Ikna

I know I am going to open a big can of worms, but being active in the goth subculture for so many years and knowing people in the scene personally who have been part of this thing since the early 80s, I say the whole thing about gawf being a counter-culture misanthropic youth fashion trend is wrong and some cliché that the media came up with during the age of the Satanic Panic and ran with it.
 
It's been (and will always be) about the music and not so much the clothes or hating everyone (lol, most old wavers and goffs I know are so perky you'd think they are all untrve poseurs if you didn't knew any better). I know that's an argument many people do not like, because that means it takes more than heavy eyeliner and tacky shillstar clothes made in Bangladesh - such as actually liking some post-punk and goth music. And many people think they need that dreaded "G" label to prove how different they are from mainstream society and will fight tooth and nail that they "deserve" the label because of how they dress, which is something I don't get.

Also I have never met any of these people who wear 800 euros and more on their skin in the actual real life. These people primarily exist on the web, where they belong in the same bin with every other cancerous social media clown and influencer, or they walk around big festivals to get photographed (but never actually engage with anyone or pay attention to the music). I feel most of these "goff" people who are sponsor for some brand are just some regular alt chicks who realized that selling themselves as rebellious, edgy person makes them somehow different (and thus more authentic) than the hundred other people who do the same, but for some "normie" brand.  Then there are the few cases where people from the scene did become greedy and partake in this shit. But right now there is a nice backlash against it, so it#s not like everyone is okay with it. In fact, people have been arguing a long time that it#s not a fashion contest.
 
Most people at goth (and adjacent) events, club nights and concerts are piss poor or know to spend their money for more important things. If they wear that awful blunder then they usually buy it secondhand. And considering how the scene is slowly falling to gentrification, many don't even dress up anymore, and that's totally okay. It's only in web communities that people get so uptight and act like assholes. Which isn't so surprising, but that's also why I really recommend to get outside more and leave the internet for some time. Ever since I started to go out more again, meeting real people and reducing my online presence to a bare minimum, I have been much happier. 
 
Anyway, my stupid cents on this topic, since it seems to have made some big waves online. And I am glad it does. I think the same can and should be applied to any music scene, culture or just society in general; one doesn't need to worship some fucking brand to feel better about themselves and looks aren't everything. Sadly people give influencers way too much credit, even when they know that these people are paid by companies to sell their trash and will base their entire self worth on some criteria tailored by the folks that run good old capitalism. 

I know I am going to open a big can of worms, but being active in the goth subculture for so many years and knowing people in the scene personally who have been part of this thing since the early 80s, I say the whole thing about gawf being a counter-culture misanthropic youth fashion trend is wrong and some cliché that the media came up with during the age of the Satanic Panic and ran with it.
 
It's been (and will always be) about the music and not so much the clothes or hating everyone (lol, most old wavers and goffs I know are so perky you'd think they are all untrve poseurs if you didn't knew any better). I know that's an argument many people do not like, because that means it takes more than heavy eyeliner and tacky shillstar clothes made in Bangladesh - such as actually liking some post-punk and goth music. And many people think they need that dreaded "G" label to prove how different they are from mainstream society and will fight tooth and nail that they "deserve" the label because of how they dress, which is something I don't get.

Also I have never met any of these people who wear 800 euros and more on their skin in the actual real life. These people primarily exist on the web, where they belong in the same bin with every other cancerous social media clown and influencer, or they walk around big festivals to get photographed (but never actually engage with anyone or pay attention to the music). I feel most of these "goff" people who are sponsor for some brand are just some regular alt chicks who realized that selling themselves as rebellious, edgy person makes them somehow different (and thus more authentic) than the hundred other people who do the same, but for some "normie" brand.  Then there are the few cases where people from the scene did become greedy and partake in this shit. But right now there is a nice backlash against it, so it#s not like everyone is okay with it. In fact, people have been arguing a long time that it#s not a fashion contest.
 
