DogManX

Yes, we do need to come to the conclusion THAT these here are opinions. That's what you're seemingly not getting.
 
Aside from the fact that putting aside these certain characteristics we talk about just because they use "death vocals" (I wonder how long until the next hospital visit) is a poor way of making your argument. Because now you're explicitly stating you don't connect their singing styles with a sort of girlie/feminine attitude BECAUSE of certain elements within their style that YOU factually exclude from said characteristics, no matter what. Let's stay there for an example: When Asagi does those "death vocals", I feel a strong sense of feminine/girlieness coming from them. Do you want to tell me that factually this is impossible? No it isn't, it's just my perception. Or opinion, if you will. And same goes for the clean singing... for me it's not a matter of saying "oh, but he screams..that makes it sound totally manly to me". That's your approach, not mine.
 
So don't come to me with "facts". That just shows your ignorance.

I can't tell you all singers names, but just some bands that come to mind: 9Goats Black out, D, Versailles, Jupiter, Phantasmagoria (and folks), Kiryu, (what I like of) Mejibray, etc. pp. There's a lot more but right now these come to mind first. ^^

You're damn right
 
Ok this one is going to be a bit controversial:
 
I just can't enjoy VK vocalists embracing this kind of metro/homo/girlie voice style any more. I got tired of it. And it's sad since the music per se is still awesome to me. Argh-

Interesting take. I'll just respond to this very briefly as I don't have much time.
If I haven't misinterpreted what you're saying (which I hope I haven't), you're suggesting that there are two kinds of "progress" at stake - firstly, one that is based on individual value judgment ("good" or "bad"); and another that's based on some kind of adopted standard by a particular community with the relevant authority (scholars, musicologists, etc.)
The question I'll ask is whether it's even possible to parcel out the definition of "progress" in the way you've done, because for me "progress" invariably implicates a value judgment. In other words, when you say B represents a progress over A, the implication is that A => B represents a trajectory leading us to an end-state that's somehow more favorable than where we've begun. You mentioned that Schoenberg's shift to atonality is a "fresh take" that "[yields] a greater understanding of music and the relation of notes", by virtue of which it is progress. But this assertion presupposes that to have twelve-tone technique in the contemporary musical repertoire is better than not having it and being "constrained" by traditional fugal harmonies, conventional cadences, etc. This claim is true only if we accept the unstated premise that more diversity is good. It is not on the surface of the argument (B is better than A), but at the level of this underlying principle (having both A and B is better than having A alone) where the normative element is being smuggled in, the latter being a principle that's by no means universal nor totally uncontroversial (just talk to any of the conservative music scholars for starters). Put differently, with Schoenberg we can only say there is a proliferation of difference (or what the French philosopher Lyotard calls "accumulation of knowledge" in the context of technological "progress"); to equate this "accumulation" to progress is to assume there is a transcendental criterion by which "more" is adjudged to be "good".
In short: yes, there is change and accumulation and diversity. But to equate any or all of these to progress is to lapse into making a normative claim.
Just my 2c (And btw I do happen to believe that more diversity is good, lol)

Okay since this entire thing just threatens to go haywire at some point I will from now on hide all posts that aren't at least somewhat decent reviews of the album. And with decent I mean, a review that I can see was put at least a little bit of effort into. If you want to talk shit about Sadie in general (or just because you have nothing better to do fuck if I know) do it in their respective artist thread and not in here. Okay? 'Kay. This thread is for reviews only and tbqh I've seen far too many posts already that don't fit the criteria for a review thread. Also if you're gonna call people out on their circle jerking, fine with me, but also this thread isn't the place for it if you don't include a review of the album itself. Sai out.

