chemicalpictures

I like it! we definitely need more aicle-kei on the scene!

I like it! we definitely need more aicle-kei on the scene!

Initally I was also guilty as charged of calling them ecks-trip, lol
 
but then they called themselves torippu in a video, so apparently it was just trip, the x being there just for a bit of confusion
 
I always fiercely hated 0801弐209XX6 name, but their sound was catchy as fuck, I firmly believe their bad taste in names heavily impairs any chance of them succeeding somehow...
 
CODE7203-KineSicS was also ASS.
 
But I do love me some period at the end of names/songs. First to come to mind is baroque's kei solo project. All the songs are written lowercase and have a period in the end. COOL AS FUCK.
 

Judging from the OP koteosa is basically what we simply called oshare kei back in the good ol' days of VK.

One of the small joys of being a VK fan is the unique phenomenon of enjoying a band while having absolutely no idea how to say their name. And I don’t mean because a band’s name is in Japanese, I’m talking those band names that are ostensibly written in English but because of weird characters or punctuation you just have no idea how to properly pronounce or verbalize their moniker correctly (although most of the time the pronunciation just completely ignores the extraneous symbols).
 
Let’s try and trace the history of these unnecessary symbols and letters in VK bands’ names and highlight the influence (or lack thereof) of these punctuation provocateurs.
 
 
D’erlanger

 
The band: One of the proto-visual kei bands that began in the ‘80s and had an outsize influence on the first generation of post-X visual bands.
 
The name: D’erlanger kinda makes sense as a French word, so they themselves are forgiven, but it is apparent a lot of teenagers in the 80s who would go on to become players in the golden age of visual kei saw that apostrophe and thought “oh cool!” for entirely unintended reasons.
 
I said D’erlanger makes sense as a French word… but it’s not a very ‘band name’ kind of word. Can’t imagine throwing up the metal horns to a band called ‘from Erlangen’.
 
See also: L’Arc~en~Ciel, La’Cryma Cristi, La’Mule
 
 
L’Arc~en~Ciel

 
The band: No introduction necessary really. Almost certainly on the Mount Rushmore of VK bands, whether or not you like what they’ve done since the start of the new millennium (and I don’t). Pretty and melodious songs with just enough edge to appeal to a wide swath of fans. Not to mention a sexy frontman.
 
The name: Another word that makes sense if you’re French, but L’Arc~en~Ciel up the ante by adding some tildes for no reason other than young Tetsuya and Hyde probably thought they added an even more magical feeling to the word ‘rainbow’.
 
L’Arc~en~Ciel’s (making their name possessive *does* add a certain balance to the word…) popularity in both VK circles and a mainstream audience meant that adding dumb punctuation in the middle of your name for no reason was now completely tolerated.
 
Tetsuya has specifically denied he got the L’Arc~en~Ciel moniker from a cafe near where he worked as a teenager with the same name. It may have also been stolen from the D.H. Lawrence book ‘Rainbow’, but even that story is tainted because it includes the *movie* version.
 
See also: a million song and album titles with tildes in them, E’m ~grief~
 
 
cali≠gari

 
The band: Either groundbreaking, experimental rock that revolutionized and kick-started the ‘eroguro kei’ genre, or dissonant-sounding weirdos; depending on your tastes.
 
The name: Obviously lifted from the groundbreaking German silent horror film “The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari”; an admittedly cool source of inspiration for an art-y VK band. The name even has a cool rhyme and visual symmetry when written/pronounced in Japanese (カリガリ).
 
See also: a ton of also-ran bands that have stuck unnecessary equals signs in their names: Loz'a≠Veria, D≒sire, Kar+te=zyAnose, Eyes≒Mirrorge, PARANOID≠CIRCUS
 
 
ZI:KILL

 
The band: Early VK rockers that burned out too quickly to be mentioned among the all-timers.
 
The name: Originally formed as G:KILL, which doesn’t shed any light onto the inspiration for the name, but is an interesting fact. G/Zi:Kill both *kinda* sound like Jekyll when katakan-ized, and Visual Kei has no lack of love for that story.
 
You may be noticing a trend so far; early VK bands apparently hated having blank spaces in their names.
 
