When does an artist become a rip off of another artist?

[psychonnect_rozen 585]

For example, everyone says bands like Grieva or The Gazette rip off Diru. So that begs the question:

 

What does it mean when an artist rips off someone? Mainly in the Visual Kei scene

Edited May 25, 2019 by psychonnect_rozen

[suji 8317]

when they intentionally copy the other band's music and visuals

[sleepy coffee 1476]

dont think its means anything in the visual kei scene, the only people who get upset at "ripoff" bands are western fans and we dont really matter to them 

[Gesu 1537]

I guess the most straightforward description would be when something sounds exactly like something else. It can't just be inspired by it, because if that were the case, then every rock band would be ripping off the one before it. Every pop band would be ripping off the one before it. Every jazz band, yada yada. A good example would be GREED's new song ripping off one of DIAURA's from their latest album (here's the thread in case you were curious, I commented about them ripping off DIAURA and I'm still fuming).

 

To make my point clearer, compare these two:

 

 

 

Yeah, okay, so they're both jazzy (and awesome), roughly the same length and they even have the same (awesome) guitarist, but Barairo No Jigoku is hardly a ripoff of Antlion (I'm not actually sure if it'd even count as a ripoff if one of the members was the same, but you get my point).

[secret_no_03 959]

I've seen at least a few people having the streaks on the neck like Ruki has the past year or so. It's always amusing to see how these new musicians show their admiration for a band wedged between the beginning and the current Era's of VK; argued by many as the Golden Age of Visual Kei.

[Doesn'tEvenGoHere 121]

1 hour ago, secret_no_03 said:

I've seen at least a few people having the streaks on the neck like Ruki has the past year or so. It's always amusing to see how these new musicians show their admiration for a band wedged between the beginning and the current Era's of VK; argued by many as the Golden Age of Visual Kei.

I have no citations for this because I really don't care, but I've seen people get into arguments about this who say this isn't Ruki's thing and that a good number of others did it before him. 

[Himeaimichu 1535]

I don't even bother with caring if a band is a rip off anymore. It just seems like the kind of thing 14 year old girls complain about, and within music, almost everything has been a rip off.

Plus, with the rise of tribute-kei, ripping off has become more closer to what we'd call sampling in Hip Hop. We know it's from somewhere else and they want us to know too. It's actually fun to find out what riffs they sampled and how they implemented it, as they often change it up. It's still enjoyable music, it still takes skill to play, don't worry about it too much. 

I mean, Ruki didn't invent the neck stripes all on his own (anyone remember Yuuga from Devil Kitty and Saki from Cuartet?) And ripped off looks from other artists. Also, it seems petty imo to complain about copying looks.  I see a lot of fans who always complain when another vocalist has neck stripes, and I'm pretty sure none of them remember when The GazettE had more Japanesque themes and Ruki was trying to sound like Daisuke from Kagerou and were signed to the label of the dude from La'Miss Fairy lol. It just seems petty to complain about. Like, so what if I wear neck stripes and dreads? I'm not copying Ruki, I'm copying Saki from Cuartet. Get it damn right (JK lmao)

 

Basically, don't worry too much about it. Like whatever you want, everything is a rip off of something and no one is completely original. As long as you're not like claiming the entire piece as your own original creation and let people know your sampling, at least. (Or in the case of 90% of Tribute Kei, its implied that there will be ripping off lol) I do believe copyright infringement is a thing, and I've definitely seen some examples of full on ripping off, but when it comes to Visual Kei, the topic is more nuanced than a lot of more prude, puritan fans will realise. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Himeaimichu

[Masato 365]

A rip off is when you copy another bands costume, part of their tunes and declare it a parody  of ○○○-sama. 😏 Can still be lots of fun though!

 

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Masato

[Bear 1817]

This is a hard one IMO. I don't know how it is in the VK scene, but in metal and punk  and so on its not unsual at all to "steal" music, from just a riff to almost entire songs, or hell, even a bands complete sound, just to pay tribute to artists and bands. And they're not considered rip off at all. But I think it has to do with how it's done, how open the bands are about their influences and so on. But it's hard to draw the line where a band goes from a rip off to a tribute band, and vice versa.

 

 

And while I have enver read an interview with Grieva, I just don't consider them a rip off. To me they come off as an original tribute band (along the lines of Disclose, Warhammer and so on). Where their only mission is to recreate something great that was lost as time went on. But what do I know?

 

Warhammer spent years and years to hunt down the right equipment so that they could re-create the guitar tone, bass sound and drum sound of Hellhammer. Their covers could also have been Hellhammer cover. But they're never considered a rip off, but an original tribute band. And i think this comes down to how open they are about it. They just want to continue what Hellhammer started.

 

Same with Japanese d-beaters Disclose. Everything about their releases are Discharge influenced. Only fuzzier, nastier and wilder sounding. But again they're a band that were opena bout paying their tributes to their favourite band.

 

And I honestly feel like this is the case with a band like Grieva, but as I have never read an interview with them I don't really know.