Ikna

How ironic.
 
Excuse me if I sound harsh, because you seem young and like the kind of people who are used to their cozy social media "safe spaces" and haven't really experienced classic forum culture. But people having opinions you don't agree with is normal and I personally like that MH is one of the last places where people can share their thoughts, as controversial as they may be, without getting flamed, doxxed or "cancelled". It's a shame that you read this as "toxicity".
 
Also like suji said: the world isn't going to end just because someone says something on the web. And MH, while petty at times, is relatively well behaved corner of the net. Anyway, I probably don't add much here, since nowadays I am just a mere silent reader and rarely participate anymore. But I came back and saw that the forum discussions were revived and just wanted to say thanks, because it has been some time since this forum had interesting, engaging topics to offer. It would be silly if you leave the place just because you feel offended, but do what you wanna do.

It is okay to have strong female characters who kick ass and have large tits.

Madeth gray'll ;___;

Madeth gray'll ;___;

Madeth gray'll ;___;

People already have mentioned most of the important influental gothic rock and post-punk bands, but I am surprised nobody has mentioned any japanese ones yet. Groups like Madame Edwarda, Phaidia, Neurotic Doll and Sadie Sads had quite a similiar style to many of the post-punkish early visual kei groups of the early 90s, especially Nagoya kei groups like Silver~Rose, early ROUAGE or Gilles de Rais.
Makes sense, since this groups operated within the regions and venues were Visual kei groups later would form, so there was a direct influence.





Also compare Sadie Sads' Glas Bruch (I feel it has quite a strong proto Visual kei flair). G-Schmitt should be worth mentioned too and of course all the other underground gothic rock bands from Japan (ASYLUM, Sex Android, Geil). Some of them are technically considered oldschool visual kei, such as EX-Ans or VOISS.

Oh and: if you mention Bauhaus then you should not forget Siouxsie and the Banshees. Their influence on early visual kei is often overlooked, maybe because it's not all too obvious, but the Banshees were quite big in Japan (and Siouxsie herself was influenced by japanese fashion and culture). Siouxsie was your typical 80s goth prototype as a lot of (new) wavers, punks and new romantics aimed to look like her. Black backcomped hair, massive amounts of dark eyeshadow and red lipstick are her trademark – and you happen to see this exact look a lot in early Vk bands too. Inoran from Luna Sea almost looked like a male japanese version of her.




Big But: I'd rather put all of this bands in a seperate thread called "Influences/origins of visual kei". Because it's a bit weird to say that those groups remind me of visual kei, when it's rather that this groups influenced (among other bands from different genres) visual kei (so early Vkei reminds me of the old Punk and New Wave stuff and not the other way round). For me most of them are still post-punk groups. A thread about the history, influences and origins of visual kei (and how it shifted from Hard/Glam/Punk-Rock and New Wave inspired music into the weird style mix thing it is today) would be very interesting though! (especially since I only know about the wave and goth origins so i'd be interested to hear about the other influences).

When it comes to groups outside of the "has influnces Visual kei in soe way" spectrum... then I don't know any bands who remind me of Vk. Sure, a lot of goth, Hardrock, Nu-Metal, etc bands sounded similiar to the struff from the late 80s to 90s, but as said again: that's because those genres had a definite influence on Visual kei. I don't remember seeing so many other modern bands drawing influence from VK, let alone being similiar to it (without having the intention of being a VK band).
Some people would argue that groups like Black Veil Brides are reminding them of Visual kei because of their looks... I wonder if the band does even know about Visual kei's existence? (I don't know, I am not a fan of them). But I can see why people would have the idea that make-up heavy Metalcore (or Emo?) groups are VK, especially since the musical style became popular within the Visual kei scene in the recent years too.

There was even a time magazines tried to sell those finnish rock bands full of adrogynous men to sell as Visual Kei. And bands like Tokio Hotel... most of the time it#s just the look which is reminiscent (or comparable) to Visual kei, but that's it.

This project had such high potential when they were still a proper band. It fell kinda flat after Chaos' departure. Which wouldn't have been such an issue if they'd simply continued with their activity (loosing one vocalist is no tragedy when you have two), but it seems the rest of the band stopped caring pretty much as soon as he left and now after a long gap of no activity Kyouka is releasing these half assed songs… disappointing.