See also: La:Sadie’s, ru:natic,【_Vani;lla】, ha;qch, DAS:VASSER, L'yse:nore
 
 
Aliene Maφriage

 
The band: One of the harbingers of VK starting to get really dark and almost certainly offending the middle-aged parents of the teenagers listening to it. Lots of leather and hair... and in Aliene’s case; some good songwriting to back it up.
 
The name: In the book Freakonomics the authors cite a study that shows, all other things being equal, people are more likely to be asked to interview for jobs if the interviewer/hiring manager can pronounce their name. I have to believe this is why even Kyoka & Co. started writing their name simply Aliene Ma’riage eventually; they were probably tired of having to pitch things to record label execs who looked at their name and thought “pass” before they even heard the banshee wails.
 
I couldn’t find anything about the origins of their name. It is a vast improvement over their original moniker Autism though.
 
See also: √eight, ∋elf gravity∈, ZETSURIN⚡HAGUKI
 
 
Kagrra,

 
The band: The undisputed kings of beautiful neo-japonisme in VK.
 
The name: Even Kagrra,, who peddled a very classic Japanese aesthetic, weren’t immune to an unnecessary flourish such as a comma at the end of their name which, when spoken, led to a kind of hesitant mumble as if you were supposed to continue a train of thought which was still at the station. I mean, revisit that previous sentence I wrote, should it really have been written “Even Kagrra,,”? Kagrra,’s name certainly gave the editing staff at Shoxx a headache.
 
Kagrra,, originally called Crow, took their name from 神楽 (Kagura), a Shinto music and dance tradition.
 
See also: Thankfully the comma didn’t catch on much.
 
 
+DéspairsRay+

 
The band: One of the rare examples of a band who can pull off unabashed zetsubou unironically and follow it up with soaring choruses and catchy melodies without sounding disjointed.
 
The name: Another band that dropped some of the more superfluous parts of their name as soon as they started to gain some popularity. If I had to guess, their name is probably one of the most mistagged in VK. I know for sure if I opened iTunes right now I’d have songs by +DéspairsRay+, DéspairsRay, D’espairs Ray, Despairs Ray and probably more in my artist lineup.
 
The members of the band haven’t commented specifically on how they chose the name, with Zero even saying “It's nothing special.” I interpret this as ‘we know it’s dumb, don’t ask about it please’.
 
See also: VAL+IX+LIA, MARRY+AN+BLOOD, Ti+Dee
 
 
Nuvc:gu

 
The band: Nobodies.
 
The name: I honestly was pronouncing this “nuv-ka-goo” until I heard @Biopanda say “New vogue” in a Rarezhut stream and the lightbulb went off. I almost want to give them credit for using the *shape* of punctuation to emulate letters, but then I realize that’s incredibly stupid unless you’re working with some seriously custom fonts.
 
See also: VΩID, k@mikaze, SHAD∞W, XOVER
 
 
Exist†trace

 
The band: Probably the most successful all-girl-kei band ever (which unfortunately isn’t saying much). Started out very gothy and have gradually transitioned to a more mainstream sound. They let the pretty one sing and it makes me sad because Jyou has come up with some flat out beautiful, haunting vocal melodies.
 
The name: Miko said in an interview that,
 
And let’s be honest, that explanation makes no sense. It sounds cool though, and really that’s what you need in a band name (and something unique that can be Googled).
 
My biggest problem with their cross symbol is that it probably shows up as a question mark or some other placeholder punctuation 20% of the time because who the hell has the time to look up the unicode symbols? (although I’m sure people who write about Witch-house bands have the code for the cross symbol memorized.)
 
See also: Serpentine†Ghost, Jail†Breaker, Vice†risk
 
 
xTripx

 
The band: A surprisingly endearing mix of oshare kei and numetal.
 
The name: Weirdly, I always pronounce the first ‘x’ in xTripx’s name but not the last one (ecks-trip). I actually think more bands need to come to terms with the fact that eventually the world will run out of new band names and everyone will have to resort to having a moniker that looks like a circa-2002 emo fan’s AIM screenname.
 
See also: xジハードx, 【TRiANGLE▼SONiX】, Noi’X
 
 
12012

 
The band: Undercode stalwarts that started out lo-fi and disjointed and nu-metal influenced but very charming, and graduated to poppier fare when they decided to take a stab at becoming famous.
 