Also as requested
 
This release is difficult to write down my thoughts.  to which kind music does this belong? I always forget. lol. screamo maybe? can someone tell me again?! lol 
 
It's simply something typical of the genre where this music belongs to. bit heavy, bit soft, bit electronic sound, heavy drum sound, heavy bass guitar, not much heavy guitar. all mixed together. Vocal is clean. sound also sound like bad METAL sometimes. it's just something between rock electronic and metal music. which makes also each song sound the same.  There is no cool real guitar solo, or a nice bass solo or a FETT drum solo. not real pure METAL heaviness.
Even now I still don't get this genre at all. I prefer real metal shizzel. which real metal drum and guitar.  and not just some heavy drumming which sound like "Metal" but what isn't Metal because it's to soft. But what isn't ROCK too. because it doesn't sound like "real" rock.
 
Of course you really can dance and maybe even headbang on this kind of music but I personal never ever will have the feeling that this kind of shizzel is THE SHIT ()/
 
Girugamesh is vocal strong. His vocal always fit the music whatever they make. However his way of singing in REDMAN is much greater.
I did do like Monster but this mini alum or big maxi single how you call it.. its simply boring. it doesn't sound better as Monster our any of their previous album. all their music simply sounds the damn same now. There is nothing new. there is no big surprise at all. They really should get rid of those boring "now in music". Where are the real old Visual Kei Gothic elements? Where are the real rock elements? 
Somehow it's a pity that the young people from now days like this kind of shizzel. Even if it's alright and good but it's always the same. It was cool a few years ago when it was new, but now... no thank you.
They would have balls if they would make some Gothic Electronic nu Metal screamo shizzel. lol Get the gothic back giru! otherwise they will stay boring for me.
 
This release is simply to boring for me to give ratings or opinion for each song... since to me every song sounds the damn same.
 
my own rating on my taste:
Rating without taste: Satoshi could at least sing with more feelings to make the songs sound different.

There's nohing bad with being stuck in a loop as long as what you're doing are of high quaity. As long as the quality of the music (or your art in general, be it music, film, comics, books or whatever) doesn't drop there's not a single need of change to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind bands changing their sound, but I don't mind bands staying the same either.

Wow. My opinion already makes people mad. I definitely did a hit here.
 
@ miyuu You don't seem to understand the very topic we talk about. In real life you may make understandable points about the "progress" of technique and social issues, but music is art. It is completely subject to individual perception. As is your opinion on the value of change in music. And this is not about "blocking change". You totally missed the point here. This is about people valuating change in music artists based on their personal interests, putting labels like "progress", "regress" or "development" or "maturity" on it. And about me saying these statements cannot be made reasonably, because they merely reflect the personal favor of the one making them, as you f.e. demonstrated multiple times now.

aren't we expressing opinions. i can describe however i want. i don't get your point . is there a correct way to express your opinion? why people should not use those when they say their opinion.
if you are talking to me. i am not mad. i have no clue what you are saying most of the times. i can't understand your point. hiroki makes me understand better.
i think your english is fine. but i seriouly can't understand what you are trying to say and what your point is
 
edit: oh wait i think i get it. all this time you are just telling me that  your unpopular opinion is when people use these words
to describe you are annoyed or disagree with the use. omfg and i am having all this conversation. xD orz.
it's an opinion though, some people see progress. personally it depends on the case  what i will say.

No, what DogManX is simply saying is that there is no "good" or "bad" change independent of the person making the judgement, i.e. you, another fan of the band, or whoever else.
Let me break it down. To say that a band's music has "changed" is to be making an objective, factual statement - namely, you listen to the band's music and point out how certain aspects of it are now different from before. No one is even going to dispute these factual claims unless they're deaf or you're plain wrong. But to say that the music has "progressed" (or regressed) is to add a normative spin on whatever it is that has changed - you are making a value judgment, and this claim being made is only specific to you, and anyone else who (happens to) agree with you.
I'm in complete agreement with DogManX here, even if it may be an unpopular opinion. You said that "without a degree of change there is no progress". Implicit in this is the presupposition that there is such a thing as "progress" that is separable from whoever it is that decides what "progress" means, and which everyone ought to strive towards regardless. This is already a very dubious claim in politics, but even more so when we find ourselves in the sphere of art and aesthetics (which music is part of). Does abstract art represent "progress" from Renaissance painting? How about Prokofiev over Bach? 20th-century stream-of-consciousness literature over Charles Dickens? Who decides?