This project had such high potential when they were still a proper band. It fell kinda flat after Chaos' departure. Which wouldn't have been such an issue if they'd simply continued with their activity (loosing one vocalist is no tragedy when you have two), but it seems the rest of the band stopped caring pretty much as soon as he left and now after a long gap of no activity Kyouka is releasing these half assed songs… disappointing.

This project had such high potential when they were still a proper band. It fell kinda flat after Chaos' departure. Which wouldn't have been such an issue if they'd simply continued with their activity (loosing one vocalist is no tragedy when you have two), but it seems the rest of the band stopped caring pretty much as soon as he left and now after a long gap of no activity Kyouka is releasing these half assed songs… disappointing.

This project had such high potential when they were still a proper band. It fell kinda flat after Chaos' departure. Which wouldn't have been such an issue if they'd simply continued with their activity (loosing one vocalist is no tragedy when you have two), but it seems the rest of the band stopped caring pretty much as soon as he left and now after a long gap of no activity Kyouka is releasing these half assed songs… disappointing.

recently stumbled upon this rarez bando with an amazing name: UNRIPE PUSSY
CORPSE ANOTHER PERSON is pretty silly too.

recently stumbled upon this rarez bando with an amazing name: UNRIPE PUSSY
CORPSE ANOTHER PERSON is pretty silly too.

they made an official twitter which is making me get ahead of myself and hoping this is going to be more than one show
 
 

This young man needs to take that pacifier out immediately 

Must admit, I don't like this baby kei theme

I know I am going to open a big can of worms, but being active in the goth subculture for so many years and knowing people in the scene personally who have been part of this thing since the early 80s, I say the whole thing about gawf being a counter-culture misanthropic youth fashion trend is wrong and some cliché that the media came up with during the age of the Satanic Panic and ran with it.
 
It's been (and will always be) about the music and not so much the clothes or hating everyone (lol, most old wavers and goffs I know are so perky you'd think they are all untrve poseurs if you didn't knew any better). I know that's an argument many people do not like, because that means it takes more than heavy eyeliner and tacky shillstar clothes made in Bangladesh - such as actually liking some post-punk and goth music. And many people think they need that dreaded "G" label to prove how different they are from mainstream society and will fight tooth and nail that they "deserve" the label because of how they dress, which is something I don't get.

Also I have never met any of these people who wear 800 euros and more on their skin in the actual real life. These people primarily exist on the web, where they belong in the same bin with every other cancerous social media clown and influencer, or they walk around big festivals to get photographed (but never actually engage with anyone or pay attention to the music). I feel most of these "goff" people who are sponsor for some brand are just some regular alt chicks who realized that selling themselves as rebellious, edgy person makes them somehow different (and thus more authentic) than the hundred other people who do the same, but for some "normie" brand.  Then there are the few cases where people from the scene did become greedy and partake in this shit. But right now there is a nice backlash against it, so it#s not like everyone is okay with it. In fact, people have been arguing a long time that it#s not a fashion contest.
 
Most people at goth (and adjacent) events, club nights and concerts are piss poor or know to spend their money for more important things. If they wear that awful blunder then they usually buy it secondhand. And considering how the scene is slowly falling to gentrification, many don't even dress up anymore, and that's totally okay. It's only in web communities that people get so uptight and act like assholes. Which isn't so surprising, but that's also why I really recommend to get outside more and leave the internet for some time. Ever since I started to go out more again, meeting real people and reducing my online presence to a bare minimum, I have been much happier. 
 
Anyway, my stupid cents on this topic, since it seems to have made some big waves online. And I am glad it does. I think the same can and should be applied to any music scene, culture or just society in general; one doesn't need to worship some fucking brand to feel better about themselves and looks aren't everything. Sadly people give influencers way too much credit, even when they know that these people are paid by companies to sell their trash and will base their entire self worth on some criteria tailored by the folks that run good old capitalism. 

