My Opinion on Nocturnal Bloodlust`s Recent Remarks and Actions against `Piracy`

[nekkichi 6043]

some of the more popular bands can get 3000+ DLs http://monochrome-heaven.com/index.php?/topic/26224-uploaders-caf%C3%A9/?hl=uploader

 

that is roughly $100k assuming an album is ~$30, that figure is one that is tracked though. It is probably more with the untracked ones. You can imagine it would add up.

 

I'm not fine with the assumption that 3k downloads absolutely equals 3k instant preorders

[JukaForever 758]

pre-orders? the typical price range of an album from my experience is $30....ok minus 2 dollars since I am using CAD

[nekkichi 6043]

3k downloads ≠ 3k lost obligatory sales

 

like, gathering scrobbling data on the popular releases for a few weeks after could give a more or less accurate idea of how much replay time those releases are getting

 

chances are a lot of downloaders won't give a lot of that stuff more than one or two spins before deleting it and never bothering w. it again

[JukaForever 758]

lol that is because that practice of "try all the songs before you buy" is a newer one. I am assuming, with the insistence of Japan to still be CD driven, the intent for you to buy the whole thing is to get access to all its songs. I used to get burned by terrible releases before this internet sharing thing, I had to eat the reality of working 3hrs (8dollars/hr) was for nothing. 

 

I get your point though, it does makes sense.

[Brandon 18]

The secret is at least support your favorite band with your money.
That's all.

[kurenaishineek 646]

1st if i would pay the band then of course , but im feeding the band but the corporations who are like fukin parasites sucking out the life of use the buyers and the music makers as well . So feeding a corporation with shitloads of money and still being fukin greedy for more is a big HELL NO!!!!!!!!! for me .

2nd let them do what ever they want , they are a good band , but they want to kill themselves with this so who cares , im not really gonna cry after them if they disband , cause there are soooo many other bands who are good , who dont fight piracy and some of them are even free to listen legally .

3rd to say more about what was started in 2nd part , there are more and more band who turn to distibuting their music via soundcloud , bandcamp and other sites for free or for really low prices that even itunes can hide , and they want to compete against that with anti piracy stuff ? HAHA yeah good luck with that .

4th started as a good non vk DIY deathcore band , turned into a corporation puppet vk band , R.I.P. Nocturnal Bloodlust this is what will be next .

5th bands get only a really small percent of the cd's price so and selling albums was NEVER an income for any band , the real incomes are live , show performances and other stuff . My friend who has now a rather popular band said that lives and show performances are almost 90% of the bands income .

Summary Nocturnal Bloodlust is getting greedy for that 10% or they getting less popular and they cant get much attention on lives so they trying to hold on to something as long as they can .

[kurenaishineek 646]

lol that is because that practice of "try all the songs before you buy" is a newer one. I am assuming, with the insistence of Japan to still be CD driven, the intent for you to buy the whole thing is to get access to all its songs. I used to get burned by terrible releases before this internet sharing thing, I had to eat the reality of working 3hrs (8dollars/hr) was for nothing. 

 

I get your point though, it does makes sense.

3 Hours of work for one CD ? Man if i would have that great , my payment is not really the lowest in my country yet to buy a japanese CD i would need a good 10 days of working for 8 hours a day to afford at least one CD+shipping cost . Some bands like Crossfaith released their CD in europe and its cheaper yet it still is a good 2 days each 8 hours of work to afford that one . Not to mention , the bands get only a small percent of that price .

[JukaForever 758]

3 Hours of work for one CD ? Man if i would have that great , my payment is not really the lowest in my country yet to buy a japanese CD i would need a good 10 days of working for 8 hours a day to afford at least one CD+shipping cost . Some bands like Crossfaith released their CD in europe and its cheaper yet it still is a good 2 days each 8 hours of work to afford that one . Not to mention , the bands get only a small percent of that price .

 

Not to be offensive but that would be like less than $5/hr ???!!! Where do you live? That's low enough to warrant a workers union to lobby for a fixed hourly pay or something.