Most people at goth (and adjacent) events, club nights and concerts are piss poor or know to spend their money for more important things. If they wear that awful blunder then they usually buy it secondhand. And considering how the scene is slowly falling to gentrification, many don't even dress up anymore, and that's totally okay. It's only in web communities that people get so uptight and act like assholes. Which isn't so surprising, but that's also why I really recommend to get outside more and leave the internet for some time. Ever since I started to go out more again, meeting real people and reducing my online presence to a bare minimum, I have been much happier. 
 
Anyway, my stupid cents on this topic, since it seems to have made some big waves online. And I am glad it does. I think the same can and should be applied to any music scene, culture or just society in general; one doesn't need to worship some fucking brand to feel better about themselves and looks aren't everything. Sadly people give influencers way too much credit, even when they know that these people are paid by companies to sell their trash and will base their entire self worth on some criteria tailored by the folks that run good old capitalism. 

I know I am going to open a big can of worms, but being active in the goth subculture for so many years and knowing people in the scene personally who have been part of this thing since the early 80s, I say the whole thing about gawf being a counter-culture misanthropic youth fashion trend is wrong and some cliché that the media came up with during the age of the Satanic Panic and ran with it.
 
It's been (and will always be) about the music and not so much the clothes or hating everyone (lol, most old wavers and goffs I know are so perky you'd think they are all untrve poseurs if you didn't knew any better). I know that's an argument many people do not like, because that means it takes more than heavy eyeliner and tacky shillstar clothes made in Bangladesh - such as actually liking some post-punk and goth music. And many people think they need that dreaded "G" label to prove how different they are from mainstream society and will fight tooth and nail that they "deserve" the label because of how they dress, which is something I don't get.

Also I have never met any of these people who wear 800 euros and more on their skin in the actual real life. These people primarily exist on the web, where they belong in the same bin with every other cancerous social media clown and influencer, or they walk around big festivals to get photographed (but never actually engage with anyone or pay attention to the music). I feel most of these "goff" people who are sponsor for some brand are just some regular alt chicks who realized that selling themselves as rebellious, edgy person makes them somehow different (and thus more authentic) than the hundred other people who do the same, but for some "normie" brand.  Then there are the few cases where people from the scene did become greedy and partake in this shit. But right now there is a nice backlash against it, so it#s not like everyone is okay with it. In fact, people have been arguing a long time that it#s not a fashion contest.
 
Most people at goth (and adjacent) events, club nights and concerts are piss poor or know to spend their money for more important things. If they wear that awful blunder then they usually buy it secondhand. And considering how the scene is slowly falling to gentrification, many don't even dress up anymore, and that's totally okay. It's only in web communities that people get so uptight and act like assholes. Which isn't so surprising, but that's also why I really recommend to get outside more and leave the internet for some time. Ever since I started to go out more again, meeting real people and reducing my online presence to a bare minimum, I have been much happier. 
 
Anyway, my stupid cents on this topic, since it seems to have made some big waves online. And I am glad it does. I think the same can and should be applied to any music scene, culture or just society in general; one doesn't need to worship some fucking brand to feel better about themselves and looks aren't everything. Sadly people give influencers way too much credit, even when they know that these people are paid by companies to sell their trash and will base their entire self worth on some criteria tailored by the folks that run good old capitalism. 

^to be fair, almost every 90s and early 00s VK bandomen had these sharpie brows, lmao.
 

 
It was a very 90s thing, as seen with Gwen Stefani. It was over the top and ridiculous and I love it. 

^to be fair, almost every 90s and early 00s VK bandomen had these sharpie brows, lmao.
 

 
It was a very 90s thing, as seen with Gwen Stefani. It was over the top and ridiculous and I love it. 

^have tinnitus as well, but since childhood. And it's likely not going away. But so far it's not that loud, so most of the times the environment noise is loud enough to overshadow it. Only in quiet places and at night it can be annoying.
 
Plus I have been diagnosed recently with an autoimmune disease that affects the thyroids, but had it much longer (it was discovered while making tests for something else). I am still in the process of adjusting the dosage for my thyroid hormones and it's hell. Sometiimes I have symptoms of a hypothyreosis, sometimes of a hyperthyreosis and I don't seem to get better at all. I also have stomach cramps, but I am not 100% sure it's from my illness. And I am afraid that it could be something bad (or another shit to deal with)

Pretty telling how people dislike it because it involves Karma, but since it's not br00tal and AvelCain-ish enough it's regarded the worst of all (even tough AvelCain was even shittier, since additional to sucky vocals no one could write or play instruments).
 