I know I am going to open a big can of worms, but being active in the goth subculture for so many years and knowing people in the scene personally who have been part of this thing since the early 80s, I say the whole thing about gawf being a counter-culture misanthropic youth fashion trend is wrong and some cliché that the media came up with during the age of the Satanic Panic and ran with it.
 
It's been (and will always be) about the music and not so much the clothes or hating everyone (lol, most old wavers and goffs I know are so perky you'd think they are all untrve poseurs if you didn't knew any better). I know that's an argument many people do not like, because that means it takes more than heavy eyeliner and tacky shillstar clothes made in Bangladesh - such as actually liking some post-punk and goth music. And many people think they need that dreaded "G" label to prove how different they are from mainstream society and will fight tooth and nail that they "deserve" the label because of how they dress, which is something I don't get.

Also I have never met any of these people who wear 800 euros and more on their skin in the actual real life. These people primarily exist on the web, where they belong in the same bin with every other cancerous social media clown and influencer, or they walk around big festivals to get photographed (but never actually engage with anyone or pay attention to the music). I feel most of these "goff" people who are sponsor for some brand are just some regular alt chicks who realized that selling themselves as rebellious, edgy person makes them somehow different (and thus more authentic) than the hundred other people who do the same, but for some "normie" brand.  Then there are the few cases where people from the scene did become greedy and partake in this shit. But right now there is a nice backlash against it, so it#s not like everyone is okay with it. In fact, people have been arguing a long time that it#s not a fashion contest.
 
Most people at goth (and adjacent) events, club nights and concerts are piss poor or know to spend their money for more important things. If they wear that awful blunder then they usually buy it secondhand. And considering how the scene is slowly falling to gentrification, many don't even dress up anymore, and that's totally okay. It's only in web communities that people get so uptight and act like assholes. Which isn't so surprising, but that's also why I really recommend to get outside more and leave the internet for some time. Ever since I started to go out more again, meeting real people and reducing my online presence to a bare minimum, I have been much happier. 
 
Anyway, my stupid cents on this topic, since it seems to have made some big waves online. And I am glad it does. I think the same can and should be applied to any music scene, culture or just society in general; one doesn't need to worship some fucking brand to feel better about themselves and looks aren't everything. Sadly people give influencers way too much credit, even when they know that these people are paid by companies to sell their trash and will base their entire self worth on some criteria tailored by the folks that run good old capitalism. 

I know I am going to open a big can of worms, but being active in the goth subculture for so many years and knowing people in the scene personally who have been part of this thing since the early 80s, I say the whole thing about gawf being a counter-culture misanthropic youth fashion trend is wrong and some cliché that the media came up with during the age of the Satanic Panic and ran with it.
 
It's been (and will always be) about the music and not so much the clothes or hating everyone (lol, most old wavers and goffs I know are so perky you'd think they are all untrve poseurs if you didn't knew any better). I know that's an argument many people do not like, because that means it takes more than heavy eyeliner and tacky shillstar clothes made in Bangladesh - such as actually liking some post-punk and goth music. And many people think they need that dreaded "G" label to prove how different they are from mainstream society and will fight tooth and nail that they "deserve" the label because of how they dress, which is something I don't get.

Also I have never met any of these people who wear 800 euros and more on their skin in the actual real life. These people primarily exist on the web, where they belong in the same bin with every other cancerous social media clown and influencer, or they walk around big festivals to get photographed (but never actually engage with anyone or pay attention to the music). I feel most of these "goff" people who are sponsor for some brand are just some regular alt chicks who realized that selling themselves as rebellious, edgy person makes them somehow different (and thus more authentic) than the hundred other people who do the same, but for some "normie" brand.  Then there are the few cases where people from the scene did become greedy and partake in this shit. But right now there is a nice backlash against it, so it#s not like everyone is okay with it. In fact, people have been arguing a long time that it#s not a fashion contest.
 
Most people at goth (and adjacent) events, club nights and concerts are piss poor or know to spend their money for more important things. If they wear that awful blunder then they usually buy it secondhand. And considering how the scene is slowly falling to gentrification, many don't even dress up anymore, and that's totally okay. It's only in web communities that people get so uptight and act like assholes. Which isn't so surprising, but that's also why I really recommend to get outside more and leave the internet for some time. Ever since I started to go out more again, meeting real people and reducing my online presence to a bare minimum, I have been much happier. 
 
