Women in Visual kei

[Ikna 1225]

Well, I can't remember this has been a discussion before soooo... let's talk about women in visual kei, female bandmembers and all-female bands!

I personally have a thing for women in Visual kei for a few reasons: first there aren't that many women participating in the visual kei music scene, most of the female demographic are just fans. Quite surprising when you consider how femenine aesthetics are important in VK. Of course not so surprising since rock and metal always have been dominated by men, including frilly glam rock with guys wearing skirts and make up. But that makes female VK bands even more special and outstanding, I find.

Well, then female vocalists. I have the feel the women seem to be better at singing or at least it doesn't show so much when they don't hit the right tones as it does when the male counterparts are doing it. Surely we are all used to the way the guys sing, especially the deep growls and screams... but women can pull it off too. And I just like the voice of some of the girls

So what do I expect from this thread? A little discussion what you think about the lack of women (or their popularity) in VK, if you would like to see more female members or bands. And of course discussing about bands that already exist!
And: tips for bands to check out , but mainly the rather unknown and obscure groups (because we all know who Exist Trace are) I mainly use to listen to 90s VK, so I'd be personally  interested if someone could manage to dig up some VK girl or mixed gender bands from that era.

 

 

And: a few bands with female members I know of:
 

- Exist Trace (obvious)

- Necro Circus

- Clothoid÷Doll

- Solfege

- MARY☆RUE

- G~Angel

- Greece Grace

- ZEDEKIAH (I always thought the vocalist was male... turned out to be a woman?)
- Danger Gang

- R'OSE

- AMADEUS

- Pleur

- Pyuera

- CaMin

- Kilhi+Ice

 

apparently the singer of Hybrid Zombies is rumored to be a girl. And I have heard the drummer of Matina band allure idea too.

[cruel-crucible 89]

Rio from Secilia Luna is a girl as well

[Champ213 1858]

Not that many people will care, but the guitarist of the rather obscure Celestia le ciel was a girl. The twist was that she claimed to be a guy. A cross-dressing guy. So basically, she was a girl pretending to be a guy pretending to be a girl. She only whispered during interviews and let the vocalist "translate", so she wouldn't give away her gender by her voice.

 

I know that because I translated for the band at their Germany concert several years ago. It obviously was supposed to be a secret (and quite succesfully so - there was a homosexual guy at the concert that was badly stanning for "him" - which is pretty hilarious, if you think about it XD). But since the band is long disbanded and the members retired from music, there isn't really much harm in revealing it now. Plus, I think they even had less fans in Japan than in Europe. XD

Nice people though.

 

 

That does make we wonder though if there are more women in vk that hide their gender for one reason or another.

[Ikna 1225]

^ very interesting, Champ! I did know this band back from my early VK weaboo days. I think they even played once here in Austria. And I also always had the feeling that the guitarist was a girl due to the facial structures. I think it's really an interesting fact that she wanted to hide this fact that she was female. Did she do it because she thinks the fans would like her as a guy more?
And yeah, I bet there quite a few (if not lot) members who are female but we don't know it.

[saishuu 3220]

I don't know many to be honest, but back in the day I really liked Marilyn☆DustSchool. I'm not sure if they were VK or not (someone from Missalina Rei was involved I think), but their music was awesome.

 

Reclens also had some female members and they were pretty good as well.

[Champ213 1858]

 Did she do it because she thinks the fans would like her as a guy more?

 

Basically, yes. At the concert I helped out with we had maybe 30-40 people in the audience, and I think they were pretty much all teenage girls, save for that one gay guy. (And considering how obscure the band was, the fans were surprisingly devoted - we allowed two girls to come backstage to hand over gifts they had prepared, and they actually started crying when they met the band.) I'm not saying that all of the fans would have been less dedicated if they knew that one member was a girl. But I think there is a core of vk fans in general - usually very young and usually female - that consider the crossdressing thing an important aspect of vk. They should be pretty like girls, but they should not actually be girls. A woman dressing as a woman? Where's the fun in that?