@ miyuu
 
I didn't take positions. I merely took your position and explained how this is a matter of opinion. If you view band's changes as "mature" and a "healthy" thing generally, then that's based on your point of view what "maturity" in music really is and why bands "have" to change in favor of health (unless their music is not "absolutely perfect" as you phrased it).
 
You represent the fairly common opinion that change is necessary and/or has to be accepted as a sign of maturity or development, take it as you like.
 
My UNPOPULAR OPINION was that I don't take positions in this issue and precisely, I don't promote the view that an artist's change generally has a "good" value of any sort, may it be maturity or development or the mere necessity of doing so. Simply for the fact that it doesn't prove a point other than your personal favor, which you ironically fabulously presented in your last 2 sentences.
 
This wasn't meant to be a discussion to elaborate your points of view, I only highlighted THAT your had this point of view. I don't use words like "maturity" in music.

Change or "progression" in musical style or appearance is widely viewed a positive value. That may have the reason that we as a human race always want to overcome old structures or previous generations.
On the contrary, people who speak for stagnation or against progression for certain artists or bands are often turned down to be elitist trolls or whatever.
 
I don't believe that any of the arguments can be generally applied (for the UNPOPULAR OPINION mainly the argument for progression) as it contains generally a matter of taste.
In fact, I believe people only use this "bands have to develop to stay good" argument if they themselves have no problem with the end result of band's progressions they base their argumentation on.

I'll just post this last one since it wasn't reduced to "japanese band's" openers, was it? I'm sorry if the opposite would be the case.
However, I find the epicness just astounding in this case. Fun thing is that this song works just as well as a finisher.
 
Ex Deo - Romulus

Best album openers? Easily
 
Dir en grey - Audience Killer Loop

Very strong opener. Haunting atmosphere and killer riff.
 
Nightmare - 蛹 (Sanagi)

Sets up a great mood for the follower "Varuna", that guitar line is just great.
 
D'espairsRay - Damned

(...), this is the most awesome opener with the most powerful riff of all time.

Best album openers? Easily
 
Dir en grey - Audience Killer Loop

Very strong opener. Haunting atmosphere and killer riff.
 
Nightmare - 蛹 (Sanagi)

Sets up a great mood for the follower "Varuna", that guitar line is just great.
 
D'espairsRay - Damned

(...), this is the most awesome opener with the most powerful riff of all time.

I fell of the Belphegor-wagon a long time ago and haven't found anything released after Lucifer Incestus interesting. But Blutsabbath, Necrodaemon Terrorsathan and Lucifer Incestus are all fantastic albums.

I've always been under impression that KPP was created with international sales/touring/viral potential in mind - it would make no sense to restrict her exposure in this way.
 
same with babymetal.

To put this in short: This album should have been shortened to an EP containing the following songs:
 
1. ENIGMA
2. DEAD BLAZE
3. THE UNDERWORLD
4. BREATH
5. SADISTIC SMILE
6. FEAR
 
If it'd have looked like this, I would have given it a generous 6/10. It's not bad, but it's far from outstanding. It all sounds badly recycled, and the only revolutionary thing about it really is the synth part in THE UNDERWORLD and the continuous tapping in FEAR. Both sounds good and fun to listen to, even if THE UNDERWORLD falls back into 0815 jrock metalcore formula once the chorus starts. The other 4 songs also sound good, they're energetic and supported by acceptale chorus sections. But it simply lacks tracks like "THE END" who highlighted the previous album with their outstanding quality.
 