The name: ‘Ichi ni zero ichi ni’ if you’re Japanese, ‘twelve-o’-twelve’ if you’re me. Allegedly named after a section of the California penal code that deals with illegal weapons… and that actually kind of tracks. It’s an extremely boring section though (besides we know Wataru prefers hand-to-hand combat):
 
 
Not a cool law for a band name. I think we’ve got a retconned term a la 420 and 311.
 
See also: Plenty of other band names that need a pronunciation guide:  0801弐209XX6* (zero hachi), …。(silence), 6→7 (upper)
 
*The guitarist of zero hachi should get an unnecessary punctuation in band names lifetime achievement award. He was in all these bands according to vkdb: †Zaide†,  Diod'honneur,  カレヰド, re:Make, 0801弐209XX6.
 
Be sure to add your favorite band name with unnecessary punctuation!

It's like he said "Hey, how can I make this sound like Miyavi but worse?"

To begin, we must pleeease understand that the correlation of piracy = loss of a sale is FALSE. People pirating releases ARE NOT making musicians lose money, period. If people hadn't shared, I don't know, batsu game's latest release, I would NOT buy it. I would simply go on without listening to it, because I don't care enough for them to go out of my way to buy a physical copy of something that would cost me 3 USD if it was an itunes release (btw the single sucks). This is true to 95% of the vk listeners, and has been widely discussed in sample pools much larger than a niche japanese music scene, like videogames for example. People buy what they like, period. If you do not let them at least try, why the hell should they buy your music?
 
That being said, people vastly, VASTLY overestimates the importance of western fandom to the scene. We are not the main target, we are not their main income source, the music isn't made for us. We are a plus in the scene, and every single release a westerner fan buys, it's an EXTRA income for the band. They are not counting with our money, people gotta understand that most of the bands simply don't care if we are listening to them or not, as long as their onemans are filled with japanese girls doing dance steps at their songs. Very few bands have the desire for more international exposure, and if that's the case, they sure have to adapt to our ways, as we are not obliged to accept their 90's thinking in the age of streaming. IF japanese fans started pirating instead of buying, THEN we would have a problem.
 
Music is dogs eating dogs everywhere in the world, why would be different for japanese boys in make up? Bands that are actually good, or at least are able to gather interest in their music will flourish, no matter what. People fail to understand that the scene is small because of it's characteristics, because boys dressing like girls and shredding guitars is niche and most importantly, it's foundation is what holds it back. No ammount of western pirates will make or break a band, period.
 
fun fact, UNiTE. shared most of their discography on Spotify, I don't know if it is restricted in japan (which would be a smart thing to do). Yeah they are bigger than most vk acts around, but that does show they are not following the outdated tunneled vision most bands are, and see us as what we are. Extra income, if they get to book a concert here and there, fine! If not, fine aswell, their focus is where it should be, their growth in Japan, without closing their doors to us, the outsiders.

I always thought ZON's Jellyfish was a hell of a song, really creative, until @JamesRpointed out how it was such a blatant copy of THE ORAL CIGARETTES's DIP-BAP:
 
 
 
I find it so funny how ZON had the balls to do such a rip-off in such a short time, like a few months after DIP-BAP release. I still love both songs, but If this isn't the proof that nobody cares about VK in japan, I don't know what is.

Glad to join the party again!
 
This time I'll also try to list the highlighted tracks on each release, which makes it easier to go back on albuns that are kinda meh but have redeeming tracks
 
 

To begin, we must pleeease understand that the correlation of piracy = loss of a sale is FALSE. People pirating releases ARE NOT making musicians lose money, period. If people hadn't shared, I don't know, batsu game's latest release, I would NOT buy it. I would simply go on without listening to it, because I don't care enough for them to go out of my way to buy a physical copy of something that would cost me 3 USD if it was an itunes release (btw the single sucks). This is true to 95% of the vk listeners, and has been widely discussed in sample pools much larger than a niche japanese music scene, like videogames for example. People buy what they like, period. If you do not let them at least try, why the hell should they buy your music?
 
That being said, people vastly, VASTLY overestimates the importance of western fandom to the scene. We are not the main target, we are not their main income source, the music isn't made for us. We are a plus in the scene, and every single release a westerner fan buys, it's an EXTRA income for the band. They are not counting with our money, people gotta understand that most of the bands simply don't care if we are listening to them or not, as long as their onemans are filled with japanese girls doing dance steps at their songs. Very few bands have the desire for more international exposure, and if that's the case, they sure have to adapt to our ways, as we are not obliged to accept their 90's thinking in the age of streaming. IF japanese fans started pirating instead of buying, THEN we would have a problem.
 
