Conditional disbandments

[sai 868]

You know, the whole "if less than 400 people show up at our live we'll disband"-kind of thing. So yeah, what are your opinions on this seemingly new trend? Do you think it's a good way for bands to see whether they've got enough fans to be able to actually make profit from doing music, or do you think it's a douche move because they're basically guilttripping people into going to their concerts out of fear for disbandment?

 

so yeah, leave your opinions below.

[Jigsaw9 6783]

inb4 conditional band formations

"Hey it's me, *insert semi-known musician name* if u guys wanna hear me in a new band with *insert other semi-known musicians' names* then send ur nudes & contact info to this e-mail address. 100 pics and we'll do it!"

 

But yeah, conditional disbandments are really dumb -- if you have to resort to it you might as well just pack it up and do something else instead of wasting ppl's time with your "absolutely amazing" music and "talent".

[Tokage 5930]

It's like the musical equivalent of going 'If you leave me, I'll kill myself!'

[The Piass 3472]

I think it's a good way to revive the band even if most of time the number isn't reach... as a band there is a few time but i don't remember the name... :c

[Nyasagi 259]

I don't think it's dumb. Maybe they really don't have money to run the band and they have no other choice. If they don't get enough to people on their live, they won't be able to record anything, make more music? Small visual kei bands are usually broke, I think this is the reason why they do it and it seems very logical if I think about it this way. I don't know why else would they do that.

 

Also, on the events, bands who gathered the least fans pay for the club (a lot of money, unless the whole event is sponsored by another band, then they don't), so maybe they want to avoid that.

[hyura 465]

Maybe it's not that stupid to do.

But it takes all pride off your band and that's a bad thing in visual kei where image is everything. I mean. The vampire prince you act like on stage wouldn't disgrace himself like that.

 

Also. Just a friendly reminder of that one time when Kon was still in Nightingeil and posted on his blog that you'd better come to their oneman because he plans to kill himself and it's the last chance to hear him sing.

[fitear1590 2414]

Well, on the scale of obnoxious marketing tactics, It's right up there with 4-type singles all with slightly different tracklists. AKA, I think it's silly and unnecessary.

Then again, no band that I've ever paid attention to has resorted to it yet.  We'll see how I feel about it if any of the bands I follow ever do it, haha.

[Augie1995 325]

It's a really douchey move. It's a huge guilttrip on most fans that want to but can't go and will feel like it's their fault if the band disbands. I mean, if you have to "threaten" your fans in such a way, you're either failing as a band or you have no moral ground (either way, you should probably stop). Even if it's a money issue, you could always start a "kickstarter" group of sorts so that fans can donate money to contribute to their next release and such. There are other alternatives than telling your fans that if not enough of them come, it's over

[Champ213 1858]

Eh, it's fair game. If they cannot muster up that little support for their band to begin with, they are clearly going nowhere anyway.

 

 

It wouldn't actually surprise me that some already had decided to disband anyway, but at least once want to play in front of a semi-full house.

[Bear 1817]

Pathetic, and they are obviusly in it for the wrong reasons.

[Bear 1817]

I don't think it's dumb. Maybe they really don't have money to run the band and they have no other choice. If they don't get enough to people on their live, they won't be able to record anything, make more music? Small visual kei bands are usually broke, I think this is the reason why they do it and it seems very logical if I think about it this way. I don't know why else would they do that.

Also, on the events, bands who gathered the least fans pay for the club (a lot of money, unless the whole event is sponsored by another band, then they don't), so maybe they want to avoid that.

Small bands from all over the world are poor and what not, yet most of them are fully capable to continue their band, recording albums and releasing them, and play live now and then despite never having played for a crowd bigger than 30, and despite never having been paid anything for their lives. It's in fact the opposite, they have to spend loads of money to be able to play live.

Money ain't that big of an issue unless you:'er into it because of the money. Lack of money might hold you back a few years. You might not get to record and release it right now, but waiting a year or two should'n make you disappear, unless you're into it for all the wrong reasons.