I'm not even going to mention the remaining songs, since they are literally nothing. While listening to the album I really asked myself "Wait a moment... did I just listen to a song? Because I don't remember".
 
Compared to this, lynch's GALLOWS is a masterpiece.

After listening to the late single, I ask myself if bands like exist trace actually care at all about the music they do. So sad.

I'm not familiar with Belphegor's previous output (yet!) but the new album is indeed nice! Reminds me of Behemoth a bit (but still kinda different and maybe more "technical" has a nice atmosphere).

I'd highly recommend Moonsorrow's Verisäkeet and V: Hävitetty as well. Progressive viking metal. Fantastic albums. Dark and epic.
 
 
 
Inferno Festival released their five first bands for next years Inferno today. Impressive names, even though I am not too keen on ay of them:
 
Behemoth
Enslaved
My Dying Bride
SepticFlesh
Antichrist
 
Very impressive names, that. Will most likely check out both My Dying Bride and Behemoth as I have never seen any of them before, and both have released some good albums in recent years.

What to say to it..? They have been totally commercialized on a musical and visual level. If they continue like Virgin and Diamond, there's not very much to cheer upon them. They're nice to look at right now, that's all.

Also another thread where we can discuss this whole "old VK is better/worse" thing (Gaz posted a link to another thread)
 
The title of this thread is definitely misleading a bit. Also everyone else has said, what's to say and mentioned the shift in interests, copyright and so on. I want to add a bit of my perspective, mainly from my subjective experience with the Austrian and German fanbase, which is mostly based on real life experiences (with my rather tiny and small local VK fanbase) and what i have witnessed on several national and German Forums, Boards and Websites.
 
I came in contact with VK in 2003 and 2004. I have heard of it even earlier in Anime Magazines, but didn't pay any attention to it. Back at this time it was difficult to get information on VK bands. Only if you have been to Japan yourself you would have come into contact with more obscure indies bands. The groups that were known over here were all the big groups, the ones signed to major labels or which were pretty popular and well established: Dir en grey, Malice Mizer, Buck-Tick, Luna Sea, Pierrot, L'arc~en~Ciel, Moi dix Mois and Gackt (technically not VK, but he was in Malice and so appealed to the european fans). My first real experience with VK was, when the distributor Gan-Shin was founded and started to release some VK CDs here. Mind you, they were still hard to get, at least in Austria. Only one store carried Dir en grey and Moi dix Mois' albums and so I bought them. The only reason why I knew about these bands was because of Manga magazines.
 
I am sure there were several people in the early 00s who came to VK not through the Anime "Scene" but I'll say for the majority of the fanbase at this time this was the entrance. Let's say 90% of the German fanbase at least was compromised of Manga reading Weaboos, who threw around japanese words in their German sentences, because it was so cool and so on. VK appealed to them, because they already lived in a fantasy world and bubble, where everything is "kawaii" and where Japan was the garden Eden of the Earth, filled with hot crossdressing men. The Anime fandom was very big at the time, as we were still in the midst of the Anime and Manga boom, which started somewhere in the mid to late 90s. Everything japanese was considered "fresh", "new" and "exotic".
 
Now more then 10 years have passed and surely the world isn't the same. Nowadays everything is much more accessible. You don't need to spend shitton of money and habe patience to be able to get your hands on a new CD of your favourite VK band. You can buy their CD now easily in Online Stores or just download them. The Anime and Manga boom is over too. Being a Weaboo was always frowned upon, but today it seems to have become an even heavier stigma. In the 00s young teens still could go away trying to appear unique and cool by dressing up as self proclaimed "Visus" (yeah, they really saw Visual kei as some kind of subculture…) and shout "people who criticize me just don't understand it!". But if you do this today, then you are considered highly immature, dumb and annoying.
 