Anyway, my stupid cents on this topic, since it seems to have made some big waves online. And I am glad it does. I think the same can and should be applied to any music scene, culture or just society in general; one doesn't need to worship some fucking brand to feel better about themselves and looks aren't everything. Sadly people give influencers way too much credit, even when they know that these people are paid by companies to sell their trash and will base their entire self worth on some criteria tailored by the folks that run good old capitalism. 

I know I am going to open a big can of worms, but being active in the goth subculture for so many years and knowing people in the scene personally who have been part of this thing since the early 80s, I say the whole thing about gawf being a counter-culture misanthropic youth fashion trend is wrong and some cliché that the media came up with during the age of the Satanic Panic and ran with it.
 
It's been (and will always be) about the music and not so much the clothes or hating everyone (lol, most old wavers and goffs I know are so perky you'd think they are all untrve poseurs if you didn't knew any better). I know that's an argument many people do not like, because that means it takes more than heavy eyeliner and tacky shillstar clothes made in Bangladesh - such as actually liking some post-punk and goth music. And many people think they need that dreaded "G" label to prove how different they are from mainstream society and will fight tooth and nail that they "deserve" the label because of how they dress, which is something I don't get.

Also I have never met any of these people who wear 800 euros and more on their skin in the actual real life. These people primarily exist on the web, where they belong in the same bin with every other cancerous social media clown and influencer, or they walk around big festivals to get photographed (but never actually engage with anyone or pay attention to the music). I feel most of these "goff" people who are sponsor for some brand are just some regular alt chicks who realized that selling themselves as rebellious, edgy person makes them somehow different (and thus more authentic) than the hundred other people who do the same, but for some "normie" brand.  Then there are the few cases where people from the scene did become greedy and partake in this shit. But right now there is a nice backlash against it, so it#s not like everyone is okay with it. In fact, people have been arguing a long time that it#s not a fashion contest.
 
Most people at goth (and adjacent) events, club nights and concerts are piss poor or know to spend their money for more important things. If they wear that awful blunder then they usually buy it secondhand. And considering how the scene is slowly falling to gentrification, many don't even dress up anymore, and that's totally okay. It's only in web communities that people get so uptight and act like assholes. Which isn't so surprising, but that's also why I really recommend to get outside more and leave the internet for some time. Ever since I started to go out more again, meeting real people and reducing my online presence to a bare minimum, I have been much happier. 
 
Anyway, my stupid cents on this topic, since it seems to have made some big waves online. And I am glad it does. I think the same can and should be applied to any music scene, culture or just society in general; one doesn't need to worship some fucking brand to feel better about themselves and looks aren't everything. Sadly people give influencers way too much credit, even when they know that these people are paid by companies to sell their trash and will base their entire self worth on some criteria tailored by the folks that run good old capitalism. 

tbh, I'd rather have their new album they announced aeons ago than this DVD… ;/

tbh, I'd rather have their new album they announced aeons ago than this DVD… ;/

I know I am going to open a big can of worms, but being active in the goth subculture for so many years and knowing people in the scene personally who have been part of this thing since the early 80s, I say the whole thing about gawf being a counter-culture misanthropic youth fashion trend is wrong and some cliché that the media came up with during the age of the Satanic Panic and ran with it.
 
It's been (and will always be) about the music and not so much the clothes or hating everyone (lol, most old wavers and goffs I know are so perky you'd think they are all untrve poseurs if you didn't knew any better). I know that's an argument many people do not like, because that means it takes more than heavy eyeliner and tacky shillstar clothes made in Bangladesh - such as actually liking some post-punk and goth music. And many people think they need that dreaded "G" label to prove how different they are from mainstream society and will fight tooth and nail that they "deserve" the label because of how they dress, which is something I don't get.