The same people however praise nostalgic indie shit like La'veil Mizeria to the heavens, despite Kikyo being just as incompetent in holding his notes. If this band had some no1curr vocalist people would be creaming themselves, yelling "true saviors of Visual kei!".
 
 

I don't find Mia's face appealing at all. To me he is a good example of plastic surgery gone wrong. His face looks so unnatural and stiff, in some photoshoots it often reaches the maximum of the uncanny valley 

AvelCain was a band with good moments in a largely forgettable discography, and those moments were when they managed to sound somewhat like a band and still retain that spirit. The problem wasn't that they were raw or something ( although the general consensus on MH is still that if a vocalist wouldn't be up to scratch competing in American Idol, he's probably shit and certainly not something one could be playing to their friends and relatives, ) but that they could barely even decide on a sound between all the chinese restaurant ost gimmicks, nu metal riffs and vaguely old school ballads and freak outs; and all of this exploration was being done with minimal musicianship while still insisting on having a clean studio sound ( which sounded awful to the point of almost being reminiscent of western vk production ) and making defined songs instead of bursts of noise which they probably should've been doing instead. For every Psycho and ID they had an ocean of mediocrity that Karma's lifestyle performance art took a level above. Idk what's the totality of their composition credits but I wouldn't be surprised if everything they made themselves was shit. 
 
This project sounds like he's finally going for something, a sound with a concise aesthetic and the influences he's working with here definitely mean that this is in the right side of history even if it isn't the best thing going 
 
so poseurs leave the hall. 
 
 

Pretty telling how people dislike it because it involves Karma, but since it's not br00tal and AvelCain-ish enough it's regarded the worst of all (even tough AvelCain was even shittier, since additional to sucky vocals no one could write or play instruments).
 
The same people however praise nostalgic indie shit like La'veil Mizeria to the heavens, despite Kikyo being just as incompetent in holding his notes. If this band had some no1curr vocalist people would be creaming themselves, yelling "true saviors of Visual kei!".
 
 

Pretty telling how people dislike it because it involves Karma, but since it's not br00tal and AvelCain-ish enough it's regarded the worst of all (even tough AvelCain was even shittier, since additional to sucky vocals no one could write or play instruments).
 
The same people however praise nostalgic indie shit like La'veil Mizeria to the heavens, despite Kikyo being just as incompetent in holding his notes. If this band had some no1curr vocalist people would be creaming themselves, yelling "true saviors of Visual kei!".
 
 

Pretty telling how people dislike it because it involves Karma, but since it's not br00tal and AvelCain-ish enough it's regarded the worst of all (even tough AvelCain was even shittier, since additional to sucky vocals no one could write or play instruments).
 
The same people however praise nostalgic indie shit like La'veil Mizeria to the heavens, despite Kikyo being just as incompetent in holding his notes. If this band had some no1curr vocalist people would be creaming themselves, yelling "true saviors of Visual kei!".
 
 

Most visual kei vocalists are terrible. Apparently, that's also an unpopular opinion. I am aware of the fact, that not all visual kei singers are bad. But most really are. Especially in the indie vk sector you will find terrible vocalists who ruin the actually decent or good music. I am one of those people who like "crappy" old indie vk bands. Of course I also enjoy the "better" bands of the era, such as Luna Sea, Rouage, Laputa, Pierrot and Co. and I'd say that their vocalists are not terrible but still an aquired taste. What I like about visual rock the most are not directly the vocals (as they are often craptastic) or lyrics (as I can't understand them), but the music and overall concept and the overall atmosphere a band creates.
Though I admit that a lot bands actually get their interesting and unique sound because of their singers. I couldn't imagine Madeth gray'll being as awesome and dark as they are if Hisui would hit every note.
 
