Should digital releases be uploaded?

[Nighttime Jae 238]

So, me and another user have been talking about this issue.

 

Lately, more and more visual kei bands have been putting their music on streaming platforms, usually at  a very low price. But still, some find a way to upload them to YouTube and other places.

 

Personally, I don't think it's doing anyone a favor. There has always been talk about how vk bands don't take advantage of more modern ways to share their music, how they're only pandering to the Japanese audience and don't care about making their releases available for the overseas public. But lately  I feel that the trend is changing, so I think we should support them buying their music legally instead of uploading their stuff and sharing it.

 

I could see why people would do it when the releases are hard to get, maybe live-exclusives, but when it comes to these recent active bands that are willing to use other means to let their music known, I think that it may just discourage them from doing it in the future (and back to the old ways we go lol)

 

What are your thoughts on the matter?

Edited March 31, 2020 by Nighttime Jae

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

It's a grey area for me. On the one hand, it's way easier to chuck $2.58 at a single on iTunes than it is to spend $30 to have it physically imported from CDJ. But at the same time, sometimes record deals fall through or the band splits and then their material is gone from streaming services. 

 

For example, GE+IM's digital single is now gone, and all of UnsraW's materially used to be streamable, but that got removed a few months ago.

 

Unfortunately, being available digitally comes with an asterisk that says *(for now)

[Nighttime Jae 238]

Just now, Peace Heavy mk II said:

It's a grey area for me. On the one hand, it's way easier to chuck $2.58 at a single on iTunes than it is to spend $30 to have it physically imported from CDJ. But at the same time, sometimes record deals fall through or the band splits and then their material is gone from streaming services. 

 

For example, GE+IM's digital single is now gone, and all of UnsraW's materially used to be streamable, but that got removed a few months ago.

 

Unfortunately, being available digitally comes with an asterisk that says *(for now)

That's a really good point you made there, thank you for the insight! I may add an "Undecided" option to the poll then^^

[Tokage 5930]

Yes. Online sales platforms/streaming platforms so far have historically been unreliable as hell as Peace also already mentioned. Stuff might just be there one day and suddenly be gone the next for one reason or another. Plus there's also still the retarded practice of arbitrary region locking which we should really have moved past at this point. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Tokage

[BrenGun 2261]

I agree with this.

 

I also think if we want to gain more trust and respect from visual kei bands but also from their fans is to not act as a "shit" "I dont' care" gaijin.

 

Digital music isn't that expensive to buy via various platforms. 

We can listen to it freely via spotify (in most cases)

And some of us even have a subscription to google music, apple music or spotify premium.

 

 

But I only agree for the uploads which are also on spotify.

Releases which aren't on spotify are to me still "difficult to get".  because you don't have the legal opportunity to check it out freely for free first. 

 

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

What I think is super weird is that really really indie bands embrace streaming, big-time bands are just starting to embrace it (thanks to L'arc starting that trend), but mid-tier or big in the indies scene labels completely refuse? Like, why are Loop Ash, Plug, PSC, or Speed-disk's catalogs not available? It's so weird.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Peace Heavy mk II

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

I honestly don't know what there is to gain by white knighting some high school dropouts rockstar dreams in the year 2020. The world is in lockdown, the polar caps are melting; I think if you're making art for profit in this age then you can fuck the right off and get a real job, even if it's visual kei where half of the appeal of this niche comes from the weird economy that sustains it. 

 

 

[Tokage 5930]

btw i sure as hell hope that everyone preaching the gospel of ''dude you gotta support my anime boys!'' has never ever bought any second-hand cds or downloaded any releases themselves because that would be extremely hypocritical and embarrassing for everyone👀

[Nighttime Jae 238]

38 minutes ago, Disposable said:

I honestly don't know what there is to gain by white knighting some high school dropouts rockstar dreams in the year 2020. The world is in lockdown, the polar caps are melting; I think if you're making art for profit in this age then you can fuck the right off and get a real job, even if it's visual kei where half of the appeal of this niche comes from the weird economy that sustains it. 

 

 

Ever considered that maybe not every bandoman is a high school dropout without a real job on the side? Just saying.

 

 

35 minutes ago, Tokage said:

btw i sure as hell hope that everyone preaching the gospel of ''dude you gotta support my anime boys!'' has never ever bought any second-hand cds or downloaded any releases themselves because that would be extremely hypocritical and embarrassing for everyone👀

How would it be hypocritical? I am talking exclusively about digital releases, I straight up said I condone it when it comes to physical releases?