Music is dogs eating dogs everywhere in the world, why would be different for japanese boys in make up? Bands that are actually good, or at least are able to gather interest in their music will flourish, no matter what. People fail to understand that the scene is small because of it's characteristics, because boys dressing like girls and shredding guitars is niche and most importantly, it's foundation is what holds it back. No ammount of western pirates will make or break a band, period.
 
fun fact, UNiTE. shared most of their discography on Spotify, I don't know if it is restricted in japan (which would be a smart thing to do). Yeah they are bigger than most vk acts around, but that does show they are not following the outdated tunneled vision most bands are, and see us as what we are. Extra income, if they get to book a concert here and there, fine! If not, fine aswell, their focus is where it should be, their growth in Japan, without closing their doors to us, the outsiders.

clearly, they have the potential to influence other bands...how funny you are

i re-translated those two lines. don't know if there's much of a wordplay but seems to make more sense now.

@chemicalpicturesah, yeah i sorta figured that it'd be the name of live houses or something! thanks for telling me~
yeah, i felt this song was written strongly for the fans and the memories of xtripx altogether. ;u;

Heyy @plastic_rainbow amazing as always!
 
(Drum) SON, BE-1, LOGOS and AREA are all livehouses they used to play, forgot to mention that! it's just one of Yoshito's wordplays, but maybe they make some other sense when reading with that in mind!
 
I think this one is about the hiatus, the loss of will to go on, their talks of coming back, the way they still had passion for the band, but bigger than that, they did it for their fans.
 
Regarding the lyrics, it sure looks like Yoshito found some new strength to keep moving forward with xTRiPx, that the hiatus was conforting at first, but he missed the stage and wished to come back.
 
"You wished for it, didn't you? Even before, you knew all along from the depths of your heart
A love connected to you, we'll go beyond our desires" - I may be wrong, but I think he was talking to the fans. How we somehow knew they would've come back someday from that hiatus...
 
GOD I miss those guys...
 

Lyrics: Yoshito
Music: xTRiPx
Kanji source: peffy
 
English:
my verse... 10years ago I didn't know anything
I remember now, the joy of singing
I wish to erase your sadness with this song
the song for you

10 years...time is just streaming frantically
It's not easy to pierce through an unchanging faithful sound
Before we realized it, our meeting came and went
All things without fail become meaningful
Constructing the present

Everyday is complicated as always, worth a piece
Let's share tomorrow and our friends we meet together
Always facing forward, we overlooked the things we cherished
No more mistakes, I decided

change da words change da mind
change da past I decided
change da lie change da cry

any verse, I just want some worthless freedom
And head towards tomorrow without looking back
Words looking for answers, piled up anxiety, extinguishable courage
You knew, didn't you? Those feelings that were smoldering in the depths of our hearts
Signs of connecting with you, will our voices reach you?

The pleasant stop of flow I felt was a temporary delusion
What would the current me say to the me who ran away?
They say it'll bloom in the sunshine, I promised the eternal lily of the future
Gliding everyday to the unwavering and rising desire

any verse, I am blessed again with this dull freedom
Join me without flapping your wings
Words looking for answers, piled up anxiety, extinguishable courage
You wished for it, didn't you? Even before, you knew all along from the depths of your heart
A love connected to you, we'll go beyond our desires

Standing up for the first time at SON, we painted a vast dream [1]
I embraced those times the same as always
With No limit, I'll infuse these Lyrics as they fall loose
The meaning that points ahead
On top of Be-1 logos and AREA where we climbed up [1]
The heartbeats of our many friends are still live and beating

my verse... 10years ago I didn't know anything
I remember now, the joy of singing
I wish to erase your sadness with this song
the song for you

any verse, I just want some worthless freedom
And head towards tomorrow without looking back
Words looking for answers, piled up anxiety, extinguishable courage
You knew, didn't you? Those feelings that were smoldering in the depths of our hearts
Signs of connecting with you, our voices will reach you

-----------------------
Notes:
[1] SON, Be-1 logos, and AREA all refer to the names of live houses they performed at.
 