 

 

As for my personal opinion: it doesn't make much of a difference. It does bring a fresh angle into the genre though. Personally I think the idea of a woman pretending to be a cross-dressing guy is both hilarious and ingenious.

 

Musically it really only matters anyway if the girl happens to be the vocalist. I tend to prefer the lower female singers, like the one from Zig+Zag for example.

[Miasma 162]

Not that many people will care, but the guitarist of the rather obscure Celestia le ciel was a girl. The twist was that she claimed to be a guy. A cross-dressing guy. So basically, she was a girl pretending to be a guy pretending to be a girl. She only whispered during interviews and let the vocalist "translate", so she wouldn't give away her gender by her voice.

 

I know that because I translated for the band at their Germany concert several years ago. It obviously was supposed to be a secret (and quite succesfully so - there was a homosexual guy at the concert that was badly stanning for "him" - which is pretty hilarious, if you think about it XD). But since the band is long disbanded and the members retired from music, there isn't really much harm in revealing it now. Plus, I think they even had less fans in Japan than in Europe. XD

Nice people though.

 

This was very interesting to read! I can see why she'd keep a secret like that though. I've seen a lot of misogyny from overseas vk fans concerning female vk bands (idk if Japanese fans are the same cause I can't read Japanese). Whenever a woman would dress in visual style it was never just that. There have always been comments like "Why does that girl want to dress up as a boy dressed up as a girl?" As if to say that only men can dress in visual style, and that visual style is always some form of cross dressing which we know isn't always the case.

[Biopanda 2675]

The ex.drummer, Kiri, from cocklobin is female as well. As for HYBRID-ZOMBIEZ, the vocalist was 100% totally a girl as well, so there's no rumor about that XD Honestly, with how her voice sounds, I'm surprised anyone thought she was a guy. She even jokes about the fact on her blog profile that she left VK and is now a girl XD

[miyuu 40]

^ Did she do it because she thinks the fans would like her as a guy more?

 

yeah like we don't know the jealousy around visual kei

and the drama it will happen if a hot girl is being around your favorite jrocker.

when they are hiding their personal lives and girlfriends because they are going to lose fans.

it's a fairytale but this is what vkei sells .

 

i always thought if you are a girl , that is more difficult to make other girls to like you. and being a guy is so more easy for  this.

but even if i think it's more rare, i find that some girls have incredible talent in this.(in being easily liked by other girls)

also i kinda think it's a turn on when a girl pretends to be a guy

but  maybe i would be angry if i was deceived lol

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

Weren't UnDead+Seraph all women as well?

 

HeRE:NE is all female too, as is Mary's Blood and Arune (although the last two weren't very good at all...). There's also Decola Hopping with a female singer, Gagaaling, Dark Schneider / Whatever they're called now has a female drummer (and used to have a female guitarist too), and Matenrou Opera had a female keyboardist. Oh,and 水樂 has a female singer as well.

 

Do Velvet Eden's dancers count?

[pinkmakona 1810]

Blanc Chaine! Clarte Lunaire were from the 90's, i think. HEAR, Az:Madius, ma≒jan and Syaranosui. RENS, dr.tarantula (only female singer), Hurly Burly and Revivre are active female bands. MA-YA from Pan-d-ra is female. It would be nice to see some new female bands with 90's vk influences, too. 

[Champ213 1858]

Also relevant: years ago I compiled this list of female-fronted vk bands: http://www.last.fm/user/Champ213/journal/2007/06/25/1hq8_female-fronted_vkanguraetc.

 

The list hasn't been updated in years, so no newer bands, and only bands that have a female vocalist. It also includes some angura, goth and metal bands.

[coffee000 14]

I don't find that surprising at all. It has nothing to do with feminine aesthetics in vk. And no, most vk fans in Japan don't think like you do, sorry. They prefer guys and guys singing. There's nothing wrong with yours or their preference. It's just how the scene works.

 

Usually almost 100% of a vk band's fanbase is female (and mostly very young) unless the band becomes very big like L'Arc-en-Ciel. You can argue that it's the norm in this world that most of the rock band members are male. But that is not the sole reason why visual kei band members are mostly male. In Japan's context, there are other reasons. Most Western rock band members are male too but they have a lot of or even mostly male fans from the beginning. Sometimes, Western rock bands with female members will attract more female fans. It's the opposite in Japan, especially within the vk scene. I believe it's due to a cultural difference even if I am talking about subcultures.