Even the heroin addicts living on the streets here, with no income whatsoever other than the bottles they find on the street and what random people give them, are capable of recording and releassing here. How? They save small amounts of money whenever they can to be able to fullfill their dreams, even if it takes them a decade. Spirit!

[Nyasagi 259]

Bear, it's visual kei scene we're talking about. Japanese fans are often into their appearance, not their music. If they disappear for too long, everyone may lose interest in them. It's difficult to talk about it from our perspective, because the music market is totally different here. Japanese bands are usually very Japan-oriented and rarely use any unusual forms of marketing, they always follow the same way as others. It's just business, I don't think there's anything douchey. If you don't like less fair ways of earning money, why don't you stop giving money to all these huge companies? They do worse things than some slight manipulation to get more people on the live... People decide themselves if they want to come, anyway. If you don't like the band's plan, don't come. It's easy. People have always wanted to earn money in an easy way and there's nothing wrong with that. If they achieve their goal in this way, then they're brilliant, not douches.

[hiroki 5521]

Small bands from all over the world are poor and what not, yet most of them are fully capable to continue their band, recording albums and releasing them, and play live now and then despite never having played for a crowd bigger than 30, and despite never having been paid anything for their lives. It's in fact the opposite, they have to spend loads of money to be able to play live.

Money ain't that big of an issue unless you:'er into it because of the money. Lack of money might hold you back a few years. You might not get to record and release it right now, but waiting a year or two should'n make you disappear, unless you're into it for all the wrong reasons.

Even the heroin addicts living on the streets here, with no income whatsoever other than the bottles they find on the street and what random people give them, are capable of recording and releassing here. How? They save small amounts of money whenever they can to be able to fullfill their dreams, even if it takes them a decade. Spirit!

 

Well, I must respectfully disagree on a couple of points.

These "small bands" you've described comprise people who are passionate about music and taking it up as a hobby. I don't think it's fair to compare them to people whose very livelihood depends on music. Obviously, if someone simply wants to write music as a hobby, there's always youtube (or niconico in the Japanese context). On the other hand, I would say it's more than justifiable for someone who's in a band full-time to care about money. I mean, it's their job that's at stake: why would they not care? Whether they are good enough - and, in the case that they aren't, aware of that fact - is a separate issue.

You've also suggested that we ought to do things for the "right" reason, and I assume you're alluding to following one's passion/interest. What you've envisioned might be true in an ideal world, in which everyone does what he/she wants to do and any monetary concern is inconsequential. If this were actually the case in reality, no one around us would be working, and parents today won't be pressurizing their children into doing law or medicine over, say, philosophy. The very fact that these things happen all the time points to how we (consciously or otherwise) realize that even if we ought not prioritize money over everything else, money nevertheless remains the condition of the possibility of doing anything at all.

For this reason, I feel there aren't any "right" or "wrong" reasons to be in the scene. If we take this model of value judgment too seriously, I'm afraid an overwhelming majority of musicians with any sort of staying power are in it for the "wrong" reason. Clearly I'll be deeply relieved if I were to find that vistlip isn't making music "just for money"; still, the fact of the matter is that ultimately the band's success or failure is not going to be contingent on the reasons that have initially motivated someone to be in a band, or how moral these motivations might be, but how good/attractive (and lucky) the band is. If taking up a job (which is what these people are actually doing) for money is "wrong," I don't even know what's "right" anymore.

(And as a final aside, there's of course a great deal of stoicism to be in an indies vk band and making a loss everyday, which in most cases triggers a gush of pride in the outside observer looking in at these people. The hypocrisy, of course, is that the outsider probably won't want to be in the shoes of the very people he's mythologizing.)

[Bear 1817]

On my phone, so I won't respond to all that. But if one choose music as a job to earn money, but fail to do so, then they obviously suck at their job and disbandment are but positive. Good riddance and so on. One can't just start a band and expect to become rich over the night. Start it as a hobby and see how it goes. If it goes well, quit your job. If not, keep it as a hobby, unless it's something you don't really give a fuck about. Then just forget about it.

