Live limited releases

[Zeus 7997]

It's too bad that Bandcamp is not popular in Japan! I think it would be absolutely awesome if VK bands distributed live-limited material (at the very least) on Bandcamp! The bands can distribute it themselves entirely, I guess commissions are low (all BC does is take 10-15% commission), people can choose to pay more than asking price for many releases (a fan can choose to pay ¥7,500 instead of ¥750), and I honestly can't see something like this doing significant harm to demand for the physical CD. There are collectors and dedicated fans alike who will still want a physical copy, instead of the digital version.

Would it be cool? Totally, but then by definition it wouldn't be a live-limited release anymore. Live-limited releases derive most of their value from being difficult to acquire, especially when songs on that release don't make a reappearance.

[lichtlune 915]

Would re-releasing live limited stuff on a cd pack later honestly stop people from going to lives? Would people wait 2 or 3 + more years instead of just getting it at a show? I understand the reasoning for live limited stuff but when it's live limited forever then It becomes completely obscure and essentially doesn't exist anymore. I just want to be able to hear it SOME DAY even if I have to wait 10 years. It's better than the music vanishing forever if you don't get it at the right time. 

[Seimeisen 4406]

Would re-releasing live limited stuff on a cd pack later honestly stop people from going to lives? Would people wait 2 or 3 + more years instead of just getting it at a show? I understand the reasoning for live limited stuff but when it's live limited forever then It becomes completely obscure and essentially doesn't exist anymore.

I sort of agree. Although live-limited pre-sale may not garner as many attendees as live-limited; in the setting of a live-limited pre-sale, a lot of people would probably wait for the "public," nation-wide release.

With the Bandcamp idea I came up with, the physical copy would still be live limited. There would be a live-limited edition, and a digital download only edition. A digital release wouldn't make the physical package any more accessible.

I understand the gimmick of live limited releases, that to be able to obtain a studio recording of that song, you HAVE to get it on THIS CD, AT THIS show, and in most cases, ONLY ON THIS date. As much as I want a band that I like to succeed, I sometimes wish they didn't feel the need to do live limited releases. I thought the digital distribution idea would have been a "happy medium." Collectors, rabid stans, and/or people who simply dislike digital download will still wanna get a physical copy. People that cannot attend the shows (or discover the band's music at a later time) will still have some sort of opportunity to hear the music and throw money at it (that goes to the band instead of some auction seller).

I understand that a lot of people like live-limited releases, but I don't. I feel bitter when one is announced, especially when fans gush over how it's such wonderful news. But I am heavily biased, as a foreign fan that tends to discover bands years after they form and gain popularity, and I don't have any contacts that are in Japan and in the "VK fandom." Seeing a live-limited CD get as expensive as ¥15,000-30,000. makes me very unhappy.

[yakihiko 1480]

I understand to a certain point, small bands to release live limited, it's ok to them, but they could at least release it later on a normal album. I'm still looking for 2 live singles since 2012 from CrazyShampoo XD

But I thing, honestly I don't get, why BORN going to celebrate 7 years in 2015 to release 3 live limited singles? I know they are on PSC Indie, but they have a group of fans outside Japan, right? I want that songs on a future album *-*

(I used BORN as an example)

[Tetora 625]

I`m not seeing the problem here.

 

It`s very easy to get most live-limited stuff using the shops that deal with them, and auctions. I get almost all of my stuff (live-limited, regular, etc...) from three sites. And if you ever make a trip you can raid brick-and-mortar locations for tons of live-limited and semi-rare to rare stuff (though I know this isn`t an option for all).

 

I think there is about one cd I haven`t gotten that I want in the past year or two? And it just came out, so I know it will eventually pop up and I`ll get that too.

 

They`re not as rare as some may make them seem, and I have also gotten limited stuff from years ago still in original packaging (no, not re-packaged).

 

They still have somewhat of a semi-exclusive feel, and along with their whole marketing purpose this is part of the appeal.

 

Many people whether they admit it or not enjoy the value they may find in a limited release, especially with the collector`s appeal built into the Japanese market, which is often passed on to foreign fans.

