for different areas of music, and the criticism they have faced, which many people, including you, as you have proved, disagree with, in the same way that someone may disagree that Older Visual Kei has more value, creativity, etc... per square bandmember.

 

All the examples listed are indeed actual arguments made throughout the ages, and the same arguments have been made during every shift in what people now cast under the vastly liberal term of `classical`. They have been made by regular listeners, highly esteemed critics, highly esteemed musicians, and so forth.

 

And no, this is not a simple comparison that puts Rock and Baroque side by side, it`s a demonstration of how the same tired argument has dragged on for ages, yet every time their is a shift, many people seem to say `every time the argument was made before, it was wrong, but this time, it`s right`.

 

Anyway, hopefully that clears it all up, I`m here to discuss things, and share my interest in Visual Kei, etc... Not to feud over matters or get too far away from the point. I think your last remarks were more based around confusion in my earlier post.

 

Hopefully we can move forward, and if there are future posts, they will move thoroughly address previously made points and we can stay even more on topic.

 

Thanks.

[wesjrocker 21]

It isn't a bad article, there are both good and bad points of view in any music scene.

Has anyone seen this interview about the visual kei industry ?

http://www.hellodamage.com/top/2010/03/01/interview-with-an-ex-visual-kei-record-executive/

[Zeus 7997]

It isn't a bad article, there are both good and bad points of view in any music scene.

Has anyone seen this interview about the visual kei industry ?

http://www.hellodamage.com/top/2010/03/01/interview-with-an-ex-visual-kei-record-executive/

I've seen this before when MH was called Tainted World and my name was yellow. We came to a consensus on how many grains of salt to take that interview with, but I don't remember what we decided on exactly.

[Biopanda 2675]

I've seen this before when MH was called Tainted World and my name was yellow. We came to a consensus on how many grains of salt to take that interview with, but I don't remember what we decided on exactly.

I think the answer was "3 or 4".

[seikun 317]

I can't read the article. "Not Found"

[Nagisa 131]

Same. Would have been an interesting read, I think.

[Zeus 7997]

I got you guys.
 

The story of visual kei

The glories, the tragedies and how these glammed-up rockers have kept their fans coming back for more

 

 

 

Picture the scene: the bass player is dressed in a silver crop top and hot pants paired with thigh-high, heeled boots. The drummer’s waist-length, rainbow-coloured hair flails around an outfit of leather bondage gear with every thumping beat. The guitarist plays a wild shredding solo in a Marie Antoinette-style ball gown complete with wig and feathers. The singer winks a fake eyelashed eye from behind wisps of striking white hair before launching into death shrieks and erotic moans.

 

It would be easy to presume at least one of these band members we’re describing is a woman, or that they’re playing at a Halloween hair metal concert in 1987 – or even that this is some kind of performance art show. In fact, this is a fairly typical gig in the modern Japanese world of visual rock, with ‘visual’ being the operative word. Every weekend, at venues across Shinjuku, Shibuya and Ikebukuro, bands like this entertain a giddy crowd of almost entirely female fans who express their adoration through furious, synchronised arm movements and co-ordinated hair thrashing. This, oh wide eyed reader, is the intriguing world of visual kei.

 

Visual kei (meaning ‘visual style’, with the ‘kei’ pronounced ‘k’) is a musical genre – and beyond that a subculture – which grew out of a tangled mix of glam rock, punk and new wave influences, combined with kabuki theatre and shojo (manga for young women).

 

Heavy metal band X Japan, formed in 1982, are widely considered the pioneers of the genre and are also credited with originating the name, which was presumably adopted from their slogan, ‘Psychedelic violence crime of visual shock’. Notorious for their gravity-defying hairstyles, flamboyant clothes and outrageous make-up – which could be interpreted as both warrior-like and hyper-feminine – they predictably shocked parents whilst enthralling teenagers across the nation. Along with bands such as Buck-Tick and D’erlanger, X Japan introduced the country to shocking new visuals and sounds. They kickstarted a movement that saw musicians exploring the boundaries of excess, explicitness and androgyny while providing a unique take on Western music styles.

 

Although the music is generally described as heavy rock or metal (including everything from punk to power metal, and later nu-metal, hip-hop, electro and pop), visual kei actually spans a vast array of genres and continues to evolve. A better defining factor is, perhaps, the aesthetics. Dark, gothic, historical and traditional influences are common, and large elements of the look are comparable to the Western rocker styles of yesteryear: big hair, matching leather outfits and elaborate stage costumes.