Translated by me, enjoy! ^^

Same old FED, the worst mastering on the scene. Even the drums sound like a programmed machine, jesus lord

Love the nods to Cube, one of my fave sci-fi horror movies ever!
 
 
other than that, ain't much for my tastes, I'm afraid. Maybe it will grow as Kawazu did, but I don't think so...

yeah you guys are right, way too beautiful deformity/toxic era for my tastes. and the chorus is bland, borderline annoying.
 
I WANT MORE DOGMA-LIKE EDGELORD GAZETTE

yeah you guys are right, way too beautiful deformity/toxic era for my tastes. and the chorus is bland, borderline annoying.
 
I WANT MORE DOGMA-LIKE EDGELORD GAZETTE

To begin, we must pleeease understand that the correlation of piracy = loss of a sale is FALSE. People pirating releases ARE NOT making musicians lose money, period. If people hadn't shared, I don't know, batsu game's latest release, I would NOT buy it. I would simply go on without listening to it, because I don't care enough for them to go out of my way to buy a physical copy of something that would cost me 3 USD if it was an itunes release (btw the single sucks). This is true to 95% of the vk listeners, and has been widely discussed in sample pools much larger than a niche japanese music scene, like videogames for example. People buy what they like, period. If you do not let them at least try, why the hell should they buy your music?
 
That being said, people vastly, VASTLY overestimates the importance of western fandom to the scene. We are not the main target, we are not their main income source, the music isn't made for us. We are a plus in the scene, and every single release a westerner fan buys, it's an EXTRA income for the band. They are not counting with our money, people gotta understand that most of the bands simply don't care if we are listening to them or not, as long as their onemans are filled with japanese girls doing dance steps at their songs. Very few bands have the desire for more international exposure, and if that's the case, they sure have to adapt to our ways, as we are not obliged to accept their 90's thinking in the age of streaming. IF japanese fans started pirating instead of buying, THEN we would have a problem.
 
Music is dogs eating dogs everywhere in the world, why would be different for japanese boys in make up? Bands that are actually good, or at least are able to gather interest in their music will flourish, no matter what. People fail to understand that the scene is small because of it's characteristics, because boys dressing like girls and shredding guitars is niche and most importantly, it's foundation is what holds it back. No ammount of western pirates will make or break a band, period.
 
fun fact, UNiTE. shared most of their discography on Spotify, I don't know if it is restricted in japan (which would be a smart thing to do). Yeah they are bigger than most vk acts around, but that does show they are not following the outdated tunneled vision most bands are, and see us as what we are. Extra income, if they get to book a concert here and there, fine! If not, fine aswell, their focus is where it should be, their growth in Japan, without closing their doors to us, the outsiders.

stop embarrassing yourselves and have a normal conversation

MH is dead

To begin, we must pleeease understand that the correlation of piracy = loss of a sale is FALSE. People pirating releases ARE NOT making musicians lose money, period. If people hadn't shared, I don't know, batsu game's latest release, I would NOT buy it. I would simply go on without listening to it, because I don't care enough for them to go out of my way to buy a physical copy of something that would cost me 3 USD if it was an itunes release (btw the single sucks). This is true to 95% of the vk listeners, and has been widely discussed in sample pools much larger than a niche japanese music scene, like videogames for example. People buy what they like, period. If you do not let them at least try, why the hell should they buy your music?
 
That being said, people vastly, VASTLY overestimates the importance of western fandom to the scene. We are not the main target, we are not their main income source, the music isn't made for us. We are a plus in the scene, and every single release a westerner fan buys, it's an EXTRA income for the band. They are not counting with our money, people gotta understand that most of the bands simply don't care if we are listening to them or not, as long as their onemans are filled with japanese girls doing dance steps at their songs. Very few bands have the desire for more international exposure, and if that's the case, they sure have to adapt to our ways, as we are not obliged to accept their 90's thinking in the age of streaming. IF japanese fans started pirating instead of buying, THEN we would have a problem.
 
Music is dogs eating dogs everywhere in the world, why would be different for japanese boys in make up? Bands that are actually good, or at least are able to gather interest in their music will flourish, no matter what. People fail to understand that the scene is small because of it's characteristics, because boys dressing like girls and shredding guitars is niche and most importantly, it's foundation is what holds it back. No ammount of western pirates will make or break a band, period.
 
fun fact, UNiTE. shared most of their discography on Spotify, I don't know if it is restricted in japan (which would be a smart thing to do). Yeah they are bigger than most vk acts around, but that does show they are not following the outdated tunneled vision most bands are, and see us as what we are. Extra income, if they get to book a concert here and there, fine! If not, fine aswell, their focus is where it should be, their growth in Japan, without closing their doors to us, the outsiders.