What puts me off of modern visual bands are the Metalcore influences. I have already mentioned this in the biggest crimes of japanese music thread, that I find it unbearable to listen to visual kei singers trying to growl when they have totally no clue how it's properly done. It fucking hurts to listen to and it does not make me wonder why visual kei singers suffer so often from problems with their voice or vocal chords. I know vocal training lessons are expensive and take time... but vk bands should really invest more into it if they don't want to risk their vocalits to damage their voice for ever.
Also I don't like the way most of these bands (including Mejibray) sing. I am more found of clear singing or the way old vk bands have screamed. So it's more personal taste than anything. But I agree that Tsusuku's voice isn't that well and he sounds like any other neo visual kei singer trying to growl or scream. Maybe I am not good at hearing, but for me D.I.D, Mejibray and Co. sound exactly the same (especially style-wise).

This thread needs a revival, there's been so much good stuff in the scene lately!
 
New Skeletal faces are a pretty dope deathrock band and my recent find:
 
 
Trashlight are making some heavily shoegaze inspired post-punk/goth music, their EP is fresh and new:
 
 
Another great deathrock band that recently released a debut EP, Nox Novacula:
 
 
Also kaelan Mikla and Whisperign Sons are going to drop an album in the following weeks. The songs they have released for preview are already very promising:
 
 

This thread needs a revival, there's been so much good stuff in the scene lately!
 
New Skeletal faces are a pretty dope deathrock band and my recent find:
 
 
Trashlight are making some heavily shoegaze inspired post-punk/goth music, their EP is fresh and new:
 
 
Another great deathrock band that recently released a debut EP, Nox Novacula:
 
 
Also kaelan Mikla and Whisperign Sons are going to drop an album in the following weeks. The songs they have released for preview are already very promising:
 
 

I am taking the freedom to revive this thread, though with a more specific question (or more of a personal thought I want to share). I have been thinking the last days a lot about the connection and possible influence of japanese popculture, especially manga and anime, and Visual kei.
Now we surely have all come in contact with a lot of foreign "journalists" who branded Visual kei as some kind of real life version of Manga characters. I am sure we all can disagree with them at first though it's understandable that they come to that conclusion as many VK hairstyles seem to be borrowed right from a shonen manga. But maybe that assumption isn't even that far off. So comes my question: did Mangas and Animes have had an influence on Visual kei? And how big is it? Are VK bands the real life versions of a shojo manga reading girl's wet dreams?
It's certain that Visual kei music and bands had influence over Manga artists so it seems more logical that the type of leather wearing bishonen with long or crazy styled hair are the result of manga artists stanning for their favourite musicians and vocalists. See Kaori Yuki who is probably most well known for having integrated typical VK fashion into her Mangas (especially Angel Sanctuary, which is filled with VK guys). I remember people pointing out that some of her characters are even based on real VK bandmember, such as Hyde (L'arc~en~Ciel)
What I found very interesting (and a nice look into early 90s VK history) was the connection between VK and Shojo mangas. In 1989 Manga-ka Kusumoto Maki started to work on the shojo manga Kissxxx. The story is about the love between the singer Kanon and the sister of his bands' bassist. Kanon is the vocal of a punk band called "Die Küsse" (which may ring a bell). Maki was apparently inspired by local punk, post-punk and wave bands and bases the look of Kanon on those. At the same time Visual kei was taking influences from these genres as well. I am not sure if Visual rock already existed as a word at that time, but Kanon can still be seen as your prototypical VK guy.
According to comments surrounding the manga Kissxxx had a huge influence on VK (and not the other way round it seems). It may be oldest record of the phrase "Eins, Zwei, Drei, Vier" to appear in connection with VK. I don't think it has started to be become a ctachphrase in VK until 1990 at least. (but someone can proof me wrong anytime)

In the early 90s Penicllin have made a song and video about the manga, featuring Hakuei as Kanon (and replaying some of the key scenes of the manga. Also all outfits are based on the original character's clothes)


Then there was a 90s VK band called DIE KUSSE. Mejibray named a song after the fictional band too, but according to Tsuzuku the song isn't directly connected to the manga (but the line "eins, zwei, drei, vier" is referenced and according to the same interview about the single Meto aimed for the punk look because Kanon was in a punk band). I am sure there are many more groups referencing the story or taking inspiration from it. Kusumoto Maki also did a illustration for the cover of Vk band's Gilles de Rais album 殺意. And I think Deshabillz borrowed a picture from an eye (in one of the chapter pages) from the manga for a cover of their tape.
So yeah… maybe that does add a bit to the whole 90s Vk history and where it got it's influences. It would be cool if someone was able to translate really old magazine articles as this would help "recovering" some of it's history. I find it strange how no one has ever mentioned the influence of manga in such a discussion though.