My point, which obviously didn't come through, is that if you actually care about what you're creating you won't give up after a year or two just because you didn't make money from it in that short time.

[Zeus 7997]

Pushing all wide generalizations in this topic aside about "the scene", the only bands that have done this so far are small indie bands that I don't care about. Facts are that there is no good reason to do this. Let's run down all the reasons I can think of:

We need money to continue functioning as a band!

If you're that deep in the hole, one live where 100 people come to see you isn't going to save you. What are you going to do, continue to ask those same 100 people to play inflated ticket prices to hear you play the same songs until they're done with you? This stopgap measure just doesn't logically flow, so I have a hard time believing bands announce conditional disbandments for the money. If you're in a band as a full-time job, the most important aspect is money management. Poor money management skills have broken better bands than any we're passively alluding to, and honestly a lot of visual kei indies bands tend to focus on visuals before music. If you have more pictures on the internet than songs in your discography,

 

We want to play in front of a live audience for once!

Too many times I see upstart visual kei bands that I've never heard of before getting upset because they don't have a lot of fans, but every single other visual kei band started in the same hole and worked their way up! The fuck did you think you were getting yourself into when you're in a society based on appearances and you look like you got smacked with a rainbow's make-up kit? It's delusional to think that in eight or nine months you would be selling out a venue because it takes years for bands to do that, and some bands still don't even sell out a hall when they play! What makes your small band worthy to play to a crowded hall other than your temper tantrum on Ameblo? If you want to play to a full music hall, earn it with skill, dedication and patience. And if you don't, you don't.

We don't want to disband! The label is making us do it.

I'll have to let this one slide. Especially since the line where band influence ends and label influence begins is a little blurry. But this doesn't apply in the case where independent bands do this. Then there is no label.

The only reason I can think of is for a band's fifteen minutes of fame. Every band that I've ever seen pull this stunt have disappeared regardless of the outcome. I don't know what they hope to achieve with those fifteen minutes, but I'll let them have it. I'll never hear of them again anyway.

[Champ213 1858]

I think the money aspect is overrated anyway. It's not like one sold-out live will suddenly make them rich or provide them with some constant livelihood. But if hardly anyone is interested in their music, then why not let them disband? That's the way things work. Bands disband all the time because they realize that no one gives a fuck. May as well be forthright about it and see how many people actually care. It's a blunt method, but I don't see a problem with it. Nobody is forced to support those bands after all.

[hiroki 5521]

It's a blunt method, but I don't see a problem with it. Nobody is forced to support those bands after all.

 

Pretty much sums up my own position.

 

I also agree with Zess that it's at best an interim stopgap measure. At the end of the day, the invisible hand of the industry will work its magic - bands that are good enough to be successful will be successful, and bands that are crappy enough won't have enough people giving a shit about them regardless of what stunts they try to pull. Bands can resort to whatever they want to do if the members think (rightly or wrongly) it's going to help them keep their jobs. I don't really see it as "guilt-tripping" precisely because if I don't care about the band, I'm still not going to care. Fans have more individual agency than some seem to think.

[miyuu 40]

Nyasagi, on 11 Feb 2014 - 4:45 PM, said:

B.. People decide themselves if they want to come, anyway. If you don't like the band's plan, don't come. It's easy. People have always wanted to earn money in an easy way and there's nothing wrong with that. If they achieve their goal in this way, then they're brilliant, not douches.

i really didn't want to comment but some opinions just hurt my brain. there is a difference with being ambitious and have no pride or no morals

i am really tired to explain .so tired. it's not my fucking problem if you don't know what dignity is.

so YAY!!! let's do anything for the money or because we are in love with a guy without having no morals, no pride no self esteem and no brain as always.

both the bands and the fandom in vkei yay! like always!