Edited March 31, 2020 by Nighttime Jae

[BrenGun 2261]

18 minutes ago, Peace Heavy mk II said:

What I think is super weird is that really really indie bands embrace streaming, big-time bands are just starting to embrace it (thanks to L'arc starting that trend), but mid-tier or big in the indies scene labels completely refuse? Like, why are Loop Ash, Plug, PSC, or Speed-disk's catalogs not available? It's so weird.

They surely have some reasons and you can guess one of those reasons. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Tokage said:

btw i sure as hell hope that everyone preaching the gospel of ''dude you gotta support my anime boys!'' has never ever bought any second-hand cds or downloaded any releases themselves because that would be extremely hypocritical and embarrassing for everyone👀

Well if you buy second-hand because you cannot buy an original copy anymore it does no harm. And we also know that buying from Japan still can cost more than buying it from someone second handed, but that doesn't mean that everyone wouldn't download a release a all on the legal way. But yes, if you never would have supported a band by buying a CD and actually not willing to buy a release digitally then it's hypocritical.

 

 

 

[Delkmiroph 1649]

Digital releases no. 

 

I decided since last year to dont share nothing when comes available on iTunes worldwide. in case of Plastic tree new album, was available to all world. 

 

Cmon today u can buy a gift card online by itunes japan or other type and pre order or buy it. 

 

Ex: The new album of pura cost $8.99... REALLY GUYS, is it expensive to buy it ? 

[Nighttime Jae 238]

Just now, BrenGun said:

 

Well if you buy second-hand because you cannot buy an original copy anymore it does no harm. And we also know that buying from Japan still can cost more than buying it from someone second handed, but that doesn't mean that everyone wouldn't download a release a all on the legal way. But yes, if you never would have supported a band by buying a CD and actually not willing to buy a release digitally then it's hypocritical.

 

 

 

^This.

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

6 minutes ago, Nighttime Jae said:

Ever considered that maybe not every bandoman is a high school dropout without a real job on the side? Just saying.

 

Then the majority of their income comes from their job as a physics professor or as a host, I reckon. 

 

This horse has been beaten to death on this forum. When children are starving and people are being droned and shot all over the world with the compliance or the guns of the governments most of us belong to, then even considering to pose downloading music as an ethical question is stupid and embarrassing. There's no reason for anyone here to care, those who download will dl and those who won't won't. I stream bands on spotify when they are there, I bought Anfiel's second album digital because i liked them back then, I wouldn't pay a buck for david if it's able for purchase online because I think they suck, but I'll still dl it to know what it's about — everyone else will continue to do more or less the same unless they have a mental disorder where they live vicariously through their fave bandmen. 

[Nighttime Jae 238]

22 minutes ago, Disposable said:

Then the majority of their income comes from their job as a physics professor or as a host, I reckon. 

 

This horse has been beaten to death on this forum. When children are starving and people are being droned and shot all over the world with the compliance or the guns of the governments most of us belong to, then even considering to pose downloading music as an ethical question is stupid and embarrassing. There's no reason for anyone here to care, those who download will dl and those who won't won't. I stream bands on spotify when they are there, I bought Anfiel's second album digital because i liked them back then, I wouldn't pay a buck for david if it's able for purchase online because I think they suck, but I'll still dl it to know what it's about — everyone else will continue to do more or less the same unless they have a mental disorder where they live vicariously through their fave bandmen. 

Tell that to Yuu (ex-Zodia and a bunch of other bands) and his master's degree in mechanical engineering. The whole "high school dropouts that live off their mitsus" stereotype is so outdated. Most indies in this day and age have an education and have day jobs to support themselves, otherwise with what they're making they'd be begging on the streets.

 

You guys really can't help yourselves from being judgemental and sassy for no reason huh?

 

Of course everyone is free to do whatever, uploading and downloading definitely won't stop, but I just wanted to reflect on how this affects the scene, especially for the western fanbase.

 

This may be beating a dead horse for your, but I haven't seen a topic for discussing this, so might as well hearing everyone's opinion in just one place.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Nighttime Jae

[Delkmiroph 1649]

17 minutes ago, Disposable said:

Then the majority of their income comes from their job as a physics professor or as a host, I reckon. 