 

To take that away takes away part of the value of the release, part of the excitement of obtaining it, and an interesting side of collecting music, not to mention the whole collector`s value of the thing you are trying to... collect.

 

From what I see, many people are fine downloading the tons of live-limited releases that eventually get uploaded on the net, deflating the actual number of releases that they don`t have some sort of access to. This also makes me wonder why some fans feel they should be able to request changes in the band and studio`s practices, when they often don`t respect them in the first place.

 

There are also some releases that do compile rare material, there are live video`s available which feature these songs, and there is the opinion some could have that many live-limited releases aren`t really the same quality as standard releases anyway.

 

I also disagree with the vision some may have of `the perfect world` where certain sometimes practical, sometimes idealist, sometimes head-scratching changes are suggested, which don`t seem to offer any improvement or gain for the band, any effort by the consumer, and any compensation for collector`s (who are most of the people still buying cd`s in 2015 and supporting the industry in Japan).

 

This isn`t even close to the worst time to be a frugal fan or collector in any case, since the internet including uploads has made it a million times easier to get what you want, as opposed to being a fan of The Rolling Stones back in the day, and having to find out about rare releases the hard way with extensive research, finding a way to buy albums exclusive to US, UK, or Japan which were either completely exclusive works, had a bonus track not available anywhere else, different artwork, etc...

 

Things were a lot more expensive and difficult back then. Buying a CD off of Yahoo with a site that can do it for you, while using an online payment system that protects your finances is a cakewalk in comparison to being a fan back then, where a rare release may actually never be in your hands, and you may never even find someone who has it.

This also shows how VK artists aren`t exactly the most difficult bands to deal with in history, considering it once cost you an arm and a leg for a release by one of the most popular bands of all time... If you were lucky enough to get a chance to obtain it.

 

Probably more I wanted to say, or I could have wrote that more legibly, but whatever.

 

CLIFFS:

 

Not that hard to get most live-limited stuff.

Live-limited releases have more appeal, especially to the actual measurable fanbase rather than the five people spread across the world who maybe, might, one-day, pay for it if it was easier to obtain.

It`s not the worst of times to be a collector of music.

[shinobu. 252]

 

 

Not that hard to get most live-limited stuff.

Live-limited releases have more appeal, especially to the actual measurable fanbase rather than the five people spread across the world who maybe, might, one-day, pay for it if it was easier to obtain.

It`s not the worst of times to be a collector of music.

 

 

If I may ask... Which sites do you use to purchase live-limited releases? I've only used Puresound. 

[hiroki 5521]

i kinda understand why people would feel frustrated at live-limited releases, cuz it happens to me a lot as well. i've already explained why i feel live-limited releases are justified so i won't repeat myself here.

i agree with tetora's points, except i would also add that the difficulty of procuring a live-limited release varies with a lot of factors, e.g. how popular the band is (obviously the most important), performance venue and capacity, etc. it also matters a great deal whether the release is distributed to everyone at the live, or distributed to those who enter under the band's name, or sold at the band's merchandise table, or (god forbid) as a A賞 "lottery prize" for 500-yen-per-draw ガチャガチャ etc. therefore while i won't furrow my brows too much over blu-billion or born releasing live-limited stuff, since i know these would be circulated rather healthily and comparatively easy to find, bands who have 5-10 fans doing the same make me want to kill them.

having said all of that, i would love to see some changes in how live-limited releases are managed if/when bands go down that route:

1) bands need to enforce purchase limits better. to give a concrete example, during anfiel's first live on 1/22 the band released 100 copies of their demo single (1st press). when sales started, "fans" at the front of the queue were buying 5-10 copies each to sell on auctions after the live, and as a result the CD sold out before people at the back could reach the table. in the end it was a lose-lose situation for both the deeply embarrassed band and their grumpy fans who weren't able to get the CD after paying for the live ticket, with the shameless resellers being the sole beneficiaries of what was a poorly-managed situation.