 

While LA glam metal or the New York Dolls might have experimented with lipstick and lace, visual kei goes one step further in blurring the genders through cross-dressing and androgyny. It’s a theme that works for many of the bands’ story concepts, and also supports the Japanese appetite for idols and appreciation of male beauty and youth. These musicians aren’t just ‘guys in a band’, they’re a real-life representation of the unattainable princes in a girl’s comic book, combined with something cool and exciting. Maybe an ageless bisexual vampire or a fantastical erotic space pirate or a dazzling rock angel… you get the idea

 

It was in the mid-’90s that the visual scene really took off, with the likes of cross-dressing Shazna (partly inspired by Boy George) and classically influenced Francophiles Malice Mizer, who along with La’cryma Christi and Fanatic Crisis earned themselves the combined nickname ‘The four heavenly kings’. The scene started to become known for its passionate fans who immersed themselves in the subculture, bringing gifts to concerts, cosplaying to look like the band members and establishing strict gig etiquette.

 

However, at the same time, groups such as Luna Sea and Glay were toning down their look in order to appeal to a more mainstream market, and X Japan members had begun concentrating on solo careers. X Japan officially disbanded in 1997, and a year later, lead guitarist Hide, 33, was found dead in an apparent suicide, devastating his many fans. More than 50,000 people attended his funeral and numerous copycat suicides were reported.

 

Further tragedies would occur with the early deaths of Raphael’s 19-year-old guitarist Kazuki, just as the band was rising to fame in 2000, and the 1999 death of Malice Mizer’s drummer Kami, 27, just a few months after the abrupt departure of singer Gackt.

 

Despite the loss of these stars and the constantly changing lineups and break-ups, there was still a regular stream of newcomers. Monthly visual kei magazines (many of which continue today) and TV shows helped to perpetuate the movement, whether underground or in the charts. As anime’s popularity grew overseas, so did visual kei’s, with groups like Dir En Grey, The Gazette and Versailles in particular garnering attention in Europe and X Japan shocked parents and enthralled teenagers the US. Their main appeal? The uniqueness of the music, which features unusual chord progressions and timing, and of course their exotic visual aesthetic, which mirrors that of anime characters.

 

The scene continued to diversify throughout the 2000s with wider musical crossovers and a constant push for visual innovation. Subgenres were defined – and debated. For example, angura kei (‘angura’ stems from ‘underground’) was the name given to bands that used traditional Japanese themes or uniforms, such as kimonos. Meanwhile, eroguro kei (taken from a combination of ‘erotic’ and ‘grotesque’) was for groups like Cali≠gari and early Dir En Grey, who incorporated disturbing horror themes and shock tactics into their stage shows, artwork and music videos. Kurofuku kei, on the other hand, was for groups who favoured classic but edgy all-black clothing.

 

Many bands formed in the mid-2000s or later are described as neo visual kei, a label that perhaps marks the point at which the focus changed from the music to the marketability of the group. This period saw the introduction of oshare (‘fashionable’) kei, used to describe a new style of pop-influenced visual bands with lighter themes and more playful looks. Bands like An Cafe, LM.C and Sug introduced a friendlier side of visual kei and appealed to an increasingly mainstream audience. Sug frontman Takeru even launched his own fashion label, Million $ Orchestra, in 2010 – a clever move, since visual kei has always had a strong influence on Japanese street style as well as host club fashion.

 

The visual kei movement today is basically a parallel of the J-pop idol system, which encourages a kind of pseudo intimacy between artists and fans – for example, by giving rewards to the most loyal fans, or rather to those who spend the most money. Bands are expected to take a hands-on approach to marketing, engaging in ‘fan service’ – which could be anything from uploading photos and videos on social media to acting out homoerotic role-plays on stage. For a movement that originally prided itself on being different, it now attracts those who want to ‘look’ visual kei. Genuine originality (in the music, at least) seems to be dying out. But the fans are still screaming, and that’s what counts. Isn’t it?

This article originally appeared in the spring 2015 issue of Time Out Tokyo magazine.

[Nagisa 131]

Thanks for posting the text of the article Zeus. Is it true that most of the fans (at least at lives )are females? Never been to one before so I am curious.

[Biopanda 2675]

Thanks for posting the text of the article Zeus. Is it true that most of the fans (at least at lives )are females? Never been to one before so I am curious.

It's very much true. Of the 20+ concerts I went to while I was there, at all but maybe 3 of them I was the only guy in the audience :x