 

My first job was picking berries at a of rate 40 cents/pound, I could roughly do $40 in like 6 hrs, I would be too tired to do more than that since harvest season is in the middle of the summer and it gets hot. 10 yrs ago, album CDs costed like $20 +/- 5 so I could do like 2 CDs/day if I was super motivated and worked extra hard. Lol, the only reason I worked under the legal age was to buy CD or movies. By the time, I was legal, I could do full time(8hr/day) in the summer and part time(~4hrs/day) during school time with a fixed hourly pay of at least $8.50, FINALLY. 

[kurenaishineek 646]

Not to be offensive but that would be like less than $5/hr ???!!! Where do you live? That's low enough to warrant a workers union to lobby for a fixed hourly pay or something.

 

My first job was picking berries at a of rate 40 cents/pound, I could roughly do $40 in like 6 hrs, I would be too tired to do more than that since harvest season is in the middle of the summer and it gets hot. 10 yrs ago, album CDs costed like $20 +/- 5 so I could do like 2 CDs/day if I was super motivated and worked extra hard. Lol, the only reason I worked under the legal age was to buy CD or movies. By the time, I was legal, I could do full time(8hr/day) in the summer and part time(~4hrs/day) during school time with a fixed hourly pay of at least $8.50, FINALLY. 

I live in Poland and im being paid the lowest legal pay , recalculating this to dollars its 2,50 dollar per hour . THe monthly pay is barely enough to pay the rent and other bills like electicity , water and so on , and almost nothing is left for living . The only thing cheap in this fukin dumb country is the internet , and its the only good thing in a life worth totally nothing .

[JukaForever 758]

Damn, that is hard a life. Hope it gets better for you.

[Nyasagi 259]

I also live in Poland and working for 10 days would be enough to buy a few CDs with a separate shipping, so you have to work part time if you say it's 10 days... the lowest legal pay is 1181,38pln (approx. $400), so working for 10 days full time is 590pln (approx. $200). Where do you buy expensive CDs like that???

 

Also, where did you get the cheap internet from? XDDD The cheapest one costs 50pln and that's not cheap at all...

 

But I agree about the salary, it's often NOT enough to pay your bills, actually :/. Juka, it wouldn't work to protest about this, because the government gives no fucks about people in my country. We could protest all we want and they would just say some bullshit on tv to keep their ugly asses safe, while in fact they would totally ignore the problem. Like ACTA, there were huge protests against it, but what did they do? They signed it.

[kurenaishineek 646]

I also live in Poland and working for 10 days would be enough to buy a few CDs with a separate shipping, so you have to work part time if you say it's 10 days... the lowest legal pay is 1181,38pln (approx. $400), so working for 10 days full time is 590pln (approx. $200). Where do you buy expensive CDs like that???

 

Also, where did you get the cheap internet from? XDDD The cheapest one costs 50pln and that's not cheap at all...

 

But I agree about the salary, it's often NOT enough to pay your bills, actually :/. Juka, it wouldn't work to protest about this, because the government gives no fucks about people in my country. We could protest all we want and they would just say some bullshit on tv to keep their ugly asses safe, while in fact they would totally ignore the problem. Like ACTA, there were huge protests against it, but what did they do? They signed it.

1st Doujin republic , the cd would cost from 90 to 120 PLN for one CD + the shipping cost is almost the same as the cost of the CD (around 100 PLN) . In most cases it would get up to 4-5 times the cost of a CD here in Poland , so as long as the CD's are not released here im not intending to buy them cause they are just tooo freakin expensive . And yeah 5 days would be enough , for only the CDs but you are not living only from CDs you need to pay the billss and buy at least some food . Thats why ive said 10 days .

2nd Lan internet , fast and cheap im paying less than 50 PLN , also ive read of cheaper and faster internet from other providers for less than 30 PLN for LTE . But only in bigger cities .