About the blackface thing: seeing how tsuzuku’s and Ryoga’s make up are executed I wouldn’t call it blackface at all. Blackface is a very well defined term (even though some oversensitive “everything offends me!”-yelling people disagree) and comes with certain characteristics. Just slapping some black paint onto your face is not blackface. Blackface is meant to make fun of black people. so it comes with the wearer exhibiting manierism, that are ignorantly associated with being black, such as painting very large, red lips, wearing clothes of a jazz musician or hip-hopper and using a specific body language. None of this applies to these two.
 
I agree though, that this happened a few times with K-Pop musicians who dressed up as rappers.

^ well, there are quite a few bands who sound like they could be from that era. It‘s not so obscure as actual 90s style oldschool bands. See DEZERT, Kuroyuri to kage, Gossip, AvelCain, Crimson Shiva, Sibilebashir, etc. The 00s sound hasn‘t completely died out yet. In fact, some of the bands of this era managed  to survive way into the early 2010s. I remember there were still enough Gazette copycats around in 2010. True it‘s slowly starting to fade away as Metalcore has become the next big thing, but a few bands still clinge to it.
 
Being a hopeless nostalgic I can understand where you are coming from, but can‘t agree 100%. The style has changed and the scene is pumping out one Royz-clone after another, but it would be wrong to idealize the past and say, that everything was better back then. The video and production quality seems to be the scapegaot in most discussions, but honestly: it wasn‘t as good as we claim. That doesn‘t mean that all PVs in the 90s and 00s were Matina-style low budget crap filmed on a shaky handcam with the band dancing around in the forest or wrapping themselves in toilet paper, but there wasn‘t as much budget as today. PVs nowadays look a lot better, because the technology may have become more affordable.
 
I also don‘t think that the production has gotten worse (it can‘t be worse than the ‘production’ some obscure VK bands had in the 90s when they recorded their songs in a 5m2 bathroom), maybe their instrumental just happen to sound bad. One thing I noticed with many indies VK bands emerging since the early 00s were the boring 3 chord (or less) riffs. Those were particulary bad in some low budget Nu Metal bands (plus half assed growls). My main beef with modern VK is that the bands want to play Nu Metal or Metalcore so badly, but either don‘t have the skill or the will to learn it. I am not an expert on this issue, since I am not really a big Metal fan, but I am sure that 90% of these VK bands don't even scratch on the surface of what are good growls or ‘harsh vocals’. I really can’t stand listening to random or reptitive guitar slamming and growls and screams so bad it gives me a headache. Which is the main reason why I stay away from this music (even though I listen to AvelCain and Karma‘s voice sometimes exhibits the same problem. I then often just skip the song or part…)

Both parties sure have points, but what bugs me more is that so many people paint the "elders" of the scene as narcistic assholes who are jealosuy of other bands and who try to overestimate their own success. Because his is not true. Of what should the elders be jealous? And why? After all, groups like LUNA SEA, KJamaitachi, X Japan and Pierrot were extremely popular and influential on the genre. It wouldn't really make sense if they were jealous of all these bands in the VK scene that started out (in one point of history) as their copy bands. New Visual kei is vastly different from old VK, but if you trace back the history of any modern band, epecially big bands like the Gazette, you will always end at LUNA SEA and their peers from that time.