i actually believe the bands who do this, just do it out of stupidity or weakness, because they just follow others or what they have been told.

without feeling the need to think maybe

 

[Nyasagi 259]

It's easy to talk about "dignity" from the position of a person who sits in front of the computer and most of their music is downloaded. Sorry, but money rules this world. You either eat or get eaten. I don't think any way to achieve success is wrong, as long as you get what you wanted. When you're full of morals, you won't achieve anything, because other people will use unfair methods to succeed and you'll be left behind. These bands just try to succeed and you don't know Japanese girls. They often prostitute themselves to support their favorite band or do mitsu for their beloved band member, so stop with these morals.

[miyuu 40]

It's easy to talk about "dignity" from the position of a person who sits in front of the computer and most of their music is downloaded. Sorry, but money rules this world. You either eat or get eaten. I don't think any way to achieve success is wrong, as long as you get what you wanted. When you're full of morals, you won't achieve anything, because other people will use unfair methods to succeed and you'll be left behind. These bands just try to succeed and you don't know Japanese girls. They often prostitute themselves to support their favorite band or do mitsu for their beloved band member, so stop with these morals.

 

excuse  me you don't know shit about me, and what i buy and what i download. but anyway you  are right who am i to know anything.

maybe morals and ideals are indeed useless in this world. maybe we shouldn't let kids know about them in the first place.

 

 

irrelevant i think i overreacted. but anyway there must be a more clever promotion way or something that doesn't sound pathetic.

i guess to be succesful you need to be clever , even if you don't have pride lol

[Zeus 7997]

and you don't know Japanese girls. They often prostitute themselves to support their favorite band or do mitsu for their beloved band member, so stop with these morals.

If there's a band out there that relies on passively prostituting underage / barely legal girls in order to fund their band project, they are terrible people and I wouldn't want to listen to their band anyway.

[Tetora 625]

It's easy to talk about "dignity" from the position of a person who sits in front of the computer and most of their music is downloaded. Sorry, but money rules this world. You either eat or get eaten. I don't think any way to achieve success is wrong, as long as you get what you wanted. When you're full of morals, you won't achieve anything, because other people will use unfair methods to succeed and you'll be left behind. These bands just try to succeed and you don't know Japanese girls. They often prostitute themselves to support their favorite band or do mitsu for their beloved band member, so stop with these morals.

I disagree.

I am a business man, and you do what it takes to win, but this is not how you win.

As for morals, everyone has their own, what matters is standing by them no matter what, which is what seperates the men from the b*tches of this world.

I have seen many different businesses from the inside, and the ones without morals are the ones without balls, and they almost always have more debt than profit in their ventures, though they wont tell you that.

The,fact that these bands are announcing a conditional disbandment shows me they actually dont have what it takes.

I can give examples of real bands that did what it took, like Buck-Tick or Dog in the PWO... Haru put his whole life into being in a band, he used to sleep in lobbies, look all day for band members, give up oppurtunities elsewhere to continue music, etc... These other bands come out with unrefined looks and sounds, then disband after not becoming SID or Alice Nine in six months.

Just my two cents.

[Tetora 625]

Also guys let's not fight or make assumptions, let's just discuss as friends.

[sai 868]

^ Pretty much this. This thread is about the conditional disbandments and reasons why bands might do it, not the purchase/download ratio of specific members and which VK bands sleep with underage girls. Please keep it civilized.

[Greyen 173]

I think if they really want to be in a band, visual kei or not,They should just fight through the money issues. I know most of these bands probably are tied to some crappy indie label that has them by the throats, but the way I see it they shouldn't disband..Instead if the band really likes working together they should just take a break, do their best to raise money, compose on the side and maybe practice every now and then. When the time comes where they can afford to release their music and play a few shows, I think it would be that much more rewarding to both the band and their fans. And there are plenty of small bands out there who are grateful to even be playing for 50 people! Yet they don't complain about breaking up because of that, all because they enjoy what they do.