Of course most of those "Visus" grew out of it (and very fast). Almost no one of these people I knew (and have even seen in real life) sticked to it. Most of them moved on and became "normal". Others entered other subcultures in the course of the 00s (such as Scene and recently Hipster). A big majority of them don't even want to remember their old self, when they cosplayed as Kyo or Ruki daily (even to school) and probaböy washed their hair only once every 8 days (I am not joking. Many Visus' outfits and body hygiene were bad). I have to say that the current and modern fanbase isn't nearly as crazy as the old one. The cosplays and outfits have gotten better and I feel the amount of delusional fans has started to decrease.
 
So simply put: because it was new and because the Anime/Manga community offered a quick and well guided portal to it, VK was very popular here between 2004 and 2008. It was still fresh and the many japanese oriented fansites and boards were often the only information sources – hence there was also a bit more of a sense of community. Many places were similiar in activity and interest as MH is now. People regulary chatted about what band X is doing, even if the topics were often arbitrary. When I look into the same forums today, there is almost no activity left. That surely gives you the impression as if the VK fan scene would be dead. But MH actually disproves it. I'd say that since VK has become "normalized" and doesn't seem so new and exotic anymore (and since many people have stopped paying attention to it), the scene has become a lot smaller.
 
It's true however (but that's more for the new vs old VK thread) that many people left the scene, because the music has changed and they don't pay any attention to newer releases. I am sure some of them still enjoy the old music they have come to like, but they don't care about any new releases or bands. I myself had stopped listening to VK between 2006 and 2007 (which was a rather short pause anyway). VK lost some fans, as it started to become different, but as you can see it also gained new ones. I guess we could discuss this as some kind of generational conflict (as many of the new fans are in the age we old ones were when we first discovered VK, but yet grew up with other music and have different tastes) in the other thread.
 
Also finally: are music videos really that important anymore? I have the feeling that it's not only limited to VK, but the overall music scene. Music videos don't seem to have the same value as they did maybe 10 or 20 years ago, when MVs were broadcasted on MTV (when it was still mainly a music TV channel) and MVs were often produced with high budget. My mom used to own Michael Jackson's Thriller music video on VHS and it was the extended long edition with Making of. The VHS was probably around 2 or 3 hours. It was expensive, but she loved it and watched it many times. How often do we modern consumers watch a MV? Would we buy a MV with making of for 20-30€? I don't think so. Many people have stated they watch PVs and MVs one time on youtube and never again. We live in a world, where everything has started to become fast lived and is consumed like Junk Food. This is logical, because the WWW offers so much and in masses at a few clicks. Our consuming behaviour isn't the same, so I guess the aproach to MVs and PVs has changed drastically. I know a band which personally would like to make MVs for their music, but they don't do it, because they know people would watch them one time and it would be more expensive and profitable. And before they are forced to do a 0815 cheap low budget one they rather produce none.

Somehow I'm skeptical that foreigners' interest in vk is declining. Of course this isn't something quantifiable, but taking a cursory look at Twitter will suggest that even the indies vk bands show some awareness of their foreign fanbase (whether and to what extent they cater to this fanbase is a separate question). Also, the sheer number of VK bands having overseas tours these days indicates that there's still a healthy demand for vk bands outside of Japan - in addition to those who have toured Europe in the past couple of years, bands like DIV, Plastic Tree, Royz also regularly perform in Asia.
 
The youtube question is tricky, and like what Zess has said I suspect it's more of a consequence of copyright enforcement than a reliable index of foreign popularity. Just look at how many PV or full songs of obscure indies as well as disbanded bands do exist on youtube because there's a lot less surveillance in that case and these videos get taken down a lot less than e.g. Nightmare or ViViD PVs. Which is kinda ironic because obviously the disbanded bands won't be there to benefit from the publicization of their music lol.
 
Also, it'll be great if ppl can stop using "vk is dying!" as a sneaky shorthand for "the kind of vk I like is dying!".....

Well someone has to be a man in the band..to compensate for Shinya you know..
 
 
..wait. Is he sitting on a naked man's ass????