Also I am sure that most modern VK musicians are aware of the influence those old bands had. I am sure too that they all admire their elders. Therefore painting the elders as ignorant, envious assholes is pretty mean and not right. Also: why aren't they allowed to give their own opinion on VK? They were pretty much the creators, the fathers of VK. If it wasn't for them, VK wouldn't even be a thing nowadays. So they have all the reason to talk about it as they want. You don't have to agree with them, you don't even need to listen to them. It doesn't hurt you either that most of them disllike what their "baby" has grown into. I don't really understand how sensible one can be when the opinion of one musician makes you so angry that you have to talk bad about them. But maybe I am just growing sick and tired of people banging their heads against each other, just because their precious Kyo has said something about VK which they didn't like. (Also sure that in at least 20 years the popular VK bands of today will say the same about the next generation of VK bands)

And on a side note: LUNA SEA and Co. were definitely original, at least in their time span, when VK wasn't really thing and not many bands played in this style. In my opinion they are even original today. There may have been a lot of copy cats, but no other band actually reached the same level they had. Their impact on the japanese music scene was pretty big too, and wasn't just limited to futire Visual kei, but probably japanese rock music in general. I doubt that Sugizo is envious of "modern stuff" as their music is timeless and perfect as it is. And show me any modern day VK band that has reached the same legendary status, influence and fame that LUNA SEA have, please. And I am saying this as someone who isn't such a big fan of them. But I am not an igorant idiot and claim that they are a forgettable band who didn't pull of anything.

(I may agree with the statement about Angelo, but not Dir en grey. The latter don't even have any connection to VK anymore, so comparing their current stylistic direction with the stagnation of today's VK scene is far-fetched. And them playing their old songs form time to time doesn't really count and doesn't make them VK)

They are really on a roll. So far i liked the last singles, thankfully they didn't changed their sound so much under starwave (which was everybody's concern). I just wish they'd finally release a full lenght album though. But I guess splitting albums into a shitload of singles and selling them individually makes more money :V

Aie is def. the real, true & undisputed nagoya kei KING. No contest whatsoever.
 
(also remember when people thought Nagoya Kei = heavy & brutal back in the days? fuck that era)

Wtf did I just read? 

Not just vibes, I actually think they took that elody from a MM song. It is so oddly familiar…

Hm... I have to disagree. Now I am not really a big Metal fan (despite I have been one of those silly mallgoth kids who listened to Dimmu Borgir and so on... but lost interest into it) and I am not very happy with the evolution of visual kei. My problem with neo visual these days aren't really that bands have drastically changed, but their sound doesn't attract me. Of course we could argue how many bands today really play Metal and I bet there aren't that much left. Most vk bands play just simply harder rock or Metalcore, but not straight Metal. Or their Metal compositions are pretty weak and technically bad compared to "real" Metal bands and that would also explain why most Metalheads avoid VK like the plague or see it as a kind of a joke.
So I'd rather blame Metalcore and that whole Badass Indie Rock fad (also Electro/Technorock...).
 
Isn't it pretty logical that Metal is as poseurish as VK when Visual kei was an offspring of the japanese (Hair) Metal scene? Despite all the post-punk and goth influences old school visual kei too had a big amount of Metal influences. Probably not as strong or obvious than the fathers of visual kei (X, Aion and friends) or modern visual bands, but it was there. You can't really explain all that "br00tal" guitar slamming and growling in faster old school songs with "that's the post-punk influence". Goth normally isn't that aggressive (except maybe deathrock, which also had some influence on 90s visual kei. But a deathrocker would turn your neck for comparing it with Metal).
 
And to the old school topic: I  sadly am one of your elitist Goth fuckers. Seriously, I enjoy New Wave and post-punk songs more than modern gawfick music and Metal. That already makes me ignorant towards new visual kei. Though I am not sure if we can really consider old school vk to be that full of gothic influences. There are definitely metal influences too and there have been groups like Velladonna and Vasalla, which I can't really put under the goth-wave tag. I guess our very perception about what old visual kei is, is distorted by our favour for labels like Matina or Soleil. But old visual kei was much more than those amateurish indie bands. There were so many bands who played a mix of all kinds of musical styles that once upon a time were really popular in both Great Britain, the US and Japan. Old school visual kei even had electronic or "industrial" bands (Dune xxx? Blame Honey?)
 