3rd yep they signed ACTA , but they where hit badly with the protests and like most countrys they are hesitating to bring it in , they just signed that they are ready for ACTA , not that they are gonna start using it .

4th Poland is country where if you work you have to stick to it as long as you can , cause finding new workplace takes a long time and its very hard , and there are so many ppl without work , that on each persons place are 10 others waiting in line , so no one will hesitate from firing someone . And thats another thing to add to the expenses , cause you need to save up some cash as well .

Bands like Nocturnal Bloodlust make me wanna puke , they are fukin selfish greedy bastards thinkin only about stuffing theyre pockets with cash on expenses of others not caring for them , they are like those fukin shitty politics in my country . THIS BAND IS DEAD FOR ME NOW .

[Nyasagi 259]

If I remember well, airmail shipping for 1 CD on cdjapan is 750yen and 1140yen for two (it could change, that's how much I paid like 2 years ago). If you buy in expensive shops, then it's your own fault.

 

You take food and bills into consideration? Then you can afford 0 CDs monthly. You also want to save up from that salary, lol... so how can you afford buying CDs? I can't comprehend that.

 

I may not like the band's attitude, but they have the right to dislike downloaders. Just don't listen to them anymore, jfc. That's what I did, because I can't pay money. I don't think they're greedy, most vk indie bands are very poor, they aren't like these famous artists. I just dislike the way they're approaching the issue and I felt offended by them.

[kurenaishineek 646]

If I remember well, airmail shipping for 1 CD on cdjapan is 750yen and 1140yen for two (it could change, that's how much I paid like 2 years ago). If you buy in expensive shops, then it's your own fault.

 

You take food and bills into consideration? Then you can afford 0 CDs monthly. You also want to save up from that salary, lol... so how can you afford buying CDs? I can't comprehend that.

 

I may not like the band's attitude, but they have the right to dislike downloaders. Just don't listen to them anymore, jfc. That's what I did, because I can't pay money. I don't think they're greedy, most vk indie bands are very poor, they aren't like these famous artists. I just dislike the way they're approaching the issue and I felt offended by them.

1st the answer is , i cant afford CDs i just said how much would i need . Also the expensive shops are the only ones who sell doujin CDs that are not even appearing on CDJapan , not even Itunes Shop has them so they can hog how much money they want , cause theyre the only ones that sell them , also the more rare japanese bands are also hard to get and if you find it you need to pay a lot to get their CD .

2nd , VK is poor , yeah seriously then get a job , i know many ppl who have a band and still have a normal work cause they cant afford to live from music . If you start to make music for cash you are not better than a prostitute , a lot of ppl do it for fun and the money making stuff is just as a side effect of it . Also if they are so poor , why are some VK bands making an account on bandcamp and offering their music as "pay as much as you want from 1 dollar" ? No matter how you look it its being greedy . If you dont see it its okay , it seems we live in the same country , but in different worlds . Its like with ppl who still belive that our politics will start to care .

[Tetora 625]

Although we have kind of covered some 0f these topics, they seem to persist, and I will post my feelings towards Kurenai`s statements.

 

 

2nd , VK is poor , yeah seriously then get a job

 

How will them having a second job enable them to be supported by a record label, move units, warrant a budget provided by the label, production costs, equipment costs, etc?

 

And do you want them to continously pay from their own alternate revenue, to pay for equipment, production, distribution, etc... To provide a product that will either be bootlegged by fans who wanta free product on someone else`s dime, or distributed to fans who supposedly deserve it for free?

 

i know many ppl who have a band and still have a normal work cause they cant afford to live from music . If you start to make music for cash you are not better than a prostitute , a lot of ppl do it for fun and the money making stuff is just as a side effect of it .

 

And those people have a limited range of customers, limited production capabilities, presentation capabilites, limited effect on the music business, etc...

 

And how does charging for a product make you a prostitute? First of all, prostitutes have a valued commodity that they assign a monetary value and charge for use... That is business.