2) bands should explore online distribution avenues e.g. mail order or webshop. for smaller bands who don't have the manpower or desire to deal with logistics involved in distributing their CDs through physical shops, or don't want their profit margin cut into by these people, ought to consider mail order or webshop sales as viable alternatives. i think of this as some sort of a compromise between live-limited releases and "流通盤" (cds distributed country-wide through shops) as far as physical CDs are concerned, since they are more "exclusive" than the latter but not as inaccessible as the former. trance note did that for their 1st single, and i think it worked out pretty well. digital music is another possibility of course, although i don't have much to add to what Seimeisen has said on that.

3) NO live-limited best-of albums please, tyvm. imo this is the biggest troll move ever (i'm looking at CodeRebirth, forte, POPCORE, AsteL, etc.). if anything, bands that mainly subsist on live-limited materials through their entire history should consider making their best-of more accessible, not less! finally, no less annoying than these are the hugely elaborate schemes where fans have to go to specific lives to get "exchange coupons", amass a number of them, and exchange these for a CD of an unreleased song at the band's tour final.

[lichtlune 915]

I understand some live limited stuff. I'm perfectly fine with it as long as the music doesn't become too obscure  and disappears forever. The main issue I have is when bands release ALL of their material as live limited. Isn't that a bit excessive? But I guess It's the best way to get people to come to their shows though. I hope to hear eriza's stuff among a few others soon. 

[Biopanda 2675]

CLIFFS:

 

Not that hard to get most live-limited stuff.

Live-limited releases have more appeal, especially to the actual measurable fanbase rather than the five people spread across the world who maybe, might, one-day, pay for it if it was easier to obtain.

It`s not the worst of times to be a collector of music.

I think this really depends, even for big bands. While trying to get the latest live-distributed DVD from Kameleo, it took me nearly a year to even find a copy being sold even though it was given away at a sold-out oneman. There's been plenty of other instances where I've been trying to find live-limited things that were never shared online(or even in the hands of traders) that are well over 5-7 years old by now. Had these been available even by mail-order, I would have ordered them without hesitation.

 

Besides that, I think the biggest problem is with live-limited/live-distributed DVDs. While live-limited music generally does get online in one form or another, DVDs almost never get uploaded(I guess because it's a bit more complicated and time-consuming then tossing a CD in a drive and ripping in itunes?) and given the medium, I don't think I've ever seen an instance where the content from a live-limited DVD ended up on any other release so if you don't find a copy of the DVD then you're completely SOL.

[BrenGun 2261]

Thats right.

sometimes you simply never see a RARE in a shop or at auction website.

For me its even impossible to get all CQ releases. since all Japanese fans are "true" fans. They don't really drop something at a shop. or sell it online of those things which are rare.

I only see the multiply albums which people bought to get all bonus DVD/CD/stuff. But the real rareness nope its not there.

 

Also then you have bands... you can buy the rare but then you pay more than 10000 yen to even WIN the battle with someone ()

 

 

 

Also many Japanese fans don't even know how to RIP a DVD. ^^" some even don't know how to rip a CD.

And there are fans who don't even have a PC or LAPTOP to rip it... XD

[Owl 347]

1) bands need to enforce purchase limits better. to give a concrete example, during anfiel's first live on 1/22 the band released 100 copies of their demo single (1st press). when sales started, "fans" at the front of the queue were buying 5-10 copies each to sell on auctions after the live, and as a result the CD sold out before people at the back could reach the table. in the end it was a lose-lose situation for both the deeply embarrassed band and their grumpy fans who weren't able to get the CD after paying for the live ticket, with the shameless resellers being the sole beneficiaries of what was a poorly-managed situation.

I wonder what do they think while selling 10 cds to one person. That they buy it for their 9 friends?

If bands use live-limited cds as a bait why don't they exchange them for tickets?

 

 

Also many Japanese fans don't even know how to RIP a DVD. ^^" some even don't know how to rip a CD.

And there are fans who don't even have a PC or LAPTOP to rip it... XD

Oh well! And how do they listen to it? Only at home? Don't tell me they still use portable cd players. 

[BrenGun 2261]

@owl some really still only use portable CD/DVD player....