Also I have never met any of these people who wear 800 euros and more on their skin in the actual real life. These people primarily exist on the web, where they belong in the same bin with every other cancerous social media clown and influencer, or they walk around big festivals to get photographed (but never actually engage with anyone or pay attention to the music). I feel most of these "goff" people who are sponsor for some brand are just some regular alt chicks who realized that selling themselves as rebellious, edgy person makes them somehow different (and thus more authentic) than the hundred other people who do the same, but for some "normie" brand.  Then there are the few cases where people from the scene did become greedy and partake in this shit. But right now there is a nice backlash against it, so it#s not like everyone is okay with it. In fact, people have been arguing a long time that it#s not a fashion contest.
 
Most people at goth (and adjacent) events, club nights and concerts are piss poor or know to spend their money for more important things. If they wear that awful blunder then they usually buy it secondhand. And considering how the scene is slowly falling to gentrification, many don't even dress up anymore, and that's totally okay. It's only in web communities that people get so uptight and act like assholes. Which isn't so surprising, but that's also why I really recommend to get outside more and leave the internet for some time. Ever since I started to go out more again, meeting real people and reducing my online presence to a bare minimum, I have been much happier. 
 
Anyway, my stupid cents on this topic, since it seems to have made some big waves online. And I am glad it does. I think the same can and should be applied to any music scene, culture or just society in general; one doesn't need to worship some fucking brand to feel better about themselves and looks aren't everything. Sadly people give influencers way too much credit, even when they know that these people are paid by companies to sell their trash and will base their entire self worth on some criteria tailored by the folks that run good old capitalism. 

tbh, I'd rather have their new album they announced aeons ago than this DVD… ;/

I know I am going to open a big can of worms, but being active in the goth subculture for so many years and knowing people in the scene personally who have been part of this thing since the early 80s, I say the whole thing about gawf being a counter-culture misanthropic youth fashion trend is wrong and some cliché that the media came up with during the age of the Satanic Panic and ran with it.
 
It's been (and will always be) about the music and not so much the clothes or hating everyone (lol, most old wavers and goffs I know are so perky you'd think they are all untrve poseurs if you didn't knew any better). I know that's an argument many people do not like, because that means it takes more than heavy eyeliner and tacky shillstar clothes made in Bangladesh - such as actually liking some post-punk and goth music. And many people think they need that dreaded "G" label to prove how different they are from mainstream society and will fight tooth and nail that they "deserve" the label because of how they dress, which is something I don't get.

Also I have never met any of these people who wear 800 euros and more on their skin in the actual real life. These people primarily exist on the web, where they belong in the same bin with every other cancerous social media clown and influencer, or they walk around big festivals to get photographed (but never actually engage with anyone or pay attention to the music). I feel most of these "goff" people who are sponsor for some brand are just some regular alt chicks who realized that selling themselves as rebellious, edgy person makes them somehow different (and thus more authentic) than the hundred other people who do the same, but for some "normie" brand.  Then there are the few cases where people from the scene did become greedy and partake in this shit. But right now there is a nice backlash against it, so it#s not like everyone is okay with it. In fact, people have been arguing a long time that it#s not a fashion contest.
 
Most people at goth (and adjacent) events, club nights and concerts are piss poor or know to spend their money for more important things. If they wear that awful blunder then they usually buy it secondhand. And considering how the scene is slowly falling to gentrification, many don't even dress up anymore, and that's totally okay. It's only in web communities that people get so uptight and act like assholes. Which isn't so surprising, but that's also why I really recommend to get outside more and leave the internet for some time. Ever since I started to go out more again, meeting real people and reducing my online presence to a bare minimum, I have been much happier. 
 
Anyway, my stupid cents on this topic, since it seems to have made some big waves online. And I am glad it does. I think the same can and should be applied to any music scene, culture or just society in general; one doesn't need to worship some fucking brand to feel better about themselves and looks aren't everything. Sadly people give influencers way too much credit, even when they know that these people are paid by companies to sell their trash and will base their entire self worth on some criteria tailored by the folks that run good old capitalism. 

^to be fair, almost every 90s and early 00s VK bandomen had these sharpie brows, lmao.
 

 
It was a very 90s thing, as seen with Gwen Stefani. It was over the top and ridiculous and I love it.