 

Second of all, music is a form of entertainment, and it is always a product. There is no reason to expect it to be free.

 

Yes, it is a beautiful thing that many people assign a great value to... So if people work their @sses off to provide an experience that can move you, and even change your life, that provides you with hours and hours of entertainment and pleasure... You think you deserve it for free? There`s no value to it besides you getting the product with no work on your part?

 

And yeah, I see people talking trash about Nocturnal Bloodlust in particular, as a member`s statement started this thread. I am not the hugest fan, but obviously the band is talented, and they put out a product people see value in. If anyone wants to provide a recording of their own vocals or guitar playing etc... That can be a suitable substitute for that presented in Nocturnal Bloodlust`s recordings, I would love to hear it.

 

And yes, a lot of people do it for fun, and they don`t have the reach or impact of those in the studio system that everyone seems to despise. Money is just a side-effect mostly for people that don`t want to grow something.

 

I would like to see VK and music I think has value in general grow. And that doesn`t happen without some monetary input.

 

 

Also if they are so poor , why are some VK bands making an account on bandcamp and offering their music as "pay as much as you want from 1 dollar" ? No matter how you look it its being greedy

 

Take a look at the booklet for any average VK band and look at all the staff involved in a release, then factor in the band, then think of the profit they need to move forward and invest in new releases and ventures...

 

This isn`t sustainable by one dollar donations. If bands can sustain a career with a decent profile through means like these, then we can talk about this, but as of now, the studio system still reigns because it is the best system that peopel have found to work with.

 

And again... People say that only a small percentage of money goes to the band when you buy a cd... As I stated, what about all the people involved in the release besides the band?They don`t deserve money either but everyone deserves a free entertainment product? What about cost of printing CD`s, distribution, etc? And if you say, oh, go digital... The country these bands are from don`t really want digital products, so let`s not suggest changing their very healthy music market so we can maybe buy another album if we feel like in degraded quality over the web.

 

 

If you dont see it its okay , it seems we live in the same country , but in different worlds . Its like with ppl who still belive that our politics will start to care .

 

To be honest, I am just expressing my views here, and I realize they are just my own views... Other people have their own, and while I believe in mine, I can accept others have views, and they are not neccessarily `wrong`. Hopefully we can discuss this amicably, and not fight each other.

[Nyasagi 259]

2nd , VK is poor , yeah seriously then get a job , i know many ppl who have a band and still have a normal work cause they cant afford to live from music . If you start to make music for cash you are not better than a prostitute , a lot of ppl do it for fun and the money making stuff is just as a side effect of it . Also if they are so poor , why are some VK bands making an account on bandcamp and offering their music as "pay as much as you want from 1 dollar" ? No matter how you look it its being greedy . If you dont see it its okay , it seems we live in the same country , but in different worlds . Its like with ppl who still belive that our politics will start to care .

Many of them have jobs, you don't even know the reality, yet you assume you're entitled to call them music prostitutes. I agree with what Tetora said. Everything costs a lot of money, there are many people working for these bands. Get a band and try to record you all playing on a cell phone or even a computer. It would sound like shit. You just can't record music in good quality for free.

 

I don't know any VK bands selling stuff for one dollar on a website like that? But there are different labels, different situations, maybe some bands just have a better financial situation for some reason? I don't know... maybe they don't mind losing some money first, to promote themselves in a cheap way? In the end, most musicians would like to make enough money on their band, to live just off it.

 

We don't live in different worlds, you're just being close-minded, like most people in this country, lol. You can't imagine someone may have a different opinion about this (and I can't afford buying CDs either... but if I could, I would buy from the bands I like, because I know why do they need money. VK ISN'T A MAINSTREAM MUSIC INDUSTRY FULL OF MONEY.)