 

This horse has been beaten to death on this forum. When children are starving and people are being droned and shot all over the world with the compliance or the guns of the governments most of us belong to, then even considering to pose downloading music as an ethical question is stupid and embarrassing. There's no reason for anyone here to care, those who download will dl and those who won't won't. I stream bands on spotify when they are there, I bought Anfiel's second album digital because i liked them back then, I wouldn't pay a buck for david if it's able for purchase online because I think they suck, but I'll still dl it to know what it's about — everyone else will continue to do more or less the same unless they have a mental disorder where they live vicariously through their fave bandmen. 

 

Nice point... When u download something that your are not the owner... U are taking out money from many people that work on that album /production / marketing...

 

and the artist is working hard to get some money to keep alive. (Because today is sucks become a singer or any kind of art)

 

CDs cannot cover themselves and put in the box alone, and people workng in postal services, local taxes... (Capitalism that u consume too)

 

I could explain  how works this big system, but u guess u are smart enough to understand.

 

Its so selfish your quote. Please think out of the box about that.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Delkmiroph

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

Well I understand that people might not browse this forum religiously like I do ( lol ) and the search engine does suck so you might never now if a topic has been gone through many times or not. This topic however has been discussed many times and the forum policy is that it'll stay as it is, because there's just no ethically consistent way to deal with MH PREMIUM MEMBER section other than either to kill it entirely and or keep at is it, as the latter is, in my opinion, the obvious answer here. Not mention about the labour this will bring on the mods when they'd have to go around culling shit that's available on multiple different platforms from purchase to streaming on spotify.  

 

And to Delkmiroph, I don't care about any rockstar tryhard's band career. There are tons of musicians on this earth making music non profit and with very sparse touring and releasing schedules. It is only vk that is so obsessed with this collector and band white knighting attitude. 

[secret_no_03 959]

If you really like an artist and you deem them good enough to spend money on, then do so, but if you don't, don't. Plus, you could always just buy live DVDs.

[Delkmiroph 1649]

3 minutes ago, Disposable said:

And to Delkmiroph, I don't care about any rockstar tryhard's band career. There are tons of musicians on this earth making music non profit and with very sparse touring and releasing schedules. It is only vk that is so obsessed with this collector and band white knighting attitude. 

 

Well, then i am right about your selfishness. Could be wonderful if your comment is compatible with the reality in which we live. But unfortunately no. 

 

Its seems that only rich countries exist in your earth or in your world to artists "making music non profit and with very sparse touring and releasing schedules"

 

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

3 minutes ago, Delkmiroph said:

Its seems that only rich countries exist in your earth or in your world to artists "making music non profit and with very sparse touring and releasing schedules"

 

I don't mean to fight, but people do this all over the world. Just not in the music you listen to, mate

[ChaoticEnding 2070]

1 hour ago, BrenGun said:

Digital music isn't that expensive to buy via various platforms. 

 

3rd world reading this

[Delkmiroph 1649]

9 minutes ago, Disposable said:

I don't mean to fight, but people do this all over the world. Just not in the music you listen to, mate

 

I am not fighting against u. I am trying to show what the sh**t that we do and we just ignore the consequences.  In the end the the artist will be harmed and everyone around. 

 

And i dont understand why the mods from this forum gave to you a tilte "Iconic member" if u said that u dont care about the artists. 

 

MH is a forum to support the artist and music (?) . I expected that the members do the same or at least the old ones....

Edited March 31, 2020 by Delkmiroph

[Delkmiroph 1649]

2 minutes ago, ChaoticEnding said:

 

3rd world reading this

 

 

Thats why the streaming service is getting strength to stop illegal download. 

[Nighttime Jae 238]

1 minute ago, Delkmiroph said:

 

 

MH is a forum to support the artist and music. I expected that the members do the same....

From my experience it's more like bringing news, shitting on indie newcomers, sass each other out and downloading stuff, so...

[Emiliendollars 12]

If you can easily get the music in a legal way, then I don't really see the point of downloading it illegally. It will only hurt the musicians. 

[Karma’s Hat 3107]

5 minutes ago, Delkmiroph said:

MH is a forum to support the artist and music. I expected that the members do the same....

the forum is living off of its premium member section bro. otherwise it could've been dead already. 

 

I understand where you are coming from because your frame of reference is inherently mainstream pop and rock oriented. There is more music than we could even listen to in our lifetimes that is made non-profit, strictly for the communities they're coming from. There are bands that are even legendary only touring occasionally even if they're not political. I'm opposed to capitalism, I'm opposed to sales. This is just my opinion, but I don't support the economical model of visual kei even though I love its music and history, so I also don't care if it dies out because its economical model was made redundant by the 21st century. If it can adapt to the streaming model then god bless. 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Disposable