To begin, we must pleeease understand that the correlation of piracy = loss of a sale is FALSE. People pirating releases ARE NOT making musicians lose money, period. If people hadn't shared, I don't know, batsu game's latest release, I would NOT buy it. I would simply go on without listening to it, because I don't care enough for them to go out of my way to buy a physical copy of something that would cost me 3 USD if it was an itunes release (btw the single sucks). This is true to 95% of the vk listeners, and has been widely discussed in sample pools much larger than a niche japanese music scene, like videogames for example. People buy what they like, period. If you do not let them at least try, why the hell should they buy your music?
 
That being said, people vastly, VASTLY overestimates the importance of western fandom to the scene. We are not the main target, we are not their main income source, the music isn't made for us. We are a plus in the scene, and every single release a westerner fan buys, it's an EXTRA income for the band. They are not counting with our money, people gotta understand that most of the bands simply don't care if we are listening to them or not, as long as their onemans are filled with japanese girls doing dance steps at their songs. Very few bands have the desire for more international exposure, and if that's the case, they sure have to adapt to our ways, as we are not obliged to accept their 90's thinking in the age of streaming. IF japanese fans started pirating instead of buying, THEN we would have a problem.
 
Music is dogs eating dogs everywhere in the world, why would be different for japanese boys in make up? Bands that are actually good, or at least are able to gather interest in their music will flourish, no matter what. People fail to understand that the scene is small because of it's characteristics, because boys dressing like girls and shredding guitars is niche and most importantly, it's foundation is what holds it back. No ammount of western pirates will make or break a band, period.
 
fun fact, UNiTE. shared most of their discography on Spotify, I don't know if it is restricted in japan (which would be a smart thing to do). Yeah they are bigger than most vk acts around, but that does show they are not following the outdated tunneled vision most bands are, and see us as what we are. Extra income, if they get to book a concert here and there, fine! If not, fine aswell, their focus is where it should be, their growth in Japan, without closing their doors to us, the outsiders.

To begin, we must pleeease understand that the correlation of piracy = loss of a sale is FALSE. People pirating releases ARE NOT making musicians lose money, period. If people hadn't shared, I don't know, batsu game's latest release, I would NOT buy it. I would simply go on without listening to it, because I don't care enough for them to go out of my way to buy a physical copy of something that would cost me 3 USD if it was an itunes release (btw the single sucks). This is true to 95% of the vk listeners, and has been widely discussed in sample pools much larger than a niche japanese music scene, like videogames for example. People buy what they like, period. If you do not let them at least try, why the hell should they buy your music?
 
That being said, people vastly, VASTLY overestimates the importance of western fandom to the scene. We are not the main target, we are not their main income source, the music isn't made for us. We are a plus in the scene, and every single release a westerner fan buys, it's an EXTRA income for the band. They are not counting with our money, people gotta understand that most of the bands simply don't care if we are listening to them or not, as long as their onemans are filled with japanese girls doing dance steps at their songs. Very few bands have the desire for more international exposure, and if that's the case, they sure have to adapt to our ways, as we are not obliged to accept their 90's thinking in the age of streaming. IF japanese fans started pirating instead of buying, THEN we would have a problem.
 
Music is dogs eating dogs everywhere in the world, why would be different for japanese boys in make up? Bands that are actually good, or at least are able to gather interest in their music will flourish, no matter what. People fail to understand that the scene is small because of it's characteristics, because boys dressing like girls and shredding guitars is niche and most importantly, it's foundation is what holds it back. No ammount of western pirates will make or break a band, period.
 
fun fact, UNiTE. shared most of their discography on Spotify, I don't know if it is restricted in japan (which would be a smart thing to do). Yeah they are bigger than most vk acts around, but that does show they are not following the outdated tunneled vision most bands are, and see us as what we are. Extra income, if they get to book a concert here and there, fine! If not, fine aswell, their focus is where it should be, their growth in Japan, without closing their doors to us, the outsiders.