I still have the same opinion I had in the last threads i discussed this topic. I will always favour old school visual kei bands more, because they just have the sound i like and I am honest about my intolerance. And I pretty much entered the whole visual thing with groups like old Dir en grey, Malice Mizer, Moi dix Mois and Coll:Set era D'espairsRay. Visual kei has changed, I can understand that. Like I have said in another thread, visual kei was always doomed to adapt to current trends and transforming into something else in order to survive. The scene still has some pearls to offer in the big pile of shit (which isn't a mere neo visual problem, as the flood of terrible bands already started 1996 and probably before). There are some pearls even I like. But visual kei today has become something entirely different, musically and visually. And yeah, I also tend to look after great visuals. I don't do that in other genres (seriously... there aren't that many well dressed or beautiful people in most alternative genres, including post-punk) but I do that when I search for new vk bands. Why? Because it's called visual kei and therefore I can consider their looks to be an important part of the band. When I see agroup which has interesting looks I kinda start to wonder if they also sound good. Mostly, I am going to be disapoointed, but hey... I tried
 
The only thing that pisses me off as an old school lover is the fact, that the scene doesn't offer good kote kei bands. Most people nowadays just don't give a shit about the 90s bands and the possible target audience is little and small- which means that there will always be only a few bands playing this style. I can accept that, as there will only be as much groups as ther is demand for them. But unfortunately (or sadly?) all of these bands have potential but don't use it; instead they just copy and play the same shit we have heard 10 years ago over and over again. I really like Grieva and Ru:natic... but i just wish they could create something I have never heard.
 
I can't agree with the notion of darker bands getting more exposure though... Most "darker" visual kei bands today re just sounding heavier but that doesn't mean they are edgier and gloomier. They just play "heavier" music (I know the term is pretty subjective and debatable itself). And yeah, they may have angsty lyrics. But heavy/hard/Metal/brutal/whatever music + angsty lyrics don't make a band dark. Hell, I would even agree when someone says that 80% of all gothic rock music is, in fact, not dark. Now it is really hard to define what makes a band truly dark, gloomy or melancholic... I think that's truly subjective. But I personally don't perceive most visual kei groups today to be dark. Especially not when we are talking about groups like Gazette, Mejibray or Versailles (especially the last... they are not edgy just because they wear frilly clothes and like vampire stories).
And the scene has many, several, melancholic or "darker" bands who don't get that much recognition. Like, I am still surprised how a group like emmurée who make such awesome post-punky music don't have that many fans and are heavily underrated. I'd say the same for 9GOATS BLACKOUT (though I don't really dig their stuff), cocklobin, Dish an others. I could say this for most visual and visual kei leaning bands who are coming from the Nagoya kei or Angura kei "scene". Those bands are also the ones that convince me, that visual kei isn't completely dead and that the scene can still serve some great bands. But the fans just don't care about them that much.
 
And I don't think bands are imitating old Nagoya kei á la Kuroyume either. Most bands are rather fascinated with Kiyoharu's later works or Dir en grey after their Vulgar era.
And weren't we all complaining just a few years ago, that the scene was overfilled with colourful, one dimensional oshare kei and "nyappi, everything is cool and the world is great" bands? Guess that hate for either colourful or dark bands change every new year...
And I am afraid visual kei was always full of pop rock bands. They sure are pretty one dimensional and sound like any other pop band, but it's not like the problem of softie visual rock was new. In the 90s there were many poppish bands as well. I'd even go as far to say soft visual was it's direct ancestor. I think visual kei already changed into a mass phenomenom that became a part of the fashion industry when the "genre" reached it's highest peak of popularity between 1993 and 1996. That was the time when once oh so punky, rebellish bands dropped their big hair and new wave facemask and changed into bright, casual clothes, normal hair and less make up (see Kuroyume, Shazna, L'arc~en~ciel). It seems you just can't survive or exist as a visual band without either changig into a pop group, doing the same shit until eternity or disbanding.
 
(okay, i'm gonna stop now or i will write the next deep analysis of visual kei culture...)

revive the thread with this nice post of Kyohei (showing him and Hisui back in the 90s/early 00s without make-up)
 
 
I really wonder how Hisui looks now…