[kurenaishineek 646]

You guys still miss one vital point , that is not only my opinion but a lot of well known music criticists and reportes often talk about this . A bands main income should never be CD's , they are just a medium and means for promoting the band nothing else , a bands main income shoule be live performances , tours , festival appearances and other such stuff . To many bands in this day and age forget about it or are to lazy , they release a CD do a short tour and expect to get milions by sitting on their asses doing nothing more . Look at bands like Crossfaith , they playing concerts nonstop , they last album was even released when they where in the middle of a tour . What about Supe that was a band for 6 years before releasing first CD and they still got around very good . There are so many bands that dont release anything , yet they get a lot of cash from live shows and can live a good live from that .

[Number Girl 48]

I don't know, man. It always rubs me a little wrong when bands guilt or threaten fans in order to get them to stop participating in piracy. DELETING FUCKING EVERYTHING from YouTube, declaring "war" on pirates, or calling your fans demeaning names (a la Kiwamu) is just going to make people lose respect for you and it certainly won't help you widen your fanbase. 

 

Sure, I have no problem if an artist wants to encourage fans to buy their music/merch/show tickets, but the attitude you have about it is important to consider too. Fact is, no one responds well to people who come across as whiny assholes, even if their music is the blessed gift of God to humanity. I'm not saying that musicians shouldn't feel angry at fans if their careers are clearly suffering, but there are appropriate ways to get people to sympathize with you and see things your way as opposed to alienating and punishing them. Especially since there's no possible way of knowing the reasons behind why every fan does what they do.  

 

Personally, I'm neutral about piracy as I'm not exactly well versed on copyright laws, issues, or ethics in that area. I don't think people should always pirate when they really do care about the artists and they have the means to donate a small sum to BandCamp or buy a CD, but I would be kidding myself if I tried to say that piracy was a force of evil that is killing the music industry and is always more harmful than helpful. I wouldn't have bought the massive pile of Japanese discs or have half as much of the digital downloads on my laptop if it weren't for people breaking the rules and uploading YouTube videos, torrents, etc. 

 

Just my two cents in response to the OP, I haven't had the chance to really read through the whole topic just yet. 

[kurenaishineek 646]

Well i doubt that MH will make a rule to stop posting anything from this band and i doubt this will stop ppl from doing so . First of all , our human nature makes us this way that the more we cant get something the more we want it , the more something is forbidden the more interesting it is . It will backfire on them , its like a time bomb that will explode on them , cause the ppl will want even more to download they stuff . On the other hand one of my friends said this might be a reverse psychology advertising , they know that it will go the wrong way , and thats why they do it , cause thanks to that statement from them now they number one talk on a LOT of forums . Well does not matter to me , i already know the outcome of this , history will repeat , this is not the first band that is trying something like this and i doubt that it would be the first that would succed .

[SteelHawk 0]

I totally agree with Nathan Reavan's May 28, 2014 post. I JUST learned about Nocturnal Bloodlust yesterday after looking for something else. I never even heard of kei music. I was looking for quality Japanese metal, which has been a pursuit of mine for over a year now. I cannot even say I am so impressed by the costumes (well, some of them) but the music is great. And it totally makes sense that if you invest all that time and energy in it then you should be compensated, especially if you have a network that supports you and fans by trying to make it reasonable to purchase. I did not know that Japanese fans had the sort of ethos that compelled them to purchase a CD in that manner; being from the US I understand that a lot of piracy is the norm here, but, from another perspective, I absolutely support that standard for fans no matter what. and why shouldn't they be able to travel and get paid for it? It's weird, because as excited as I am right now to listen to their music, I do support their standards and I just literally have not been able to purchase anything--offline or online--for a while. But I want to. I also think that strategically it might make sense to try to connect outside of the music industry with others who are dealing with piracy and its implications. These are PROFOUND implications. In another milieu, I totally get pirated all the time and it's NOT okay with me in any way. EVER!

 

I don;'t respect pirates in that manner. But I also don't respect social conditions that support pirates in accessing materials to use to make money while people of integrity who produce quality music and other things of value get pirated so they lose their passion. I look forward to seeing Nocturnal Bloodlust live. I cannot say if I will enjoy their costumes that night or not yet...