 

It makes more sense if the majority of the band members are male since their audience is female. The guys might look pretty and feminine but that's only from Western culture's perspective. From the Japanese female perspective, they are still men, attractive, desirable or even "ideal" men (at least after makeup and styling have been done). I am sure Japanese female fans don't consider them feminine unless they are onnagata, which is the minority (e.g. Hizaki) and only serves as something novel and different among other guys. You need to keep in mind the cultural difference. It's like when you show today's anime (those made after the 2000s, regardless of the genre or demographic) to a Western person who's not familiar with anime, they will probably think most of the anime guys look like girls, while anime audiences in Japan don't ever think they look like girls.

 

I believe that vk or J-rock bands with female members, especially a female vocalist, often attract more male fans. I don't claim that they use the female members to delibrately attract male fans. But they definitely don't have the female members to attract female fans (of course if female fans like them too, that's all good). "Females who dress like guys who look like girls" are nothing new in Japan. Since I talked about the "ideal" men (i.e. men looking like girls from Western perspective), the Takarazuka Revue, with an all female fanbase, has been doing this for decades. Some visual kei female members probably take inspiration from that when they want to be liked by female fans. So this is just a cultural thing in Japan that the West doesn't have. To some audience, it doesn't matter which gender is playing this role at all. They just want the show.

[hyura 465]

There is lots of truth in this thread already.

I think that to many young female vk fans, especially but not only in japan, it's a 'devaluing' point for a band to have a woman in it.

There is a reason why bands with mixed genders hardly ever sell- it's because the bangyaru don't want pretty girls around their idols, nor do the bangyaruo like pretty boys around theirs. It's clever for the 'odd' one in a mixed band to hide their gender.

 

It's different for all-woman groups- they can become quite successful if they manage to attract lots of male fans and aren't disliked so much by the female ones either.

 

This whole thing is something that always annoyed me, really, because actually ESPECIALLY with all the make up and hair it doesn't matter anymore if you're a girl or a boy. The lines between both are really blurred if you look at an androgynous bandwoman (like hiko of danger gang for example) performing on stage and than at a girly bandguy like hizaki.

I'm pretty sure the scene would be much more innovative if it was more 50:50. Not just the bands... the fans as well. It's kinda stupid that male vk fans mostly just buy the cd and stay at home instead of joining concerts. The most enjoyable lives I went to where the ones with a good male:female ratio.

 

I'm a bit surprised that nobody mentioned Lucifer Luscious Violenoue yet! She was the first female vk vocalist I discovered and I instantly fell in love with her voice.

[Rize 1593]

First thing that comes in mind if we're talking about females in the VK scene...

 

Decola Hopping!

 

I'm not into female vocals much, but she totally impressed me with her vocals!

Even her grows are kick ass lol  

[Bear 1817]

Didn't Licker have a couple of female members? The vocalist and drummer, if I am not mistaken. Great band. It's a shame they disbanded.

[Ikna 1225]

Thanks for all the infos and stuff.
I saw that list of you, Champ, yesterday when I got curious if I have missed some bands. An update would be really cool

I understand that Visual kei fans primarily like the bands due to the beutiful guys. It was more of a rethoric question I posed conderning the female guitarist who pretended to be a guy. I understand japanese fans think differently and also the majority of foreign fans prefer to look at hot cross dressing guys rather than girls. But I still wished women would be more accepted. There is sure a lot of jealousy, but when I look at many Exist Trace fans who really like the band members (and especially Omi) than it gives me a bit hope that female muscians might get at least a bit of fan support. And what I noticed too was the small, yet growing numbers of male visual kei fans who like groups like exist trace or Danger Gang. And yeah, it seems the all female bands are more popular due to the fact that the girls can't "interfere with the male band members.
And I too think more girls could bring a bit more innovation into the "genre". It's nice that nowadays there are apparently many bands already with female members (only sad, that most of them disband or go on hiatus, like Secilia Luna or Cocklobin...)

And oh, forgot Az:Madius. Really awesome old visual flavoured band.
Deep female voices are also my thing. And I wasn't aware that the Hybrid Zombiez vocalist is a girl. I only listened to them a few times (but I really like her voice) and just read this discussions about her gender. In Visual kei you can get easily fooled or confused. i also always thought Omi was a boy for example.

[Guest mitsubana]

GallowS. lol Can't believe someone forgot to mention them haha

[rebelstrik 111]

i guess aldious doesnt count as visual kei but those chicks remind me how dudes in visual kei usualy look like xD

[TheBistroButcher666 228]

I ain't Japanese and don't know a whole lotta about the Japanese fan perspective but I image female fans probably dislike female band members the same way westerners dislike western VK bands. Doesn't matter if they are competent musicians or singers, they're still gross and not what they like about VK (it's the wang). VK is definitely a scene marked towards girls and for the women trying to be a part of it. It is probably totes more difficult for them than just joining a normal band. Male bands already have hard enough time getting off their feet and selling chekis and swag and other crap, I imagine female bands it's harder because the fickle girls don't want to see a bunch of fugly make up girls sing on stage because they ain't gonna bone them.

[coffee000 14]

If anyone is looking for mixed gender J-rock bands with a mixed gender audience attending concerts, you'd better look outside the vk scene. Japanese rock is not all about visual kei and looks - I am sure you are aware of this. From what I have observed, a lot of J-rock bands or even J-pop artists wear makeup, have dramatic styling, and make dramatic music videos too. They can be from major, indie or doujin music scenes. That's not limited to visual kei. Isn't Liv Moon a very obvious example (and some other bands mentioned above too)? But their stylings fit into today's fashion. If what you want is old-school '90s styles, you will probably find none from them. I am sure Japanese rock fans are fairly happy with many rock bands, regardless of the gender of the band members. Visual kei is only a very small niche made for some girls. It shouldn't be surprising if the majority of the audience is female. If you want your band to have a mixed gender audience, it either has become very very big like L'Arc, or is not part of the visual kei scene at all.

[God 264]

I saw exist trace's Q&A at Sakura Con when they were there I think...was that two years ago or three? I don't remember. Someone asked them about making music in a clearly male dominated scene and how it's affected them, etc. They responded that it's really hard to get noticed as a female VK band, but they way it was said (maybe the way the translator said it) made me think maybe they do get a lot of shit from the typical VK fangirls who dig the way it is with dudes and all. They said it's hard, even emotionally at times (if I'm remembering correctly). And, like Arithmetica said, "it's the wang."

[CELESTIAL CIEL 985]

Not that many people will care, but the guitarist of the rather obscure Celestia le ciel was a girl. The twist was that she claimed to be a guy. A cross-dressing guy. So basically, she was a girl pretending to be a guy pretending to be a girl. She only whispered during interviews and let the vocalist "translate", so she wouldn't give away her gender by her voice.

 

I know that because I translated for the band at their Germany concert several years ago. It obviously was supposed to be a secret (and quite succesfully so - there was a homosexual guy at the concert that was badly stanning for "him" - which is pretty hilarious, if you think about it XD). But since the band is long disbanded and the members retired from music, there isn't really much harm in revealing it now. Plus, I think they even had less fans in Japan than in Europe. XD

Nice people though.

 

 

That does make we wonder though if there are more women in vk that hide their gender for one reason or another.

 I don't know what to say at least because this "guy" wrote me once how "he" liked my appearance and he want to visit Russia to meet me face to face, lol.

My friend is their hardcore fan and she met them in Japan, they went for a walk together or something, I wish the second member is a guy, because without makeup he's  ugly as fuck.

[blackdoll 907]

funny thing is the women dont look as good as the guys

[Gaz 1097]

it's a bit sad that nobody has mentioned my favorite female kei band so far ;/ oh well reviving this thread with some awesomeness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SE2Gh6Sk5s

delicious vocal, great composing. some basic info about the band you can find in video description.